eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Hey guys, I still don't get how close control and dribbling work separately in this demo
they removed R2+left stick to perform close control
now the only way to do something similar to close control is left stick+right stick (tell me if I was wrong)
but it is also how you perform finesse dribble to past the defender
and I also found that now left stick+right stick could not perform close control as smooth as R2+left stick in the past
I think R2+left stick was a good combination, it was clear that if I only want to perform close control I use R2+left stick and if I only want to perform dribbling skill I use left stick+right stick
now I just can't separate close control and dribbling skill
 
DuduBR9 said:
Sorry to quote myself, but I feel a bit frustrated with the overall opinion here as they do not represent what I am experience and what I should think the game should play

I hardly ser any fouls online and players close You down extremely quickly, wich is nothing like Pes 2018 beta, a game that should bê a reference on this regard
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I have had loads of fouls online so far but very rarely give any away which I attribute to controlling my defenders myself when I get them in close.

But plenty of fouls and free kicks for me online so far. As for closing down quickly, that's just everyone's rather pathetic style online unfortunately. It's all they do. The nice thing is if you are patient with the ball you can work round it fairly easily and irritate the shit out of them by getting away from it nearly every time :) if they implement stamina properly this year then those that press all the first half will be easy pickings come the end of the game for anyone who has been patient!
 
Flame said:
Hey guys, I still don't get how close control and dribbling work separately in this demo
they removed R2+left stick to perform close control
now the only way to do something similar to close control is left stick+right stick (tell me if I was wrong)
but it is also how you perform finesse dribble to past the defender
and I also found that now left stick+right stick could not perform close control as smooth as R2+left stick in the past
I think R2+left stick was a good combination, it was clear that if I only want to perform close control I use R2+left stick and if I only want to perform dribbling skill I use left stick+right stick
now I just can't separate close control and dribbling skill
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you may find this helpful: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/e...n-thread-ps4-xbox.80426/page-185#post-3411414

@SpoonyPizzas got some more tutorial videos! check out his channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvDPOmJS4aLG05TvpaFXNvA

 
PRO_TOO said:
"The finesse dribble has taken its place, and with it the ability to do simple step overs has increased 10x because you now have to hold R2 as well." i dont get that sentence! it has increased because you have to hold R2? isnt that a bad thing then? me and english...! :D
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Yes. This is exactly it. R2 already has other uses, so making it a necessity for skills as well just creates room for error where none is needed. Especially when both some of the skills and letting the ball run through your legs both require you to let go of the left stick. Do you see what I'm trying to say? These changes have created a number of instances where two totally different things require the same button to be pressed, at the same time.

Think of a game that has shit controls? Did you ever play Dark Souls... 2 I think? Clicking in LS was sprint, but double-tapping LS was jump :D I'm sure you can imagine how dumb that was. You can't have two totally different actions requiring the same button at almost exactly the same time. It just doesn't work.

There are two main points I'm unhappy with:

1) The unintuitive control changes that make things more complicated than they need to be
2) More advanced skills are easier to pull off than basic ones

This comment I made before explains the issue with the control changes
It’s the fact they’ve made certain skills require multiple inputs where they are not needed, and made too many things require the use of the same button at the same damn time.

It would be so easy to fix as well!
- hold R2 to finesse dribble
- right stick for skills
- R1 for the ball to go through your legs.

Problem solved! No overlap as R1 is dedicated to sprinting / dummies etc, R2 is dedicated to finesse dribble, and right stick is dedicated to skills. That’s how good controls are designed. Anything that uses the same button should be something that either compliments existing controls, or it uses it in a totally different situations so as not to cause any conflict. PES 2020 just creates conflict for no reason.
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And regarding the skills, think about it; doing skills in real life isn't easy right? There are actually very, very few players who are genuinely brilliant at doing tricks. So if this is the case, why does THE most basic 'skill' in football - a step over - require you to press 3 buttons, therefore creating much more room for error, whereas a roulette spin, which is rarely seen, requires you to simply push the right analog stick in a direction and away you go?

It's so easy to test as well - go into a game, and just start wiggling both analog ticks in different random directions and watch what happens. You don't see simple tricks like drops of the shoulder and step overs, they start spinning all over the place and trying all sorts of stuff. If they swapped them around and you had to hold R2 to do the more advanced tricks I wouldn't mind so much, as you're more likely to use them in conjunction with the finesse dribbling anyway.

You have to actually put more effort in to do what should be the more basic moves.

I don't know how to explain it any better I'm afraid.
 
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OBH said:
Yes. This is exactly it. R2 already has other uses, so making it a necessity for skills as well just creates room for error where none is needed. Especially when both some of the skills and letting the ball run through your legs both require you to let go of the left stick. Do you see what I'm trying to say? These changes have created a number of instances where two totally different things require the same button to be pressed, at the same time. You can't have multiple actions

Think of a game that has shit controls? Did you ever play Dark Souls... 2 I think? Clicking in LS was sprint, but double-tapping LS was jump :D I'm sure you can imagine how dumb that was. You can't have two totally different actions requiring the same button at almost exactly the same time. It just doesn't work.

There are two main points I'm unhappy with:

1) The unintuitive control changes that make things more complicated than they need to be
2) More advanced skills are easier to pull off than basic ones

This comment I made before explains the issue with the control changes


And regarding the skills, think about it; doing skills in real life isn't easy right? There are actually very, very few players who are genuinely brilliant at doing tricks. So if this is the case, why does THE most basic 'skill' in football - a step over - require you to press 3 buttons, therefore creating much more room for error, whereas a roulette spin, which is rarely seen, requires you to simply push the right analog stick in a direction and away you go?

It's so easy to test as well - go into a game, and just start wiggling both analog ticks in different random directions and watch what happens. You don't see simple tricks like drops of the shoulder and step overs, they start spinning all over the place and trying all sorts of stuff. If they swapped them around and you had to hold R2 to do the more advanced tricks I wouldn't mind so much, as you're more likely to use them in conjunction with the finesse dribbling anyway.

You have to actually put more effort in to do what should be the more basic moves.

I don't know how to explain it any better I'm afraid.
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much clearer now! thanks!
that Dark Souls analogy makes sense. but i dont see it that critical in PES2020 yet...

i agree on the part that extreme tricks should be harder to do than a simple shoulder move!

i'll definitely try out the things you mentioned tonight! cant wait to get a clearer picture and experience it myself.

btw: you dont have to let go of the LS when you want the ball go through your legs! just keep on pressing LS in the direction you want to move and hold R2! it will let the ball through the players legs and then move on with it. other then R2+L1 wich lets the ball go through your legs (to a team mate behind) but your player not following the it! and then there is R2 close receiving (not gone!!!) wich is activated by short pressing R2 right at the moment when you receive the ball (but in 2020 you have to pick a direction with LS)!

but again: i've never seen a player receiving a ball and in the same moment doing a stepover. thats the part i dont get. first there is a receiving phase. next step when ball is received you can do a stepover. what am i missing?!

edit:
just an idea! what about 2020 demo camp!? lets have a discord/ps4 voice/or skype chat tonight! whos in!? we play together or alone but we exchange opinions and give tips via voice chat while playing! i'd like that!
 
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Chris Davies said:
It's definitely got me playing online and enjoying it. I wish the matches were a little longer, because I always feel like I could turn those 0-0s into a 1-0 if I just had another 4-5 minutes...
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I know the feeling. Never in my life in Pes have i actually kicked the ball from my 6yard box whenever my opponent's close to scoring. I'd always pass to a nearby open player. Sometimes my opponent would intercept and score. Then I'd go "why oh why didn't i just shoot." Yes, I could do this in almost all pes.

Somehow here in pes20 feels satisfying doing just that. Is it because of defending? Who knows.I love defending here in Pes20. Freakin love this game.

Ps. Still unbeaten online :-)
 
i think i like the live broadcast camera better than the stadium cam. But zoomed in a bit more would be nice. Unlocked with 20 points of movement instead of just 10.
 
jasminmj said:
I don't want for this to be taken in a wrong way, but a lot of issues people are having could be because of lack of skill in the game it self. That includes the biggest issue people have with fouls.
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I think there's actually a good bit of truth to this, but in the end this just goes back to poor work by Konami with its skill curve and teaching people how to play.

PES is an odd one with its difficulty curve. I consider myself a PES noob but each year I can immediately start the game on the highest difficulty level and hold my own. This can give the false impression that I'm good at the game, but the reality is I only know like half the controls and I feel like I'm all thumbs when playing. But yet I can be competitive or even win on the highest difficulty.

Each year I learn my lesson, and force myself to play at the lower levels. Those matches are not competitive and way too easy, but it allows me to get deeper into learning the game and I then enjoy the experience when I go back to Superstar or whatever is now highest.

Combine this with PES's terribly unintuitive control scheme - IMO, can't think of a worse one out there - and poorly teaching people about its features and controls, and it makes for this odd experience where you can both suck at the game but still compete on the highest levels.

So while I agree that many complaints might be mitigated with more experience with the game, for me this goes back to Konami and not making the game more accessible. If Konami is really going to ever eat away at FIFA's control of the market, they're going to have to do a much better job at easing the transition.
 
Chris Davies said:
Oh no, it's that "you're playing the game wrong" time of year already?!

In all seriousness, a few people have said "it's more punishing to hold X now". Great. But most of the not-fouls I saw last night (and posted a short clip of) were by the AI. And besides, holding X lazily doesn't make my player commit a foul. I'd love it if he did! It just makes the referee blow for a foul when there hasn't been one.

I hate harking on about this (believe it or not), I can accept we've all got different opinons and people are so desperate for fouls they're happy with it. I accept that.

But the point here is, the AI isn't fouling now, they're being adjudged to have fouled me and haven't - and the same is happening to me. That's not more fouls. That's more stoppages without reason. They're not being more aggressive or misjudging things. They're just... Well, in one example last night, heading the ball away.
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There’s definitely credence in what your saying Chris and clear video examples of your point.

In my case I’m not desperate for,nor am I willing to accept fouls for the sake of it.If it was such a massive and glaring issue it wouldn’t of gone under my radar..Denial mode isn’t something I do..Nor would except random fouls.

I’ve seen so many examples already of it working.Cpu tackles from behind,late lunges,advantage being played(players booked when play stops).Not every contact is a foul,negative outcome or a cause for the whistle to blow.

It’s a working system that does a pretty consistent job..And yes this year hit and hope or just continually barging players will result in the ref stopping play.Theres plenty of scope to win the ball without even touching the X button.
 
how the hell konami dont fix that bug when you play manuel passing that the keeper canT to shoot the ball shOrtly out of the hand ?

Doesnt matter how long you press the shoot button the keeper shoot the ball full power... i dont get it.

anyone notice ?
 
DigitalByDesign said:

Little one I did superstar pa0..lovely long ball 4.30(haven’t been able to pull this one off for years)..

I do prefer the Xbox X version over the ps4,for me more responsive and just smoother generally(PS4 pro footage).
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I have both and yes Xbox One X version is smooth as butter and plays better.Loving the game atm.Playing with players like Pjanic,Özil,Frenkie de Jong and Thiago and dictating the tempo is pure joy. I've also looked the review page on Xbox and it's 4 star out of 5 which is a good thing.I've seen lots of people praising the game on social media and forums, if Konami ruin this game when it launches, they loose people's trust big time.
 
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Bond!JamesBond! said:
i think i like the live broadcast camera better than the stadium cam. But zoomed in a bit more would be nice. Unlocked with 20 points of movement instead of just 10.
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How do you (or anyone else here) play with the cameras zoomed in? I just can't do it (I've tried).

I need to see lots of the pitch so I can work out my moves way beforehand. Plus the action feels too fast and frantic up-close.
 
I'm getting closer to falling in absolute love with game. Played wayyyy too late last night multiple matches of Boca vs Barca. Once I get the tactics right, I'm the type of person that's extremely pleased. Makes matches imo.

I found a fix for teams not pressing up high and dropping 10 men behind the ball simultaneously. I simply but their attacking level to red and boom. Not only do you get the AI pressing you high up the pitch but it also makes them much more aggressive which makes them much more interested in winning the ball back and less standoffish.

Can't do this with any team with attacking fullbacks option selected because it pushes the fullbacks unrealistically high. Only real problem that seems unsalvageable is getting Barcelona to play like Barcelona. Teams still play wayyy too direct. Putting the attacking level to red seems to heighten this as well. And for someone like me that plays 30 minute halves, this is nearly gamebreaking. There needs to be "Very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast" tempo option for teams or a 1-100 slider option.

I'm really considering buying this game next year. Which would be my first time since 16 or 15 I think.
 
The worst part of the fouls for me is the continual having to get out of cut scenes. Do we really have to have a replay of every single foul? Unless the free kick's taken quickly that is. I've only played two games so maybe it isn't after every foul but it certainly seems like it so far. It's not helped by the time it takes to get back on with the game. That bugged me no end in 2017. Surely we've reached the time to have a toggle on/off option for cut scenes? They're nice to see the first few times but it would be nice to dispense with them if we wanted to.
 
Mikhail said:
Like someone above said, I absolutely hate the long drawn out cut scenes of every. single. foul.

Just let us skip it quickly, Konami. And with 'X', not the fu*king 'Options' button!!!!
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Some mentioned it. This is part of the PES dna for me (seeing it very romantic here)!
I’m with you on those cutscenes; we need less or better integrated intelligent ones!
But not on the X vs START button!
That’s PES culture to me. :) like some might find the controller layout is.

If we had it on X everyone would be hammering it like in the other game. To me it’s a small bump, a barrier that keeps us from doing so. So we can watch more presentation stuff and relax.

And don’t get me going on people skipping the replay right before the good stuff is shown... (letting it run for a few seconds before)! ^^ ;)
 
OBH said:
PES 2019 had something that Fifa has forever found difficult to implement - doing a trick with your first touch. It was incredibly easy to do as well, simply hold the right analogue stick in any direction you choose. That’s it. That’s all it needed.

The beauty with this method was because no other controls were mapped to the right stick it was 100% reliable and you could do every single trick in the game the moment you receive the ball.
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Might have been easier to perform but it wasn't at all realistic, mate.
Do we agree on that?.

I remember passing the ball (very powerful pass) with Veratti, to Di Maria (who is a skilfull player but not the best, and he often has poor first touch in real life) and performing step overs and all sorts of tricks the second the ball got to his feet. Looked pretty bad to be honest.

Now, I'm still not comfortable with the so called "Finesse Dribbling" I don't think it's well implemented. But I might change my opinion later, because I'm yet to master it.
 
FarStranger said:
I really don't get why they included Edit Mode in the demo, you can't play with any of the teams you're editing and ignoring Banners and Add a new Strip, Edit Mode looks the same as previous editions.
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It gives editors a head start. All editing done in the demo carries over to the main game. That's 6 leagues out of a probable 7 or 8 that you can edit the vast majority of before release day. This means editors can have OFs out a lot quicker and can perfect their kits without feeling pressured for time to get a file out on day 1.
 
Mikhail said:
Like someone above said, I absolutely hate the long drawn out cut scenes of every. single. foul.

Just let us skip it quickly, Konami. And with 'X', not the fu*king 'Options' button!!!!
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Foul replays should only be for the following

Penalty foul
Foul around the box in shooting distance
Yellow card fouls
Red card fouls

Simple you'd think but this seems to really complicated for Konami to understand for some reason :LOL:
 
I don't want for this to be taken in a wrong way, but a lot of issues people are having could be because of lack of skill in the game it self. That includes the biggest issue people have with fouls.
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sorry didn't read so many last pages but what's the issue with fouls? funny if people complain about fouls this year.. this is by far the best PES with fouls ever that I have seen and certainly the best football game in years with fouls in general. I hope fifa20 fouls is working as good PES2020 beta online. It's pretty good.. some times I think the card should higher but overall this is one of the biggest improvements in this game from last year that I have noticed.. the other top 2 biggest improvements are this...

1.. controller input.. this is the best PES ever that I have played in terms of how fast the controller input reacts to on screen..... it's pretty instant more than ever before which makes the gameplay control in this game the best I have seen

2. the other big improvement is the physicality in this game.. the collision detection and tackling and sheilding is the best I ever seen any football game to date. this is probably imo the best new improvement overall to this game this year and it makes a huge difference in the gameplay vs others online in the beta. I hope fifa also gets this better this year like this. because of this new feature in PES.. you can control the game and slow it down against any opponent online who is full throttle pressing u non stop. it's now very easy to counteract these type of players more so than any football game ever made to date. this to me is the best thing about the beta online.


honestly, I can't complain to much about the gameplay from what I have played online against others in the beta... it's pretty dam smooth and great tactical matches. I wish FIFA online would get more of this type of involved into it's games.. but to me fifa is more about skill moves online than tactics ... which is fine as I like that too.. but this game for me is so much more real to life when playing online 1 v 1.

the things I think that i would nit pick about that i think are off.. is keeper animations can be better.. especially when you do the finesse shot upper corner with messi the keepers in this game will save it and look stupid while doing it. lol these goals go in every time on fifa but it's like an easy save in this game for some reason. also I don't like when the keeper punches the ball or the net when he can easily catch it. I seen neuer do this and I was like hmmm and the other annoying I seen is also with keepers.. I feel they parry the ball back into open play way to easy for an easy goal in this. they need to one that down. but other than that.. the gameplay online in this probably the best 1 v online footie gameplay of all time. so i can't complain to much
 
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Mikhail said:
How do you (or anyone else here) play with the cameras zoomed in? I just can't do it (I've tried).

I need to see lots of the pitch so I can work out my moves way beforehand. Plus the action feels too fast and frantic up-close.
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taking the live broadcast cam in 10 clicks, would still be able to see everything.

talucchesi said:
I'm getting closer to falling in absolute love with game. Played wayyyy too late last night multiple matches of Boca vs Barca. Once I get the tactics right, I'm the type of person that's extremely pleased. Makes matches imo.

I found a fix for teams not pressing up high and dropping 10 men behind the ball simultaneously. I simply but their attacking level to red and boom. Not only do you get the AI pressing you high up the pitch but it also makes them much more aggressive which makes them much more interested in winning the ball back and less standoffish.

Can't do this with any team with attacking fullbacks option selected because it pushes the fullbacks unrealistically high. Only real problem that seems unsalvageable is getting Barcelona to play like Barcelona. Teams still play wayyy too direct. Putting the attacking level to red seems to heighten this as well. And for someone like me that plays 30 minute halves, this is nearly gamebreaking. There needs to be "Very slow, slow, normal, fast, very fast" tempo option for teams or a 1-100 slider option.

I'm really considering buying this game next year. Which would be my first time since 16 or 15 I think.
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me too, last PES i got was 17, this is much better. Love it on live broadcast camera, looks like real footballers on the pitch. I'm getting it day one.
 
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PRO_TOO said:
I’m finally home now and ready to take my @OBH Exam! :)

When I’m done I’ll spend an extra hour in @Chris Davies vs Barca school.

Edit: Man, that jet plane starting every time... ^^ this needs fixing!!!
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use this
Metro-Vacuum-MDV-1BA-DataVac-Pro-Computer-Vac-Blower.jpg
 
steveee said:
sorry didn't read so many last pages but what's the issue with fouls? funny if people complain about fouls this year.. this is by far the best PES with fouls ever that I have seen and certainly the best football game in years with fouls in general.
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Not to drag it back up bit the jist of it is there are fouls regularly being given for tackles that aren't fouls.
It's now too far the other way. Middle ground would be great.
 
I saw some guys holding up PES 5 as a model of a fouling system but I think this is false memory. If you go back it was just as "broken" back then.

Maybe with modern animation it's more noticeable when errors occur. But in many cases players just brush eachother and fouls are given in PES 5, when two seconds earlier an obvious foul was not given. It was consistently inconsistent. Not only this but it wasn't 100% fair either, foul leniency was another difficulty factor they used to give small boosts to the AI.

Konami should have better communicated in advanced that this was an intended change in philosophy. Sadly all you see on their feeds are whining kiddies complaining about too many fouls.
 
Super cancel doesn't seem to cancel passes most of the time... Just delays them then performs the same pass anyway.

I used this a lot in 19, it was especially useful online because people could see the power bar and start of the animation before you cancelled it, often baiting them into backing off to cover the fake passes.
 
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