Arsenal Thread

This is the format for Argentine football:

-Seasons are played like European football, starting around August/September and ending in May/June (Independiente got relegated on June 15th, with one match left)
-A full season is not played, but it is divided in two tournaments, currently named Inicial and Final, in which the two champions play what we call a "Superfinal" to decide who's the winner, something new to season 2012/13, in which Vélez defeated Newell's on penalty shootout.
-Promotion is very simple; the three best-positioned teams on the Torneo Nacional B, which is a full season, get promoted to the Primera División.
-Now, relegation is bureaucratic shit for me. The last three seasons are averaged, and the worst three averages get relegated. As an example, River Plate ended up last on the Apertura 2008 after becoming champions the previous Clausura of that year, and got relegated three years later because of that fucking tournament, which would not have happened if seasons were full. Same shit with Independiente and Apertura 2010, at the same time they won the Sudamericana.
-To show how complex is this averages thing, last year Tigre could have won the championship and get relegated at the same time, though in the end none happened.

So, as you see, all this is utter crap. Now they're planning to extend it up to between 32 and 42 teams. I hope, for the love of my country, that none of that happens...
 
user name 99 said:
This is the format for Argentine football:

-Seasons are played like European football, starting around August/September and ending in May/June (Independiente got relegated on June 15th, with one match left)
-A full season is not played, but it is divided in two tournaments, currently named Inicial and Final, in which the two champions play what we call a "Superfinal" to decide who's the winner, something new to season 2012/13, in which Vélez defeated Newell's on penalty shootout.
-Promotion is very simple; the three best-positioned teams on the Torneo Nacional B, which is a full season, get promoted to the Primera División.
-Now, relegation is bureaucratic shit for me. The last three seasons are averaged, and the worst three averages get relegated. As an example, River Plate ended up last on the Apertura 2008 after becoming champions the previous Clausura of that year, and got relegated three years later because of that fucking tournament, which would not have happened if seasons were full. Same shit with Independiente and Apertura 2010, at the same time they won the Sudamericana.
-To show how complex is this averages thing, last year Tigre could have won the championship and get relegated at the same time, though in the end none happened.

So, as you see, all this is utter crap. Now they're planning to extend it up to between 32 and 42 teams. I hope, for the love of my country, that none of that happens...
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That's madness! Crazier than I thought this system of average. Three years is too long a period, especially in football. A team can go from heaven to hell in one year, but they should at least be able to fight to their strengths to stay up based on that season's result.
I imagine some managers who take over a club that did horribly in the past (under another manager) and they improve things a lot, to the point of being contenders, yet being haunted by the past. Must be the case of Tigre, as you mentioned.
Argentina needs a new format for relegations, excluding this average system. But as for the calendar, I agree with it. It should start together with Europe, on August.

As for the Superfinal, I've always thought it was something similar to a Community Shield in England, instead of a real final. That's interesting though. It adds excitement to a season, even if a team runs away with it in the league table, there's always the final looming ahead.
I suppose that a final is only avoided when a team wins both legs of the tournament, right?

And I do hope they don't increase the number of teams. This is utter madness. It's like having Series A and B crammed together in one league. The quality of the league would seriously drop.
 
I will answer your point in order.

Rentboy said:
That's madness! Crazier than I thought this system of average. Three years is too long a period, especially in football. A team can go from heaven to hell in one year, but they should at least be able to fight to their strengths to stay up based on that season's result.
I imagine some managers who take over a club that did horribly in the past (under another manager) and they improve things a lot, to the point of being contenders, yet being haunted by the past. Must be the case of Tigre, as you mentioned.
Argentina needs a new format for relegations, excluding this average system. But as for the calendar, I agree with it. It should start together with Europe, on August.
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We definitely need it. Probably we need a long tournament like in Europe. Now, if it's going to be done, I profoundly doubt it. AFA is a mafia in itself.

Rentboy said:
As for the Superfinal, I've always thought it was something similar to a Community Shield in England, instead of a real final. That's interesting though. It adds excitement to a season, even if a team runs away with it in the league table, there's always the final looming ahead.
I suppose that a final is only avoided when a team wins both legs of the tournament, right?
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Actually, we have a "Community Shield", we call it the Supercup, and it is played between the Superfinal winner and the Copa Argentina winner

Regarding the Superfinal, your point proved to be wrong. Almost nobody cared about the Superfinal (I don't even care about the tournament except my club :P) since it got extremely low ratings on TV and radio.

Rentboy said:
And I do hope they don't increase the number of teams. This is utter madness. It's like having Series A and B crammed together in one league. The quality of the league would seriously drop.
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Please not. It's like when Platini suggested to play a 40-team World Cup. It would completely lose its scent, its magic, the little it still has.
 
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I remember watching WCs with 24 teams, but that's just me getting too old :LOL:

I wouldn't like to see more teams in a World Cup - the group stages would look like "Congress of Football" including nations that would get torn apart by the more powerful teams. It's already a bit like this IMO.
I think it would be pointless, as the WC qualifiers serve the purpose of selecting the best - and FIFA try to instil the feeling that the Qualifiers are already part of the WC, and they call the WC itself "WC Finals". But meh… I don't buy it :P

One thing is having 40 teams in a Cup format. Another is having 40 in a League format. That would be madness indeed.

Anyway, in Arsenal news, now it's been revealed we are to play the FA Cup tie against them Spurs on 2nd January! Tough draw right away. As if the schedule wasn't hectic enough. Here we go!
We'll be playing at home. It would be very nice to win and keep fighting on the FA Cup front.
 
@Rentboy

Imagine, for example, the UEFA Europa League. It's already BORING with 48 first, second and third-class European teams. In fact, it is much more entertaining to play WEFA Masters Cup with 16 teams that this UEL with 48 on the group stage!

As for the World Cup starting three years earlier (for Europeans it's one or two), I don't believe it either, but I can't deny that in the last few years the South American qualifiers have become the hardest and toughest of them all, since all the teams have to face each other and their level is pretty much the same (I wished Venezuela to qualify, what a pity).
 
gerd said:
I have seen WC's with 16 clubs, that was the case until 1982 (first tournament with 24 teams).
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Must be cool being able to remember the 1982 WC. I wish I'd witnessed that. When I ask my father about it, all I can hear is Paolo Rossi and curse words towards Toninho Cerezo :LOL:


user name 99 said:
@Rentboy

Imagine, for example, the UEFA Europa League. It's already BORING with 48 first, second and third-class European teams. In fact, it is much more entertaining to play WEFA Masters Cup with 16 teams that this UEL with 48 on the group stage!

As for the World Cup starting three years earlier (for Europeans it's one or two), I don't believe it either, but I can't deny that in the last few years the South American qualifiers have become the hardest and toughest of them all, since all the teams have to face each other and their level is pretty much the same (I wished Venezuela to qualify, what a pity).
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Europa League is aimed at giving more opportunities to smaller teams to make some revenue. Therefore, some very small teams are demolished by strong sides from England or Spain. Almost like Orient drawing Chelsea in the FA Cup. They get destroyed but they still make some good matchday revenue.
This isn't a bad idea. But I have my doubts when Platini wants to include some smaller teams in the Champions League too, by a different system of seeding.
I have mixed feelings about this. It's good to give opportunities for smaller teams to increase revenue, but the quality of the tournament suffers from it - at least until they get more or less levelled.

As for the South American qualifiers, I think it's getting harder and harder too. For instance, Uruguay finished 5th... and Brazil wasn't in it!
And yet somehow, Uruguay ended up as a top seed. This sort of thing is really confusing.
 
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Horrible result heading into the weekend having to face Man City at home. Don't think it should effect us much though.

Real Madrid, Athletico, Barca, PSG, and Bayern are some names I didnt want to see so early on. But we'd have to meet them sooner or later, so I'm excited to see who we get in the draw.
 
draw of your next possible CL oponents:

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:LOL: sorry but you should be thankful for that guys. you were too close to europa league had napoli been a little bit more awake.
 
Kanouté said:
:LOL: sorry but you should be thankful for that guys. you were too close to europa league had napoli been a little bit more awake.
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Napoli in the 1st half hardly did anything. The 2nd was a bit better and once they scored, they stop playing even with 10 men. It was almost on the 86th minute mark they made an effort.

Wenger is to blame imo , he didn`t respond. Theo was on the bench and playing Arteta+Flamini meant less going forward and sitting back. Arteta :R1:NO:

I seriously wonder if Wenger was thinking about Saturdays trip to manCity then tonight`s match. No fight tonight:YAWN:
 
Ah, what a crock of shit. At least we are through, but i really don't fancy our chances much over two legs against the teams that came first. :PP
 
Arsenal4Life said:
Horrible result heading into the weekend having to face Man City at home. Don't think it should effect us much though.

Real Madrid, Athletico, Barca, PSG, and Bayern are some names I didnt want to see so early on. But we'd have to meet them sooner or later, so I'm excited to see who we get in the draw.
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Well, yes we could have ended up meeting them later on. But also, they could have been eliminated earlier on, increasing our chance of getting an easier draw. Also, it may be better to meet tougher teams later on once we built up some momentum.

Just last season we suffered from this by drawing Bayern by losing the 1st place spot to Shakthar. Also, seecuring 1st would have been a testament to the team's mentality. It's not good to let it slip up like this.
 
We just needed to hold them to a draw, we were complete favourites to top that group. Aw f*ck, shit!!
Incredible that a team with 12 points has to go out, I feel sorry for Napoli. But better them than us :P

I think it was a close one for every club involved in this. IMO the luckiest of them all was Dortmund. Their winning goal only came with a few minutes left and it was a fluke. The Marseille keeper will be disappointed to have let it in.
If it wasn't for that strike of luck, it would have been their asses.

As for our match, we didn't play well but the ref made things a lot worse for us. Arteta's second booking was a sham! Not even in the softest leagues it would have warranted a booking and I could sense the ref wanted to fuck us over.

We weren't good with 11 men, but with 10 men it became a real nightmare. Thankfully further damage was averted.

Now let's see which Arsenal turns up at the Emptyhad. It's unpredictable, I've seen this team take things hard and not respond well, and I've seen it picking itself up and kick some ass right away. Let's hope for the latter :D
 
AK.Rabona said:
Also, seecuring 1st would have been a testament to the team's mentality. It's not good to let it slip up like this.
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Fucking mentality.. I'm tired of this from a supporters stand point. When the fuck is this gonna be put in the rear view. Wenger is to blame for what happened today. It's up to him to make sure the "mentality" of the team doesn't treat this game as a let's not lose too bad game, which I felt he did. Same as the Bayern coach did against us last year. Someone namely Wenger has to make sure we come to win. He said in the press conference before the game, we want to qualify first and if we win the group the then thats great too. I really was disappointed to hear that, maybe the players were too. He should always say we want to win no matter what the situation. We better have a "lets come to play mentality" on Sat. or we are gonna get a schoolboy hammering at the Etihad.
 
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Arsenal4Life said:
Fucking mentality.. I'm tired of this from a supporters stand point. When the fuck is this gonna be put in the rear view. Wenger is to blame for what happened today. It's up to him to make sure the "mentality" of the team doesn't treat this game as a let's not lose too bad game, which I felt he did. Same as the Bayern coach did against us last year. Someone namely Wenger has to make sure we come to win. He said in the press conference before the game, we want to qualify first and if we win the group the then thats great too. I really was disappointed to hear that, maybe the players were too. He should always say we want to win no matter what the situation. We better have a "lets come to play mentality" on Sat. or we are gonna get a schoolboy hammering at the Etihad.
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That is not your brightest post...
For some people the manager is always to blame.
At the draw 90% of the football fans would have predicted a third place at best from this group of death.
Arsenal are proud leaders and progress from the toughest group and it is still not enough and of course Wenger is to blame...but of course Arsenal 4 life.
 
I think the players had a bad day overall. The team didn't play well, simple as that.
Now add to it the fact that the ref was more than happy to fuck us over. That Hungarian ref Victor Kassai, I remember why I don't like him. We have "weird" matches when he officiates.
I saw some stats from @7amkickoff: he officiated 3 Arsenal matches against Braga, Milan and Napoli. Arsenal scored 0 goals, and the 3 opponents combined scored 8 goals.
Coincidence? Maybe.
But from what I saw in this match, I don't like it one bit. Many Napoli fouls not given and that fella Behrami had licence to kill. He commited 5 fouls (given by the ref, that is) and wasn't booked. Arteta commited 2 fouls and got a yellow for each. And the 2nd one was ludicrous!
Fucking mug that ref is.

I won't blame Wenger too much (ok, he coukd have played Walcott) but it was always going to be hard playing on an uninspired day against a very good side, away, and against a ill intentioned ref apparently.
 
gerd said:
That is not your brightest post...
For some people the manager is always to blame.
At the draw 90% of the football fans would have predicted a third place at best from this group of death.
Arsenal are proud leaders and progress from the toughest group and it is still not enough and of course Wenger is to blame...but of course Arsenal 4 life.
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Your right about the brightest post part, and speaking from the heart will do that. I just don't think Wenger put the team in the right frame of mind for this game. But as I stated right after the game, we have to face the best sooner or later, and I'm excited to see who we get in the draw.
 
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I'm opimist about Atlético though. As an Argentinean and Independiente fan, I like to see Simeone, who is a Racing legend, to progress in European football, but if that means to face us, fuck off with him.
 
It's not a banker to put money on Arsenal in a match vs Atlético Madrid but they do seem like the easiest of them. Arsenal put themselves in a predicament to be honest.
 
I'm not concerned about this draw. I'm sure we will get Barcelona or Bayern, with our luck. Dammit, even when we topped our group I remember we were drawn against Milan, the strongest of runners-up.

We have to put this behind us and think about beating City at their ground. That would go a long way to putting our nerves back in place :D
 
interesting period for Arsenal now, dropped points at home to Everton, defeat in naples and now face probably the toughest domestic fixture of the season against City away, I suspect City will win and then that's two on the bounce.

let's see how much of that 'mental strength' you really have.
 
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