eFootball (All Platforms)

Did you have followed the translation from Pesuniverse of the producer ITW? It was out after his Reddit post. And it fits with what he said.
I'm confused too, but he said "full PS5 experience" so it should includes aswell graphics, physics and animations if it's an "experience". If it was only graphically, he wouldn't have used that word i think, and he talks about graphics separately.

I'm not sure to understand the tweet, it says that when he plays against a PS4, it "desactivate" PS5 things?
Well, personnally i thrust that downgrade system, it's pretty simple to do in fact, well with Unreal at least... With Fox it would be pretty hard.

I didn't tried PES 2017 version PS3 for example and compared. But the downgrade was especially linked to FPS and texture, like on PC. Animations? I don't know, but PES 2015 (i gotted both version on PS3/4) was practically identical to play, no new animations etc.
 
staffan said:
There is no way the gameplay/controls change from one match to the next depending on the device of the opponent you are facing, it will be the same game across all devices with graphical settings tweaked for each platform, just like every other cross-platform game.
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"There's no way" is an argument?
As Chuny said it's possible, very possible.
But believe what you want, if got knowlegde in cross-gen and programming and you don't have any exemple of downgrade, then yes...
You believe one guy who said it's BS, but it's practically similar to the answers of the translated interview. Real Konami credential could be a simple Data editor or whatever, those guys don't know a thing about the game developpement. Even marketing guys don't know.
I didn't thrusted him at first... Then i saw the itw. It's Iitterally the same as he said, but from the producer. But it's just the producer, not important, he wants to "sell his game which is F2P" lol, seriously... Whatever, that itw didn't make noise here at all. Because it's optimistic, and we're on Evo-web : its not the mood of that website since at least 5 years. There's real reasons, but there's a lot of exaggerations too. Fortunately that some people replay the game with another vision later, because at the time, when it was launched every PES was bad / even PES 2011 and 2013 which are now tooks as "example" (not PES 2013 in my case... I take PES 2017 anytime but whatever)

Isn't the first sports games cross-gen even on Mobile? I just can't believe we will get a mobile game on PS5 a second. But that's my choice.
We're in mode "believing or not believing" in fact, i think it's totally possible and logic, you don't : we'll see in "Automn". I'm not here to fought for having the last word, but at least i want arguments that proves that it's not doable at all, and we will gets a Mobile game physics and animations on PS5 > so something who doesnt get the half of what we got actually with PES 2021.
 
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vialli82 said:
"There's no way" is an argument?
As Chuny said it's possible, very possible.
But believe what you want, if got knowlegde in cross-gen and programming and you don't have any exemple of downgrade, then yes...

Isn't the first sports games cross-gen even on Mobile? I just can't believe we will get a mobile game on PS5 a second. But that's my choice.
We're in mode "believing or not believing" in fact, i think it's totally possible and logic, you don't : we'll see in "Automn". I'm not here to fought for having the last word, but at least i want arguments that proves that it's not doable at all, and we will gets a Mobile game physics and animations on PS5 > so something who doesnt get the half of what we got actually with PES 2021.
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It does all make sense. I even suggested last week that they might make 2 games in 1 and the fact that scaling down games on Unreal is supposedly fairly straightforward adds strength to that possibility.

It also makes a lot of sense from a "grow the userbase" perspective - if Konami make all versions compatible with one another, all PES users can play against each other, no matter what platform. I believe the mobile version is very popular in Japan so that would particularly cater for their home userbase.

That doesn't mean it will be a good game though. The beta was crap, with poor physics, unresponsive controls and some of the same flaws of PES21 (and many earlier games) still there, now carried forward into Unreal. And most importantly for offline players, we don't know if the AI will be any better than PES21, which was one of the worst features of that game. I hoped the move to the power of next-gen might open up all new possibilities for AI, but I've not heard Konami mention a single thing about improving this.
 
staffan said:
The "reddit guy is probably true" crowd are going to be the "it's just a mobile port bro, nothing do with the actual game" crowd from before.
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Even if true... this is what he says:

  1. WILL THERE BE A MASTER LEAGUE?
Yes, however it won’t be called master league. It’s getting re-branded and I’ll be honest, it’s not getting a lot of “resource” so don’t expect anything amazing if you’re a fan of the mode.

  1. WILL THERE BE “BAL”?
I’m not sure, we’ve heard literally nothing in our department about it.
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So basically if you're an offline player and even if this guy is legit, I have no idea why you would have any hope for the game based on that post.

In any case, this is going to be free to play, konami is not going to lose or win any preorders, so hyping the game or trashing it prior to release is meaningless. There's nothing at stake for anyone here...

One thing is certain, their focus is myclub and microtransactions and if there're enough people willing to buy a broken ML mode like in previous years they may offer them the chance down the road, because why not. Free money.
 
I didn't expect anything from Konami this year, but they still managed to disappoint me somehow.

What amazes me is the disconnect between Konami and their respective fan groups. On the one hand, you have die-hard PES fans like us, who want nothing more than a quality football game. On the other hand, you got players eagerly waiting to play myClub on their handheld devices. It seems like Konami still does not understand which one to please, so they release something somewhere down the middle that does not really cater to any side.

From a marketing standpoint, Konami's approach is absolutely understandable. Mobile gaming is the biggest gaming market in the world right now - and it has been for a couple of years at this point. Because the entry bar is so low (everybody's got a smartphone by now), it's a perfect way to cash in big time. Mobile gamers tend to spend more on games, especially if these games are offered as a freemium service. So financially speaking, it is a good decision on Konami's part.

Meanwhile, the need for a good, semi-realistic footie game is probably bigger than ever. With EA neglecting the gameplay aspects for years, Konami could have positioned itself as the alternative. A game that favors great gameplay and offers a great offline experience, while the competition becomes more of a lottery each year. But instead, they follow the same path. And throw in some F2P for good measure.

I assume that Konami will not go bankrupt from eFootball. I don't believe that it will be a financial disaster. However, it could be another franchise that Konami successfully runs into the ground. Their handling of fan-beloved franchises like Silent Hill, Metal Gear Solid, and Castlevania has shown that they are profit-oriented above all. If a franchise/game can not net them enough financial reward, why bother? They don't really care about nostalgia or a fan base that is aching for a new title from their favorite series. All they care about is cashing in, and a cross-platform F2P game with microtransactions is one of the best ways to do this (as Fortnite has shown us).

Are they to blame for that? Not really. They are a company, after all. Making money is their objective.

Is it sad to see PES go down the drain? Absolutely.

As some have mentioned before, it is time for a third party to step in and develop a good football game, free of any gambling mechanics. Just pure, good football. However, due to license issues, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. And with the cost of developing such a game (did anybody say motion capturing?), it is unlikely that any small or even medium-sized studio could fill that gap.

So I guess going back to older footie games is the only way to have an enjoyable football experience as of now.
 
its all irrelevant if they make an enhanced PS5 version with photo realism graphics or if it works on a Nokia 3210 , they have stated they do not value a single player game so the AI will be a drab as 21 is now.
 
vialli82 said:
Did you have followed the translation from Pesuniverse of the producer ITW? It was out after his Reddit post. And it fits with what he said.
I'm confused too, but he said "full PS5 experience" so it should includes aswell graphics, physics and animations if it's an "experience". If it was only graphically, he wouldn't have used that word i think, and he talks about graphics separately.

I'm not sure to understand the tweet, it says that when he plays against a PS4, it "desactivate" PS5 things?
Well, personnally i thrust that downgrade system, it's pretty simple to do in fact, well with Unreal at least... With Fox it would be pretty hard.
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Yeah, when translated he says something like: "PS5 vs PS5 there where many new things but when it was PS5 vs PS4 functions were deactivated". Roughly. The tweet is in response to someone saying that its crazy that the game will play like a mobile phone game on a PS5.

I'm pessimistic because of Konamis track record but I agree it would be so weird doing this mobile device-route as a first game on a brand new console. But, yeah only time will tell...
 
Dr. Pepper said:
Are they to blame for that? Not really. They are a company, after all. Making money is their objective.
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If the game is shitty, no one will buy any DLCs. Everyone who absolutely wants a football games will goes to Fifa, that's simple. So F2P is all or nothing : but you need to have something strong behind.
I don't thrust a super upper PES neither, but at least something better than Fifa in some areas. Otherwhise it's dead for them, and no point to release anything.

I just expect one thing on ML / no regens and one one edit mode : being able to edit market value (for ML) that's all. That's all, i'm okay with current ML to be honest. I only hope they took in consideration the Q/A from last year about regens, the survey, because practically everyone has said to prefers having new players instead of old regens. That's one of the two changes i want for ML, otherwhise it's okay overally. The second is to be able to set a market value on created players. And that's all.

And not so long ago we all talked that the future was in Online. Now we're tired of it because we're older, we wants to play without pressure or anything (against an human it put me pressure personnally), and wants to come back to offline. I'm in the same case. Well, in fact when you compared with Fifa online, it was practically the same as online, never been the case in PES.

Whatever, back to ML, i'm old school about modes. I don't want a super complicated stuffs like in FM neither for ML. Something simple, but logic.. That's what i fear the most... Let's see how the "new" main guy in charge will create it, well i think it's open bar for the devs in terms of online regarding his point of view. But i prefers a back to the past and create my own manager than what we got now.

Also, i'll be honest, as an editor, i hate managers stuffs. It's really painfull to change the names of fakes managers an image at every live update.
Get rid of managers would be the first thing i would do : it "block" Myclub (that one reason that it's a shitty mode) and it doesn't have any impact on others offline mode.
 
vialli82 said:
If the game is shitty, no one will buy any DLCs.
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Selling DLC will probably not be Konami's main intention. Most F2P games thrive off microtransactions, financially speaking. A little outfit here, a little celebration hidden behind a paywall there... this is how the future of the game will probably look like.

Seeing the reactions on YouTube, it seems like Konami is on point with their marketing, at least for a certain target group. Look at all those comments from people praising the game. Now, I do not want this to sound racist in any way but take a look at the names of these commenters. Many of them seem to originate from countries that are usually really heavy on mobile gaming. I'm mainly talking about the Middle East and Asia. These two markets are incredibly huge for mobile gaming, in a way that none of us can probably imagine. These people most likely do not possess a gaming console (either due to financial reasons or because of availability issues), but pretty much all of them have a smartphone. And those are the ones that F2P game devs prey upon.

When you release a DLC, usually those are priced somewhere in the 10-30€ price region, right? Now, for some people, that is a lot of money. But spending less than a Dollar on some Fortnite Skin that makes your character dance like he has a seizure is far more feasible for most people. But shit... it was 99 cents.

Now imagine those transactions happening every day by thousands of players around the globe. If you crunch the numbers, it becomes more than realistic to assume that you can make more than a million a day with this strategy. This is how games like Dota 2 and League of Legends generate revenue. No DLC, just microtransactions for some cosmetics. The prize pool for The International, the annual Dota 2 pro tournament, was $32 million in 2019. Largely funded with microtransactions for cosmetics (you can only buy cosmetics for Dota, no gameplay stuff like in Ultimate Team/MyClub).

And if the game is shitty, people with mobile devices will still gravitate towards eFootball since it's F2P. For some reason, quality is not really an important aspect in the world of mobile gaming: Look at Lilly's Garden and the likes. Those games are stripped-down match 3 games that still haul in incredible amounts of money each year.
 
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As a 44yrs old that played every single one of PES games I was very sad with the news. I didn't even want to post a comment here. I guess it's time to move on, no football videogames for me (sticking with the 21 version at least, the other game is a complete joke).
There's now a big opportunity for some indie companies to fill the gap. Because licenses are the biggest issue they could start by making an EPL+EFL game. Focus on 44 teams and their real life tactics. Provide us with a robust stadium creation suite and full tactics editing. They could just obtain the Premier League rights to help them build some customers base and we'll do the rest of the job. Scrap any MP features, make it single player and co-op only. If they can't afford any licenses just name the game "Football" and again we'll step in with modding.
 
Paynekiller said:
Exactly! If the game in a good place they should be promoting the hell out of it not releasing a half assed teaser trailer that looks like it was done as a school project. If they don’t have confidence in the game how the hell do they expect the gaming community to have confidence. Konami’s usual lack of transparency is nothing new but the fact that they’re making gamers wait until the end of next month before they share any more info is just creating more frustration in the community.
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I picked up somewhere (I think it was knight on YT) that there were some issues with Unreal Engine 5 not being at the
point it was supposed to be by now.

Not trying to defend Konami and this half-cooked trailer but perhaps they simply cannot show anything more impressive atm because the engine they depend on isn't there yet. They did, however, have a deadline to meet so they scraped together everything they had (including old footage of Iniesta) to at least show something (I agree, though, that someone with even only a gram more talent would have done a better job with the material)

As for information policy: you can't really put the blame publicly on a partner you committed to and ultimately depend on. So they are trying to sit it out.

It's a theory, nothing more.
 
Konami have every right to take their game into any direction they want, And of course in the f2p situation the fans will make their voices heard with how much they invest in the game.

What is dangerous is the blatant mis information and empty promises they make, It really looks ugly and the way their shills,pr puppets and youtubers are being hung out to dry shows that Konami have totally given up on the franchise for ever.

Just a reminder that not long ago they used to claim that data packs contained no gameplay changes, There was no scripting and the lack of fouls and penalties issue didn't exist.

We should be proud as a community for sticking up for the game we loved that long, Times may have changed but having class,credibility and dignity can never be replaced.
 
TerryFGaming said:
The more I realize just how massive PES Mobile really is the more this entire thing makes so much sense. ALL the biggest PES YouTubers are actually all Mobile it seems.
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I've been taken aback in the last couple of years by the popularity of the mobile game. Based on the level of YouTube content there is about the game (especially from Asia) and the sheer number of frustrated mobile players that pile on to every Twitter post from the official account.

Add it to the long list of things I don't understand. Mounting my phone to my DS4 to play an ISS PE2 Master League on an emulator, yes. The current PES mobile game using on-screen controls, no.
 
Ameobinho said:
Konami have every right to take their game into any direction they want, And of course in the f2p situation the fans will make their voices heard with how much they invest in the game.

What is dangerous is the blatant mis information and empty promises they make, It really looks ugly and the way their shills,pr puppets and youtubers are being hung out to dry shows that Konami have totally given up on the franchise for ever.

Just a reminder that not long ago they used to claim that data packs contained no gameplay changes, There was no scripting and the lack of fouls and penalties issue didn't exist.

We should be proud as a community for sticking up for the game we loved that long, Times may have changed but having class,credibility and dignity can never be replaced.
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Are there any shills left? I don't see any.
 
Ameppe said:
Are there any shills left? I don't see any.
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Only Adam Bhatti now. But he’s paid to praise it, you can’t really blame him. He’s a Konami robot these days.

Apart from that, no. Even the PES Universe guys are critical this time. And probably because they know that there is no point making kits etc anymore as PES doesn’t exist now. They won’t be making money from eFootball so it’s now safe to tell the truth.
 
Ameppe said:
Are there any shills left? I don't see any.
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I think there are still sites and individuals I (possibly unfairly) think of in that way, but I don't think they're paid or anything like that - they just know how you have to act in order to keep your Konami contact(s). As I know too, after we lost ours years ago.

Without naming names (and please don't, because everyone I've spoken to from other community sites have honestly been such nice people, and are entitled to operate as they see fit, as are we) - within 24 hours of the announcement, certain people/collectives on Twitter went into overdrive with their tweets about the "big news". Whereas most of us tweeted / reacted in horror, certain places just said things like "big changes for PES", and it came across (to me and others I've spoken to privately) as really blatantly trying to gloss over the bad news. (Compare that with @Tom's RIP banner. :LOL:)

But those sites/individuals are simply "remaining professional", cos behind the scenes, trust me, you don't know what their conversations look like. And, again... The choice is, do that (communicate positive reactions, or neutral at worst), or you lose your contact, and your contact is your one shot for your feedback to be heard.

Now, of course, our feedback has never been heard. That's why, after years of maintaining a cordial relationship with the contact I had, I ended up letting my frustration get the better of me (in a manner that I truly regret) and severed ties with them, so that I could be "more honest" in an official capacity. But I made that decision despite knowing that attempts were made to pass on that feedback. Ultimately, once it hit Japan, it never made it out of the inbox.

Why? Because it was made very clear to the guy that only feedback that could be demonstrably tied to financial loss would be reviewed. Stuff like, "there's a bug on old versions of Android that means you can't buy coins". Anything else, they said, would mean dev time for no financial benefit.

...and that's exactly why we are here, where we are today. And it's why I'm sad that people are struggling to let go, and keep hoping for any good to come of this.
 
trenchak47 said:
Serious question guys you reckon konami will sell pes gaming franchise and how much you reckon it will cost
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No. It's their property and they would have no reason to sell it and create competition for themselves. That would be insane.

If you want to continue to play PES - buy an old PES. That's the only way. Move on.
 
vialli82 said:
I scrolled down during 30 minutes (no joke) then i gived up. Too much shitty stuffs about facemaking, Olympic games, transfers, it's a nightmare to found something. And it was tweets i didn't read. FFS i should have put a "like" or a RT, because i got no idea how to make a research in twitter (only account research, but not tweet)
I tried with the research bar but didn't founded it. Or Konami asked him to remove it, or i would have scrolled 20 more minutes to found it.

BUT i found exactly the same guy on Reddit. He said exactly the same things.
Just take a look:

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There are some valid points in there which make sense.
Since we all know about KONAMI´s "great" marketing skills, it could most likely be, that they just screwed up the presentation of their new game.
Crossplay to turn off and on, okay.
If people are all up for playing online by any means, they might wanna be paired with mobile users...well, why not.

IF the game plays well and ML DLC will be out on a reasonable price and IF these dudes are right, then there might be a little hope.
I also don´t have anything against changes (don´t know about the new name though and the menu color scheme), I mean if F2P is the future and it pays out for them....well okay.

I just can´t get along with changes that have been working well before, like the controls.
They are going to change them, aren´t they? I love double tap R1 for example. Not because of I´m rushing and rushing but it´s just cool to use it when dribbling, like slowly walking with the ball towards the defender and in the right moment, change direction along with double tapping R1...you get great moves and dribbling out of there.
Same with team mate pressing....

IF, if, if...same story every year....
 
Schwarzenbeck said:
I picked up somewhere (I think it was knight on YT) that there were some issues with Unreal Engine 5 not being at the
point it was supposed to be by now.

Not trying to defend Konami and this half-cooked trailer but perhaps they simply cannot show anything more impressive atm because the engine they depend on isn't there yet. They did, however, have a deadline to meet so they scraped together everything they had (including old footage of Iniesta) to at least show something (I agree, though, that someone with even only a gram more talent would have done a better job with the material)

As for information policy: you can't really put the blame publicly on a partner you committed to and ultimately depend on. So they are trying to sit it out.

It's a theory, nothing more.
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If the devs are in a position after 2+ years where all they can share is a few stadium renders and mobile gameplay footage then they've certainly bitten off more than they can chew.
 
As much as I want a third party to join the table, it will be close to impossible.
Remember the late 90s we had multiple football options. I've dedicated years of Actua Soccer, Sensible Soccer, World League Soccer, Microsoft Soccer or the early days of UCL when Eidos was doing them.

But soon that marked died, killed by FIFA and, a bit, by PES also.
There are slim to no chances of someone to step up after 15-20 years and produce to even look good, not even compete.

They don't need name licences, they can leave it easy to edit, but they need a solid engine and the funds to keep executives far away from makiing the decisions.
Just a small example, check the football game in the new Tokyo Olympics video game. Check out the player movement. Imagine someone taking the time to actually build something.
 
Paynekiller said:
If the devs are in a position after 2+ years where all they can share is a few stadium renders and mobile gameplay footage then they've certainly bitten off more than they can chew.
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Probably, but software companies and promises fulfilled on time simply do not go well together.

Look at Cyberpunk 2077: 7 years in the making (with their own engine) and a fucking mess at launch, thousands of users pissed, horrific press, stock price tanking (though I think a great game). We are still waiting on a critical fix MS promised to apply to our Teams licence 1.5 years ago. And does anyone remember the Killzone 2 trailer for the PS3 purportedly showing "in-game" footage?

Again, not to defend Konami, as a strictly ML player I am as gutted as the next guy given the bleak outlook, but from where I stand it's more of a pattern (also due to the increasing complexity of projects) rather than singular incompetence.
 
Schwarzenbeck said:
Probably, but software companies and promises fulfilled on time simply do not go well together.

Look at Cyberpunk 2077: 7 years in the making (with their own engine) and a fucking mess at launch, thousands of users pissed, horrific press, stock price tanking (though I think a great game). We are still waiting on a critical fix MS promised to apply to our Teams licence 1.5 years ago. And does anyone remember the Killzone 2 trailer for the PS3 purportedly showing "in-game" footage?

Again, not to defend Konami, as a strictly ML player I am as gutted as the next guy given the bleak outlook, but from where I stand it's more of a pattern (also due to the increasing complexity of projects) rather than singular incompetence.
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In ESPORTS & Konami its more down to creating product as cheap as possible and milking it for what its worth. Nothing to do with complexity as the games where better in 2017 than they are in 2021 using the same engine PES hasn't become more complex. They could have just added animations and upgraded the graphics and left the AI alone and it would have been infinitely better.

FIFA is the same too but you just get a more polished looking product. FIFA actually looks better in 2017 as well as plays better compared to 21 - how does that work?

The difference this year is that EA look like they care a little about single players with the improved modes and debug tool etc where as Konami look to have all but abandoned the single player
 
Callmev said:
As much as I want a third party to join the table, it will be close to impossible.
Remember the late 90s we had multiple football options. I've dedicated years of Actua Soccer, Sensible Soccer, World League Soccer, Microsoft Soccer or the early days of UCL when Eidos was doing them.

But soon that marked died, killed by FIFA and, a bit, by PES also.
There are slim to no chances of someone to step up after 15-20 years and produce to even look good, not even compete.

They don't need name licences, they can leave it easy to edit, but they need a solid engine and the funds to keep executives far away from makiing the decisions.
Just a small example, check the football game in the new Tokyo Olympics video game. Check out the player movement. Imagine someone taking the time to actually build something.
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There are at least a dozen of arcade football games on Steam. There are football turn based tactical games which are superb like Football tactics and glory. You can find tons of football games like Sensible Soccer and Microprose Soccer. The only game that was trying to reach proper sim levels was PES. Last FIFA that had gameplay close to the sport was FIFA 17. After that it's just a 3D Unsensible Soccer game.
I disagree that we have slim chances someone steps up and creates a somewhat sim game. Just one dev has created the best tennis game. 2 years ago there were zero skateboarding games and now we have like 5-6? When there's demand for something there is always an opportunity for devs. What we need is a decent publisher like Annapurna to support them.
 
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