Champions League 2012/13

Hehehe, that's class!

I do kind of hope Madrid go on to win now. Generally speaking in the past few seasons the team that knocks United out gets to the final (Porto, Milan, Barca etc)
 
ehm, Bayern are realy the team to win it, in high form and with top players... but i fancy BVB to win CL just for their reviwal as a club in past few years..
 
beachryan said:
That is a mother f*cking disgrace. F*ck you UEFA.
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Come on, stop with that, the first Man Utd goal was offside (Van Persie) and about Nani red card, I don't see the problem, it's very dangerous, remember in WC 2010 final, all people don't understand why De Jong get only a yellow.
 
Milanista said:
I don't think it was too bad a decision - Nani was dangerous there, intentional or not. So it wasn't completely out of the blue.
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My thoughts exactly. I completely understand the angry of our United friends but we have to realise that Nani was very imprudent there. Yea, he's a good kid, I'm 100% positive he wasn't intentional but people should take in mind that that kind of attempt could have hurt Arbeloa seriously. That said, I'd have given an yellow card. Yet, I don't think it was that scandalous.

So, @United fans, you should be very proud of your team. Your players gave it all and you surely deserved a better end.

bebo said:
Mourinho shows class:

Jose Mourinho to ITV Sport: "Independent of the decision, the best team lost. We didn't deserve to win but football is like this.

"I am not speaking about the decision as I am not sure about it. Independent of that, the best team lost."
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Classy statment for sure but Mou had another thing in his mind. He was trying to pass a message to his guys - "Lads, let's get ourselves back down to earth. We have had an amazing week but there's still a long way to go. We haven't won anything yet."

Yea bebo, I'm an expert in these fvcking mind games! So don't mess with me! :BOP:
 
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ThomasGOAL said:
Come on, stop with that, the first Man Utd goal was offside (Van Persie) and about Nani red card, I don't see the problem, it's very dangerous, remember in WC 2010 final, all people don't understand why De Jong get only a yellow.
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They're very different challenges. De Jong knew what he was doing, Nani had no idea.

What is Nani supposed to do there? It's a pass played to HIM from his team-mate over his shoulder. He watches the ball the entire time, and goes to control it. If Arlbeloa isn't careening in there, Nani pulls it in off his laces Berbatov style and everyone applauds his technique.

Pretty much every pundit (aside from Roy Keane, can't imagine why he'd have anything against United) agrees. The 4 on my television are utterly flabbergasted, all of them ex-pros.

It's not even dangerous ffs, his leg isn't extended and while his boot is high it's at best elbow height.

Far less dangerous, say, then a goalkeeper punching a player square in the face after mistiming a challenge.

Finally, in the actual rule book a 'reckless' challenge should be cautioned, not red-carded. That is almost the very definition of a reckless challenge, at best.

And if you want the ultimate biased opinion - Marca - Real Madrid's OWN mouthpiece had the following opinions:
Nani- Yellow card. Rafael - not handball. Ramos - not handball. Ramos on Evra - Penalty.
 
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I think at this point any decision officials make no matter how bad some could find a way of making it sound like a good decision.

I'm sorry but no you if think trying to control a football is a red card decision, your mad.

It's nothing like the De Jong challenge btw.
 
Why would one need to compare this to any other challenges in the first place? Wow, just wow.
Everybody in their right mind can see for themselves that this is a yellow at best, and if not, I've got bad news for you.
 
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I just don't understand how people can think that a red. He's not even tackling ffs, he's just trying to control a ball that's in the air.

Are we now expecting footballers to stop before ever trying to trap a high ball?

By that token Rooney should have been sent off later in the match for attempting a shot on goal that was at head height. I mean, a defender could have come out of his blind spot and put his head there.
 
1 view makes it look like a yellow at best. The other makes it look debatable. Definitely not the worst decision ever tho as some are making out.
If in doubt tho I'd like to see the player given the benefit of the doubt - something you see more in the PL than abroad/CL.
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The decision changed the game but so did disallowing Higuain's goal and not spotting RVP offside for Utd's goal.
 
Believe me or not Nani know quickly about the red card and try to simulate just after the foul.

I'm totally neutral beachryan, but for me it's red, intentional or not.
 
Godotelli said:
1 view makes it look like a yellow at best. The other makes it look debatable. Definitely not the worst decision ever tho as some are making out.
If in doubt tho I'd like to see the player given the benefit of the doubt - something you see more in the PL than abroad/CL.
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The decision changed the game but so did disallowing Higuain's goal and not spotting RVP offside for Utd's goal.
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Actually I agree on the Higuain goal - I don't really know why that was ruled out.

Doesn't change the fact that only at the very, very last second did Nani turn his head far enough to see Arlbeloa there.

Let me put it another way, that was the 3rd time in the match Nani had brought down a ball over his shoulder. The other two were applauded by all and sundry. This time, unbeknownst to him, a Madrid player was coming in from the side.

It's a ludicrous decision to even judge that a tackle. The only way you're going to make it look like a red is if you freeze frame it from an angle that shows him making contact. But I could do that with half the challenges in any football match, at any time.

You need to consider an incident in context. If that clip were longer, you'd see that Evra had flicked the ball up to Nani who followed the trajectory over his shoulder onto his toe - exactly how he was taught.

What is he expected to do there? Leave it? Not make an attempt to bring it down? Please.

It's an awful, awful call.
 
ThomasGOAL said:
Believe me or not Nani know quickly about the red card and try to simulate just after the foul.

I'm totally neutral beachryan, but for me it's red, intentional or not.
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So players are now banned from trying to control a ball over their head, just on the odd chance another player is coming they can't see?

Alright, that's the end of the volley. And the jumping clearance. And a good deal of the half-volleys too. Like bicycle kicks? They must be banned too.

It's ridiculous. I agree if you take a 1 second view of it from some angles it looks really bad. But the whole reason we have referees is to judge context. And in context Nani was going to control that.

It's completely different from a tackle.
 
beachryan said:
So players are now banned from trying to control a ball over their head, just on the odd chance another player is coming they can't see?

Alright, that's the end of the volley. And the jumping clearance. And a good deal of the half-volleys too. Like bicycle kicks? They must be banned too.

It's ridiculous. I agree if you take a 1 second view of it from some angles it looks really bad. But the whole reason we have referees is to judge context. And in context Nani was going to control that.

It's completely different from a tackle.
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You don't understand, it's dangerous, I reapeat we don't care about intentional or not.

About bicycle, that remember Lilian Laslandes who score a bicycle with Auxerre versus Dortmund and the referee refuse the goal for dangerous move.
laslandes but refusé - Vidéo Dailymotion@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video
If this goal are validate, Auxerre go to UEFA Final
 
beachryan said:
Actually I agree on the Higuain goal - I don't really know why that was ruled out.

Doesn't change the fact that only at the very, very last second did Nani turn his head far enough to see Arlbeloa there.

Let me put it another way, that was the 3rd time in the match Nani had brought down a ball over his shoulder. The other two were applauded by all and sundry. This time, unbeknownst to him, a Madrid player was coming in from the side.

It's a ludicrous decision to even judge that a tackle. The only way you're going to make it look like a red is if you freeze frame it from an angle that shows him making contact. But I could do that with half the challenges in any football match, at any time.

You need to consider an incident in context. If that clip were longer, you'd see that Evra had flicked the ball up to Nani who followed the trajectory over his shoulder onto his toe - exactly how he was taught.

What is he expected to do there? Leave it? Not make an attempt to bring it down? Please.

It's an awful, awful call.
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It's the second movement that makes a red look debatable, imo.
 
My final point on this:

1. Just seen a report saying the ref was > 25 metres from the incident, and behind Nani. There's no way he can be 100% of his decision being that far away, and at such a bad angle. Maybe he thought Nani kicked Arlbeloa in the head (he actually only connected with his arm), maybe he thought Nani followed through, maybe he thought Nani deliberately kicked him.

But from his position the one thing he cannot do is be 100% certain it's a red card offense.

2. The 4th official told Mike Phelan that he didn't know what the red card was for. The 4th official was actually closer to the incident than the referee.

Until FIFA/UEFA/someone changes things so that a referee will at least consult others before making a decision, we're pretty f*cked.

That ref had time a plenty to use his fancy radio gizmos to talk to the other officials. From the 4th officials statement, it seems he didn't, and chose to trust his gut from 25 metres away.

That's what pisses me off the most.
 
Ridiculous red card. Its funny, that some other situations are considered normal in football, like Diego Lopez punch on Vidic in a certain corner. Anyway, the thing is, most of refs never played football in their lifes.
Perphaps they should, it would help them a lot. Like, for example, try to defend with your arms behind your back and see how it affects your movement or your jump capacity, etc. Irrelevant now.
In this case, Nani was trying to receive the ball when suddently Arbeloa shows up, hitting him with no intention at all. Clearly a yellow card at max having good sense. But this turkish ref, who is really bad (its not the first time i see him) couldnt allow such behavior!
Ironically, Arbeloa is the guy that usually do nasty things with intention and rarely gets punished, instead some non-nasty players like Nani are ridiculously punished for unusual acts.
 
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Godotelli said:
1 view makes it look like a yellow at best. The other makes it look debatable. Definitely not the worst decision ever tho as some are making out.
If in doubt tho I'd like to see the player given the benefit of the doubt - something you see more in the PL than abroad/CL.
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The decision changed the game but so did disallowing Higuain's goal and not spotting RVP offside for Utd's goal.
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That goal was dissalowed becouse of Ramos foul on RVP.. just saying ;)
 
Yes, the goals was disallowed for the Ramos foul on RVP, so it was justly disallowed. If i remember well the Madrid players never even protested.

And about the red card. That was never ever a red card. Was it dangerous play what Nani did ? It could have been dangerous, so yes it was dangerous play. Was it intentional ? Not at all. A yellow card would have been the maximum punishment. On Belgian television the pundits agreed that it never was a red. A Belgian paper asked the opinion of the chief of the Belgian referess and he also said it was a big mistake.

Man Utd were totally in control of the match and the red card changed it all.

I'm not sure if there was off-side on the United goal, it was a lucky goal, but United score loads of goals that could be considered "lucky" when luck starts to repeat itself over and over i wonder if one could still call it "luck". It's no coïncidence that this happens to United over and over, they never give up. I don't like watching them (generally, at times they are superb when playing on the counter), i don't like Ferguson, but this club dserves to be a big club and what happened yesterday was unjust.

Am i the only one who really liked both Madrid goals ? Could be biased for the first because Luca is one of my favourite players, but the second was a magnificent combination...
 
for those who wonder what's written on the book

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to me it was certainly a yellow card because it was unintentional. but the book doesn't say anything about intentions here and if you're a ref you must follow the rules. so for a licensed ref, it's a red because it was very dangerous.

edit: just found another thing.

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still I guess the rule at the top applies to nani's incident because he wasn't tackling arbeloa.

:CONF: :THINK:

Dazzlà said:
bad ref, this the same twat that sent gerrard off vs ukraine for fuck all.
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also the one who sent terry off vs barca in the second leg last year.

but gerrard's red was well justified. he made a reckless tackle from behind his opponent and rightly saw the second yellow.
 
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IMO Nani didn't use excessive force.
Besides that the key point IMO is that Nani could not see Arbeloa. How could he use excessive force if he merely went for the ball without knowing there was an opponent.

I will try to make my point with another example: a player with a very hard shot wants to shoot on goal and right at that moment an opponent comes from behind, wants to clear the ball away, but for a fraction of a second his foot/leg is between the opponents foot (who is taking a shot) and the ball. What happens ? The opponent's foot makes an excessive impact with the defenders' foot and the guy has a serious injury. Actually this is exactly what happened to me albeit in futsal (and since in futsal you can go for a ball from behind in that instant there was no doubt, i made the foul) and it meant the end of my football/futsal carreer. In football that is never even a foul by the player that wants to shoot on goal. If i read law 12 the attacking player should have been sent off. Don't forget that those rules are merely theory...
 
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completely agreed to what you meant to say, gerd.

watched the incident once again to see where the ref was at that point, he isn't very close to the scene but he looks to have a good sight there. guess it was just a wrong interpretation from him.
 
please stop this crying attitude
Higuain's goal was disallowed
+
RVP was off-side in MU goal
+
the ball touched Rafael's hand when he cleared RM chance

anyway I'm glad Man Utd scored which made Real Madrid more active and having more will to win ...
 
Regardless of his intentions, that foul could have seriously injured Arbeloa, luckily it didn't, but the fact that there's the potential risk of something like that happening, then IT IS serious foul play. Thus, a red card was justified in my opinion. Just imagine if Nani hit Arbeloa's upper thigh, he could have tore and/or end his career.
 
It would have been fascinating last 30 minutes, I wonder if Mourinho would still have brough Modric on, he could have easily had the same influence 11 v 11.
 
matt1288 said:
Regardless of his intentions, that foul could have seriously injured Arbeloa, luckily it didn't, but the fact that there's the potential risk of something like that happening, then IT IS serious foul play. Thus, a red card was justified in my opinion. Just imagine if Nani hit Arbeloa's upper thigh, he could have tore and/or end his career.
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