Arsenal Thread

[bebo]

I don't get this guy. Didn't he beg to move away from Arsenal? Fabregas is the same but at least Cesc had the excuse of leaving to his home club.

clearly he like Arsenal as a club I`m sure he has good mates there too! I think the wages was so good to turn away. If there was a salary cap. Football would be such a different game imo.

 

[Rantboy]

Wenger was quoted saying now 4th place is a "trophy". If he really said that, he should know better, as this is insulting. An achievement it is, but a trophy? Never, for a club which won the league 13 times.

Silent Stan's jetting in this week. Something needs to be done real quick and we have to work with what we have until summer. If we get the "trophy" 4th place, Wenger gets to stay and we play CL qualifiers. And with that prospect the board and manager will have to act FAST. Show real intent from the start of the transfer window and make sure RVP stays, offering him a decent new contract - his current one is 70k a week? I saw bebo posting something like this? Is this true? I refuse to believe he's on the same money as a chump like Diaby!!

Until we the next window, we have to work with what we have and I think the main target is to recover our best players. I really think honestly Arshavin should be given a go at 2nd striker role behind RVP. Then we change to 4-4-2. Our wingers and "passing mentality are innocuous and predictable" (Bergkamp, D. 2012)
I agree with the Dutchman on most of the things he pointed out in his interview. Our players are too similar indeed. We need more diversity. But then again, this is to be sorted next summer.

What can be done before summer is bringing in some specialist defensive coach, or something. As individuals, the defenders aren't bad at all, but as a team, the whole thing is a mess! The organisation and attitude of the back four has to improve, especially now we won't have Mertesacker (our most intelligent defender) for the rest of the season.
If the defence needs more cover, then all the more reason to switch to a 4-4-2!

The shortcomings of this 4-3-3 system are much more obvious than its positives.

Also, for now we should be using the Ox more and more, giving him at least 45 minutes each game. He's too young, green and rough, I know, but he already has more attitude than Walcott, Rosicky and Chamakh put together.
Cocquelin should be used more often when he recovers too. He has the right attitude.

This team is crying for Wilshere to come back, which I hope he does soon. Then Ramsey can be used more sparingly and do his thing - he can't be counted on to contribute 90mins week in, week out, but he still provides us with something important now and then (his goal against Sunderland springs to mind).

I think we need to get rid of a lot of people like Rosicky, Diaby, Squilla, Fabianski, Almunia...
Bendtner, Denilson, Lansbury and Vela are all out on loan and should be sold on permanent deals this summer. Those guys can't get near this club again, that would be a mistake.
And Chamakh and Park: if they're behind even Walcott in the pecking order for a CF spot, then that says a lot!! If what they show in training isn't good enough, then just ship them out.
Even if we loose money in the process, we have to cut our losses anyway.

You guys see, we have a lot of dead wood to shift. It can't be all done in one summer , but the revolution has to start ASAP!
Like Emmanuel Petit said in an interview, send out strong signals, send these guys who aren't good enough straight away, Out the door!

Even though Petit mentioned Arshavin in his interview - and I think this week has shown us Arshavin is the least of our problems, it hardly boils down to him. When he didn't play in those last 2 matches, we had our worst performances anyway. And his latest appearance saw him giving a vital assist.
All in all, I think Arshavin is one of the few guys in our squad who "has it in him" and just needs to be recovered. It's better to do so still this season, and if he doens't respond, we can sell him this summer, get some of the investment back, but at least in the knowledge that we tried to recover one good player.

The rest of the season now is all about finishing 4th. But more than that, this team has to show something very special indeed in the process. It's time to show what they're made of: the players and Wenger.

Most of us agreed this season was "make or break" for Wenger. So unless Arsenal pick themselves up and show something very special and convince fans with committed performances, culminating in a 4th place, that should be it for Wenger. If he fails to grab 4th, and we see Arsenal making the same mistakes over and over again... I think AW will have to go.

 

[BobbyBox]

Wenger was quoted saying now 4th place is a "trophy". If he really said that, he should know better, as this is insulting. An achievement it is, but a trophy? Never, for a club which won the league 13 times.

Silent Stan's jetting in this week. Something needs to be done real quick and we have to work with what we have until summer. If we get the "trophy" 4th place, Wenger gets to stay and we play CL qualifiers. And with that prospect the board and manager will have to act FAST. Show real intent from the start of the transfer window and make sure RVP stays, offering him a decent new contract - his current one is 70k a week? I saw bebo posting something like this? Is this true? I refuse to believe he's on the same money as a chump like Diaby!!

Until we the next window, we have to work with what we have and I think the main target is to recover our best players. I really think honestly Arshavin should be given a go at 2nd striker role behind RVP. Then we change to 4-4-2. Our wingers and "passing mentality are innocuous and predictable" (Bergkamp, D. 2012)
I agree with the Dutchman on most of the things he pointed out in his interview. Our players are too similar indeed. We need more diversity. But then again, this is to be sorted next summer.

What can be done before summer is bringing in some specialist defensive coach, or something. As individuals, the defenders aren't bad at all, but as a team, the whole thing is a mess! The organisation and attitude of the back four has to improve, especially now we won't have Mertesacker (our most intelligent defender) for the rest of the season.
If the defence needs more cover, then all the more reason to switch to a 4-4-2!

The shortcomings of this 4-3-3 system are much more obvious than its positives.

Also, for now we should be using the Ox more and more, giving him at least 45 minutes each game. He's too young, green and rough, I know, but he already has more attitude than Walcott, Rosicky and Chamakh put together.
Cocquelin should be used more often when he recovers too. He has the right attitude.

This team is crying for Wilshere to come back, which I hope he does soon. Then Ramsey can be used more sparingly and do his thing - he can't be counted on to contribute 90mins week in, week out, but he still provides us with something important now and then (his goal against Sunderland springs to mind).

I think we need to get rid of a lot of people like Rosicky, Diaby, Squilla, Fabianski, Almunia...
Bendtner, Denilson, Lansbury and Vela are all out on loan and should be sold on permanent deals this summer. Those guys can't get near this club again, that would be a mistake.
And Chamakh and Park: if they're behind even Walcott in the pecking order for a CF spot, then that says a lot!! If what they show in training isn't good enough, then just ship them out.
Even if we loose money in the process, we have to cut our losses anyway.

You guys see, we have a lot of dead wood to shift. It can't be all done in one summer , but the revolution has to start ASAP!
Like Emmanuel Petit said in an interview, send out strong signals, send these guys who aren't good enough straight away, Out the door!

Even though Petit mentioned Arshavin in his interview - and I think this week has shown us Arshavin is the least of our problems, it hardly boils down to him. When he didn't play in those last 2 matches, we had our worst performances anyway. And his latest appearance saw him giving a vital assist.
All in all, I think Arshavin is one of the few guys in our squad who "has it in him" and just needs to be recovered. It's better to do so still this season, and if he doens't respond, we can sell him this summer, get some of the investment back, but at least in the knowledge that we tried to recover one good player.

The rest of the season now is all about finishing 4th. But more than that, this team has to show something very special indeed in the process. It's time to show what they're made of: the players and Wenger.

Most of us agreed this season was "make or break" for Wenger. So unless Arsenal pick themselves up and show something very special and convince fans with committed performances, culminating in a 4th place, that should be it for Wenger. If he fails to grab 4th, and we see Arsenal making the same mistakes over and over again... I think AW will have to go.

It definately isn't a trophy and Wenger needs to stop saying it, because it winds people up. But he means that 4th spot for the club is much more important than FA cup and League cup. If we won both cups and came 5th then our chances of getting top players are slim for the next season.

getting 4th place or above is critical for any team that wants to bring in the best players and to finance them with both buying and salaries. So I wouldn't say it is insulting, but like Arseblog said, saying it after you have just basically been knocked out of two cup competitions is not the right wording that should be used.

I would like to see a change of formation aswell and also Arshavin to play aswell. We need to freshen up and shake up alot of players.

Van Persie might be on 70k because when he was given his new contract he was very injury prone, if he was banging in the goals and not getting injured I'm sure he would have been on much better wages.

People moan at Wenger for losing Hleb, Flamini etc but if he would have paid them 100k a week and they would have been flops, then you would all be moaning at him again! Bendtner and Diaby showed alot of potential and got deals to reflect that and to keep them at Arsenal, if Wenger had not put them on those deals and they played amazingly, then people would moan that Wenger didn't tie them down when he had the chance. It is a very fine line.

People keep moaning about Djourou getting a new 2 YEAR deal?! a season and a half ago he was showing what he was all about and showed he is a very good player. He has been hit heavily by people seeing him play at right back and his confidence has been effected since.

Our players confidence is shot, because whenever they make a few mistakes our supporters descend on them like vultures and pick away at them. Scillachi is a nervous wreck when he steps on the field now, how awful must it be knowing that everybody thinks you are going to fuck up? you are not going to play very well. The same goes with Arshavin.

We have injuries all over the place in defence and have done all season. Arsene needs to pick a back 4 from what he has and train them into the ground on how to work together and be a unit. The rest of the team also need to know what is expected of them when the ball is in our third, it needs to become second nature to them.

We need to get a result against Spurs, even a draw. If we lose, I really think that will be it for our team, as their confidence will then be rock bottom and the fans will be pissing and moaning and blaming players and the manager and not supporting the team and it will just get worse and worse.

Anyway, I really hope we can get 4th and Wenger stays and spends in the summer and revitalises the team. In our next 3 league games we play Spurs Liverpool and Newcastle, so we should have a bit more of a clearer picture after those games what our chances are.

 

[pes4lyfe]

. I really think honestly Arshavin should be given a go at 2nd striker role behind RVP..

the thing is really RVP is a 2nd striker also ha.

Though yeh he can and has done a good job as a proper center forward.

Its worth trying. I guess Arshavin Has more about him than Chamack or Park but off course playing them would allow RVP to drop a bit deeper.

However an on form Arshavin+RVP is more threatigning.

 

[gerd]

I don't understand why Arshavin did not play as he gave the vital assist in the match against Sunderland...

That said i can understand Wenger speaking about 4th place being a trophy, considering the budget of the other big teams compared to Arsenal's budget. But it wasn't the wisest thing to say and certainly not now. I have often the impression that Wenger is not really a diplomat, he is rather clumsy in what he says...I don't like Ferguson at all, but in this aspect of the game Wenger could learn alot from him.

I completely agree with Bobby about the influence the fans have on the player's confidence. It seems as if in the recent past Arsenal's fans were spoiled too much. Before Wenger Arsenal was called "boring Arsenal" here on the continent. And a 1-0 win was called "an Arsenal score". This says it all...Arsenal won silverware (occasionally) but mostly with boring, dire football...

PS: Bobby, how is life in Israël?

 

[BobbyBox]

PS: Bobby, how is life in Israël?

Yeah not bad, Just trying to find permanant work at the moment. The weather has been crap, they haven't seen this much rain here for years! it's great for the country as they are always short of water, but rubbish for me Last winter it was really hot.

It should be getting sunny soon though and I am going on a intensive Hebrew course in a couple of weeks, for 5 days (Half days) a week for the next 5 months! so that will be nice. I can't wait for that.

 

[Rantboy]

It should be getting sunny soon though and I am going on a intensive Hebrew course in a couple of weeks, for 5 days (Half days) a week for the next 5 months! so that will be nice. I can't wait for that.

Then you can write some words of support to Yossi Benayoun
I didn't get why he hasn't been used by Wenger either.

You're right Bobby, regarding the players that Wenger let slip away. How Flamini and Hleb must regret leaving Arsenal!... when you look at their careers right now.
Although of those 2 only Flamini would be worth keeping IMO. That guy was a fighter and a heck of an utility player, he could be deployed virtually anywhere!

But I do think with Bendtner, Diaby and Denilson, it was pretty clear they didn't have what it takes. I think they're not good enough for Arsenal, they are mediocre at best. They were more like a part of the transition - they would do the job for that moment only, but would be replaced by better players at some point. And if some other club came along to lure them away, so be it... But the club gave in and ended up paying unrealistic wages for their profile and capabilities. When we saw them getting those big fat contracts, it was alarming.
Apparently we had a bid from Turkey for Diaby last summer... it was something like £10m. I said "take it now!!!", but AW seems to insist with him. He's hell bent in making a superstar out of Diaby...

@pes4lyfe: RvP is the hottest property in terms of attackers at the moment. I used to dislike him in the CF role, as he wasn't a natural in this position (and he still drifts away from the 6-yard box until today). But he definitely learned how to position himself inside the box and his goal scoring record speaks for itself. I say play Arshavin with him upfront! Or if we use Chamakh, RvP drops behind him, but we have to make sure our wide players are putting in good crosses, otherwise it's a waste of time.

I still think we should trade Chamakh (who can do better at any other Premier League club that uses aerial play). Maybe give him + cash for Yakubu? The Nigerian is no world beater, but he has played very well, he's physically strong, can score all kinds of goals and he's good at holding the ball or doing the pivot. Think of an attacking duo of him and RvP!

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yeah not bad, Just trying to find permanant work at the moment. The weather has been crap, they haven't seen this much rain here for years! it's great for the country as they are always short of water, but rubbish for me Last winter it was really hot.

It should be getting sunny soon though and I am going on a intensive Hebrew course in a couple of weeks, for 5 days (Half days) a week for the next 5 months! so that will be nice. I can't wait for that.

what the hell are you doing all over their!

get your but back in London!

I don't understand why Arshavin did not play as he gave the vital assist in the match against Sunderland...

That said i can understand Wenger speaking about 4th place being a trophy, considering the budget of the other big teams compared to Arsenal's budget. But it wasn't the wisest thing to say and certainly not now. I have often the impression that Wenger is not really a diplomat, he is rather clumsy in what he says...I don't like Ferguson at all, but in this aspect of the game Wenger could learn alot from him.

I completely agree with Bobby about the influence the fans have on the player's confidence. It seems as if in the recent past Arsenal's fans were spoiled too much. Before Wenger Arsenal was called "boring Arsenal" here on the continent. And a 1-0 win was called "an Arsenal score". This says it all...Arsenal won silverware (occasionally) but mostly with boring, dire football...

PS: Bobby, how is life in Israël?

Mate, that is when i started supporting arsenal, when we was boring yet i was happy and filled with joy back then instead of the shit that has happened in the past 7 years.

I'd take boring football if it can give us a better chance of winning something over playing tippy tappy shit with the players unable to do so.

End of the day, what brings joy and success to a club? winning games and if we have to play boring football to do so, im all at it. Thats why i dont mind if Morinho was our next manager. dont give a shit about playing beatiful fooball or not when the end result we get embarassed. No thanks.

Give me results first then everything else later.

 

[BobbyBox]

Yeah yossi should be used more aswell.

On a lighter note, looks like Ryo is doing well

http://www.arsenal.com/news/reserves-news/loan-watch-ryo-fires-bolton-to-victory

what the hell are you doing all over their!

get your but back in London!

The wife made me!

 

[BobbyBox]

Just looked at when Denilson, Bendtner and Diaby got their new bumper contracts. From what the links say, I can understand exactly why Wenger gave them long big contracts to keep them at Arsenal. This is often used as a stick to beat Wenger with, but if you look at the facts, then he had to make judgements at the time. If he hadn't have done what he did and Bendtner/Denilson became world talents, people would have gone crazy!

Diaby just played 21 games the season before and scored 6 times and I remember a couple of games he looked very good. Injuries have stopped him getting a good run in the team since then.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/diaby-signs-new-long-term-contract-at-arsenal

Denilson the season before (only 21 years of age) had 51 appearences for the first team, more than any other player that season.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/denilson-signs-a-new-long-term-contract

Bendtner the season before had scored 15 goals in 27 starts, the top goalscorer in the premierleague aged 21 or under and when signed had played in everygame before. (He was the second player in the appearance charts that season for Arsenal)

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/danish-forward-signs-new-long-term-deal

 

[girts1204]

Oh so this is where Arshavin lost his touch!!

YouTube - Russian Rave in Forest
starting from 1:00 !

 

[bebo]

looks like things don`t change he was subbed out too in rave forest

 

[pes4lyfe]

Oh so this is where Arshavin lost his touch!!

YouTube - Russian Rave in Forest
starting from 1:00 !

wtf lol like return of the zombies or sum shit haha....I dunno why people rave in forest then again i dotn even know why people go clubbing

 

[pes4lyfe]

@pes4lyfe: RvP is the hottest property in terms of attackers at the moment. I used to dislike him in the CF role, as he wasn't a natural in this position (and he still drifts away from the 6-yard box until today). But he definitely learned how to position himself inside the box and his goal scoring record speaks for itself. I say play Arshavin with him upfront! Or if we use Chamakh, RvP drops behind him, but we have to make sure our wide players are putting in good crosses, otherwise it's a waste of time.

I still think we should trade Chamakh (who can do better at any other Premier League club that uses aerial play). Maybe give him + cash for Yakubu? The Nigerian is no world beater, but he has played very well, he's physically strong, can score all kinds of goals and he's good at holding the ball or doing the pivot. Think of an attacking duo of him and RvP!

I aint disupting that RVP cant play CF. He is the best CF in the world right now. THe irony is he can be an even better player slightly deeper as he has great passes and long range shooting. If only we could clone RVP and have 2 RVP up front..one as CF and one as SS lol

 

[Rantboy]

So there are rumours that AW is looking to send Arshavin on loan back to Russia. Considering that Arshavin featured in the reserves match yesterday, I think this speaks volumes about Wenger's plans for him.

In the reserves match, Chamakh, Park, Benayoun and Arshavin all featured. I don't get it!! Wenger never uses some of those guys! Why get Park and Benayoun then in the first place?
Oh and Chamakh picked an injury! Great...

It's puzzling how this is happening. All of them had conditions to feature in the Premier League. The 1st team Wenger has been using is hardly filled with world beaters now, isn't it?

This is all just too strange. Something very bad is happening behind the curtains. Maybe some of those players voiced discontent and/or questioned AW's tactics.
Could be the case with Arshavin, cause looks like Wenger doesn't count on him anymore. Benayoun too, he voiced his discontent on Twitter. No wonder, he comes on loan from a team who was star-studded, naturally he expected more 1st team football at Arsenal? And let's face it, he could have been picked ahead of Rosicky on a number of occasions.

All I know is if I was a player, I'd be pissed and would be questioning this bloody tippy tappy resembling a poor man's Barcelona. Arsene Wenger's teams have been lacking objectivity for some 7 or 8 years now, which I always thought it's very frustrating at times.

 

[BobbyBox]

So there are rumours that AW is looking to send Arshavin on loan back to Russia. Considering that Arshavin featured in the reserves match yesterday, I think this speaks volumes about Wenger's plans for him.

In the reserves match, Chamakh, Park, Benayoun and Arshavin all featured. I don't get it!! Wenger never uses some of those guys! Why get Park and Benayoun then in the first place?
Oh and Chamakh picked an injury! Great...

It's puzzling how this is happening. All of them had conditions to feature in the Premier League. The 1st team Wenger has been using is hardly filled with world beaters now, isn't it?

This is all just too strange. Something very bad is happening behind the curtains. Maybe some of those players voiced discontent and/or questioned AW's tactics.
Could be the case with Arshavin, cause looks like Wenger doesn't count on him anymore. Benayoun too, he voiced his discontent on Twitter. No wonder, he comes on loan from a team who was star-studded, naturally he expected more 1st team football at Arsenal? And let's face it, he could have been picked ahead of Rosicky on a number of occasions.

All I know is if I was a player, I'd be pissed and would be questioning this bloody tippy tappy resembling a poor man's Barcelona. Arsene Wenger's teams have been lacking objectivity for some 7 or 8 years now, which I always thought it's very frustrating at times.

The only way Arshavin will go on loan to Russia is if he is disrupting the team in some way. We need as many players as possible to the end of the season, so I don't believe Arsene would jsut send him back to Russia, it makes no sense?

It's not that strange to put players in the reserve team to keep them match fit if they haven't played for a while? so I don't know if you can read too much into it. He could have done that, to get them ready for Sunday?

Players should know better than to air their dirty laundry in public, it doesn't help the situation at all, if Benayoun did this, then he should be punished in some way. That star studded team that you say he came from is not doind any better than us this season? and he never played that much for them either.

Again Rosicky has had some very good games this season, just recently he has played not so well, so I understand why Benayoun hasn't been played ahead of him so much.

I don't know what you mean about lacking objectivity? do you mean they lacking a goal or objective in what they are doing? Which I don't think is quite true as we have played some very good stuff over this time and been very close to winning things.

I find it hard how you are now refering to why Wenger isn't picking the players like Arshavin, Chamack, Benayoun, park etc. Arshavin put in one decent cross and set up a goal recently, now everyone expects him to be in the team, Chamack hasn't showed any promise for about a year and a half whenever he gets the opportunity, If he is not playing park there must be a good reason...he just isn't any good, or not ready at all and Benayoun has always been a bit part player in most clubs he haas been at and although I think effective sometimes doesn't warrant really to start ahead of others.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a bit of a shake up and a different system and maybe other players getting a chance. But it isn't that headscratching to understand why the players you have mentioned aren't getting a game.

 

[gerd]

When i heard about a possible loan of Arshavin to Zenith, i thought it was genius...
Right at the moment it's the best thing Wenger can do for Arshavin. The guy has a serious lack of confidence and it looks as if he can't do any good for some Arsenal fans. This will not exactly help him. At Zenith he is a hero and worshipped...it can only go better for him.

A loan to Zenith would prove that Wenger still counts on Arshavin and sees things long term (as usual, maybe often too long term). Arshavin has star potential, but this kind of player isn't liked when not in form ('lazy', 'nonchalant').

About Benayoun and Park: i don't understand Wenger. He bought those players (well that's what one would suppose, wouldn't you) and he never plays them...both are good players... i don't understand that.

 

[BobbyBox]

When i heard about a possible loan of Arshavin to Zenith, i thought it was genius...
Right at the moment it's the best thing Wenger can do for Arshavin. The guy has a serious lack of confidence and it looks as if he can't do any good for some Arsenal fans. This will not exactly help him. At Zenith he is a hero and worshipped...it can only go better for him.

A loan to Zenith would prove that Wenger still counts on Arshavin and sees things long term (as usual, maybe often too long term). Arshavin has star potential, but this kind of player isn't liked when not in form ('lazy', 'nonchalant').

About Benayoun and Park: i don't understand Wenger. He bought those players (well that's what one would suppose, wouldn't you) and he never plays them...both are good players... i don't understand that.

I don't think Arshavin has long term future at Arsenal, unless he wants it and plays out of his skin for the rest of the season.

It might be a great move for Arshavin, but it isn't great for Arsenal, We need to concentrate on what is best for us at the moment and having Arshavin in the squad is much needed. I can understand if we could replace him now...but we can't. It only makes sense if Arshavin has been kicking up a fuss and Wenger doesn't want him disrupting the team. Otherwise why would Wenger limit his options like that? Unless he ends Miyaichi's loan to Bolton to replace him (As Miyaichi seems to be doing well) but that wouldn't be ideal either.

Benayoun is an impact sub to come on at the end of the game, which is what Arsene has been using ho for mainly. He has played him from the start a couple of times and from what I can remember, he didn't do very well.

Park is strange I must admit, but with the troubles we are having, do you really think if he thought Park could do anything, then he wouldn't have been on? But it was a very strange buy for Arsene and I can't believe that Park has just suddenly become shit? so I really don't know what is going on there.

 

[gerd]

I obviously don't agree with you on Arshavin, but you might have a point in short term (and maybe that is what Arsenal need now: short term thinking and not Wenger's perennial long term projects). So yes, i see your point.

Park is one of the strangest transfers ever done in EPL. Either the guy is not good enough (but why buy him then) or he is good and then he should play...or maybe he was simply bought as a back-up for Van Persie and now Van Persie is never injured and wins matches all by himself, so Park is a bench warmer...i think it's rather unfair to Park. Must be frustrating..

I also think Chamakh should get more play time. I understand that lately he was not very good, but he is a good player and Arsenal could use a good Chamakh...so why not giving him play time?

 

[Rantboy]

The only way Arshavin will go on loan to Russia is if he is disrupting the team in some way. We need as many players as possible to the end of the season, so I don't believe Arsene would jsut send him back to Russia, it makes no sense?

It's not that strange to put players in the reserve team to keep them match fit if they haven't played for a while? so I don't know if you can read too much into it. He could have done that, to get them ready for Sunday?

Players should know better than to air their dirty laundry in public, it doesn't help the situation at all, if Benayoun did this, then he should be punished in some way. That star studded team that you say he came from is not doind any better than us this season? and he never played that much for them either.

Again Rosicky has had some very good games this season, just recently he has played not so well, so I understand why Benayoun hasn't been played ahead of him so much.

I don't know what you mean about lacking objectivity? do you mean they lacking a goal or objective in what they are doing? Which I don't think is quite true as we have played some very good stuff over this time and been very close to winning things.

I find it hard how you are now refering to why Wenger isn't picking the players like Arshavin, Chamack, Benayoun, park etc. Arshavin put in one decent cross and set up a goal recently, now everyone expects him to be in the team, Chamack hasn't showed any promise for about a year and a half whenever he gets the opportunity, If he is not playing park there must be a good reason...he just isn't any good, or not ready at all and Benayoun has always been a bit part player in most clubs he haas been at and although I think effective sometimes doesn't warrant really to start ahead of others.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a bit of a shake up and a different system and maybe other players getting a chance. But it isn't that headscratching to understand why the players you have mentioned aren't getting a game.

I beg to differ, I find a lot of things quite headscratching there. Arshavin has put in a great contribution last time he played, the type of play you won't see Walcott creating. Plus, we know Arshavin has got it, he's a mercurial talent who can create something out of nothing. So it was puzzling to see him not being used at all against Milan and Sunderland FA cup tie. After a great assist to Henry, one would expect to build up from there and he could gather confidence. But Wenger kind of kills players' momentum with these odd decisions.

As for Park, this is the most headscratching stuff. He bought this Korean CF as backup for RvP? But I thought Chamakh was already a backup? And then, when we have both fit sitting on the bench and you have a game to turn around, what does Wenger do? He deploys freaking Walcott as our main CF! How can you not find this stuff baffling??

At Chelsea, Benayoun had to compete with household names like Lampard, Essien, Mata. I'm not questioning if they're doing better than us or not. But it's just a fact that their midfielders have a much higher profile than ours. So when Benayoun came to Arsenal, it's fair to say he was expecting more 1st team football indeed. But instead, he watches from the bench an inconsistent Ramsey being played to exhaustion and Rosicky being always ahead in the pecking order. Rosicky had 1 or 2 good matches, but this is none of the stuff he came to do here in the first place. He just became such an innocuous player. He's a tidy player all round, but he doesn't produce nothing apart from sideways passing and little stupid turns. Can't remember the last time he made an assist, and it's been now 2 years since he last scored! Appalling stuff.

The lack of objectivity I was talking about is regarding our playing style. It's all too much tentative, no directness to it at all. Too much possession without end product. Plus, our team played great possession football many seasons ago when we had a hell of a squad, but now this is clearly not the case. The quality of our players has grown thin over the years and now it's an incoherence to try playing in the same way with this current set of players.
Our passing is not so slick anymore and, most importantly, it's not fast passing anymore. Arseblog posted a piece about this last week I think.
Plus, I really miss the directness in attacking plays. I miss seeing a player who will have a go from 30 meters out or whenever there's an opening in front of the box.

This style of play is supposed to produce highly entertaining matches, but sticking to this style without much quality makes it dire to watch some times.

 

[BobbyBox]

I beg to differ, I find a lot of things quite headscratching there. Arshavin has put in a great contribution last time he played, the type of play you won't see Walcott creating. Plus, we know Arshavin has got it, he's a mercurial talent who can create something out of nothing. So it was puzzling to see him not being used at all against Milan and Sunderland FA cup tie. After a great assist to Henry, one would expect to build up from there and he could gather confidence. But Wenger kind of kills players' momentum with these odd decisions.

As for Park, this is the most headscratching stuff. He bought this Korean CF as backup for RvP? But I thought Chamakh was already a backup? And then, when we have both fit sitting on the bench and you have a game to turn around, what does Wenger do? He deploys freaking Walcott as our main CF! How can you not find this stuff baffling??

At Chelsea, Benayoun had to compete with household names like Lampard, Essien, Mata. I'm not questioning if they're doing better than us or not. But it's just a fact that their midfielders have a much higher profile than ours. So when Benayoun came to Arsenal, it's fair to say he was expecting more 1st team football indeed. But instead, he watches from the bench an inconsistent Ramsey being played to exhaustion and Rosicky being always ahead in the pecking order. Rosicky had 1 or 2 good matches, but this is none of the stuff he came to do here in the first place. He just became such an innocuous player. He's a tidy player all round, but he doesn't produce nothing apart from sideways passing and little stupid turns. Can't remember the last time he made an assist, and it's been now 2 years since he last scored! Appalling stuff.

The lack of objectivity I was talking about is regarding our playing style. It's all too much tentative, no directness to it at all. Too much possession without end product. Plus, our team played great possession football many seasons ago when we had a hell of a squad, but now this is clearly not the case. The quality of our players has grown thin over the years and now it's an incoherence to try playing in the same way with this current set of players.
Our passing is not so slick anymore and, most importantly, it's not fast passing anymore. Arseblog posted a piece about this last week I think.
Plus, I really miss the directness in attacking plays. I miss seeing a player who will have a go from 30 meters out or whenever there's an opening in front of the box.

This style of play is supposed to produce highly entertaining matches, but sticking to this style without much quality makes it dire to watch some times.

Before Arshavin did that cross and set up the goal, people were moaning about him. One assist doesn't make him suddenly our only hope and for a team needing 100% from all of it's players, do you really trust Arshavin to give 100%? even when he had his short best spell for us, I could hardly say he gave 100%.

I have admitted Park is a weird one. Chamack on the other hand has been given lots of opportunities in games and has failed to deliver time and time again. When you are in the run we are, not putting Van Persie on and praying Chamack gets some form out of nowhere is a big risk.

Freaking Walcott as a main centre forward? people were saying why not try Walcott there as that is his natural position? now Wenger does it, he is a dick because it didn't work? He tried something a bit different, this is what people are asking for?

I just find it hard how you now think players like Benayoun are so great? he is a squad player and is decent but not that great. Wenger brought him in as backup to the first team.

The only one I find a bit baffling is Park, but how do we know how he is performing in training etc? he could be totally not suitable for the English game, he could be failing miserably. It's baffling, because nobody has a clue why and nobody really has any information why. But obviously Wenger has his reasons.

General statements like 'Wenger kind of kills off players momentum with these odd decisions' is just a generalisation, he did it for Arshavin for whatever reason, what other players in form (And you could hardly call Arshavin in form at all anyway?) did Wenger take out of the team and kill their momentum?

It's generalisations like this and misinformation like why Wenger signed up Denilson. Bendtner, Diaby on big contracts etc etc that are feeding this whole negativeness to a stupid degree and will not help the club get out of this rut.

Like I said before, deal with the facts and be pissed off with that (shit defence etc and the late business in the transfer market in the summer etc), don't beleive or make up things that aren't necessarly true to try and prove a point.

Your overall points I do agree with, our formation and style of play should be altered and we should also try some different tactics, maybe different players. But if we do all of that, then it might be risky, as it takes time to get used to new formations etc It might be best just starting afresh in the summer.

 

[gerd]

I honestly think Arsenal should give up on this season and start experimenting with next season as a target to win something.
I'm still a big fan of Wenger, but he needs to set himself short term goals, he should come out with his objectives for next season and if he fails, yes maybe he should go or get somebody that helps him one way or another. But the most important thing would be that he openly gives up on this season and that the fans give him some peace for now. The verdict can be made at the end of next season, but until then, give the man a break...

 

[BobbyBox]

I honestly think Arsenal should give up on this season and start experimenting with next season as a target to win something.
I'm still a big fan of Wenger, but he needs to set himself short term goals, he should come out with his objectives for next season and if he fails, yes maybe he should go or get somebody that helps him one way or another. But the most important thing would be that he openly gives up on this season and that the fans give him some peace for now. The verdict can be made at the end of next season, but until then, give the man a break...

He can't really give up as he will really be strung up then. To have any expectations of a good 2012-2013 season, we need 4th. With the teams around us all very good and fighting for 4th aswell, it is going to be very tough.

The next 3 premier league games are against teams around us, so we will know soon the likelihood of us finishing there is.

 

[pes4lyfe]

When i heard about a possible loan of Arshavin to Zenith, i thought it was genius...
Right at the moment it's the best thing Wenger can do for Arshavin. The guy has a serious lack of confidence and it looks as if he can't do any good for some Arsenal fans. This will not exactly help him. At Zenith he is a hero and worshipped...it can only go better for him.

A loan to Zenith would prove that Wenger still counts on Arshavin and sees things long term (as usual, maybe often too long term). Arshavin has star potential, but this kind of player isn't liked when not in form ('lazy', 'nonchalant').

About Benayoun and Park: i don't understand Wenger. He bought those players (well that's what one would suppose, wouldn't you) and he never plays them...both are good players... i don't understand that.

NO offense but Arashavin is like 31 mate?

NOt as if he can go on loan come back and bbe up there again.

Due to his age I say his career has been and gone now.

He can prob go back to russia and play 4-5 seasons at top level..Thats about it.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

As Bobby said, 4th is what they have to fight for really, its the difference between Arsenal slowly going into midtable or possibly landing Eden Hazard and 1 or 2 more players of that caliber to at least remain a top 4 side and build from that.

 

[PLF]

A bit off topic but just want to quickly give praise to RentBoy for his superb command of the English language.

I know he's Brazilian and it's very rare I see a Brazilian communicate so clearly and effectively in English.

So keep up the good work buddy.

As for all those who doubt Chamakh (which isn't many of you thankfully as I see many actually DO rate him and know he's a good player), he'll move to any other team after this and prove you all wrong. Good player. Not spectacular, but good solid player. Unfortunately he's being wasted at Arsenal right now in the best years of his career. If things don't change, I hope he gets a move away and I can see him going back to Bordeaux in the summer or something.

 

[Rantboy]

A bit off topic but just want to quickly give praise to RentBoy for his superb command of the English language.

I know he's Brazilian and it's very rare I see a Brazilian communicate so clearly and effectively in English.

So keep up the good work buddy.

As for all those who doubt Chamakh (which isn't many of you thankfully as I see many actually DO rate him and know he's a good player), he'll move to any other team after this and prove you all wrong. Good player. Not spectacular, but good solid player. Unfortunately he's being wasted at Arsenal right now in the best years of his career. If things don't change, I hope he gets a move away and I can see him going back to Bordeaux in the summer or something.

Cheers PLF!
I write much better than I speak or listen though

Freaking Walcott as a main centre forward? people were saying why not try Walcott there as that is his natural position? now Wenger does it, he is a dick because it didn't work? He tried something a bit different, this is what people are asking for?



It's generalisations like this and misinformation like why Wenger signed up Denilson. Bendtner, Diaby on big contracts etc etc that are feeding this whole negativeness to a stupid degree and will not help the club get out of this rut.

I for one never asked for Walcott as a CF. I don't know where you saw that Walcott's natural position is CF. I know that he fancies himself as a central attacking. But with that finishing? And it's not as if he's got nice dribbling skills either. He hasn't got the right physique and height. He has almost nothing of what it takes to be a CF. It's a joke really!

But ok, let's say Wenger just wanted to give him a go at the position. Then he should have done it against Blackburn when we were like 5-1 up, or against lower division opposition in a Carling Cup tie or something. But to actually test him at that position during a decisive FA Cup tie when we were losing? That was really shocking by Wenger.
The only thing Walcott has about him to break down defences is his pace, but that requires a scenario where the score is levelled or leading and counter-attacking.
Wenger's biggest mistake was trying that when we're losing a match against opposition that is tough to break and had just decided to park the bus, well what you get is what we've seen last weekend. Walcott barely touched the ball, you almost feel sorry for the guy. He looked pathetic there. But it's more Wenger's fault than anyone.
It was baffling indeed, as it doesn't take a manager to foresee something like that.

As for Bendtner, Denilson and Diaby, I didn't get exactly what you mean? Where you see generalisation and misinformation I see a fact: Wenger has put 3 shit players on a lot of money. That's all there is to it mate.

I was never convinced by their performances. Hindsight makes things far too easy to analyse, I know. But just take a look at those players now: Bendtner is a full-time benchwarmer/part-time automobile vandal at Sunderland; Denilson is a sub at São Paulo - he can't even get 1st team football in the Brazilian league, in a team that has become mid-table in Brazil and, to add insult to injury, he managed to have disgruntled fans hating him there too;
And Diaby, well... what can I say? If he was a horse, he would have been sacrificed by now. Throughout the years, many fans have been questioning AW's insistence with Diaby, not only because of his injuries. 70k a week and I don't know how the hell did that happen?

You pointed out before that Wenger had faith in these guys' development and had to offer this kind of money to tie them to the club. I just think he made terrible decisions and let the important ones slip away, such as Flamini and Gilberto when he still had some years in him.

The kind of money those mediocre players at Arsenal are on, nobody pays. Diaby's salary is on par with RvP! How ridiculous is that?
You said before that Wenger offered RvP his current salary seasons ago when he was "still injury prone". How do you assess Diaby's fitness when he had his contract renewed then? It's not as if he was Ironman or a human dynamo, is it?

If there is one thing that is tearing this club from the inside is this salary system. It's like communism! It's the opposite of Real Madrid's "Zidanes and Pavons" philosophy. At Arsenal, the Pavons make almost as much money!

I know you're one of the few fans to remain optimistic Bobby, kudos to you! But all this negativity surrounding the club is happening for a reason, you know. Most fans, myself included, are waking up to this. If we don't finish 4th, we will loose RvP for sure, there will be no CL income, we will still have a big fat payroll... it would be very difficult to revert, with or without Wenger. I don't want this to happen, so that's why I think the board and manager need a kick up the arse before it's too late.

 

[gerd]

And Diaby, well... what can I say? If he was a horse, he would have been sacrificed by now.

This made me laugh soo much, well said...and on top of that, it's true.

 

[BobbyBox]

Cheers PLF!
I write much better than I speak or listen though





I for one never asked for Walcott as a CF. I don't know where you saw that Walcott's natural position is CF. I know that he fancies himself as a central attacking. But with that finishing? And it's not as if he's got nice dribbling skills either. He hasn't got the right physique and height. He has almost nothing of what it takes to be a CF. It's a joke really!

But ok, let's say Wenger just wanted to give him a go at the position. Then he should have done it against Blackburn when we were like 5-1 up, or against lower division opposition in a Carling Cup tie or something. But to actually test him at that position during a decisive FA Cup tie when we were losing? That was really shocking by Wenger.
The only thing Walcott has about him to break down defences is his pace, but that requires a scenario where the score is levelled or leading and counter-attacking.
Wenger's biggest mistake was trying that when we're losing a match against opposition that is tough to break and had just decided to park the bus, well what you get is what we've seen last weekend. Walcott barely touched the ball, you almost feel sorry for the guy. He looked pathetic there. But it's more Wenger's fault than anyone.
It was baffling indeed, as it doesn't take a manager to foresee something like that.

As for Bendtner, Denilson and Diaby, I didn't get exactly what you mean? Where you see generalisation and misinformation I see a fact: Wenger has put 3 shit players on a lot of money. That's all there is to it mate.

I was never convinced by their performances. Hindsight makes things far too easy to analyse, I know. But just take a look at those players now: Bendtner is a full-time benchwarmer/part-time automobile vandal at Sunderland; Denilson is a sub at São Paulo - he can't even get 1st team football in the Brazilian league, in a team that has become mid-table in Brazil and, to add insult to injury, he managed to have disgruntled fans hating him there too;
And Diaby, well... what can I say? If he was a horse, he would have been sacrificed by now. Throughout the years, many fans have been questioning AW's insistence with Diaby, not only because of his injuries. 70k a week and I don't know how the hell did that happen?

You pointed out before that Wenger had faith in these guys' development and had to offer this kind of money to tie them to the club. I just think he made terrible decisions and let the important ones slip away, such as Flamini and Gilberto when he still had some years in him.

The kind of money those mediocre players at Arsenal are on, nobody pays. Diaby's salary is on par with RvP! How ridiculous is that?
You said before that Wenger offered RvP his current salary seasons ago when he was "still injury prone". How do you assess Diaby's fitness when he had his contract renewed then? It's not as if he was Ironman or a human dynamo, is it?

If there is one thing that is tearing this club from the inside is this salary system. It's like communism! It's the opposite of Real Madrid's "Zidanes and Pavons" philosophy. At Arsenal, the Pavons make almost as much money!

I know you're one of the few fans to remain optimistic Bobby, kudos to you! But all this negativity surrounding the club is happening for a reason, you know. Most fans, myself included, are waking up to this. If we don't finish 4th, we will loose RvP for sure, there will be no CL income, we will still have a big fat payroll... it would be very difficult to revert, with or without Wenger. I don't want this to happen, so that's why I think the board and manager need a kick up the arse before it's too late.

Yeah well done on your English, it's amazing. Sauce and Honome in the chatbox are both Brazilian aswell and also write really good English

I Agree it probably wasn't the best time to play Walcott in that role, but it could have had the other effect of confusing the opposition and for them not to know how to handle Walcott down the middle? If it would have worked, then it would have been genius, but it didn't and as you said the benefit of hindsight is great.

Did you see my post a few days ago, with the link on Bendtner, Diaby and Denilson from Arsenal.com? they are articles just when the players signed their new contracts. In Brief Denilson the season before he signed was 21 and played more games for Arsenal than any other player that season. Diaby had played 26 games with 6 goals etc and looked good and wasn't injuured all of the time. Bendtner had had around 28 appearanced and scored 17 goals, the top under 21 goalscorer in the Premier league at the time.

So I think it justifies the long contracts and the higher wages to keep them at Arsenal, when they made the decisions at those times. It is all well and good looking at them now, but Wenger doesn't have a crystal ball unfortunately.

So it is not just that 'Wenger has put 3 very shit players on alot of Money' like you state. That is very simplistic and just not the way that it happened.

Again if they lived up to their potential, Wenger would have been praised for tieing them down for so long etc.

Flamini wanted to go to Milan, so I don't think he could have done much to prevent that, his best season was the season just before he left. As soon as he knew Milan were interested he wanted to go, so he couldn't be tied down.

Gilberto I agree he should have kept the captaincy and that was a silly mistake by Wenger. He was playing really well and to give the captaincy to Gallas was ridiculous.

The fact that Diaby is on the same money as Van Persie again when Diaby was given his contract he was a great prospect and one to try and tie down. Van Persie was injury prone and nobody knew if he would ever get a full season again or get back to his best again.

Everything you are saying you are using hindsight, which as you said is very easy to do and it is easy to criticise from. But if you actually look at the circumstances of things when they happened, then you get a better outlook on why decisions were made. You get a better more rounded opinion of the situation and you might not get so upset about them.

Believe me I know why the negativity is happening and I think of course people should be negative about certain things. But Again don't add stuff that isn't really factually true to compound arguments and to make situations that are different from what is actually being reported.

For instance I think Wenger has learned from the big contracts and payments to Diaby, Denilson etc. Djourou only got a 2year contract recently, which is a very ordinary contract that any player would get at their club. It isn't over the top or anything. But people went mental, as if he had been given another 5 year contract on 100k a week?!

This is the mentality of alot of Arsenal fans and it just isn't right in my opinion. Fans need to get their facts straight and start supporting the club. I bet you that will have more positive results for Arsenal than all of this pissing and moaning

 

[bebo]

it`s been a few hard years...never will I forget Mr Wenger say " judge me after 2 years "that was in 2007 ...

Is he the right man YES! has his plan failed YES! still right man YES! Do we have the wrong players NO! just change the system.

if you have copper cant build w/ gold just keep it copper.