Arsenal Thread

BobbyBox said:
Also we have shown good team spirit and commitment in lots of games this season, our great run after the humiliating start to the season was full of gutsy displays and commitment, our comeback in the FA Cup to win was also the same and also our last game against Sunderland.

Just because we played like that last night it doesn't now mean everyteam shows more commitment than our team now?!
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Unfortunately, this isn't a one off mate. When we were massacred at Old Trafford and when we conceded 4 against Blackburn... and now. These are the moments when we get found out.

I see you and Jonney talking about guts and commitment. That's not all. There's a sheer naivety about our way to defend, it's uncanny!

But there's more to commitment and knowing how to defend. You can tell this Arsenal side lacks that desire, that drive, you know? To really pursue the impossible results.

In 2004 Deportivo La Coruña got mauled 4-1 at San Siro and then repaid with a 4-0 at Riazor. And that Milan side was a very good one if you ask me. So, is it impossible? No, it isn't. But I just don't see this Arsenal side capable of doing something like that. It requires that extra desire, that winning mentality. This current crop of players don't have that bottle.
That Deportivo side had players like Valeron, Pandiani, Djalminha... It takes something special to do something special, and I just cannot see this Arsenal side doing it.

I'm fed up with Wenger uttering things about spirit and mental strength. I don't buy it. These players barely bother to turn up, they just go collect their pay checks... and they're mentally feeble if anything. Bottlers! :RANT:
 
Iceman and Younggun naild it:
YoungGun_UK said:
Watching Arsenal, their is hardly a player on the ball you "worry" about other than Van Persie. I mean Rosicky is the perfect example, he's a neat player but he's a whole lot of nothingness he's not going to score and he's not going to create.
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IceMan_Bergkamp said:
Men vs Boys.... it was more Men vs Foetus'... it was that bad. Oh by the way, we've just given Djourou a new contract too, which just shows that we will be carrying the same deadwood for years to come.

Arsenal as a team had this coming. Especially with Wenger STILL playing a passing, pressing formation with players who simply cannot play. Couple this with a team with players who know they'll play week in week out without a doubt, then it's a recipe for disaster.

still pissed.
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Something is wrong. You can't defend that, Bobby. It has been and we are not in anyway at least in an linear trend.

Maybe our financial situation is nowhere near as solid as they made us to believe. Though, you are right, investment has been made. But to put it all down to bad luck and oil money for other is simplistic. I'm not saying we should be winning all the time, but the future is looking dimer every year.
 
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Wenger has already given up on the return leg by the way so you get an impression that Wenger gives up quite easily and that is NOT A GOOD role to show for your players.

You will never see Fergie give up even if his team are 6:0 down.
 
BobbyBox said:
This post of yours really get my goat :LOL:

From what I saw of Henry he would love to have stayed at Arsenal.

Have you seen any Red Bull games to comment on?

Also we have shown good team spirit and commitment in lots of games this season, our great run after the humiliating start to the season was full of gutsy displays and commitment, our comeback in the FA Cup to win was also the same and also our last game against Sunderland.

Just because we played like that last night it doesn't now mean everyteam shows more commitment than our team now?!

I really don't like it when people say stuff like this. (Not just you Jonney)

BBC posted a tweet from somebody yesterday saying something like 'Ibrahimovic has he even got out of a walking pace yet?!' basically implying he was commanding the game without doing anything and not having to run. This was after he was offside and legged it down the wing to set up the second goal.

Views like this just dumbfound me, like the earlier posts from others, declaring why Arsene can't invest in an experienced defender (when he did in Merteesacker) and that we are not spending and where has all of the money gone? (When we spent over 60million in the summer).

It is like people have short memories and it annoys me. Please be critical of the team/WEnger/Board and what we are seeing is not acceptable, but if you are going to have a go, please make sure that what you are saying is actually true.

This was a general rant and not to be taken personally by anybody, I am just pissed off with the whole situation like you all are. But saying things and adding things onto the very long list of things that are wrong that aren't really true, doesn't do anything.
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Have u watched red bulls play? Maybe i am harsh but i am also fucking pissed off mate. Everyone knows here how i wanted wenger out 100 years ago so u know i am probably the loudest here whenever we fucking lose like this. So i sometimes do say shit like that mate.
 
n4p4st4 said:
Iceman and Younggun naild it:




Something is wrong. You can't defend that, Bobby. It has been and we are not in anyway at least in an linear trend.

Maybe our financial situation is nowhere near as solid as they made us to believe. Though, you are right, investment has been made. But to put it all down to bad luck and oil money for other is simplistic. I'm not saying we should be winning all the time, but the future is looking dimer every year.
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I'm not defending anybody, there is something wrong of course. But I just want people to moan about what is actually wrong, the defensive side is a perfect example, we are not very good at defending and that defintately needs to be addressed, so moan about it by all means.

I have never put the way we are down just to bad luck or others oil money? I don't know if that was refered to me? it is a mixture of alot of things and the point I have always tried to make is that it is far from simplistic, this is one of my gripes, people saying we are shit because of this, or that and that it is so black and white, when it clearly isn't. There are a host of reasons why we are not the team we once were.

At Jonney, Wenger hasn't given up on the return leg either, he just said what the odds were of us turning it around were slim, which is the truth, if he said the opposite, then people would think he is mental. They are the Italian Champions with a very good team, to beat them 4-0 even at home is extremely tough.

Also it doesn't matter if I have or haven't seen the Red Bulls play, as I am not making statements like you made?
 
actually compared to old traffor result 4-0 away to milan aint that bad lol.

and yeh I guess we have spend a lot of money

10mil- arteta
10mil- metra...
10mil- gervinho
18mil- Ox cube
7mil- Korean Park yer bike
6mil- Santos


BTw whats up with Park is he just totally shit or what? Hes not had any chance. And what a silly signing when we have Chamack anyway who is simialr player....but both dont even get a look in.

We need a strong powerful forward to play alongside van persie probs...

And btw why is Van pErsie 6'2 on fifa lol hes like 6ft at most eh?
 
Jonney, did you already answered my question? have you seen an entire match of Hazard?
Sometimes you say things as some sort of natural law, but it happens you can't back that seriously. You claim hazard to be the next big thing, but on what facts do you presume that? The fact that everybody claims that? Remember Freddy Adu...
 
I meant physicians in the US don`t even make 475k a year. I know surgeons make that or more I have 2 cousin that are Dr. they only make 14k a month and work about 100 hrs a week . I`m just referring tha Adu isn`t good .but good enough to make a good living.
 
football is a buisiness and once you are in you are rich, but it´s sport, you can´t do football longer than to be a doctor.. but i know what you mean..
 
bebo said:
I meant physicians in the US don`t even make 475k a year. I know surgeons make that or more I have 2 cousin that are Dr. they only make 14k a month and work about 100 hrs a week . I`m just referring tha Adu isn`t good .but good enough to make a good living.
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it was a joke nevermind
 
The thing is Bobby Arsenal IMO have had a weak defence for what seems like forever (I'd say it started about 05) and apart from that great run that took you to the Champions League Final (Which was funnily enough with a makeshift defence?) you've always fallen back on whats been a extremely potent attacking set of players. I think your attack is just above average on today's merits and removing Van Persie (who could potentially leave this Summer) would rank it as average at best.

Not only has the defence not got better but the + points over the years of well on our day we can tear any top side apart and our style of play are fading.
 
When you see Zlatan vs. Djorou, that's just unfair! :LOL:

Now on the other side you have arguably the world's best striker in Van Persie right now but who's marking him? Nesta and Thiago Silva!! Hell yeah! lol means even he can't do shit.

Like I said, unfair. :LOL:
 
Younggun, without wanting to be biased, do you think if you compare the current Man Utd squad player by player with the Arsenal sqaud, that overall Man Utd has better players? I'm not convinced. They certainly have a better defense (although two seasons ago Vermaelen was in the team of the season).

Arsenal lack what Man Utd has in abundance: a winners mentality, the ability to win ugly (and IMO Man Utd are winning too much, too ugly, but although i don't like it, it's a quality). Sometimes i wonder how Ferguson does it, i don't like the man, but you got to admire him for it...since Ronaldo left, i have the feeling that he's got a pretty average squad, but he still gets results....if you see how players like Wellbeck and Cleverley get transformed when playing for United...that is a big difference.
I don't see this happening with Arsenal.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
The thing is Bobby Arsenal IMO have had a weak defence for what seems like forever (I'd say it started about 05) and apart from that great run that took you to the Champions League Final (Which was funnily enough with a makeshift defence?) you've always fallen back on whats been a extremely potent attacking set of players. I think your attack is just above average on today's merits and removing Van Persie (who could potentially leave this Summer) would rank it as average at best.

Not only has the defence not got better but the + points over the years of well on our day we can tear any top side apart and our style of play are fading.
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We have had a mistake prone defence and keepers for a while, which has led people to think it has been weak for years and years. If you look at how many goals we actually conceeded in that time, then it wasn't half as bad as people made out. It is just those silly mistakes and our stupid keepers that were making the headlines.

Recently we have a good set of defenders imo and they could be really effective as a unit if they were not injured all of the fucking time! rarely have we had our first choice back four play a good run of games together, especially this season. They need a good run of games in order to understand eachother and get that connection.

But there is also the problem I agree, that we are not as good attacking as we used to be, so now our defence when they make a mistake or are shit, then our team has trouble overcoming it, because we don't have the players attacking wise at the moment to take our team forward.

Against Milan Sagna and Vermaelen had a shocking game and they are usually our reliable defenders, hopefully this won't happen again. Also hopefully collectively as a team we don't play as bad again.

But the team do need to go on some sort of defensive workshop for the next year :LOL: its silly how many mistakes the team make in that area.

I still think if Van Persie stays in the summer and we get rid of a few players and get in a few good signings, then we can be up there with the big boys again. I know it seems hard to believe at the moment, but I really do.

Our defenders are good, we just need them to learn how to defend together :PP our midfield is good and with Wilshere (Hopefully getting back to how he was playing last season) can be great imo. Attacking wise if we keep van persie and replace Arshavin and Chamack with quality, then we have a team again that can beat any team on their day imo.
 
Van Persie is quality, but not captain as Viera for example, not even as Henry...

United found their way with Scholes who is phenomenal since his return, they have more matured players who NEVER give up..

Your coach gave up already as i read, so what will you expect of the players then..

It´s tricky situation and i don´t write Arsenal off yet..but AC Milan overall are more solid and better build team imho..
 
gerd said:
Jonney, did you already answered my question? have you seen an entire match of Hazard?
Sometimes you say things as some sort of natural law, but it happens you can't back that seriously. You claim hazard to be the next big thing, but on what facts do you presume that? The fact that everybody claims that? Remember Freddy Adu...
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No but i imagine loads of people and pundits have hench them rating him high. Should i believe just one person i,e you, or should i believe 100+ of people who all rate Hazard?
 
i really wait a bit more from Arsenal , but i was wrong i know maybe i just was dreaming for a draw , but no players there u cant win with one RVP team need more players !
 
PIPA23 said:
Van Persie is quality, but not captain as Viera for example, not even as Henry...

United found their way with Scholes who is phenomenal since his return, they have more matured players who NEVER give up..

Your coach gave up already as i read, so what will you expect of the players then..

It´s tricky situation and i don´t write Arsenal off yet..but AC Milan overall are more solid and better build team imho..
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Wow! so ppl do believe what`s being printed . Wenger is given up and will tell his players let`s stop playing and get 7th spot :SMUG:

I saw figures which is more shocking ...Arsenal valued at over £1 billion . Some would think why can`t we start producing in squad obvious the goal is met entering the new stadium.
 
i don´t belive, i read it here in this thread not media..

i say i still don´t write arsenal off, but i have to think your peak with Wenger was CL final 2005..

i know Arsenal make money and produce great football, but the trophy room is empty and fans start to realise if they will fill it with Wenger at helm any time soon..
 
bebo said:
Wow! so ppl do believe what`s being printed . Wenger is given up and will tell his players let`s stop playing and get 7th spot :SMUG:

I saw figures which is more shocking ...Arsenal valued at over £1 billion . Some would think why can`t we start producing in squad obvious the goal is met entering the new stadium.
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printed? it came straight from wenger

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-i-felt-we-were-never-in-the-game

on Arsenal's chances of progression now...
Let's be realistic, we don't play in dream world. Maybe two per cent or five per cent statistically. We have to show a completely different performance and you never know. But, you have to say, realistically, we are out of the competition.
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jonneymendoza said:
printed? it came straight from wenger

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-i-felt-we-were-never-in-the-game
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He is being realistic, are you really having a go at Wenger because he said this?

You are the first to say how shit the team is, do you think this team can beat this very good AC Milan side on what you saw the other night by more than 4 goals? and not let in one away goal aswell?

It will take an amazing performance from us and a shit one by AC Milan for it to happen, it is likely, but as Wenger said it the likely hood of it happening is miniscule.

You want Wenger to come out and say that it's fine the team will beat AC Milan 5-0 at the Emirates? There is having belief in a team and then there is just being crazy. If Wenger said this, you would be saying how deluded he was and how can he still have faith in this team blah blah blah.

He is damned if he does and damned if he don't.
 
bobby coach shouldn´t say that even if he belives it..

coach is motivator... he wouldn´t say the same if arsenal lost half time 0:4 that, ok guys, we still have 45 minutes but no chance to do anything..

becouse basicly the first match is like 45 minutes, half time for Arsenal...
 
BobbyBox said:
He is being realistic, are you really having a go at Wenger because he said this?

You are the first to say how shit the team is, do you think this team can beat this very good AC Milan side on what you saw the other night by more than 4 goals? and not let in one away goal aswell?

It will take an amazing performance from us and a shit one by AC Milan for it to happen, it is likely, but as Wenger said it the likely hood of it happening is miniscule.

You want Wenger to come out and say that it's fine the team will beat AC Milan 5-0 at the Emirates? There is having belief in a team and then there is just being crazy. If Wenger said this, you would be saying how deluded he was and how can he still have faith in this team blah blah blah.

He is damned if he does and damned if he don't.
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no I am not having a go at him,view am just proving to others that he did say that

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
PIPA23 said:
bobby coach shouldn´t say that even if he belives it..

coach is motivator... he wouldn´t say the same if arsenal lost half time 0:4 that, ok guys, we still have 45 minutes but no chance to do anything..

becouse basicly the first match is like 45 minutes, half time for Arsenal...
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I think a coach has to be realistic sometimes. would you still say the same if AC Milan beat us 5-0? 6-0? even 7-0?

Would you expect Wenger to say they are still in it then? when is the point where you conceed. I think 4-0 is a HUGE gap to get back from, considering the opposition and other factors.

If they score 1 goal then we need 6! to get 4 goals we will need to go crazy attacking, so to think we can keep a clean sheet while doing that is just insanity at the moment.

I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why Wenger said what he said.
 
gerd said:
Younggun, without wanting to be biased, do you think if you compare the current Man Utd squad player by player with the Arsenal sqaud, that overall Man Utd has better players? I'm not convinced. They certainly have a better defense (although two seasons ago Vermaelen was in the team of the season).

Arsenal lack what Man Utd has in abundance: a winners mentality, the ability to win ugly (and IMO Man Utd are winning too much, too ugly, but although i don't like it, it's a quality). Sometimes i wonder how Ferguson does it, i don't like the man, but you got to admire him for it...since Ronaldo left, i have the feeling that he's got a pretty average squad, but he still gets results....if you see how players like Wellbeck and Cleverley get transformed when playing for United...that is a big difference.
I don't see this happening with Arsenal.
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I think people overrate what they don't know. If there is a young player that has a good half season, suddenly he's amazing, class and the next big thing (and will sign for Real Madrid's bench). Whereas known quantities tend to get underrated. That certainly seems the only way to explain the sentiment that Arsenal, player for player, are better than United. (which isn't just Gerd's view, there wasn't a single United player in last year's team of teh season for a lot of pundits, despite United winning the league and getting the CL final).

I'm ignoring keeper cause people are way too excited about both, who have potential to be very good, but still make too many mistakes.

At full back Arsenal are definitely stronger. Sagna is solid and dependable, United don't have a RB that can manage more than 2 games in a row. Evra hasn't been good for 3 years.

Centre back United are miles and miles better. Ferdinand for some reason is considered completely past it, despite having a very strong year. Evans is generally considered a joke because he screwed up against City, but United win 30% more matches when he plays. Vermaalen and Koscileny are both 'rated' by pundits and fans based on potential, rather than performance. 'If they could get a run in the side'; 'if they could stay fit'; 'if they could cut out the errors'. Fact is United have had to change back 4 23 times this season, and still have conceded 10 less than Arsenal.

In midfield it's similar. People rave about Ramsey and criticise Carrick. If I had to play a match tomorrow I know who I'd want. Carrick is boring because he's been around forever, Ramsey is exciting because he's new and 'potentially' very good. But Carrick is the better player. Song is good but makes very basic mistakes most games, and is always a liability because he fouls so much. Arteta is mediocre. Wilshere might be amazing but he's just like Cleverley - we don't know how good they'll be because they've never managed to do it for more than flashses. Give me Scholes anyday. Even worse are United fans that rate Anderson - a handful of great games in 5 years at the club.

I'll admit that the Ox looks a proper player, but again a game tomorrow I'd pick Valencia or Nani every time. Walcott...well people are turning on him finally as his 'potential' didn't come to fruition. As for Rosicky/Arshavin/etc...eeeeesh. Maybe Gervinho will be good, but who knows? He hasn't been that great yet.

Upfront, obviously RVP is class, and definitely as good if not better than Rooney. But none of the other Arsenal strikers are fit to shine Berbatov's boots, and he can't even get a game for United.

Anyway, this is just a one team example, but I really htink fans and the media get way to into overrating what they don't know. An even better example is in transfers - omg we signed XXX player from YYY look at this YouTube video he's going to be amazing and so much better than what we already have/known premiership player.

Anywho, sorry for the aside, and sorry to hear Mertesacker is out, talk about addingin insult to injury!
 
jonneymendoza said:
No but i imagine loads of people and pundits have hench them rating him high. Should i believe just one person i,e you, or should i believe 100+ of people who all rate Hazard?
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It's pretty obvious that you should believe me and the 100+ people who think you should never overhype a young player. Hazard is far from the finished product and at the moment Arteta is by far the better player. For every Messi there are dozens of Freddy Addu's...

It's is true that Hazard at times shone brightly in Ligue1...just like Romelu Lukaku shone brightly and was seen as the next big thing. Lukaku is fortunate to be on the bench of a very average Chelsea team. And i'm sure on another day you will be the first to point out that Theo Walcott is not as good as expected.

For your information: Eden Hazard is my favourite player, but he is not as good as people think he is. He can become fantatstic, but he can also turn out to be the next Addu.

Often you are far too radical in your views, but that is because you are a passionate fan...so no problem for me.
 
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