eFootball (All Platforms)

meant0ne said:
well done on completely ignoring the question. Any data to back up that assertion?
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In case it has escaped Your attention it is an expressed opinion, so hard factual evidence is not required.

However here is a bit of hard evidence to satisfy Your curiosity, its still stuck at No.19 in the list of STEAM worst games of all time, with a huge 48318 votes, if that helps.

Not so much dying but never really taking off in the way that it was expected to.

https://steam250.com/bottom100
 
https://www.eurogamer.net/konami-dramatically-cuts-financial-forecast

After reading this article from Eurogamer, and several others, I am beginning to think Efootball is NEVER EVER going to match the expectations we set for them. It's not even a question of whether they are going to release offline modes, but rather are they are going to be enjoyable to play. We have watched the development cycle of this game since July of last year and it's been a continuous stream of shit and lols. I am at the point where I don't care it comes out tomorrow because they way they have handled this game doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence that they will knock it out the park with offline modes. Just look at how fucking dreadful playing dream team has become. It's so fucking boring. Seriously, I honestly don't know how someone can play a game like this for hours. I'm not talking about one off game with your friends. I can understand that, and I can see how fun that can be, but those who play it for hours and hours, how?

Anyway, the article talks about Coinami's revenue being down for what they projected, but not by much. Keep in mind, Coinami have other sources of revenue that are doing just fine. There is no reason for them to panic because they still make some money from their shitty mobile games and card packs. Don't forget, efootball mobile is still thing. They don't cost as much to make, and they're getting a decent amount of revenue from it. Maybe not as much as they projected, but enough to satisfy management.

Years and years of mismanagement and poor decision making have brought them here. They don't have it in their locker anymore to make AAA games. If they had invested wisely, while maintaining quality assurance for their IPS, didn't squander relationships with a certain developer, perhaps thing wouldn't have turned out this way. This isn't just a Coinami thing. This happening throughout the entire gaming industry.

You also have to consider the fact that their reputation is still in the shits with the wider gaming community as we speak. No one is checking for Coinami like they were 7 to 10 years ago. We also haven't forgotten their treatment of Kojima and how badly they squandered the Silent Hills PT game. It's similar to Ubisoft and how their open world games have become so fucking boring as of late. They're lazy and don't know how to innovate and create new things for their franchises. Ubisoft have gone the F2P route because it's a safer revenue stream, but their most of their F2P games suck lol. So If you're a fan of the SH 2 remake, or worse, this game, please temper your expectations.
 
I took a look at Sensor Tower to see their app performance and at least in the Major markets they are trailing way behind other Football titles on Mobile, namely Top Eleven and Fifa Mobile. In some they are even not in the Top 10 Grossing Football games. So their App performance on Mobile is only okayish. Not bad and still.fine on Mobile but compared to the competition they are behind on Mobile and on Console it is pretty clear that they are behind Fifa, for that you don't even need to have an account for Analytics tools.
 
Yes which means its irrelevant to the question I asked.
superleeds1 said:
In case it has escaped Your attention it is an expressed opinion, so hard factual evidence is not required.

However here is a bit of hard evidence to satisfy Your curiosity, its still stuck at No.19 in the list of STEAM worst games of all time, with a huge 48318 votes, if that helps.

Not so much dying but never really taking off in the way that it was expected to.

https://steam250.com/bottom100
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My question was can anyone provide hard evidence the game is dying. You provide evidence it is 19th on the worst Steam releases of all time, completely irrelevant when the steam player numbers are growing. I hope this isn't interpreted as me defending the game (I can't stand it). I just don't see any data backing up the assertions being made and some poorly researched articles which don't prove anything won't sway me.

We don't even know if efootball is under performing as Konami don't specify which products have underperformed. Also the context of 2022 being their most profitable year ever might have led to them over estimating this years growth. A lot of people jumping to conclusions with very little info.
 
pesfooty29 said:
Anyway, the article talks about Coinami's revenue being down for what they projected, but not by much. Keep in mind, Coinami have other sources of revenue that are doing just fine.
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Exactly this! Still made an absolute fortune and for all we know efootball is just a side hustle compared to other arms of the business. Maybe they really don't have ambition for the game and that's all it is.
 
meant0ne said:
Yes which means its irrelevant to the question I asked.

My question was can anyone provide hard evidence the game is dying. You provide evidence it is 19th on the worst Steam releases of all time, completely irrelevant when the steam player numbers are growing. I hope this isn't interpreted as me defending the game (I can't stand it). I just don't see any data backing up the assertions being made and some poorly researched articles which don't prove anything won't sway me.

We don't even know if efootball is under performing as Konami don't specify which products have underperformed. Also the context of 2022 being their most profitable year ever might have led to them over estimating this years growth. A lot of people jumping to conclusions with very little info.
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I can't share the exact Sensor Tower data but at least having seen it I definitely would say they are underperforming on Mobile compared to some of the other Football Titles, especially considering the Licensing costs they have. Top Eleven doesn't have any licenses and is in front of them in most markets regarding revenue.

Also the biggest markets for Efootball on Mobile are mostly markets who aren't big spenders on Mobile and more into ads monetisation.
 
Jay-Jay 10 said:
I can't share the exact Sensor Tower data but at least having seen it I definitely would say they are underperforming on Mobile compared to some of the other Football Titles, especially considering the Licensing costs they have. Top Eleven doesn't have any licenses and is in front of them in most markets regarding revenue.

Also the biggest markets for Efootball on Mobile are mostly markets who aren't big spenders on Mobile and more into ads monetisation
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I'll take your word for it, the mobile games market is alien to me. Even if it is underperforming compared to similar games it could still be turning a tidy profit for Konami. By all accounts the team working on it is tiny and it might be cost effective to just keep it going as it is. People act like all the players will leave at the same time when in reality it's a constant churn of new players coming and fed up ones leaving and this is exactly what they want. One born every minute.
 
I think their Day7 retention is probably fine. They have a kind of Season Pass with Free stuff, daily rewards and the events should be enough to have at least a Day 7 retention of 20 to 25% more interesting it would be what their Payer Conversion and LTV of players is. You can see they are aggressively monetising with free coin giveaways that hopefully leads to people spending also on the other available player cards in those weekly deals.

Problem is since events are repeating and even their Division system isn't great, I think long term there isn't enough to keep players being invested and also still spending, so I am not even sure how many players are reaching the acquisition cost.

They have a very aggressive and heavy first 30 days monetisation way more aggressive than other games in the same space. Which usually is a sign that they burn through players way faster. Which usually means long term that will cause problems for them.
 
meant0ne said:
I'll take your word for it, the mobile games market is alien to me. Even if it is underperforming compared to similar games it could still be turning a tidy profit for Konami. By all accounts the team working on it is tiny and it might be cost effective to just keep it going as it is. People act like all the players will leave at the same time when in reality it's a constant churn of new players coming and fed up ones leaving and this is exactly what they want. One born every minute.
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Nobody will be able to give you hard evidence, same way you cant provide any hard evidence that game is doing well and they are happy with it.

But Id like you to consider a scenario where you decide to release a low budget shite game, minimum effort, maximum profits.
And from the get go you plan to make it cross platform - PC/Consoles/Mobile.
Each version requires a team to manage the code.
Now - its estimated that there is about 2-3M active players on mobiles.
Mobiles also offer extra money from Ads.
Your game on any other platform is received very poorly and the player count is low.
What do you do? Will you keep it on life support forever, investing into patches, content, offline?
Or - would you consider the only reasonable solution - axe all platforms and just focus on the mobile?
Minimum effort - maximum profit, right?

This is why I think the game is dying.
It wont take long before Konami decides to focus fully on mobile market.
Which doesnt mean they wont make profit out of it. They will be happy.

But their game is simply not good enough for PC and next gen consoles. And they know it.
 
The most annoying fact is that they can lie to us, change their minds about offline modes, focus on making money, and if it doesn't work out... they will not be punished, they do not lose anything, because if they want, at any time they can return to the old model, from before eFootball, and we will return like a beaten wife to an alcoholic husband.
 
The most important thing in this kind of Live Service/Free to Play/ Pay to win/ of games is the content and modes, releasing a Mbappé card every week with a different background... it's not content. You can't just rely on the gambling nature of gamers to make money, that is why more and more games for the last months that are Live Service are failing, with many as Marvel Adventures, Apex Legends and Battlefield mobile games closing and terminating.




At the moment, the only platform that has any figures for active players is Steam, and let's look at the numbers there and do some basic arithmetic. eFootball has averaged 3,300 active players per month over its lifetime. Yes, the first months were very bad, they bring the number down a lot, and yes in the last months there are more active players, around 5-6000 AP, but in comparison,
PES 2021 during its entire life 10.2020 - 08.2022 has an average of 7800 active players per month, but here too to be fair we have to say that the last year, or for the last 8 months of the game lowers the figure significantly, there are about 3000 active players per month, while in the rest of the time in 2021 almost the whole year, the game had 10000 players.

Long story short, they are killing/removing all PES games from digital stores, just to push people to your new stupid eFootball mini-game, so let's see the numbers again, you have an average of 3300 AP (free game) vs 7800 AP (paid game).To me, this is a spectacular failure.

Even with simple arithmetic and assumptions, we can come up with some figures for the money they eventually make. for this purpose, to make things look better for Konami, let's ignore the first months of the game, the numbers are really bad there, and take only the last year.
As we said this has an average of 5000 active people per month, from this 5000 AP, lest say 10% invest 10 euros every month for coins, That's 5,000 € per month, which makes 60,000 € per year from Steam.

Let's say that eFootball is ten times bigger for consoles that would mean that Konami makes ten times more money there, which would be around 600,000 € per year... these are grossly insufficient if you ask me! Server maintenance alone will eat up a large portion of that money, not to mention the team working on the game, marketing, license, and the percentage they have to pay to the digital market platforms and Epic Games for the engine.

Yes, this is just speculation on my part and not including the mobile version, unless it is twice or 3 times bigger than the console version, and they have 1,000.000 active players, which makes 100,000 € PM, its around 1.2 mil € per year, but let's say that Konami at best makes an average of 2 million € per year from ALL platforms, IN BEST CASE from eFootball, I don't think it will be enough... they need at least ten times more to justify the existence of the game, ЕА might make two billion in the last year just from FIFA...

I could be wrong of course. There may be more deluded people who throw away 100-1000 euros for coins every month. But I personally doubt it, the people who did this are mostly content creators or streamers.


Now the big question is... was it worth it Konami!? Was it worth killing the entire series, the entire legacy that was built over 25 years, and losing the trust and respect of both your fans and everyone in the industry!? .. of course, this is a rhetorical question! We all know the answer.

I don't think the question "Is eFootball dying" is correct. Rather, the question should be, "when"?
 
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Those games (service games) will die for sure.

Now, it doesn't mean that the company can't got the ability for a rebound.
For that, they need to fire the virus of the project : the chief in development.
Or like i said but it's utopic : another company who wants to create a football game but don't know jack how to start.
The PES production/Efootball section is one sector of Konami. If they really don't care and lost money with it... Why not.

Now the guys in charge won't left the boat as it's not in japanese mentality. They follow order, mark of respect from people who own a higher status.
I just got hard to see litterally dying a 20+ years old games without a come back. A Come back sells a lot.
I'm pretty convinced that one day or another, the "PES" well known name and game will make a come back. same as the previous post the question is "when".

it's just believing like people have faith on something they don't have proof, nothing more so there's a reason but it's still personal.
I believe they will die, and ressurect in one way or another. They survived 20 years, even on PS2 era Fifa was selling more games so... It's a critical success.

I truely believe than the devs themselve are talented when i see some past game, but too restricted by higher autority order. If someone gives to those devs freedom, aswell as the other "service good game (before)", then they can change what's next. I believe they got at least one year of freedom for the Season update, so if they got more year it could be a really good football game. Simple to play, hard to master like PES always been.
 
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༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Even with simple arithmetic and assumptions
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You raise some interesting points. I just find a few assumptions too many in this argument.

The videos you share is by a guy who openly admits he hates the live service model and he is painting a very one sided picture of the market. So a bunch of live service games failed, so what? At the same time games like Genshin Impact, Warzone, Fortnite and plenty more were doing just fine, raking in incredible $$$.

This is still an emerging model on console and PC, rather than coming to it's end I feel we're more in it's infancy. EA are planning on adopting this model, do you think their business analysts are idiots who are throwing a billion dollar product in to a dying market?

I'd suggest they feel they can do it right ala Epic Games and Ubisoft and make even more money than they did with FIFA. So maybe Konami really are in trouble and the low effort game model won't fly on console/PC. Once EA enter the frame with their unlimited budget the efootball player base could shrink to a untenable number and as Emroth said they could decide to switch to mobile only. I see that being a possibility.
 
meant0ne said:
So maybe Konami really are in trouble and the low effort game model won't fly on console/PC. Once EA enter the frame with their unlimited budget the efootball player base could shrink to a untenable number and as Emroth said they could decide to switch to mobile only. I see that being a possibility.
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I can see that happening. My only issue is people are suggesting that this may force them to see the error in their ways, and suddenly Coinami will decide to make a full football game for consoles/pc, and I'm sorry, but that's simply is not going to happen. They have made it clear what they wanted this football game to look like. They made it clear during the demo last year. They made it clear during V1.0, and they still intend on staying the course today. This was a business decision, and by all indications, while not what they projected, it's doing ok for them according to their bosses. Of course this model isn't sustainable, but I don't think they give a rat's ass because they have other IPs that are more worthy than PES/Efootball. If Efootball was as big as Silent Hill, then perhaps they would have put more of an effort into it. They certainly wouldn't have released it in this state.
 
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I still believe that coming from here or there, there will be a good football game, alternative to Fifa that will be out one day.
That sports as lost popularity but it still too popular. When i don't know... We got to wait almost 10 fucking year for a boxing games, and i see Tennis games that will come back too. Those two where like classic and tons of it on every console.

Like after Street Fighter, VS game exploded from every side and it became a standard. That the most Esports balanced and interesting games to follow.
Now about football games ISS Pro have set the base of "logic football", and that style as became a standard, a classic. I believe that standard and classic never really die and make their come back one day or another. The issue is also "When".

I don't count on Konami through, they became the jealous about Fifa money guy. Before they were doing business like every company, not they lost their soul. Even more than EA who at least sold a full game each year.
 
TheWolf said:
What do eFootball and a toaster oven have in common?









Neither of them let me play Master League.






(I'll get me coat...)
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jensen-ackles-not-amused.gif
 
pesfooty29 said:
https://www.eurogamer.net/konami-dramatically-cuts-financial-forecast

After reading this article from Eurogamer, and several others, I am beginning to think Efootball is NEVER EVER going to match the expectations we set for them. It's not even a question of whether they are going to release offline modes, but rather are they are going to be enjoyable to play. We have watched the development cycle of this game since July of last year and it's been a continuous stream of shit and lols. I am at the point where I don't care it comes out tomorrow because they way they have handled this game doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence that they will knock it out the park with offline modes.
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Judging by their unimaginative dream team content and what they provided for the vs AI World Cup event, my guess is that ML will be a 5-6 match event mode.

Stage 1: Score 1 goal in 3 matches
Stage 2: Earn 3pts from 3 matches
Stage 3: Earn 5 pts from 3 matches

Congratulations, you have won the league + 50 coins!

Bonus match unlocked: Win the bonus match to become League Cup Champions!

Transfer market NOW OPEN! 100 coins per transfer.
Next season available in 6 days 23 hrs.

MML - Mobile Master League

PS. This is not a joke post.
 
Dscru said:
Judging by their unimaginative dream team content and what they provided for the vs AI World Cup event, my guess is that ML will be a 5-6 match event mode.

Stage 1: Score 1 goal in 3 matches
Stage 2: Earn 3pts from 3 matches
Stage 3: Earn 5 pts from 3 matches

Congratulations, you have won the league + 50 coins!

Bonus match unlocked: Win the bonus match to become League Cup Champions!

Transfer market NOW OPEN! 100 coins per transfer.
Next season available in 6 days 23 hrs.

MML - Mobile Master League

PS. This is not a joke post.
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Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think I have ever heard them say ML will be exclusively a dlc. They said it will come out, but they haven't specified exactly how it would look. It could be another online AI or PVP thing.

I funny as your post is, I can see them doing this and releasing a bunch of dlc content unrelated to offline modes. DLC kits, boots, etc.
 
pesfooty29 said:
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think I have ever heard them say ML will be exclusively a dlc. They said it will come out, but they haven't specified exactly how it would look. It could be another online AI or PVP thing.

I funny as your post is, I can see them doing this and releasing a bunch of dlc content unrelated to offline modes. DLC kits, boots, etc.
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༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
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They also said "the final result was even more impressive than we had originally conceived" 🥴

If or when they do plan to release offline modes this year or next year, it won't be anything close to what had hoped for. It just doesn't fit with their business model. This game's core selling point is online dream team, coins and card packs.
 
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