eFootball (All Platforms)

[HeWillKnockFourTimes]

Oh it was ridiculous. Basically in Master League all of your players started in black boots and you had to unlock boots as you progressed and each pair of boots had different boosts. Like a Nike Mercurial Vapor would increase the speed of the player you give them to, or a Adidas Predator would improve their tackling etc. They tried to make it into an RPG and they only changed it after release to make it optional due to the backlash and it never appeared again in PES 2014 onwards.

Adam Bhatti didn't work for Konami at that point but he still got insider info as he worked at Ubisoft. He actually broke an embargo to tell us all about their plans and whipped everyone up into taking a stand against it and made Konami change it.

That's why him now becoming a Konami shill is a kick in the teeth to me. Before he became the hype man with empty promises, he fought for us fans.

That sounds ridiculous. I hope eFootball don't use any kind stuff like that, with paid credit or anything. It must be hard working for Konami in that way, Some of the language that SOME use against people like Adam is far too much & abusive.

 

[HeWillKnockFourTimes]

I guess he had more influence before working at Konami, maybe because that was a time when they still wanted to understand what was going wrong compared to now that he is there at Konami. Actually i think Konami management put him in a spot so that he can never interfere with €football development anymore.

I predict, give them a couple of years and Bhatti will leave Konami, just like already happened with many people that should have been our spokesmen to the devs.

Didn't at one point Konami launch a studio for PES in Europe or the UK to try and make the game more....

 

[Ameppe]

Didn't at one point Konami launch a studio for PES in Europe or the UK to try and make the game more....

Completely failed experiment, considering everyone left. Probably they closed it. Konami developers are so stubborn that the only way to make Pes more modern would have been to give its development to a western dev studio.

 

[Emroth]

sounds ridiculous

It was and it wasnt.
I hated the idea and my initial response was pure hatred.
I grew to like the feature tho. There was a certain charm in making a decision which player to boost which way.
I was swapping shoes between players, making all sorts of combinations.
Along with very immersive Master League from Pes13 - it created a very deep and engaging package, that kept me occupied for many seasons.
Dont get me wrong - I wouldnt like magic shoes to ever come back, but comparing to the horrible and flat Master Leagues we had last couple of years - id take the magic shoes in a heartbeat.

 

[HeWillKnockFourTimes]

It was and it wasnt.
I hated the idea and my initial response was pure hatred.
I grew to like the feature tho. There was a certain charm in making a decision which player to boost which way.
I was swapping shoes between players, making all sorts of combinations.
Along with very immersive Master League from Pes13 - it created a very deep and engaging package, that kept me occupied for many seasons.
Dont get me wrong - I wouldnt like magic shoes to ever come back, but comparing to the horrible and flat Master Leagues we had last couple of years - id take the magic shoes in a heartbeat.

As someone who only went back to PES from 16, what was special about the ML in 2013?

 

[etb10dmk]

Completely failed experiment, considering everyone left. Probably they closed it. Konami developers are so stubborn that the only way to make Pes more modern would have been to give its development to a western dev studio.

They are not stubborn, this new game as it stands right now they want just to use it as a cash machine and nothing else, for that reason they've tested the water with PES + eFootball and myClub coins to see the backlash. There wasn't any in that monetization regard so they just made directly a big step instead of small ones. Their quality was lowered long ago, and videogame it's just a word that they don't use anymore in their business starting from 2015.

 

[Ameppe]

They are not stubborn, this new game as it stands right now they want just to use it as a cash machine and nothing else, for that reason they've tested the water with PES + eFootball and myClub coins to see the backlash. There wasn't any in that monetization regard so they just made directly a big step instead of small ones. Their quality was lowered long ago, and videogame it's just a word that they don't use anymore in their business starting from 2015.

I was more talking about the first Ps4 years, around Pes 2014 time. They wanted to make the game more modern and yet they failed.

 

[Emroth]

As someone who only went back to PES from 16, what was special about the ML in 2013?

https://pesmastery.com/pes-master-league/

Along with Stadium Creator, great AI and stats that mattered - it was a vastly different experience to what we have now.
Magic boots, boosting speed by 5 points where making huge difference. Now if you have player with speed 75 and another with 80 - there is no difference between them at all.
Back then, when you started Master League with default team of players with OVR around 60 - if you could afford to buy a player with OVR70 the following season - you could clearly feel his impact on the team.

 

[etb10dmk]

I was more talking about the first Ps4 years, around Pes 2014 time. They wanted to make the game more modern and yet they failed.

Totally agree. Tho they could make it modern without adding that nasty "coins store" and focus on both experiences. Every year I was more and more frustrated about those popups that showed me at the beggining of the main menu about "look at those legends", "look at that", "free coins for holyday and black balls" and all that stuff knowing I want to enter just to have a cool offline experience. What the heck are doing those cards news on my main menu? I'm not a poker guy... not to mention that the online check marker was searching all the time when I was navigating through menus...

 

[vialli82]

(Big Edited/Re-writed)

About 2013 version, didn't liked that game that much at the time, and now. The physical engine was totally outdated, PS2.5 and it was too much year with it, i really gotted enough of that engine. 2008-2010, then some some algorithms on PES 2011 were added, i remember with 16 directions instead of 8/the dualshock 3 even with the normal 4 directionnal tooked in account 16 directions, that was one special stuff of their directionnal cross. But was better to play with the analog. Now i feel it less, weirdly, when i relaunch the game, it doesn't bother me like that time : but others things does, many others things.

That time physics was resumed by 10% physics, 90% stats. Stats maked the game, no difference if you putted 150kg or 50 kg on the pitch.
Now for example a player with 200 meters will push the ball longer because he gots longer legs, i tried on test, no change at all regarding of of that.
Or deceleration > same that's why i talk about KG influences. Now try to decelerate with a fast but big player. Stats matters, but hare handled differently due to physics who enter in the equation.
In fact, to make a player pushing longer the ball : you should've decreased both Dribbling Speed and dribbling precision, and increase Speed and Explosive power... Or something weird like that. Not interested anymore but you can try in Training sessions. When i play retro, it's FIFA and PES 11, even PES 2010 (who keeped the same system as PES PS2, with better graphics) and PES 1-3-5-6. Also Fifa 14. But no, PES 2013 i just tried with your advices : yes it's beautiful, it's cool, graphics and all, but on the pitch... And shooting was floaty and players to light (not on PES 2011 > To me the closest version regarding overall feeling to PES 5. Heavy shoot and feeling of weight for players. Globally a better feeling, but perhaps a bit less tactical and more phyisically balanced)

So no. Wasn't that better, only off the pitch if you remove magic boots of course/you can with PESEDIT patch. And no one liked that boots boots at the time, it was severely criticised. First time i read it was "fun".
PES 2013 is overrated here, i tried and retried it... No way, there's too much space, bad keepers, too uneffective to defend physically.

But yes we could've out of the pitch making tons of stuffs : even better than stadium creator to me was face importing faces. Well you gotted to make it match with the skin color and also correct face side (Ibra nose for example) but it was a big gain of time.

To me it was Fifa all over the place, even the 13, but i liked PES 2011, more feeling of inertia, better overall defense. So season 2010-11 was a good year for me, as FIFA 11 was my favorite Fifa and PES 2011 my favorite on PS3 era.

 

[PRO_TOO]

It was and it wasnt.
I hated the idea and my initial response was pure hatred.
I grew to like the feature tho. There was a certain charm in making a decision which player to boost which way.
I was swapping shoes between players, making all sorts of combinations.
Along with very immersive Master League from Pes13 - it created a very deep and engaging package, that kept me occupied for many seasons.
Dont get me wrong - I wouldnt like magic shoes to ever come back, but comparing to the horrible and flat Master Leagues we had last couple of years - id take the magic shoes in a heartbeat.

makes me remember your paladin comment. i think it fits here as well.
i'm just not a fan of any form of artificial attribute boosting!
may it come in training sessions, where i've worked for it, be it a streak from a striker that puts him in good form for a while... thats all good to me because it represents real football. you get me.

 

[vialli82]

That was rubbish, but now it's cool. I'm waiting for PES 2021 to be prized the way it should one day.
But on Wearepes, French community were i talked a lot about PES at the time, it was an abominations, just the fact you can't remove it...
People's wanted realistics stuffs, not magical, not RPG stuffs in fact. It's a football game, and i don't thing a pair of boots makes you +2 faster lol.

Also at the time, people was all about "why online is so bad? servers and system looks like nothing. Online is what we wants to play, making tournament between us / not trolls players of course"
Online was a priority that makes a lot of people switch to Fifa. PES played offline because no other choice in fact, not because it was a better game offline with more feature, to be honest. But now, i'm used to play PES offline. I want to have a good challenge to make it possible, and at least "logicals" mode : i don't ask the moon, they can be more simple as they are now, i don't really care.
They fault in fact if they maked it an "offline game" for the olders like us : we didn't really got the choice and we overally liked to switch between the two. One online on divisions mode with a certain adrenaline, the other trying stuffs, chilling and without being on nerve as AI isn't trolling 1 time on 4, playing pass and pass and pass during 45 / 6 minutes when it was 1-0 (and it was pretty hard to take the ball again, i talk about fifa)

 

[Ameppe]

Have you noticed that people, even in UK, started buying Pes 2021 again, like it's some sort of last of its kind?

I haven't seen a Pes game in top 20 since a long time.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...nt-prevent-july-sales-slump-uk-monthly-charts

 

[Emroth]

That was rubbish, but now it's cool. I'm waiting for PES 2021 to be prized the way it should one day

God, I merely said I grew to enjoy it after a while and it was fun FOR ME.
I also said I wouldnt like anything like this to come back, but even with magic shoes - Master League from Pes13 was miles ahead of Pes21.

...and if you wait for Pes21 to be prized - you'll be waiting a very long time.
Most shallow AI in any Pes title ever. And time is not going to change that.
User Vs User gameplay has killed offline immersion.
You are very fast to criticise Fifa for their 1v1 and AI team mates just standing by, but the truth is - Pes is exactly the same. Last 3 years at least (after Pes18) they only focused on User Vs User gameplay, recreating how it FEELS to play as football stars, while completely abandoning how the star players should behave while being controlled by AI.
As a result - every team plays the same and every player plays the same. AI individuality, once the strongest point of PES - is long gone and forgotten.
If you think that these games will ever be remembered the way older Pes games are - you're in for a surprise.

 

[janguv]

The Pay to Win as concept on the internet as a whole, you will find it in many places, not officially as a word definition in dictionary if you alude to that, but as a collection of elements that combined create that p2w state and I quote from one website:

"Pay to Win​

PTW is used in gaming with the meaning "Pay to Win" to refer to games that allow players to purchase items or abilities (e.g., more powerful weapons, additional health points) that give them an advantage in the game, either over other players or NPCs (Non-Player Characters).

P2W is a very controversial aspect of gaming, especially in MP (Multiplayer) games. Many players strongly object to people being able to pay to trump their own hard-earned experience or superior skills." (source: cyberdefinitions.com)

Comparing it to myClub fits perfectly (it's not about my "narative", It's not about naration, I just explain it objectively) part by part: "allow players to purchase items or abilities" ( in this case spending coins on cards (ITEMS) in gambling methods purchased with real money that if converted into XP can ENHANCE the stats of other players from the team (ABILITIES) and the more players you get more you can convert and buff the stats; can purchase better managers (TEAM STATS BOOSTS) from the getgo, contracts renewal & refresh stamina in game plan, tho i don't remember about those position, skill and xp trainers if they can be purchased with coins). You can have some of those by playing the game after a time sure, but so in FIFA (even if the grinding is way more tedious), so in NBA2K, and mostly in every live service mode. Those things if you have them from the start gives you a strict advantage during the gameplay even if you are good at the game or not, and even if you don't take much time to grind. It's the p2w very shy included and bad implemented by Konami? YES, it is, but that was just to test their own water for what's to come in the new eFootball, a casino royale simulation game with football elements in it.

In other hand, the situation about p2w is arbitrary? Yes, could be, but those nasty things are there implemented even if their "generosity" rewards the user with login bonuses, and btw those rewards are there just to make specific users to enter and continue addicted to that mode during the entire season. About those broken team stars filters that you mention, well most of the live service games have those nowadays, in most of them are working as intended, but not in this particular case...

In the end I guess you are more of an "arbitrary" person enjoying or not myClub and that's fine, but I'll not repeat myself again on things that are obvious about this game, things objectively pointed out during the years also by other people about the fairness, and because of this entire online myClub "generosity" now ironicaly we have the "f2p" eFootball... Every effect has its own cause...

I don't think, in all this text, you really substantiated your original point. Which was: that if a game has P2W elements at the start of its lifecycle, it is a P2W game for the whole of its lifecycle. Which is still, I think, transparently wrong.

As for your specific points:

• Yes, you can convert existing players into XP boosts for the other players. Though the actual stat changes upon applying the boosts are really very minimal. That said, I recently had 500k GP in the account, all given away freely, and bought a load of agents to apply to the players who needed stat boosts and upgraded every single silver and bronze "starlet" in my squad (about 30 players) to max level. They also hand out XP boosts for free daily for periods of 7-21 days for promotional tie-ins throughout the year, and you can get 4-6 of the boosters through the free offline competition (which is so easy it's absurd and dull).
• I wouldn't classify a manager as a "team stat boost" – the only thing it does (aside from a tactical change) is lift the cap on the player "cost" allowed in the team. That said, you get given a ton of the manager "boost" chips for free by doing their challenges. Again, I can field a team with a 4k strength if I want, without having to have spent money on a manager or a player. And I could have done that within a month of owning the game.
• Position, skill, XP trainers, as you said – they're not purchasable with cash. Only with the "eFootball points" currency they introduced this year, surely soon to be properly monetised.

Certain modes (like co-op) or tournaments within some modes, and probably eSports comps can't have those team strength filters applied so those are still fully pay to win.

Also the team strength only tells half the story - if you have all the best players on "A" form/condition for the current week on up arrows they get boosted by what seems like 10+ in all attributes and players on low form/arrows will get downgraded.

You could have a team the game defines as the same (or even higher) strength than the opponent in stars/attributes but actually be at a big disadvantage after form/condition boosts which reward the people who constantly buy/collect cards to have all the best players available on A form for the week. This is a pay to win factor at any team strength filter level.

Also the way you can level players up by feeding them duplicates of themselves again rewards people constantly buying packs.

I think these are better counterpoints to what I've been saying. Yeah, form is a factor – 10+ points to individual ability stats strikes me as too much though. In any case, they've given me countless free legends this year and they're always on B form. I take your point that the A form players end up being super OP, and that this is why they lock those TOTW players behind the coin paywalls.

So it definitely introduces a P2W element for those modes where there's no team strength filter. For the competitions and matchday stuff – honestly, it's so horrid, I wonder why anyone plays them. Partly because of the team-strength issues, but also no pass assist filter or connection filter. It's frankly the worst gameplay experience in the entire game!

For co-op, yeah it's a big shame there are no filters here either. I only ever play it FUMA with my mate (also FUMA), and we have a squad of maxxed out silvers and bronzes. We still therefore give up a huge form and stat advantage to the teams with 100+ TOTW etc. Not to mention they're all on PA2 or PA3 as well. But even so, we win a fair few of our matches. There's players on there who have probably spent a good amount of money but it doesn't help them because they're so bad at the game.

That said, I do agree these are P2W elements. So perhaps re myClub it is safer to say: it's a game mode that itself has subsidiary modes, and some of them are more affected by P2W elements than others. There's a way of playing the game mode, though, where you are never really at a meaningful disadvantage if you never spend any money on it.

Finally, nobody should be playing this mode anyway though because it's full of toxic children and is absolute wank

 

[vialli82]

I was talkin for me too lol, and said i wasn't alone, that all. No prob if you enjoyed, sorry to said it's shitty but that's what i think and i didn't thinked it may offense someone. Sorry again @Emroth

How did you know that? All game was shit at their time. PES 2021 is to me the best PES, in terms of physicality, animations, variety, we got on PS4. That's all. I don't see a better game sincerely. But it's still too fresh, and also too similar to PES 2020.
Like PES 2013 was shit at the time. So in 5-7 years i believe, yes it will be praized. AI? I don't have issue the way i play, you like PES 2016 so... We can see we see things totally differently and we got different taste, let's admit it.
And not at all all players plays the same, i feel the biggest difference in terms of stats since they launched Fox. No joke. I couldn't pass a player because i got 75 in speed. He was too much "keep the ball" based stats. I changed with a 81 and it changed my flank, i finally could've overlap him, i remind it very well as it's from two weeks ago more or less.

You didn't liked it so you perphaps didn't played it that much perhaps like me with PES 2013, i don't deny it that i didn't pushed the button a long time as the feeling was too "light" to me. But what you're saying is wrong. You remember me the guy who said "there's not 360 degree in PES". I showed him a test where i could go and turn on every degree i wanted. I still got the video i think lol. He denied and say "that's not what i mean by 360 degree" then what is it? He was talking about something else.
But i don't try to proof anymore, i don't have time anymore for testing games and send vids like before. But one time i will, just to prove there difference between 75 and 80 on speed or whatever stat.

Sorry but I don't found AI that shitty. Referee decision, yes, but i can do with it better than the overall feeling of PES 2013.

(i've edited)

 

[janguv]

I love how they are trying to spin the gutted control system as a positive. I'm sure it has nothing to do with simplifying the game for kids/mobile users and /or sheer incompetence leading to lacking the time necessary to implement advanced controls into the mobile engine that eFootball is based on.

Yeah I thought that bit was hilarious... "allows players to focus". What? Because the control scheme was so complicated before? Fuck off! What next – "we decided to get rid of a modifier button for lobbed balls, allowing players to seamlessly choose the direction and power of the pass instead". Every time Kimura does an interview, there is something else groan-inducing.

Road to Goat? I'm sorry, this just seems like fake news to me, there's no way they would call a game mode that, it's just too ridiculous...

also Konami:

• International Superstar Soccer Pro
• World Soccer: Winning Eleven '97
• eFootball Pro Evolution Soccer 2019
• eFootball

They're not great with naming conventions

 

[Madmac79]

It was and it wasnt.
I hated the idea and my initial response was pure hatred.
I grew to like the feature tho. There was a certain charm in making a decision which player to boost which way.
I was swapping shoes between players, making all sorts of combinations.
Along with very immersive Master League from Pes13 - it created a very deep and engaging package, that kept me occupied for many seasons.
Dont get me wrong - I wouldnt like magic shoes to ever come back, but comparing to the horrible and flat Master Leagues we had last couple of years - id take the magic shoes in a heartbeat.

I experienced more or less the same with the boots thing. I was livid at the times, but then didn't mind that much when the actual game was out.
I also recently replayed a 2013 ML for 5-6 seasons and never touched the boots thing, didn't feel like I missed anything from the experience.. so it was kinda ignorable too ihmo.

Not that, if I could compose my ideal career mode, I would ever pick magic boots or buayable boosts either.. but 2014 onwards ML was so lifeless and dull that I'd make the exchange without thinking a second as well lol.

 

[etb10dmk]

God, I merely said I grew to enjoy it after a while and it was fun FOR ME.
I also said I wouldnt like anything like this to come back, but even with magic shoes - Master League from Pes13 was miles ahead of Pes21.

...and if you wait for Pes21 to be prized - you'll be waiting a very long time.
Most shallow AI in any Pes title ever. And time is not going to change that.
User Vs User gameplay has killed offline immersion.
You are very fast to criticise Fifa for their 1v1 and AI team mates just standing by, but the truth is - Pes is exactly the same. Last 3 years at least (after Pes18) they only focused on User Vs User gameplay, recreating how it FEELS to play as football stars, while completely abandoning how the star players should behave while being controlled by AI.
As a result - every team plays the same and every player plays the same. AI individuality, once the strongest point of PES - is long gone and forgotten.
If you think that these games will ever be remembered the way older Pes games are - you're in for a surprise.

An the truth about it was that the game had elements like Player ID, Full Control and Proactive AI, making various players, teams and situations on the pitch to be really unique... for that reason that game is the most supported until now along PES 6...

PES 2021 without taking in count the good ball physics has an horrendous 1 vs 1 defending where the tackle all the time looks the same, the falling animations are atrocious in 1 vs 1 especially on contact, referee decisions are ridiculous giving fault just for a little touch, where penalties doesn't exist at all even if you do a full breaking bones sliding tackle in the box to the AI and vice versa... Defending animations and decisions in PES 2021 are on its knees !!! And the same applies to previous full released versions like 2019 and 2020. The demo of PES 2020 was another story tho...

 

[vialli82]

also Konami:

• International Superstar Soccer Pro
• World Soccer: Winning Eleven '97
• eFootball Pro Evolution Soccer 2019
• eFootball

They're not great with naming conventions

Yes always been shitty. At least, we got a game with "football" on it, not soccer.
Even if in fact, the really very first name of how they called actual football was... Soccer. But i won't never buy they called it soccer for that reason lol, never.
I didn't knowed it before like 2 years ago, and i'm 39 since july.

 

[Emroth]

@vialli82
Sorry, pal, I thought it was a dig at me.
That I thought it was shit, but now its suddenly cool.

Yes, we do have different taste, but its not Pes16 I enjoy - its Fifa16.
Because every match is different and AI is very creative and unpredictable.

Last Pes I enjoyed was Pes17.

To me - Pes was always about how AI played. How teams played.
How you saw Henry or Zidane coming onto the pitch and you knew there and then - it will be tough. Back when before the match you had to manually mark the best AI players to make sure you stand a chance against them. Tactics had to be adjusted constantly.

All this is gone now. I cant see any difference between AI players. Messi, Neymar, Salah - they are all just pretty faces, but all of them play exactly the same.
In the past every good player stood out. Playmakers were opening your defense with their passes, good defenders were almost impossible to dribble pass. It wasnt only attackers that were a threat.

Now...? Now every single team plays the same football. Long ball to the striker, very little dribbling, very little creativity.
If it wasnt for different kits and names - it would be hard to say if you are playing against Man City or Fulham.

This is what I hate about Pes19/20/21.

Yes - it looks great, it has great ball physics (altho no shot variety), and physical battles are fun (but referees are terrible)

But all this does not give me a long term fun, because due to this one dimensional AI - game simply becomes boring and frustrating after few matches.
This game will not gain any points from me in the future.

Again - its just me. I respect your opinion and Im glad you're having fun. Wish I had.

 

[terrafilius]

 

[PRO_TOO]

like what!? is this really happening!? really!?
did i read that correct!?
my brain is samba dancing right now... come on... this cant be real!? or is it!?

edit: if so, lets create another thread for this!

edit2: https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/goals-football-game-announced-1633622/

edit3: i took care of it: here we go guys... https://evoweb.uk/threads/goals-a-aaa-football-game.88027/

AND YES!!! im freaking excited... more than i was the last 10 years ago for both titles!

 

[terrafilius]

like what!? is this really happening!? really!?
did i read that correct!?
my brain is samba dancing right now... come on... this cant be real!? or is it!?

edit: if so, lets create another thread for this!

edit2: https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/goals-football-game-announced-1633622/

edit3: i took care of it: here we go guys... https://evoweb.uk/threads/goals-a-aaa-football-game.88027/

AND YES!!! im freaking excited... more than i was the last 10 years ago for both titles!

its real and its happening, I wonder how they are going to balance the AI.. because EA and Konami still cant find the right way

 

[Joga]

Andreas Thorstensson - former Counter-Strike world champion. This guy games.

 

[PRO_TOO]

its real and its happening, I wonder how they are going to balance the AI.. because EA and Konami still cant find the right way

gimme pure stats or machine learning please!

 

[Emroth]

its real and its happening, I wonder how they are going to balance the AI.. because EA and Konami still cant find the right way

Its just online tho, isnt it?
Well thats a start I suppose..
Great to see others decided to fill the gap. (What we were saying for years now)

 

[vialli82]

Well it's just about when you said about your score in PES 2016, to me it was a goalfest as the GK was too weak for the bullet you could've launch : resulted to high score especially on my side lol.
Fifa 16, i can't tell i'm a fan but it's probably the one i played the most on PS4 / not because i liked it in fact, i gotted more playing time lol. But only online.
Feeling, well, i didn't really liked Ignite overall physics feelings so... Well to me it was just the more "acceptable" i played with the 17, with the recoil i place both on the same level of acceptability, but i played more by default, much more by habits than because i really enjoyed it unfortunately. Same as i played the 15 just for winning the 1st division even if it was is the worst football game from my point of view i played, tennis score, no inertia etc. The most boring, the less predictable. I didn't enjoyed to score to be honest neither on 16 or 17, and scoring was always the same straight shoots goal, or enter on the goal, even if i tried header and all, i don't know but it didn't worked or i was bad in that area.

I suppose with sliders vs AI on career mode it's different, but i'm totally against slider like i've said i'm a football game communist : same game for everyone and assuming choice. It's dumb perhaps but i don't like to talk with someone who got a total different experience because of sliders and all.
The issue with it is we're all talking not only from a different point of view when sliders didn't existed but it's just because we played differently; but now we're even more confused when we talk about our Fifa experience. Even if the fundamentals will stay, experience may change totally. And i don't believe about "one set of sliders for everyone to have a simulation" : lots of people plays differently, perhaps your sliders makes the task easier for them to score if they play in a certain way. Well enough said about slided, in PES we got only slow/normal/fast haha and it's already pretty different when you change it.

PES 2017 i retried, and it's not at all like in my remember, as we talked with a friend 3 or 4 month ago, it's not at all what i expected, memories sometimes are very strange.. In fact you can turn how you want with very very small inertia (not enough to be realistic, less than PES 6), founded it a bit too fast, there no input lag but GK are good and it's overally well balanced. It's very dynamics, and shoots are very similar.
Physics where better PES 2019 to 2021, ball, motions, contact edit: and i forgot the most important shooting variety etc. and i understand one thing, if you want realistic physics, you got to wait for the player finishing his movement, it's not really input lag but we all call it like that, that's part of the animation to me that a player can be faster than real physics, like on PES 5 as a good example there was a lot of that.
Yes i accord a lot of importance in physics, including with the ball, and contact, but i don't takes physics like an UFC game lol, AI too, but i tend to switch a lot and takes control by myself. Also, if i saw a boost from the AI what you call "script" i don't hesitate to goes very harsh with sliding tackle. So not an issue to me. A bad AI to me is one you can score as much as you could, i found 20-21 AI pretty hard and challenging in comparison to others title where i needed to play in a certain way, with "handicaps", i don't need on those game : i don't need to play manual for example (i've never been a fan, in fact i always dreamed about "semi" on PES lol, it's that or normal assistance as now they're only 2 level i think)

One last thing: a long as we got a game everyone can found the fun he research or even "not fun" (personnally i can play with game no fun but super interersting in terms of complexity), well you know what i mean, i'll be happy. I don't think about my own ass, i really want when a games cames out everyone to enjoy it in his way. Even if i'm, like i said, a bit a football communist as a (semi) joke, because sometimes we're completely lost because we don't talk exactly about the same game because we don't play the same way (one manual with XXX type of slider, semi shooting, one with all Semi in Legendary, one online sometimes we're loosing our mind talkin about our experiences

 

[majuh]

Have you noticed that people, even in UK, started buying Pes 2021 again, like it's some sort of last of its kind?

I haven't seen a Pes game in top 20 since a long time.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...nt-prevent-july-sales-slump-uk-monthly-charts

That's most likely related to the UEFA Euro 2020 finals in the UK.

 

[Emroth]

Well it's just about when you said about your score in PES 2016, to me it was a goalfest

I remember this conversation, but I dont know where did we talk about it, so I cant check what I wrote. I meant Fifa16, not Pes16. I never played Pes16.
I skipped Pes14/15/16, coz my daughter was born and I didnt have time to play.
If I wrote Pes16 it was an accident.