eFootball (All Platforms)

On the subject of defending - did anybody find defending in this beta fun? I found the new R2 dribbling fun but it was stupidly easy to beat opposition players and that reddit video demonstrates over and over that the game is all about attacking with ease and the defensive play continually being made to look like headless chickens running around and tackling animations playing out half a second too late.

Part of the issue may be people haven't learned how to defend in it yet, but the commands available, sluggishness of response to your controller input, poor player switching (and when you do player switch, the first thing that player does is stop, breaking his run and giving the attacker even more advantage) along with terrible teammate AI and lack of ability to call other players to press, the balance of the game seems to be completely in favour of attack and all you have to save you when defending is the over-powered goalkeepers, which is probably why they're over-powered.
 
Pistol90 said:
Every single one of those goals is the same ....

I would even accept those graphic, but every single goal not to be - low shot far post ... and they will ofcourse make goalkeepers impossible to beat any other way.
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Yeah it seems they've added a new low shot command with R2 (dunno what has happened to finesse). So people are definitely going to rinse it. And the guy doing that video clearly enjoys using it again and again lol.
 
normazimuth said:
On the subject of defending - did anybody find defending in this beta fun? I found the new R2 dribbling fun but it was stupidly easy to beat opposition players and that reddit video demonstrates over and over that the game is all about attacking with ease and the defensive play continually being made to look like headless chickens running around.

Part of the issue may be people haven't learned how to defend in it yet, but the commands available, sluggishness of response to your controller input, poor player switching (and when you do player switch, the first thing that player does is stop, breaking his run and giving the attacker even more advantage) along with terrible teammate AI and lack of ability to call other players to press, the balance of the game seems to be completely in favour of attack and all you have to save you is the over-powered goalkeepers.
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Until RS switching is in the game, I can't imagine how defending would begin to seem adequate. Basically cannot anticipate even very obvious passes as it stands.

Perhaps they'll add a second-man press in the style of their "match-up" X press system. Then they'll crowd but not make the tackle. It would probably be the best compromise between what this is and what PES 2021 is. But I fear the esports crowd will complain it's too automated.
 
Shikashi said:
Football games are just stuck in the PS3/360 era. There's no real demand for better animation.



2k works on motion-capture all year around. Whenever they can have a session with a player to get his motions in the game they do.

EA and Konami are just stuck in 2010 or something, they don't really care. Their costumers don't care either or will go on these rambling nonsensical rants about how it's not feasible for the football game to have good animations because of some bollocks they made up in their heads.
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I like to play basketball in real life and I tried this game.
I just can´t enjoy it....basketball as a video game....don´t know why, it doesn´t satisfy me the way football does.

However, my 17 year old is a very active NBA2K Player.
I´ve watched him play and I gotta say, if you enjoy playing basketball, you can´t avoid this game.
It got everything, all the bells and whistles, many modes, story mode...awesome graphics, it´s incredible!
Hardcore fans might be nitpicking about gameplay features, but that I don´t know of.
But this surely is, what a sports game should be.

I don´t know if PES will ever be the game we are looking for, which comes close to a package like this.
I doubt it.
Kinda sad, because it would be absolutely doable.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I like to play basketball in real life and I tried this game.
I just can´t enjoy it....basketball as a video game....don´t know why, it doesn´t satisfy me the way football does.

However, my 17 year old is a very active NBA2K Player.
I´ve watched him play and I gotta say, if you enjoy playing basketball, you can´t avoid this game.
It got everything, all the bells and whistles, many modes, story mode...awesome graphics, it´s incredible!
Hardcore fans might be nitpicking about gameplay features, but that I don´t know of.
But this surely is, what a sports game should be.

I don´t know if PES will ever be the game we are looking for, which comes close to a package like this.
I doubt it.
Kinda sad, because it would be absolutely doable.
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Isn't the other side of the coin (coin being the operative word...) that 2k are even greedier and more predatory when it comes to microtransactions than even EA is? I've never played a 2k game, but this is something I've heard a lot.
 
janguv said:
The thing that always irks me when people talk about "auto-defending" and "manual defending", is they don't seem to acknowledge that the AI always has to do something. If that something is standing in a pre-set position, then it's automated to that extent also, and it means they could be hard to break down if the tactics squeezes them into the box with a deep line (that's a "meta" online right now, I'm told, and it looks horrendous to play against).

People moan about holding Square to pressure – and I can see it's pretty cheesy if you even let the AI do the tackling – but if you're switching and covering lanes, bringing players in by pressing Square, switching again, etc., that seems by contrast pretty "manual" to me.

But the big question is what should AI defenders off the ball look like. How should the position themselves, anticipate attacks, respond to tactical instructions, etc. It seems the efootball crowd mainly want the defenders to stand per the gameplan positions and do literally nothing unless you switch to them.
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Thank you, This is an excellent point and something I bang on a lot about too regarding defending. The AI defenders you aren't controlling can not simply do nothing until you take control of one of them for the sake of giving the human player agency as they need to be covering or marking appropriately until you assume control of a new defender otherwise you will always be at a disadvantage compared to the amount of control and options someone does while attacking.

Take attacking for instance, of course you can only control one player at a time however you are depending on the AI to ensure a team mate makes a key run or at least gets into a useful position to sustain your attack. If they never moved just because you're not controlling the, than nothing resembling the competitive and intelligent aspect of football takes place off the ball.

Defending is the same, You need good AI defending to provide coverage until you switch to a more appropriate player and carry out your command or else you end up like Pique in that first highlight of the clip you shared where the AI is controlling him, he goes a bit bonkers until the player switches to him but he's already in a screwed position regarding the situation and can't orient himself in time because the AI let the player down.
 
janguv said:
Isn't the other side of the coin (coin being the operative word...) that 2k are even greedier and more predatory when it comes to microtransactions than even EA is? I've never played a 2k game, but this is something I've heard a lot.
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I don´t know....maybe, but I´m not sure.
My son plays a lot of (don´t know whats the name of this mode, but its like FUT or myclub) that My Team stuff.
I would have noticed if my credit card bill would be higher than usual and I guess he got a good team already :P .
 
I definitely think that some decent AI routines would really be the win we're after, most of us. Defence stats should basically mean some are great at covering, some at reacting to risks 5% quicker, etc. Attacking, the best attackers make the best or most varied AI runs, stay onside the most, are the most able to react to predatory situations etc.

What I want to know is why has no company sought to sue the vast amounts of GPS data vs ball positioning data that exists now and simply tried to do a machine learning AI routine from that stuff? If you want realism, which I do - that'd be the way.
 
I have been a winning eleven/PES fanboy for over 20 years and i still could not be arsed to download this "beta" to try out this broken mess.

I still have big hopes for 7/21
 
Pistol90 said:
Every single one of those goals is the same ....

I would even accept those graphic, but every single goal not to be - low shot far post ... and they will ofcourse make goalkeepers impossible to beat any other way.
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Also the ball seems to be floating and really slow trajectory, compared to the players shooting animation you expect more power. I've never seen the ball move so slowly in real life. All goals are so boring and unsatisfying. Where are the screamers that we loved to do with Adriano in pes 5?
 
Have played the Beta again - after a game of PES 21 with my ML team, Rennes:

Whatever people observe, it is just very ODD to play this Beta, some things may have been coded in and some aspects clearly unfinished. For starters the players do appear to be floating on a green outer-space like substance. The collision detection seems very random and everything just feels a bit low-res, despite having some new animations.

I am not defending Konami (see my above posts) at all but it would be very very very strange if PES 2022 was substantially like this. If it is close to this, it will be the END for them.

With half an eye closed I can imagine the new dribbling style (if it sticks of course and is mean for consoles) might work but right now I have no faith in the passing or anything else I see on screen, so I'm not prepared to vouch for that.

For me; animations, pitches, lighting, camera angle, passing long and short and defending system ALL have to be spot on or 9.5/10 otherwise I will not be getting the new game. And I want to pick up the ball with Jack Grealish or Coutinho and feel a thrill of excitement, so for that the dribbling has to be spot on too.


*no jokes about those players please, any player that has the ability to dribble and create with skills, could be Neymar, Coman, Sancho etc
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Defending is the same, You need good AI defending to provide coverage until you switch to a more appropriate player and carry out your command or else you end up like Pique in that first highlight of the clip you shared where the AI is controlling him, he goes a bit bonkers until the player switches to him but he's already in a screwed position regarding the situation and can't orient himself in time because the AI let the player down.
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Screenshot 2021-06-28 at 15.48.55.jpg
This bit, yeah? Completely brainless and unaware!
 
janguv said:
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Well now is not that hard to do that, just you need to have a basic understanding of free space and trick mechanics and you can destroy every defense without a problem (as FIFA). Now beat defenders one by one, others are just watching and waiting. We will have tons of PES compilations, with feints and tricks (as FIFA)

However, there is time, let's wait, because I think a lot of the new mechanics and the button mapping are super thoughtless and Konami has to do some things, as the game now is totally out of balance. (as FIFA)
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I like to play basketball in real life and I tried this game.
I just can´t enjoy it....basketball as a video game....don´t know why, it doesn´t satisfy me the way football does.

However, my 17 year old is a very active NBA2K Player.
I´ve watched him play and I gotta say, if you enjoy playing basketball, you can´t avoid this game.
It got everything, all the bells and whistles, many modes, story mode...awesome graphics, it´s incredible!
Hardcore fans might be nitpicking about gameplay features, but that I don´t know of.
But this surely is, what a sports game should be.

I don´t know if PES will ever be the game we are looking for, which comes close to a package like this.
I doubt it.
Kinda sad, because it would be absolutely doable.
Click to expand...
Hard core SIM players approves!
 
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I hope this is not the definitive PES 2022 Beta. May it have other versions, or at least a demo, lacked a transparency explaining in more detail about this beta.

We hope this small preview whets your appetite for the official release
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1x2fmz.jpg
 
Agreed. The obsession with esports crap, which is a minor thing, and the microtransactions stuff, is just awful. Yes, FIFA make millions from it, but that niche is filled. PES can't and won't compete there, and they're missing a trick. If they just made the best actual football game ever, they'd simply sell more either way.
 
robsk said:
Agreed. The obsession with esports crap, which is a minor thing, and the microtransactions stuff, is just awful. Yes, FIFA make millions from it, but that niche is filled. PES can't and won't compete there, and they're missing a trick. If they just made the best actual football game ever, they'd simply sell more either way.
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I'm not sure tbh. First, I don't think that selling copies is the main objective. It's good of course, but the more important thing is to hook the right sort of customer and have them spend bucketloads on loot boxes. And second, "the best" is pretty subjective – to many in the online/esports world, the best game is one which feels slick on the ball (something PES has been focussing on) and one where team shape, defensive AI, general off-the-ball patterns of play are not that important. And given the online world is where the MTX revenue comes from, I don't think a game catered to people who prefer a game with more attention to realism is as profitable.

The best thing for football games in general would be a comprehensive ban on lootboxes, say at the EU level at least. Only then would players who don't play myClub again become viable customers you have to spend a lot of time and money trying to satisfy.
 
Make it billions,not millions in revenue for (FUT).
Konami sees free money,why wouldn't they?
Obviously a perfect football SIM would be amazing,but we're the minority here.

Be smart, separate it (the game) for both like it's done on 2k.
A brutal micro transaction,a arcadish fun career,and a fantastic offline/online SIM.
How hard can it be?
 
Absolute feeding frenzy online about this beta! Still haven't gotten round to downloading it. I've realised I kinda don't care as there's not much in it for me. And I'm still to cynical about a so-called finished product. Technically, by still patching "improvements" into a game update, they still haven't finished PES 2020.
 
Of course it's subjective - and yes, above all I agree about the ban on lootboxes. I just think Konami are mad to think they can compete with FIFA in this way.
 
robsk said:
Of course it's subjective - and yes, above all I agree about the ban on lootboxes. I just think Konami are mad to think they can compete with FIFA in this way.
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They cant. They never could.
If the scraps they are getting is enough for them - grand, whatever makes them happy.

But I honestly believe they are missing out here..
Yo Konami ninjas - if you are hiding in the bushes - listen up!

Make two modes online. MyClub, or whatever you have there and Football Sim. There are entire leagues of people online, who play full manual. Make a separate mode for them, tournaments on FUMA, prices. Singles, doubles, 11v11.
Shit - I never watched a single eSport tournament but id watch ones on FUMA.

MyClub - force people to grind a little. Dont give them 3 different Beckhams at the start. No wonder people are complaining that there's nothing to do if they are starting off with team from an End-Game. Let them compete not only for players, but also cosmetics - shoes, balls, training ground, stadium upgrades - people love this shit.

Master League could use similar idea. Give people an option to connect online, using their Master League team to compete with others in online tournaments if they choose to do so (again - Normal Mode and Fuma)
Again - prices could be cosmetics that you could use in your Master League.
It could all be nicely merged into the Master League, where you would get notifications of incoming tournaments and updates from the ones you participated..
And who knows - maybe this little window would push few more people into playing online. People who never play online.

Jesus, its really not that difficult to come up with few ideas, instead of milking the same, old and tired cow..
 
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