Arsenal Thread

[bebo]

Exactly, is paying too much for both of them, an absolute nonsense in my oppinion.

Barcelona won't sell Villa. Probably Rossi is not coming and only Alexis and another player (maybe Cesc, maybe not, it's in Arsenal hands). Barcelona has 45 M€ to spend, and add to that the money the club gets for players like Bojan, Jeffren, Maxwell (if sold), Milito (if any), Jonathan soriano and other boys form la masia that are going away this summer. And add the latest installments for Ibra from Milan (all big clubs always pay late, that's so bloody true).

So, theorically, Barcelona could buy Alexis and Cesc without getting rid of Villa. And if Thiago goes to Arsenal, it's even easier (and you would have the winning end of the swap, but that's my personal oppinion).

my opinion is....

1st Cesc situation seems to be in Barca`s court to be frank.
2nd Thiago will be great but NO Thanks! it will be merry -go-round Cesc part II .
3rd I know you support Arsenal after Barca ,but you must see Cecs is more of a want then a need.Hence why you feel his value is low .

 

[drekkard]

From first day I said Cesc is not a top priority. But sometimes he will be. The moment Xavi can't play a full season, Cesc will be needed. Thiago is a bit different, more like a Iniesta player.

So, as time goes by, Cesc becomes more of a real need for the team. I didn't want them to sign him in the last 2-3 years, but now it begins to feel like it's time to search for a Xavi replacement.

And who would be better than Cesc for that?

About the value, maybe it's because I feel transfers are too hyped. And partly because Cesc has a lot of injuries and it's still to be tested in big games and championships. At least from my point of view. He is undoubtedly a great player, but there's still doubt on wether he can do the final step and become a great star like Xavi or Iniesta. To me, he still has to prove it. That's why I rate him around 35 M€. That would be a fair price in my oppinion. To make a comparison, Xavi or Iniesta would be valued at 50 M€.

Oh, well, at the end it's all relative and Arsenal is right to expect a lot more cash and Barcelona is right trying to pay the minimum. It's a business, at the end of the day.

 

[lazyForken]

TBH I think its a fair price for a men that want to leave and for a midfielder. Yes its quite low since its non-english transfer but when you say ozil got to real madrid for 10millions ( even tough he had 1 year left on hes contract) I think fab with the ordinary season he had and the injuries, its a fair price and more than enough to find remplacement and even get en extra player with it.

 

[jonneymendoza]

From first day I said Cesc is not a top priority. But sometimes he will be. The moment Xavi can't play a full season, Cesc will be needed. Thiago is a bit different, more like a Iniesta player.

So, as time goes by, Cesc becomes more of a real need for the team. I didn't want them to sign him in the last 2-3 years, but now it begins to feel like it's time to search for a Xavi replacement.

And who would be better than Cesc for that?

About the value, maybe it's because I feel transfers are too hyped. And partly because Cesc has a lot of injuries and it's still to be tested in big games and championships. At least from my point of view. He is undoubtedly a great player, but there's still doubt on wether he can do the final step and become a great star like Xavi or Iniesta. To me, he still has to prove it. That's why I rate him around 35 M€. That would be a fair price in my oppinion. To make a comparison, Xavi or Iniesta would be valued at 50 M€.

Oh, well, at the end it's all relative and Arsenal is right to expect a lot more cash and Barcelona is right trying to pay the minimum. It's a business, at the end of the day.

50m for iniesta and xavi? in what world? not this thats for sure. iniest and xavi are close to 80m more like and fabregas 50m.

get your facts straight man, i know where your coming from but when people liek andy carrol and torress go for nearly 100m in total just for those two players, its silly to think fabregas is worth 30m.

 

[beachryan]

I think £35-£40m is the right price for Cesc. It's a balancing act. To start with, there's no way he's worth as much as Cristiano Ronaldo, (or by proxy Messi) which is what you're suggesting with any figure north of £60m.

What makes Cesc expensive to Barcelona:
He is truly world class, creates more chances per minute than any player in the league
He is young, especially for his position
He is Spanish, loves Barca, and would seem unlikely to want to leave
He seems like a nice, stable young man
He is Arsenal's captain
He has a big ole contract

What makes Cesc cheap for Barcelona
He clearly, unashamedly and publicly wants to go
Arsenal have won nothing for almost his whole career - in which time he could have won so much elsewhere, and truly be considered a great
He is underappreciated by his home country
He only wants to go to one place, there will be no bidding war
He has behaved very well through the past few summers despite wanting to go, at some point this should earn him the right to leave
Barca don't need him right now
He's not the marketing dream that a Ronaldo or Messi is

I think these all balance out to around that £35m number. I know it's the same as Andy Carroll, but the circumstances are clearly different. It's about the same as what they paid for David Villa, which is about right.

 

[drekkard]

I think £35-£40m is the right price for Cesc. It's a balancing act. To start with, there's no way he's worth as much as Cristiano Ronaldo, (or by proxy Messi) which is what you're suggesting with any figure north of £60m.

What makes Cesc expensive to Barcelona:
He is truly world class, creates more chances per minute than any player in the league
He is young, especially for his position
He is Spanish, loves Barca, and would seem unlikely to want to leave
He seems like a nice, stable young man
He is Arsenal's captain
He has a big ole contract

What makes Cesc cheap for Barcelona
He clearly, unashamedly and publicly wants to go
Arsenal have won nothing for almost his whole career - in which time he could have won so much elsewhere, and truly be considered a great
He is underappreciated by his home country
He only wants to go to one place, there will be no bidding war
He has behaved very well through the past few summers despite wanting to go, at some point this should earn him the right to leave
Barca don't need him right now
He's not the marketing dream that a Ronaldo or Messi is

I think these all balance out to around that £35m number. I know it's the same as Andy Carroll, but the circumstances are clearly different. It's about the same as what they paid for David Villa, which is about right.

Very fair post, and I agree with almost everything. Add to the "cheap" list that Cesc gets injured often (looking at the last 2 seasons). And I would lower it to 30 M pounds. I know I'm not popular in this thread by saying this, but that's how I see it.

Anyway, IF (note the conditional) Cesc goes away, who would you like as a replacement? You would need someone there. Ozil would have been perfect for you, or Pastore, but the price for the argentinian it's crazyness it seems.

 

[beachryan]

A midfield of a holder (e.g. Song) along with Wilshere and Ramsey, or Wilshere and Nasri is absolutely class enough to cope. I don't think central midfield is where Arsenal would spend the money if they lose Cesc.

If they were smart, they'd sell Cesc for £35m, give Atletico £20m for De Gea and spend £15m on Gary Cahill. That would improve the squad, imo.

 

[gerd]

Pastore would be fantastic.
Zamparini (Palermo's owner) is a big jerk, but here i can understand him. I understand litle clubs like Palermo or Udinese. They keep on finding these litle gems all over the world. They build a good team, sometimes have success and become the victim of their own success (Udinese). I understand that they want big money from these huge clubs.

Take the example of Racing Genk in Belgium. They become champions with attractive football and with 5 or 6 players that come from their youth academy. Next year they will have to defend their title and all their good players will be gone. They will become the laughing stock because as "a big club" they underperform because they need to rebuild. I think all these litle clubs have good reason to ask crazy amount of money (so does Arsenal).

 

[jonneymendoza]

I think £35-£40m is the right price for Cesc. It's a balancing act. To start with, there's no way he's worth as much as Cristiano Ronaldo, (or by proxy Messi) which is what you're suggesting with any figure north of £60m.

What makes Cesc expensive to Barcelona:
He is truly world class, creates more chances per minute than any player in the league
He is young, especially for his position
He is Spanish, loves Barca, and would seem unlikely to want to leave
He seems like a nice, stable young man
He is Arsenal's captain
He has a big ole contract

What makes Cesc cheap for Barcelona
He clearly, unashamedly and publicly wants to go
Arsenal have won nothing for almost his whole career - in which time he could have won so much elsewhere, and truly be considered a great
He is underappreciated by his home country
He only wants to go to one place, there will be no bidding war
He has behaved very well through the past few summers despite wanting to go, at some point this should earn him the right to leave
Barca don't need him right now
He's not the marketing dream that a Ronaldo or Messi is

I think these all balance out to around that £35m number. I know it's the same as Andy Carroll, but the circumstances are clearly different. It's about the same as what they paid for David Villa, which is about right.

no i said fab is worth 50m not 80m.

c ronaldo is now worth 100m and messi is somewhere like 150m+.

50m for fab is a fair price. i point you directly to how much torres cost? andy carroll anyone?

How can we sell fabregas and expect to buy an equally gifted player for 30m? what player thats similar to fabregas we can buy for 30m?

none. any player as good as fab is priced well above 30m like it or not. you have got to estimate price of a player based on the cost of a replacement. if andy carroll an unproven player is worth 30m your telling me fab is the same despite being proven world class player with a world cup and euro medal to boot?

 

[YoungGun_UK]

I think he's worth a little more than Villa mainly due to age. 40M is a fair price and I reckon it'll be around that amount.

 

[Milanista]

Clichy to Roma eh? Seems very likely.

 

[beachryan]

no i said fab is worth 50m not 80m.

c ronaldo is now worth 100m and messi is somewhere like 150m+.

50m for fab is a fair price. i point you directly to how much torres cost? andy carroll anyone?

How can we sell fabregas and expect to buy an equally gifted player for 30m? what player thats similar to fabregas we can buy for 30m?

none. any player as good as fab is priced well above 30m like it or not. you have got to estimate price of a player based on the cost of a replacement. if andy carroll an unproven player is worth 30m your telling me fab is the same despite being proven world class player with a world cup and euro medal to boot?

Again with the Andy Carroll argument. The fact with Carroll is that he cost whatever Liverpool got from Torres, and the deal had to be done in about 2 hours. There will never (hopefully) be the same circumstances again, you just can't compare it.

And saying a team should never sell someone for less than what they value their replacement at is a very strange argument. If there was another 'Fabregas' out there and available for less money, economics dictates that Barca should go for them. That's not how transfers work at all.

Anyway we'll see. I could see him going for as much as £40m, but could also see something like £35m. I guess time will tell.

 

[Milanista]

I agree with Beachryan here. I think these figures are being taken for granted. I can see Fab going for around £30m-£35m + maybe a player or two. Not all teams want to throw silly money around unless they're Chelsea, City or Real.

 

[bebo]

Some reasonably good news to start you off this morning. Sandra’s been talking again and he’s playing hardball over Cesc. Basically he’s saying Arsenal accept what’s on offer or Cesc will stay put. Speaking to Catalan TV, he said:

I don’t know if Cesc will sign or not. We’ll offer less than €40m and if Arsenal don’t agee, then Cesc will not come. We have €45m for signings, plus money from sales. There is no more money.

Which is good news for us, let’s face it. If reports are to be believed it seems as if they’re going for Alexis Sanchez from Udinese, which will cost them an estimated €30m of their €45m. That’s a rather significant chunk of their transfer budget and once again, as they did with Villa last summer, they’re making it fairly clear that Cesc is not their number 1 target, he’s not their priority.

If he were they’d bid for him first, simple as that. And as I keep saying, they’d also make a bid which is closer to his actual value rather than the one they’ve simply invented for him. One small clarification to what’s being reported this morning – there are quotes from Rosell saying Cesc is ‘doing all he can’ to come to Barcelona. He didn’t say that. He said Cesc has a ‘great desire’ to come to Barcelona, but aside from that, it’s not up to Cesc. It’s never been up to Cesc.

It comes down to whether Barcelona want him enough to match Arsenal’s valuation of the player and at the moment it seems fairly obvious that they don’t. They keep going public, they keep repeating this as if the more they say it the greater the possibility we might change our minds. And rather dismissively, he says:

Pep knows that Cesc is not worth €40m.

Well, here’s the thing. He is. And more. So, we’re back to the point we’ve arrived at a number of times already this summer. Cough up or cock off. Either pay what he’s worth – what we decide he’s worth, based on all the factors and not just Barcelona’s idealistic ‘He used to play for us as a kid so we shouldn’t have to pay so much for him’ nonsense – or just stop talking about it and move on.

If they were trying to sign a player of Cesc’s quality, with no Barcelona history, no background etc, you can be quite sure they’d be prepared to pay what it takes. Where he came from, where he grew up, none of it is relevant in a football sense. CUoCO.

sums it up quite well!

 

[BobbyBox]

I would be happy with £35 mill pounds and a player or maybe £30 million and that Thiago dude (Is that his name?) he sounds quite tasty.

We know Barca aren't going to budge much and Fab is desperate to go, so I think it is best allround. but if they are just buying outright, I would want £40 mill. the stats show out of all the players in the top 5 leagues over the last 5 years, Fab has the best assist rate, that has to be priceless

I know that Barca would pay that amount for Fab if he didn't have that connection with Barca.

But all this 'Fab is doing everything he can to move to them' talk from the Barca side?! if that isn't disrespectful I don't know what is? they should of learned from last year that they should keep their mouths shut.

Of course they should try and get him for as cheap price as possible, but saying stuff like this is over stepping the mark entirely. Barca lack class in this situation and I don't care what anybody says

 

[jonneymendoza]

I agree with Beachryan here. I think these figures are being taken for granted. I can see Fab going for around £30m-£35m + maybe a player or two. Not all teams want to throw silly money around unless they're Chelsea, City or Real.

Yea but your not getting the point.

none of you are as far as i can tell. what player of equal quality of fabregas can we get for 30m.

name me just one creative midfielder that arsenal can buy for 30m.

 

[Lami]

name me just one creative midfielder that arsenal can buy for 30m.

Too bad he's retired now

 

[Milanista]

Aquilani.

 

[Liverbird]

And he was very close to Arsenal, but Wenger ended going for Nasri that transfer.

 

[bebo]

Barca wants David (Chelsea) now, lol Just waiting to hear from Sandra `s valuation price tag. Cesc becomes less n less wanted

 

[gerd]

name me just one creative midfielder that arsenal can buy for 30m.

Modric
Van Der Vaart
Pjanic
Pastore
Guarin
Aquilani
Ganso

and i must have forgotten dozens of other creative midfielders.
Are they better than Fabregas at this moment? Perhaps not, but that is the art of transeferring, picking players that will become tomorrow's stars...that is the reason why Bacelona is doing better than Real Madrid. That is also the reason why i think Man City will not win big things and why Chelsea in the end did not get what Abramovich wanted most: the CL.
I've always defended Wenger, but since two seasons he knows that Barcelona wants Fabregas and Fabregas wants Barcelona..he should have bought a replacement...because in the end (might be not this season), Fabregas will leave...everybody with a litle bit of common sense realises that.

Oh and what about Wilshere...

 

[drekkard]

Snejder could be under 30 M€ too. And would fit perfectly in Arsenal. In fact, with Snejder, a proper striker and a good defender the squad would do a big jump up. If you sell Nasri as well, you could sign up to 4 players that would lift the team.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Modric
Van Der Vaart
Pjanic
Pastore
Guarin
Aquilani
Ganso

and i must have forgotten dozens of other creative midfielders.
Are they better than Fabregas at this moment? Perhaps not, but that is the art of transeferring, picking players that will become tomorrow's stars...that is the reason why Bacelona is doing better than Real Madrid. That is also the reason why i think Man City will not win big things and why Chelsea in the end did not get what Abramovich wanted most: the CL.
I've always defended Wenger, but since two seasons he knows that Barcelona wants Fabregas and Fabregas wants Barcelona..he should have bought a replacement...because in the end (might be not this season), Fabregas will leave...everybody with a litle bit of common sense realises that.

Oh and what about Wilshere...

You seriously think modric and VDV will join arsenal for 30m? spurs have said modric is not for sale at any price.

About the others, i have not seen them play but if they are as good as fabregas and aged similar then why haven't wenger snapped one of those players yet?

You honestly think we can buy any of those players for 30m? if so i will bite my hat off but tbh i doubt it. if those players are indeed as good as fabregas, they wont go for less then 40m

 

[beachryan]

I still don't follow your logic. It seems to be that transfers should only happen if club A can replace their outgoing player with a better option for less than or equal the value of the sale.

That's not how it works at all in football. There are dozens of other factors that must be taken into account.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I still don't follow your logic. It seems to be that transfers should only happen if club A can replace their outgoing player with a better option for less than or equal the value of the sale.

That's not how it works at all in football. There are dozens of other factors that must be taken into account.

Like what?

why sell our captain for peanuts when others are happily selling a player of equal or less quality for more?

it makes it HARDER for us to find a replacement that can jump in and start producing the goods. that is why is important to sell fabregas at a price where we can use that money and buy a "ready made world class" creative midfielder, not a player that just left high school.

at the moment, 30m is too low. imo we wont get another read made world class player for 30m. not in this day and age. When players like xavi and inesta are worth close to what? 100m, 30m for fabregas? come on. i know xavi and inesta are better bu 3 times better? no i dont think so.

Good on arsenal for standing their ground. 30m lol fuck off barcelona.

 

[gerd]

What usually happens when clubs are standing their ground is that in the end the player becomes fed up, underperforms and leaves finally for a lesser amount that what was initially proposed and usually at a time when his old club has less time to search a good replacement. The club always ends up loosing more money. What Arsenal is doing is not the smartest thing to do. They might get away with it (for now) because Fabregas is a model professional...

 

[jonneymendoza]

So modric will eventually go then? seeing as his making more noise then fabregas.

club as in arsenal wont lose much. how much did we pay for fabregas? peanuts.

Nasri is the only one in danger of making a loss

 

[gerd]

It would indeed be wise to let Modric go... as much as it would break my heart (he is my favourite player and that before he joined Spurs).
Arsenal will not loose much, but in the end you will see that they could have earned more...that is wat i meant by "loosing money" (and IMO that is loosing money).

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yea but if city come up with 50m for fabregas. he will go their instead.

 

[Lami]

That would be pointless, imo.