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EA SPORTS FC 24

Chris Davies said:
I'm aware I'm a vortex of negativity right now and I (genuinely) apologise, but I have a serious question.

Is anybody else noticing that almost every goal is the same (a "driving run" as I've seen it referred to on Twitter)?

A run that starts in midfield, goes between the defenders (who do nothing but watch) and then a shot from the edge of / inside the box that flies in?

Goal #1 (in the first few seconds), goal #2 (2mins 40 seconds), goal #4 (3 mins 45 seconds)... Even Haaland's "power shot" clip from earlier. They're all absolutely identical. So bad it almost looks like a bug, but it's the complete and total lack of AI. How do the eSports guys not get bored?
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Reading your comment and fully understanding it, what else could’ve come to my mind… 🤷‍♂️ …hence my comment the other day.



it even had multiple header goals in it… the beautiful game! It was! 🥲
 
Chris Davies said:
I'm aware I'm a vortex of negativity right now and I (genuinely) apologise, but I have a serious question.

Is anybody else noticing that almost every goal is the same (a "driving run" as I've seen it referred to on Twitter)?

A run that starts in midfield, goes between the defenders (who do nothing but watch) and then a shot from the edge of / inside the box that flies in?

Goal #1 (in the first few seconds), goal #2 (2mins 40 seconds), goal #4 (3 mins 45 seconds)... Even Haaland's "power shot" clip from earlier. They're all absolutely identical. So bad it almost looks like a bug, but it's the complete and total lack of AI. How do the eSports guys not get bored?
Click to expand...
Because all they care about is the card's animation.
 
Chris Davies said:
Goal #1 (in the first few seconds), goal #2 (2mins 40 seconds), goal #4 (3 mins 45 seconds)... Even Haaland's "power shot" clip from earlier. They're all absolutely identical. So bad it almost looks like a bug, but it's the complete and total lack of AI. How do the eSports guys not get bored?
Click to expand...
You know what? I almost understand them.
When the result is more important than fun/realism, you just don't care.

I mean, do you remember in FIFA 12-15 where there was the "LB+A pass back on kick-off then the LB+Y driven pass to the forward on the run" issue?
The defenders wouldn't track the forward running towards the goal, and if you timed the pass properly to avoid getting caught offside it would be the forward 1 on 1 with the keeper every single time.
Do you recall anyone in FUT avoiding it because "man it's just sooo overpowered"? I don't.
Playing manual I would not be able to do that, but of course I quite always got matched against people using assisted, and boy how many of those goals I conceded.

Just another example: we're almost the same age if I recall correctly (38 yo here) and we've both played, probably, Virtua Striker 2 in our teenage.

Well, the very first version of Virtua Striker 2 had a sort of bug where shots from way out would often get a strange curve, completely deceiving the goalkeeper who would just not save them.
Once you got the hold of it (where to shoot from, where to aim at, how much power to use) you could score two or three of them per match.
In the following iteration (VS2 '98) that was fixed, but another bug was introduced allowing you to score from 40+ metres consistently, with the ball hitting the lower part of the post and going in because of poor (very poor indeed) positioning by the keeper.
Again, you should have known to perform the shot properly but with some practice it almost became a no-brainer.

Do you think people at the arcades would refrain from using them? No way.
We even had matches in which we decided we would only score using them: we did that for fun/banter, only against friends, and upon agreement of course (now I still play VS2 from time to time but don't find these "shortcuts" fun anymore), but there were kids constantly doing it as a means to win matches.

I think it's what happens to the FUT crowd nowadays: find an overpowered move, exploit it until it gets patched, if it gets patched just find another one, exploit it again, rinse and repeat.

It's sad, I know.
 
*aLe said:
You know what? I almost understand them.
When the result is more important than fun/realism, you just don't care.

I mean, do you remember in FIFA 12-15 where there was the "LB+A pass back on kick-off then the LB+Y driven pass to the forward on the run" issue?
The defenders wouldn't track the forward running towards the goal, and if you timed the pass properly to avoid getting caught offside it would be the forward 1 on 1 with the keeper every single time.
Do you recall anyone in FUT avoiding it because "man it's just sooo overpowered"? I don't.
Playing manual I would not be able to do that, but of course I quite always got matched against people using assisted, and boy how many of those goals I conceded.

Just another example: we're almost the same age if I recall correctly (38 yo here) and we've both played, probably, Virtua Striker 2 in our teenage.

Well, the very first version of Virtua Striker 2 had a sort of bug where shots from way out would often get a strange curve, completely deceiving the goalkeeper who would just not save them.
Once you got the hold of it (where to shoot from, where to aim at, how much power to use) you could score two or three of them per match.
In the following iteration (VS2 '98) that was fixed, but another bug was introduced allowing you to score from 40+ metres consistently, with the ball hitting the lower part of the post and going in because of poor (very poor indeed) positioning by the keeper.
Again, you should have known to perform the shot properly but with some practice it almost became a no-brainer.

Do you think people at the arcades would refrain from using them? No way.
We even had matches in which we decided we would only score using them: we did that for fun/banter, only against friends, and upon agreement of course (now I still play VS2 from time to time but don't find these "shortcuts" fun anymore), but there were kids constantly doing it as a means to win matches.

I think it's what happens to the FUT crowd nowadays: find an overpowered move, exploit it until it gets patched, if it gets patched just find another one, exploit it again, rinse and repeat.

It's sad, I know.
Click to expand...
This is a really good point. Burned in my mind is an older FIFA where you'd enter the box at a certain angle every time because shots from there were never saved.

But you can't class these goals as "exploits" because all you have to do is just... Run and shoot. It's not a bug. It's the core gameplay loop.

Less "solving a sporting conundrum", more "mining on Minecraft". "Press and hold A to score".

(And before someone says "sliders", they can only tweak, not regenerate the AI that's missing - and more to the point, and something I'm more interested in discussing, how is run/score run/score satisfying to anybody?)

Apologies for derailing the thread, it's just so gutting.
 
Chris Davies said:
This is a really good point. Burned in my mind is an older FIFA where you'd enter the box at a certain angle every time because shots from there were never saved.

But you can't class these goals as "exploits" because all you have to do is just... Run and shoot. It's not a bug. It's the core gameplay loop.

Less "solving a sporting conundrum", more "mining on Minecraft". "Press and hold A to score".

(And before someone says "sliders", they can only tweak, not regenerate the AI that's missing - and more to the point, and something I'm more interested in discussing, how is run/score run/score satisfying to anybody?)

Apologies for derailing the thread, it's just so gutting.
Click to expand...
I think is the casing point as to why I am so obsessed with modding gameplay of this series so it fits my "ideal" idea of what it should be. I don't think I've played a football game vanilla since the PS2 era. People have very rose tinted specs on about old FIFA's and PES. Almost every version has had an issue of some sort, with some being just better / more realistic ish than others.

FIFA has suffered with unrealistic and exploitable gameplay since I can remember. So not sure why anyone would be surprised at this point.
 
Recently I met a couple with two small children. One of them was 10. At some point he said he loves Fifa.
Of course, I thought.

I asked him is he spending any real money on players (his parents seemed loaded). He said
- no, I dont play Ultimate Team. I only play Career Mode.
- huh....... and what team/league do you play?
And he said
- I always create 1 star team and put them at the bottom of english football, coz I like to grow my team and play many seasons. I find it most fun this way.
🤯

Sometimes I think we are being unfair by saying EA is making game for kids.
And that kids ruined football games.
Obviously - there are kids, who are just like us. And when football games were still good - we were also kids.

As for the rest - I dont really want to comment on anything. Everything that has been said here, last few pages, are like deja vu of Fifa 18/19/20/21/22/23 threads.

"Pace is good", "AI seems decent", "ball physics are improved", "I see good few fouls"...
and then EVERY SINGLE GOOD thing is being taken away. Patch by patch.

So please dont fool yourselves that this time will be different. Default gameplay WILL be shite. Sooner or later. End of.

But

There's one thing I wonder tho.
Career Mode is one of the most busy sections of early access feedback.
Year by year pleas for not dumbing down AI and keeping slower pace are getting umpteen of upvotes. Year by year EA forum seems like there's shit loads of people who want the same as we want.
(And it used to give me hope)

There were rumours however, that we will have more tools to customise the game.
To make it more sim. So that everybody could play the game the way they want.

Do I believe it? Not really. But it will be interesting to watch how EAFC turns out.
Coz if not this year - then never.
 
Paul-v said:
I think is the casing point as to why I am so obsessed with modding gameplay of this series so it fits my "ideal" idea of what it should be. I don't think I've played a football game vanilla since the PS2 era. People have very rose tinted specs on about old FIFA's and PES. Almost every version has had an issue of some sort, with some being just better / more realistic ish than others.

FIFA has suffered with unrealistic and exploitable gameplay since I can remember. So not sure why anyone would be surprised at this point.
Click to expand...

Do you think there could be any time where we could extract the animation data and the models and create our own football game for free?
 
*aLe said:
You know what? I almost understand them.
When the result is more important than fun/realism, you just don't care.

I mean, do you remember in FIFA 12-15 where there was the "LB+A pass back on kick-off then the LB+Y driven pass to the forward on the run" issue?
The defenders wouldn't track the forward running towards the goal, and if you timed the pass properly to avoid getting caught offside it would be the forward 1 on 1 with the keeper every single time.
Do you recall anyone in FUT avoiding it because "man it's just sooo overpowered"? I don't.
Playing manual I would not be able to do that, but of course I quite always got matched against people using assisted, and boy how many of those goals I conceded.

Just another example: we're almost the same age if I recall correctly (38 yo here) and we've both played, probably, Virtua Striker 2 in our teenage.

Well, the very first version of Virtua Striker 2 had a sort of bug where shots from way out would often get a strange curve, completely deceiving the goalkeeper who would just not save them.
Once you got the hold of it (where to shoot from, where to aim at, how much power to use) you could score two or three of them per match.
In the following iteration (VS2 '98) that was fixed, but another bug was introduced allowing you to score from 40+ metres consistently, with the ball hitting the lower part of the post and going in because of poor (very poor indeed) positioning by the keeper.
Again, you should have known to perform the shot properly but with some practice it almost became a no-brainer.

Do you think people at the arcades would refrain from using them? No way.
We even had matches in which we decided we would only score using them: we did that for fun/banter, only against friends,. and upon agreement of course (now I still play VS2 from time to time but don't find these "shortcuts" fun anymore), but there were kids constantly doing it as a means to win matches.

I think it's what happens to the FUT crowd nowadays: find an overpowered move, exploit it until it gets patched, if it gets patched just find another one, exploit it again, rinse and repeat.

It's sad, I know.
Click to expand...
Great point. This is the crux of the issue. Online gaming in general is full of toxicity. It's not about the quality of the experience at all. The ONLY thing that matters is DID I WIN? And what exploits can I use to ensure I win?

I remember being on PES6 online server. There was a gentleman's agreement that cutbacks from the byline were not allowed, because they were seen as a cheap exploit. If you did them, you were shunned and seen as a weak player.

Alternatively, FIFA in the years since is the POLAR OPPOSITE of this approach. Instead most people now actively try to find exploits in the game and actively use them as much as possible to get the win. It's only about the win, by any means necessary. With the least amount of skill necessary. Hence why these idiots hate gameplay being slower, adhering to the laws of physics and requiring skill, thought and realism. I particularly hate these influencers that revel in revealing exploits for clicks and thus ruining the game for all. Then, everyone plays the exact same way, same exploits, same formation, same strategy and same UT players, game after game after game.
 
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Pagi84 said:
Great point. This is the crux of the issue. Online gaming in general is full of toxicity. It's not about the quality of the experience at all. The ONLY thing that matters is DID I WIN? And what exploits can I use to ensure I win?
Click to expand...

These problems are not exclusive to online gaming or FIFA. Me and my friends used to sweat against each other in PES6 when we were sat right beside each other. I did sweaty things to win an in-person PES6 tournament. I faced sweaty players in PES6 online lobbies and in online tournaments. This was always happening.

The matchmaking systems make some difference. Most games just match you with strangers in a 1-and-done type of way for example. So between players there is no accountability, no bond, no history, no future. Some games like Battlefield have lobbies/servers where the same players come to play everyday and some form of community can be built. Both systems have their positives and drawbacks. Though when tournaments and rankings are introduced, that tends to introduce a lot of sweat and toxicity into either system.

Ultimately, whether offline or online, the solution for properly minimising toxicity in multiplayer gaming has always been about finding players who match your vibe for how the game should be played.
 
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Topaz said:
Do you think there could be any time where we could extract the animation data and the models and create our own football game for free?
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Models yes. Animation maybe.

I've messed about trying to get decent physics working for both Unity and Unreal. It would be a pain in the backside haha.

I am starting to prefer Unity these days (now I've learnt how it works) and wouldnt mind giving it another go one day. Im just too busy with life and these silly mod projects.
 
Emroth said:
Sometimes I think we are being unfair by saying EA is making game for kids.
And that kids ruined football games.
Obviously - there are kids, who are just like us. And when football games were still good - we were also kids.
Click to expand...

100% - I was only 13 when PES 3 game out and was completely obsessed with 'realism' and wanting the game to play like football. Me and my mate used to also played Championship Manager and act out the highlights of the players we'd signed down the park.

It's not an age thing it's just that accessibility will always have more mainstream appeal than simulations across any demographic.

The problem is just lack of competition. I don't know why Konami gave up but I'm convinced there's still a market there for a proper football sim even if it's niche. That might mean no licensing an wonky animations, but I'm sure there's enough of us to make it viable even if it's not an attractive proposition for an AAA developer like EA a mid size developer should have a go. Big Ant Studios for example have made decent sports titles for Cricket and Rugby.

Racing games are good indicator of that. Loads of arcade options such as Forza, NFS, Gran Turismo vs the pure sims like iRacing or Assetto Corsa.

Given the popularity of football I find it weird how it's such a closed shop.
 
dannyfc2 said:
I'm sure there's enough of us to make it viable even if it's not an attractive proposition for an AAA developer like EA a mid size developer should have a go
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Absolutely. Id go even further. I've been saying for years now that our only hope is indie developer. Mid size developers are usually studios big enough that they mostly think about profit, growth and dreaming about competing with AAA.
Indie developers are where the true passion is.
Its usually small uknown studios that are coming out with gems full of amazing physics and attention to details.
And thats what we need.
Someone who wants to share their passion project rather than profit from it.
And I dare to say that profit would be surprisingly big, coz there's huge gap in the market for a proper football sim.
Im actually amazed how nobody done it yet.
 
From my experience, FIFA/Football, compared to other game genres, isn't as popular as you'd might think. The average Joe Bloggs gamer is not going to be interested in the game if they are not interested in football itself unless they adore the competitive sweaty Ultimate Team kinda stuff. (I know from my gaming group, I have a few guys who are avid football fans, and then on the other side, the complete nerds who think its a stupid sport and wouldnt go near the game as "its boring").

In addition. If I compare the number of users or people I've met through FIFA modding compared to say Tarkov, Skyrim, GTA etc modding. The scene (and my download count) is significantly smaller (im talking 1% of the amount).

The reason its earns so much money is because of its yearly cycle and predatory micro transactions. The yearly cycle also feeds into the micro transaction because you dont carry anything across. Some people spend $100s-1000s a year on Ultimate team. Without it, EA would have likely binned the project too due to the extreme license expense.

On top of that, to genuinely compete with FIFA/EAFC, you have to get so many things right. Just read through this thread. So many people complain about stuff, that you or I mostly don't notice or really care about. Moreso than say mis positioning, bad defending, poor speed representation and tactics.
 
Paul-v said:
Models yes. Animation maybe.

I've messed about trying to get decent physics working for both Unity and Unreal. It would be a pain in the backside haha.

I am starting to prefer Unity these days (now I've learnt how it works) and wouldnt mind giving it another go one day. Im just too busy with life and these silly mod projects.
Click to expand...

I would go with Unreal Engine more. It has better IK solver and procedural animation system that can interact with physical rigidbody. But my problem is, me alone I cannot make like 200 base animations. I will go in a limb and say with today's technology and our talented modding community, we can make an open source game that could rival FIFA if we somehow manage to rip all the assets. We could get into legal troubles but that's about it.
 
Emroth said:
Absolutely. Id go even further. I've been saying for years now that our only hope is indie developer. Mid size developers are usually studios big enough that they mostly think about profit, growth and dreaming about competing with AAA.
Indie developers are where the true passion is.
Its usually small uknown studios that are coming out with gems full of amazing physics and attention to details.
And thats what we need.
Someone who wants to share their passion project rather than profit from it.
And I dare to say that profit would be surprisingly big, coz there's huge gap in the market for a proper football sim.
Im actually amazed how nobody done it yet.
Click to expand...

I consider that some mid sized dev. AA/AAA company will be the perfect environment to create a football game or even to publish it. To produce a football videogame is very costly, necessitates lots of manpower and also time to create something similar in quality as PES for example, to be well known on the market but also to generate some prestige with sane revenue along the way. Not to mention that they'll need to know very well their sports environment and have that consumer friendly vison & perspective in mind without biases regarding ftp models, dishonest marketing or in game transactions. There are some indie developers that are very passionate about football (like FoxSports for example) but I think it's very challenging for just one or few people to create a game that could reach some high magnitude and make a loud impact that could shake those shady pillars in the sports gaming market.

There are still great developers in the industry right now that started from the bottom and then flourishing along the years mostly on the mid AA/AAA scene being recognized for their quality based products. As example we have development companies going on full crusades like ID Software, From Software or recently Larian Studios that (if they want to) could change very fast their business model to a more low effort & rewarding evil route - but they simply don't because they have that clear ideal in mind to draw the line on what should be common sense about making videogames or how should be those methods implemented into their own classic model to be offered on the market and also gaining both revenue and critical acclaim. An indie dev. team could struggle nowadays on ambitious projects like football regarding the actual technology and the manpower involved, so could be a risky move that in the end can be neglected in the final product to reach minimum expectations. There is a vast ocean of talented and passionate developers out there and I hope someday will get some news about a solid mid ranged dev. team that will rise up and create seasonal sports games like we've got back in the late 90's or early 2000s...
 
Paul-v said:
Models yes. Animation maybe.

I've messed about trying to get decent physics working for both Unity and Unreal. It would be a pain in the backside haha.

I am starting to prefer Unity these days (now I've learnt how it works) and wouldnt mind giving it another go one day. Im just too busy with life and these silly mod projects.
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You still have gameplayfootball ... At least is something.
 
here its an interesting gameplay at PC with World Class AI
AI take the lead 2-0 at 7 minute and after that nothing.
Goalkeepers became worst OMG

 
lagos911 said:
here its an interesting gameplay at PC with World Class AI
AI take the lead 2-0 at 7 minute and after that nothing.
Goalkeepers became worst OMG

Click to expand...

First goal is classic FIFA vanilla gameplay. Keeper saves, ball bounces up (for some reason), no defender goes for it so striker heads it in without a challenge.
Second goal is classic cheat AI in FIFA.

I suspect the player is playing with Competitor mode on too. The passing is very suspect by the AI and very alike when Competitor mode is on in previous editions.

What also doesn't help is that the player isn't very good either.
 
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