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eFootball (All Platforms)

MafiaMurderBag said:
It could be they want to streamline all the games and make them cohesive on all platforms in terms of presentation and engine. Similar to how the PS4/PS3 versions are basically the same game other than graphical capabilities.
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Basically not a choice. The only game left using the FOX engine was PES. They can't/won't keep updating their engine for next gen just for one game, so it's a straightforward decision really, just use the leading engine. FOX was probably just a dead end ever since Kojima left and Konami stopped developing most of their franchises.
 
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janguv said:
I'm wondering how much of the new game will have used not just assets/UI from the mobile game but stock animations they've built up over the recent years. I only dabbled with the PES mobile game a couple times, but you could see how it shared a common design philosophy with the console games in terms of things like animations.

Personally I'm sceptical that they'll have "ported" things like this over. I'm not really savvy enough with game development to know how feasible it really would be to do that; from what I've heard, it strikes me as unlikely. But I do think they'll have used the PES games they have already made as inspiration for the redesign – indeed, to a point where it's not quite right to describe it as "from the ground up".
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PES team uses a lot of motion capture and so they probably just reused the same mocap data in UE, which I'm pretty sure can be done. That has to be why it looks so similar. It wouldn't be feasible for a team with such limited resources to rebuild the animation set from scratch. This image suggests there have been changes to the animation system, albeit subtle (notice the foot not sinking into the ground). It does make me wonder what they used for the teaser trailer though, since that looked signifigantly more advanced.

Expectation vs reality :))




Will that level animation ever see the light of day, or was it just something done in isolation by the artists and the reality was the only way they could get to a playable release was to reuse and tweak the existing animations. Just because an artist can render something doesn't mean it works in practice. It's possible that the trailer level animation is something you will only see in cut scenes or MyClub player reveals.
 
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staffan said:
PES team uses a lot of motion capture and so they probably just reused the same mocap data in UE, which I'm pretty sure can be done. That has to be why it looks so similar. It wouldn't be feasible for a team with such limited resources to rebuild the animation set from scratch. This image suggests there have been changes to the animation system, albeit subtle (notice the foot not sinking into the ground). It does make me wonder what they used for the teaser trailer though, since that looked signifigantly more advanced.

Expectation vs reality :))




Will that level animation ever see the light of day, or was it just something done in isolation by the artists and the reality was the only way they could get to a playable release was to reuse and tweak the existing animations. Just because an artist can render something doesn't mean it works in practice. It's possible that the trailer level animation is something you will only see in cut scenes or MyClub player reveals.
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Football games are just stuck in the PS3/360 era. There's no real demand for better animation.





2k works on motion-capture all year around. Whenever they can have a session with a player to get his motions in the game they do.

EA and Konami are just stuck in 2010 or something, they don't really care. Their costumers don't care either or will go on these rambling nonsensical rants about how it's not feasible for the football game to have good animations because of some bollocks they made up in their heads.
 
How come there is not any other game developers able to create a new football game?

It’s such a popular sport and you don’t need licence to create a football game.

Why cant the likes of 2k sports make one?

We desperately need a new player in this field as fifa to be is dead period and PES is fast becoming dead to me.
 
Personally, I was hoping the game would really change the atmosphere. I usually play PES most of my time but I also play FIFA often and FIFA has a great football atmosphere. You may feel like you're in a real game, but PES has realistic gameplay and that's it. I can see from this beta that they haven't even touched the atmosphere of the match.
 
Hell, if anything animation has gotten progressively worse. FIFA 08 and Euro 2008 had far better and more realistic animation than FIFA does now.
Players had to actually plant their feet back then. Now they slide all over the place and the balls actively goes through their feet. It's the dumbest thing.

Same goes for PES. I used to think PES 5 and 6 had some of the best animation I'd ever seen in a sports game Things just kept getting progressively worse.

jonneymendoza said:
How come there is not any other game developers able to create a new football game?

It’s such a popular sport and you don’t need licence to create a football game.

Why cant the likes of 2k sports make one?

We desperately need a new player in this field as fifa to be is dead period and PES is fast becoming dead to me.
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Because game development is expensive and nobody wants to get into a losing game. EA own all the important licenses and most of the market share.
You're not going to invest the (huge) amount of money necessary to actually become a viable competitor in this space only to end up selling maybe a couple million copies, it makes no financial sense. You have to make a game from the ground-up, you have to create a brand from the ground up and you have to market it insanely well to make a dent in the leader.
 
Shikashi said:
Hell, if anything animation has gotten progressively worse. FIFA 08 and Euro 2008 had far better and more realistic animation than FIFA does now.
Players had to actually plant their feet back then. Now they slide all over the place and the balls actively goes through their feet. It's the dumbest thing.

Same goes for PES. I used to think PES 5 and 6 had some of the best animation I'd ever seen in a sports game Things just kept getting progressively worse.


Because game development is expensive and nobody wants to get into a losing game. EA own all the important licenses and most of the market share.
You're not going to invest the (huge) amount of money necessary to actually become a viable competitor in this space only to end up selling maybe a couple million copies, it makes no financial sense. You have to make a game from the ground-up, you have to create a brand from the ground up and you have to market it insanely well to make a dent in the leader.
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Sorry but that’s rubbish.

That’s like saying, hey, there’s cod, lets all stop and give up on FPS games, no one make another one?? Yet there are many FPS shooters out there, from small to big companies.

Football could be done using an indie dev studio, make it old school international sides only, You don’t need but maybe the very basic of licence to have all the national kits and names for that and that’s something EA cant touch exclusively.

A indie or a big company like 2k can go and make a international national game with national sides with there kits etc and have it also be moddable so you can create your own kits, leagues and competitions like in PES. Done

Go from there and build up a rep.

You seriously cant tell me its EA footballl games and that’s it? Never ever in our life’s will we see another football game?
 
jonneymendoza said:
How come there is not any other game developers able to create a new football game?

It’s such a popular sport and you don’t need licence to create a football game.

Why cant the likes of 2k sports make one?

We desperately need a new player in this field as fifa to be is dead period and PES is fast becoming dead to me.
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Something I've been increasingly wondering is how much less effort would it be to develop a football game that was purely online, 11 v 11 humans (or fewer), so there would be theoretically be no need for any AI at all. Just physics and animations.

Put all the effort into making a single virtual player move, and play with a ball, as close to a human as possible via you controller, develop some physics and animations for tackling and player collisions, put 20 clones on the pitch and chuck a ball in there with the necessary physics, add some goalposts and just have auto-goalies.

Some basic player attributes could be added later, to make some differentiation between strikers and defenders for example but that would initially be less important.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Sorry but that’s rubbish.

That’s like saying, hey, there’s cod, lets all stop and give up on FPS games, no one make another one?? Yet there are many FPS shooters out there, from small to big companies.

Football could be done using an indie dev studio, make it old school international sides only, You don’t need but maybe the very basic of licence to have all the national kits and names for that and that’s something EA cant touch exclusively.

A indie or a big company like 2k can go and make a international national game with national sides with there kits etc and have it also be moddable so you can create your own kits, leagues and competitions like in PES. Done

Go from there and build up a rep.

You seriously cant tell me its EA footballl games and that’s it? Never ever in our life’s will we see another football game?
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Well, sorry but it's not rubbish. It's more or less the exact accurate reason we are stuck with this duopoly. Or you think we haven't seen another competitive football game since the early 00' just by chance?

It seems it's simply not worth it for anyone, indie studios or bigger ones. I'd love to see it disprove but it just keep on not happening.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Sorry but that’s rubbish.

That’s like saying, hey, there’s cod, lets all stop and give up on FPS games, no one make another one?? Yet there are many FPS shooters out there, from small to big companies.

Football could be done using an indie dev studio, make it old school international sides only, You don’t need but maybe the very basic of licence to have all the national kits and names for that and that’s something EA cant touch exclusively.

A indie or a big company like 2k can go and make a international national game with national sides with there kits etc and have it also be moddable so you can create your own kits, leagues and competitions like in PES. Done

Go from there and build up a rep.

You seriously cant tell me its EA footballl games and that’s it? Never ever in our life’s will we see another football game?
Click to expand...
What's rubbish? More and more often sports games are becoming a one publisher/developer for sport affair because of the realities of game development and its costs.

There is one American football game. The NFL license is exclusive to EA, but nobody is stopping anyone from creating a new entry to the most popular sport in America.
There is one baseball game, even though the license is not exclusive to Sony San Diego. 2k and EA simply removed themselves from that space because they didn't like their market analysis on ROI.
There is one UFC game.
There is one basketball game, even though the license is not exclusive and EA even has the license. Probably the 2nd most popular sport in the world if you include China.

If your plan was so sound then how come 2k, having won commercial success and critical acclaim with their NFL 2k series, (only to be forced out of that market by EA signing an exclusive with the NFL) didn't continue with that series or a spin-off? If all you need is to create great gameplay and a robust edit mode then surely people would follow you? They did just that, they made All Pro Football 2k. It sold so poorly that 2k had to pull the plug after a single game.

There are alternative indie football games, but they're indie games.

Your FPS comparison is absolute nonsense. FPS is the dominant genre in videogames, it's far easier for a publisher to justify trying to get into that market space and there's nothing stopping casual players from trying one game over the other. It doesn't matter if football is the most popular sport in the world, that market space already had its leader. And that leader is selling 20 to 30 million copies on a yearly-basis with very important exclusive licenses. Casual players don't care about your wonderful gameplay if they can't do what's expected from a sports games, which is to pick it up and play it with your mates with all the players and teams you see on TV.

I don't care about casual players. I don't care about licenses. But the people that make these investments and want returns for them do. And they're the ones whose opinion matter.
 
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Was just thinking actually, the strong desire to want photo-realistic graphics in PES actually harms it i think.

It requires everyones faces to be near enough "spot on" and with thousands of football players to do that for, its not really feasible.
It requires mocap to be at least somewhat varied for different kinds of players, especially for the top top players to have them feel unique, and thats not really ever gonna happen.
It requires the engine overall to be photo-realistic, whilst also providing great physics and animations "under the hood", whilst not running at a terrible fps, and ALL to be working seemlessly together so that it looks like actual football on the TV.

Its not something PES should be striving for at this stage yet, in my opinion anyway. Its too early, i mean FOX engine just looked really creepy to me overall.

Id much prefer a company making a stylized version of football, something creative artistically. That way everything doesnt have to look super perfect and not fall into "uncanny valley territory, looking somewhat near but still off.

If everything was styled like this, in realistic scale, with smooth animation transitions and good physics, itd be sweet:
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DinoSOAR said:
Was just thinking actually, the strong desire to want photo-realistic graphics in PES actually harms it i think.

It requires everyones faces to be near enough "spot on" and with thousands of football players to do that for, its not really feasible.
It requires mocap to be at least somewhat varied for different kinds of players, especially for the top top players to have them feel unique, and thats not really ever gonna happen.
It requires the engine overall to be photo-realistic, whilst also providing great physics and animations "under the hood", whilst not running at a terrible fps, and ALL to be working seemlessly together so that it looks like actual football on the TV.

Its not something PES should be striving for at this stage yet, in my opinion anyway. Its too early, i mean FOX engine just looked really creepy to me overall.

Id much prefer a company making a stylized version of football, something creative artistically. That way everything doesnt have to look super perfect and not fall into "uncanny valley territory, looking somewhat near but still off.

If everything was styled like this, in realistic scale, with smooth animation transitions and good physics, itd be sweet:
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I don't disagree. What I want from a football game is changing, partly because FIFA and PES aren't even trying to deliver a good offline experience any more and partly because I want just something that just feels like playing football, I don't car about all the balls and whistles. I think the only way to achieve that is having all players controlled by humans, no AI at all, just 11v11 humans (see my post a couple up).

EA and Konami pour so much money into buying licences and so much effort goes into their bad FUT type gameplay, fancy gfx, bad AI and bad offline modes. Just give me real physics and pure gameplay controlling one player with other humans online....the gfx can be cartoon stick-men as far as I'm concerned.
 
normazimuth said:
Just give me real physics and pure gameplay controlling one player with other humans online....the gfx can be cartoon stick-men as far as I'm concerned.
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I think Rocket League is basically this, except its cars instead of stickmen - best and fairest online "football" game I've ever played. The gameplay is purely physics driven, no AI, unresponsive animations or scripted situations unlike the same old tired formula "real" football games have used since the 90s.
 
NathW90 said:
I'm not caught up on everyone's takes on it, but I've just watched a match from this PES 2022 footage and it looks like the exact same game again. Same clunky animations and movements, same slow turning, same ball physics, same awful crowd sounds, same UI, same everything.

Built from the ground up my arse. They must have taken a year out to just chill, because they certainly haven't built a "new" game. Football games are just dead at this point.
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If they build the game from ground up then I don't see Pes 2015 all over again in Pes 2022 beta which we have obviously already seen in Pes 2016- Pes 2021.
 
jonneymendoza said:
How come there is not any other game developers able to create a new football game?

It’s such a popular sport and you don’t need licence to create a football game.

Why cant the likes of 2k sports make one?

We desperately need a new player in this field as fifa to be is dead period and PES is fast becoming dead to me.
Click to expand...
No one has the courage to do it on a big scale. You'll find most of them doing them indie though. Some are fun and some aren't.
 
So I just played two games, and honestly what is all the negativity for? This is clearly a very, very early and an unpolished build of the game. Grass textures are missing, fans are non-existent, player models are unpolished. That's just graphics stuff, can be and İ think will be easily fixed. Ambiance won't be great, because well it's Konami and we know they have no idea on how to improve that.

I also do not believe that this is a separate game which has nothing to do with PES 2022. I think this is one of the very early playable builds of the game.

They have fixed a lot of the outdated issues. Defending system has changed, sprint system has changed, dribbling has changed. These are all very good changes. PES's defending with x system was acceptible until early 2010s it was outdated for years now. Sure it's a pain to get accustomed to new mechanics but it makes sense. You can actually protect your shape.

Collision system looks better. Have no definite verdict on this but it looks better. Thus foul decisions seem better too.

Animation choices are better, players usually opt for better, more suited animations compared to last two games.

Offensive player selection seems sorted. I play manual and one of the real problems was you couldn't do a tight space short passing game. Although ball went to the right place game consistently selected wrong players which killed your attack. Did it 5-6 times without any issues.

Player awareness is better. Players actively try to intercept the ball instead of having mindfarts the second ball comes near them.

Dribbling looks better but we'll see. I think there'll be less dribbling as people get adjusted to the new defending system and get better at it.

Overall I like the barebones. There are some problems as well. Player runs are still just in vertical lines. I have no idea why they switched standard feint with this new thing. It looks like it will be a better game than last two though.

I just hope they are working on game modes as well

EDIT: THEY BROUGHT TACKLE CARDS BACK
 
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I have been enjoying this to be fair and I don't say that often as far as online football games go, a lot of the toxicity that's present in PES 2021 online seems absent from this test. I also applaud assigning the standing tackle to a one time button press too, intuitive but also requires skill and timing and it beats players sprinting into you to take the ball 7 days a week.

It all makes me a bit sad though as we've learned in the past that when a beta/demo/early build shows potential, It's usually a complete 180 by launch and all the stuff that makes a game poisonous and deflating to play usually manifests itself in the final product or gets patched in not long after launch.
 
As most of you I am sincerely hoping that pes22 will be the great comeback of pes. Bringing us back to the enjoyment of the good old days.
The fact that they announced to skip a year was drastic, but necessary and gave me hope because with the move they acknowledged a lot of things were wrong with pes and things needed to be fixed.
That being said, I really don't understand how Konami could release such a 'demo'. Regardless what you think of the quality or if it's pes22 or not, but this is just so bad marketing.
And the worst thing is that Konami didn't pick up this confusing in the community and release some sort of communication to clear things up. This indicates the ever present incompetence of them. I was hopeful, but these disastrous way of events made my expectations temper a lot.
 
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