Arsenal Thread

gerd said:
This made me laugh soo much, well said...and on top of that, it's true.
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Haha! That's funny, but also sad and true. Diaby didn't look like this gem some people were expecting him to become, but he certainly had the attributes and physique to be a good midfielder.
What bugs me is that apart from his injury problems, this player doesn't have the right attitude.
People say he has all those niggling injuries because of how his leg was broken years ago, but I'm not sure. Look at Valencia, he had an exposed fracture 1 year ago and now he's flying again down the flanks for Man U.
I think Diaby was just destined to be this injury prone player after all.


BobbyBox said:
Yeah well done on your English, it's amazing. Sauce and Honome in the chatbox are both Brazilian aswell and also write really good English :))

I Agree it probably wasn't the best time to play Walcott in that role, but it could have had the other effect of confusing the opposition and for them not to know how to handle Walcott down the middle? If it would have worked, then it would have been genius, but it didn't and as you said the benefit of hindsight is great.

Did you see my post a few days ago, with the link on Bendtner, Diaby and Denilson from Arsenal.com? they are articles just when the players signed their new contracts. In Brief Denilson the season before he signed was 21 and played more games for Arsenal than any other player that season. Diaby had played 26 games with 6 goals etc and looked good and wasn't injuured all of the time. Bendtner had had around 28 appearanced and scored 17 goals, the top under 21 goalscorer in the Premier league at the time.

So I think it justifies the long contracts and the higher wages to keep them at Arsenal, when they made the decisions at those times. It is all well and good looking at them now, but Wenger doesn't have a crystal ball unfortunately.

So it is not just that 'Wenger has put 3 very shit players on alot of Money' like you state. That is very simplistic and just not the way that it happened.

Again if they lived up to their potential, Wenger would have been praised for tieing them down for so long etc.

Flamini wanted to go to Milan, so I don't think he could have done much to prevent that, his best season was the season just before he left. As soon as he knew Milan were interested he wanted to go, so he couldn't be tied down.

Gilberto I agree he should have kept the captaincy and that was a silly mistake by Wenger. He was playing really well and to give the captaincy to Gallas was ridiculous.

The fact that Diaby is on the same money as Van Persie again when Diaby was given his contract he was a great prospect and one to try and tie down. Van Persie was injury prone and nobody knew if he would ever get a full season again or get back to his best again.

Everything you are saying you are using hindsight, which as you said is very easy to do and it is easy to criticise from. But if you actually look at the circumstances of things when they happened, then you get a better outlook on why decisions were made. You get a better more rounded opinion of the situation and you might not get so upset about them.

Believe me I know why the negativity is happening and I think of course people should be negative about certain things. But Again don't add stuff that isn't really factually true to compound arguments and to make situations that are different from what is actually being reported.

For instance I think Wenger has learned from the big contracts and payments to Diaby, Denilson etc. Djourou only got a 2year contract recently, which is a very ordinary contract that any player would get at their club. It isn't over the top or anything. But people went mental, as if he had been given another 5 year contract on 100k a week?!

This is the mentality of alot of Arsenal fans and it just isn't right in my opinion. Fans need to get their facts straight and start supporting the club. I bet you that will have more positive results for Arsenal than all of this pissing and moaning :DD
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Thanks Bobby! :)

The point I was trying to make is that maybe Wenger is losing his touch. I know nobody has a crystal ball, but he is increasingly getting things wrong. I think to have 3 failed players that were important in your project is somehow telling.
I think his decision making is not experimental like that. If it was just about hitting the jackpot, or trial and error kind of thing, you know what? You or me could be managers :D

He doesn't seem to be able to pull off a Vieira kind of move for us anymore - maybe because now money is more of an issue than it was before, and also maybe because there aren't any players quite like that anymore. I think there is definitely a problem with players' attitude nowadays. And that must be the biggest source of disappointment for Wenger.
As Dennis Bergkamp said in that interview, now that he's working with youth players at Ajax, as incredible as it looks, you have to motivate young players more. Sometimes the desire simply isn't there, and you have to "make things exciting" for them. In this day and age when the stakes are much higher and players get loads of money, it's hard to believe it, but there you go.
And I think that's part of the problem with some youth players at Arsenal - Pennant, Bentley, Jay Emmanuel-Thomas and others... and of course Denilson, Bendtner, and to a less extent, Diaby.
Looking at Bendtner being arrested for vandalising cars, you have to wonder where did it all go wrong?

All I know is that this is not working for us anymore and Wenger has to change his policies, his focus on youth players and the salary structure (which is the trickiest one, cause it's not short term).

As for Djourou, I was disappointed to see his contract renewed in the light of his dismal performances against Milan and Sunderland. But now that I'm thinking straight, it's ok, he's a squad player. It's not as if we're getting any top centre back to be a bench warmer. But he has to get his act together. In that Sunderland FA cup match he was looking worse than Squillaci, and that's saying a lot!

You see, I pour out my frustrations and all this negative thoughts here, but I know that Arsenal players aren't reading. It's not as if I'm writing a column on The Guardian dissing AW's methods.
I agree with you to some extent that we shouldn't let the negativity further affect the club. In that respect, I'm as vocal as I can in my support and don't boo when I go to the stadium :)

I don't know how long it is since you went to watch Arsenal, but I think you would be disgusted with some sections of the crowd from what I saw.
 
Rentboy said:
Haha! That's funny, but also sad and true. Diaby didn't look like this gem some people were expecting him to become, but he certainly had the attributes and physique to be a good midfielder.
What bugs me is that apart from his injury problems, this player doesn't have the right attitude.
People say he has all those niggling injuries because of how his leg was broken years ago, but I'm not sure. Look at Valencia, he had an exposed fracture 1 year ago and now he's flying again down the flanks for Man U.
I think Diaby was just destined to be this injury prone player after all.

Thanks Bobby! :)

The point I was trying to make is that maybe Wenger is losing his touch. I know nobody has a crystal ball, but he is increasingly getting things wrong. I think to have 3 failed players that were important in your project is somehow telling.
I think his decision making is not experimental like that. If it was just about hitting the jackpot, or trial and error kind of thing, you know what? You or me could be managers :D

He doesn't seem to be able to pull off a Vieira kind of move for us anymore - maybe because now money is more of an issue than it was before, and also maybe because there aren't any players quite like that anymore. I think there is definitely a problem with players' attitude nowadays. And that must be the biggest source of disappointment for Wenger.
As Dennis Bergkamp said in that interview, now that he's working with youth players at Ajax, as incredible as it looks, you have to motivate young players more. Sometimes the desire simply isn't there, and you have to "make things exciting" for them. In this day and age when the stakes are much higher and players get loads of money, it's hard to believe it, but there you go.
And I think that's part of the problem with some youth players at Arsenal - Pennant, Bentley, Jay Emmanuel-Thomas and others... and of course Denilson, Bendtner, and to a less extent, Diaby.
Looking at Bendtner being arrested for vandalising cars, you have to wonder where did it all go wrong?

All I know is that this is not working for us anymore and Wenger has to change his policies, his focus on youth players and the salary structure (which is the trickiest one, cause it's not short term).

As for Djourou, I was disappointed to see his contract renewed in the light of his dismal performances against Milan and Sunderland. But now that I'm thinking straight, it's ok, he's a squad player. It's not as if we're getting any top centre back to be a bench warmer. But he has to get his act together. In that Sunderland FA cup match he was looking worse than Squillaci, and that's saying a lot!

You see, I pour out my frustrations and all this negative thoughts here, but I know that Arsenal players aren't reading. It's not as if I'm writing a column on The Guardian dissing AW's methods.
I agree with you to some extent that we shouldn't let the negativity further affect the club. In that respect, I'm as vocal as I can in my support and don't boo when I go to the stadium :)

I don't know how long it is since you went to watch Arsenal, but I think you would be disgusted with some sections of the crowd from what I saw.
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The Valencia/Diaby stuff I think is not a good comparison as all players heal differently etc Just because one player comes back well, doesn't mean others will be so lucky. The thing with Diaby is I think if he had a season with no injuries, then we could make a decision on him. But it doesn't look like that will happen as he keeps getting injured, so he will have to go at some point.

I do agree with the motivation of younger players these days, they basically have everything (Material wise) that they could want. It seems like it takes their ambition away. Also it could be the way Wenger deals with his young players? maybe he is too soft on them, or makes them feel like they are a much better player than they actually are? who knows?

Wengers decision making has alot of experience and thought behind it. If you had the top under 21 striker in the premier league in your team, would you not want to keep them? again I don't want to keep harping on about it. But how can you question why Wenger put Bendtner on a long contract etc when at the time, he was one of the best for his age (scoring goals anyway). He just didnt live upto his potential.

Every manager has alot of luck on their side, when you bring in a player you don't really know how they are going to play or how a young player is going to progress. Based on what you have seen previously you need to make that decision. Alot of the best managers in the world have made a number of bad signings, put faith into young players that didn't progress or fulfil their potential.

Unluckily for Wenger these 3 players that showed so much potential when he signed them up on long lucrative contracts have turned out to be not as good as hoped.

I think Wenger is reviewing his policy on youth, we had much more experienced signings in the summer and I expect a couple more in the summer.

The last few games Djourou hasn't been the best, but it was only a season ago, when he looked so good in defence. So I would rather not write somebody off because they have had a few bad games recently (one of those was at right back). So I was happy that he signed a 2 year contract. I couldn't believe the way some fans were reacting over that.

Vermaelen had a shocking game against Ac Milan, if he has one against Spurs, should he not be given a new contract?

I think it is harder to find bargains in world football these days and alot of teams have learned from Wenger to invest alot into their scouts etc along with the money being flung around this day and age as soon as a player shows an ounce of promise, they are worth a ridiculous amount of money, especially English players.

Recently he hasn't done too well and some decisions have been questionable, but I think he still can make another winning team. I think he has learned some things the hard way and will change his ways in the summer. If we get 4th, some of the names banded around like Podolski, Vertonghen, Hazard etc would be welcome and getting rid of the usual suspects of course.

Anyway, if we get below 4th I can either see fan pressure getting Wenger out or Wenger leaving as he feels he can't take us any further (or he gets pissed off with the fans and leaves :PP )

I still don't think it will be the best thing, but of course I will be happy to be proved wrong.....I just really don't want to be proved right as I can see Arsenal really falling from grace in a very bad way otherwise.

Unfortunately I haven't been to any games this season (as I am in Israel) but I went to a few last season and luckily it wasn't at the point it is now, I could easily see myself getting into an argument with some knob next to me now :LOL:
 
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Arshavin has already left for rent ... ;) Hopefully this will help him attain its former shape at least 2-3 more seasons. Welcome back to home, Shava, our legend and our captain!
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This is actually good for Arshavin. When you saw him this season, he was only shadow of his former self.
He's super talented but mentally very fragile and the (or some) Arsenal fans are not exactly known for being very supportive towards players in crisis... In St-Petersburg he is considered a half-god and i'm sure he will return at his best.
 
Really doesn't make sense, unless something happened behind the scenes? or Wenger is going to bring Miyaichi back from loan?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Ashavin fucked off then? For good? Thank god for that
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Careful what you wish for... If Arsenal don't make the top 4 year then it could be (even more) difficult to sign high profile players, I cant see Van Persie staying so an injury (or loss of form) to Chamberlain could leave you with Gervinho and Walcott as attacking options...
 
jonney it is not good. it's exactly the opposite of what we needed to do in january. bobby is right maybe something happened or maybe wenger tries to revive him.
another bad aspect: we're so happy to pay alot of loaned and injured players. plus some unused(/useless maybe).
 
It's Eboué all over again, the fans turn on him, they want him out, in the end the player goes. Yet for most of this season Arsenal have been short of cover in the back line and an option like Eboué would have been better than that waster Squillaci or the rookie Jenkinson who played at the start of the season.
 
Well, you dumb fuckin gooners got your wish. With Arshavin gone, Arsenal has become a team with fewer experienced individuals, not more.
 
I dont understand... with Arhavin gone... are we a better side???? WTH is wrong with Wenger allowing a player to go on loan at this time of the season...even tough He was not in top form, he is still a player with superior technique and skill than the rest of this teenage squad. I wont even be suprised if we heard of Gervinho, walcott or OX picking up injures in the coming weeks to make things worse.
 
Yeah that's a great move for Arshavin, not so great for Arsenal.
Arshavin seems to be a four letter word in north London. The Devil, the Beelzebub, the source of all evil. Arsenal's dire season, and apparently, even poor defending, it's all down to him. Now that he's gone, all will be back on track again and we will start an incredible run to win the Premier League :LOL:

Arshavin is the type of player that makes football interesting and unpredictable, an entertainer if you will. His perceived lack of commitment to the defending aspect of the game was his ruin - although I classify it as complete lack of notion/ability to defend.
It seems the majority of fans in the UK prefer industrious chumps who will run into and tackle anything that moves instead of an artist of football. And Arsenal fans don't even consider how he has been played out of position all along.
Well, so be it. I wish Arshavin the best of luck from now on. Better luck than he had here is not hard to find anyway.
This is surely goodbye for good, even though it's a loan, I reckon he won't come back next season. This move was not to recover him for next season. I think he might have handed a request to move a long time ago. Otherwise, it does not make sense really.

AW has now 3 wingers competing for 2 places. That's less competition, and one more reason for Walcott to be comfortably unproductive, knowing he will play week in, week out.
Not to mention that Wenger seems to refuse using Park or (the now injured) Chamakh. We have less options than ever. I'm not sure this squad will last till the end of the season.

I'm telling you guys, there are some very strange things going on behind the scenes. I have some sources who are more in-the-know who told me there was some bust-up between AST members and Ivan Gazidis at the last meeting. And more, Gazidis, who may have been upset by Wenger's recent comments about £20m profit margins, seemed to have gotten back at Wenger by saying that Juan Mata was "ours", that he gave Wenger £22m to spend (what Valencia wanted), but Wenger tried to play hardball at his own peril by offering £16m and saw Chelsea blow us out of the water with their own £26m bid.

The way I see it, there's not much camaraderie in the club's high ranks and those guys are firing at each other. Very different from what happened when David Dein was working with AW.
If any of this is really true, this might be Wenger's last season regardless of 4th place or not. The atmosphere at the club is worse than ever.

Now with Arshavin also out, we have yet another player the club doesn't want to keep still tied to a contract. There are too many of those out on loan. It seems it will be very difficult to completely clear the decks next summer.
 
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Rentboy said:
Yeah that's a great move for Arshavin, not so great for Arsenal.
Arshavin seems to be a four letter word in north London. The Devil, the Beelzebub, the source of all evil. Arsenal's dire season, and apparently, even poor defending, it's all down to him. Now that he's gone, all will be back on track again and we will start an incredible run to win the Premier League :LOL:

Arshavin is the type of player that makes football interesting and unpredictable, an entertainer if you will. His perceived lack of commitment to the defending aspect of the game was his ruin - although I classify it as complete lack of notion/ability to defend.
It seems the majority of fans in the UK prefer industrious chumps who will run into and tackle anything that moves instead of an artist of football. And Arsenal fans don't even consider how he has been played out of position all along.
Well, so be it. I wish Arshavin the best of luck from now on. Better luck than he had here is not hard to find anyway.
This is surely goodbye for good, even though it's a loan, I reckon he won't come back next season. This move was not to recover him for next season. I think he might have handed a request to move a long time ago. Otherwise, it does not make sense really.

AW has now 3 wingers competing for 2 places. That's less competition, and one more reason for Walcott to be comfortably unproductive, knowing he will play week in, week out.
Not to mention that Wenger seems to refuse using Park or (the now injured) Chamakh. We have less options than ever. I'm not sure this squad will last till the end of the season.

I'm telling you guys, there are some very strange things going on behind the scenes. I have some sources who are more in-the-know who told me there was some bust-up between AST members and Ivan Gazidis at the last meeting. And more, Gazidis, who may have been upset by Wenger's recent comments about £20m profit margins, seemed to have gotten back at Wenger by saying that Juan Mata was "ours", that he gave Wenger £22m to spend (what Valencia wanted), but Wenger tried to play hardball at his own peril by offering £16m and saw Chelsea blow us out of the water with their own £26m bid.

The way I see it, there's not much camaraderie in the club's high ranks and those guys are firing at each other. Very different from what happened when David Dein was working with AW.
If any of this is really true, this might be Wenger's last season regardless of 4th place or not. The atmosphere at the club is worse than ever.

Now with Arshavin also out, we have yet another player the club doesn't want to keep still tied to a contract. There are too many of those out on loan. It seems it will be very difficult to completely clear the decks next summer.
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I wish Arshavin didn't leave, but there is way more to his bad form than being played in the wrong position. In this so called wrong position, he played some great games for us at the beginning of his career and looked the real deal.

He has been out of sorts for a couple of seasons now, hasn't looked deadly or as if he could terrorise defences anymore.

It wasn't because of his shit defensive work aswell that he has been criticised about, this is a fairly recent thing that has been picked up. He just wasn't good enough plain and simple. He hasn't been for a long while.

You call him unpredictable, I think he was very predictable he would look like he didn't give a fuck and every now and again would come up with a good chance.

He was only entertaining for a handful of games in his career with Arsenal, so I think it is a bit rich to label him as entertaining. I have got a 180 score with 3 darts, playing darts a few times, but I wouldn't call myself a Darts Player.

My main descriptions of him though, taking in the whole time are Lazy, unmotivated and lost. Which is sad because when he first came here an on his day he was exciting and could destroy a team when he wanted, he lost that ability for us a long time ago.

Mentally he is a very weak player and that has been his downfall, I said a while ago if he was stronger mentally, then he could have been one of the best players for Arsenal....but he wasn't. he is now one of the biggest dissapointments.

As for the board etc and the relationships with Wenger, I like to knwo what is actually happening, I like 'Sources in the know' stories but more often than not it is bullshit....sorry but I have heard so many people say things like that and for them not to be true. I also think they fan the flames at a time when they really don't need to be fanned :))

Anyway, we may never know what is now going on behind the scenes until Wenger leaves and releases a book, then we might have a better picture.

Mata is a great player and did well for Chelsea initially, but he isn't doing so well now? maybe he only plays well in teams playing well (bit like Arshavin) and when the chips are down he doesn't perform? who knows it is early days, way too early to be bashing Arsene about that particular transfer (If your story is indeed true?)

Arguably he has 4 players that can play on the wings with Benayoun aswell, so hopefully it is enough to cover us to the end of the season. But I too do not agree with letting Arshavin go, because at the very least he is a good person to put on in the last 15mins of a game to try something different, even though most of the time it doesn't work :PP
 
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BobbyBox said:
I wish Arshavin didn't leave, but there is way more to his bad form than being played in the wrong position. In this so called wrong position, he played some great games for us at the beginning of his career and looked the real deal.

He has been out of sorts for a couple of seasons now, hasn't looked deadly or as if he could terrorise defences anymore.

It wasn't because of his shit defensive work aswell that he has been criticised about, this is a fairly recent thing that has been picked up. He just wasn't good enough plain and simple. He hasn't been for a long while.

You call him unpredictable, I think he was very predictable he would look like he didn't give a fuck and every now and again would come up with a good chance.

He was only entertaining for a handful of games in his career with Arsenal, so I think it is a bit rich to label him as entertaining. I have got a 180 score with 3 darts, playing darts a few times, but I wouldn't call myself a Darts Player.

My main descriptions of him though, taking in the whole time are Lazy, unmotivated and lost. Which is sad because when he first came here an on his day he was exciting and could destroy a team when he wanted, he lost that ability for us a long time ago.

Mentally he is a very weak player and that has been his downfall, I said a while ago if he was stronger mentally, then he could have been one of the best players for Arsenal....but he wasn't. he is now one of the biggest dissapointments.

As for the board etc and the relationships with Wenger, I like to knwo what is actually happening, I like 'Sources in the know' stories but more often than not it is bullshit....sorry but I have heard so many people say things like that and for them not to be true. I also think they fan the flames at a time when they really don't need to be fanned :))

Anyway, we may never know what is now going on behind the scenes until Wenger leaves and releases a book, then we might have a better picture.

Mata is a great player and did well for Chelsea initially, but he isn't doing so well now? maybe he only plays well in teams playing well (bit like Arshavin) and when the chips are down he doesn't perform? who knows it is early days, way too early to be bashing Arsene about that particular transfer (If your story is indeed true?)

Arguably he has 4 players that can play on the wings with Benayoun aswell, so hopefully it is enough to cover us to the end of the season. But I too do not agree with letting Arshavin go, because at the very least he is a good person to put on in the last 15mins of a game to try something different, even though most of the time it doesn't work :PP
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As for the current speculation I mentioned, there are some clear signs all around us, you know. I'm not saying what I heard is absolutely true, but just look at the facts that have surfaced: AW and the board are making dissonant sounds. They are not aligned as they should - Wenger said Arshavin wouldn't be leaving and expected him to be here after the 24th, but here we are on the 25th and he is not with us anymore.
That shows all the signs of "directionless management from top to bottom", as Arseblog puts it. He says it better than I do: http://arseblog.com/2012/02/we-had-arshavin-but-not-anymore/

I think we all agree (maybe except Jonney) that this is not good, especially given the timing: during January we didn't sign any reinforcement, and now that we cannot bring anyone new, we let one more player go.
What kind of message does that give on the eve of a north London derby? Not a good one.

I think Arshavin is entertaining and unpredictable, yes. He's creative, in a team that's not exactly overflowing with creativity. We have a midfield almost incapable of doing what he's done a few times this year: perfectly weighted through balls to RvP. This team doesn't play vertically like that.
He's also the kind of guy who is constantly lurking for the unexpected opportunity. I can't think of anyone who would have poked home the winner against Swansea at the Emirates.
As AW defines it even better, Arshavin is a gambler. He looks to give those risky passes, but the ones who will create a real goal scoring opportunity.
However I think he wasn't properly managed. If tracking back is what people constantly expected from Arshavin, when he's never done this at Zenit all his career - and now he's no kid anymore, at 31.
He is a final third player and if people didn't get this by now, it's better to leave it at that. I think there's no reason for me to be dwelling too much on this, I guess I stressed this enough.

I also have discussed sufficiently, I think, the shortcomings of Theo Walcott in the very same areas where Arshavin struggles. The difference being that, Arshavin has real quality about him, whereas Walcott is this "ethernal promise". However the fans and media go easy on him, as I said before.

I totally agree on his lack of motivation, he seems a broken man, who doesn't care a great deal. But please don't go sounding like Wenger talking about mental strength :LOL:
This has become such a cliché in the Arsenal jargon, a word so wrongfully abused. In fact, 70% of our squad is mentally weak. I would only classify guys like RvP, Vermaelen, and SCZC as really strong characters, and maybe Mertesacker and Arteta, who are guys who are mentally strong and can keep their cool.

As for Mata, you probably haven't been watching Chelsea to say that. He's one of the only guys doing well there. Scored against Napoli, scored a screamer of a volley a few weeks ago. This guy is an awesome player, one that is really creative, that would have suited us perfectly. But someone blew it - be it Wenger or Gazidis.

The bad signs are out there mate, they don't even have to be fanned. It's just your choice of trying to interpret them or just ignoring.

PS: the analogy with Darts I didn't really get, maybe because I'm Brazilian and there's a cultural difference there, plus the fact that I think it's a rubbish game for drunks! haha :P
 
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Rentboy said:
As for the current speculation I mentioned, there are some clear signs all around us, you know. I'm not saying what I heard is absolutely true, but just look at the facts that have surfaced: AW and the board are making dissonant sounds. They are not aligned as they should - Wenger said Arshavin wouldn't be leaving and expected him to be here after the 24th, but here we are on the 25th and he is not with us anymore.
That shows all the signs of "directionless management from top to bottom", as Arseblog puts it. He says it better than I do: http://arseblog.com/2012/02/we-had-arshavin-but-not-anymore/

I think we all agree (maybe except Jonney) that this is not good, especially given the timing: during January we didn't sign any reinforcement, and now that we cannot bring anyone new, we let one more player go.
What kind of message does that give on the eve of a north London derby? Not a good one.

I think Arshavin is entertaining and unpredictable, yes. He's creative, in a team that's not exactly overflowing with creativity. We have a midfield almost incapable of doing what he's done a few times this year: perfectly weighted through balls to RvP. This team doesn't play vertically like that.
He's also the kind of guy who is constantly lurking for the unexpected opportunity. I can't think of anyone who would have poked home the winner against Swansea at the Emirates.
As AW defines it even better, Arshavin is a gambler. He looks to give those risky passes, but the ones who will create a real goal scoring opportunity.
However I think he wasn't properly managed. If tracking back is what people constantly expected from Arshavin, when he's never done this at Zenit all his career - and now he's no kid anymore, at 31.
He is a final third player and if people didn't get this by now, it's better to leave it at that. I think there's no reason for me to be dwelling too much on this, I guess I stressed this enough.

I also have discussed sufficiently, I think, the shortcomings of Theo Walcott in the very same areas where Arshavin struggles. The difference being that, Arshavin has real quality about him, whereas Walcott is this "ethernal promise". However the fans and media go easy on him, as I said before.

I totally agree on his lack of motivation, he seems a broken man, who doesn't care a great deal. But please don't go sounding like Wenger talking about mental strength :LOL:
This has become such a cliché in the Arsenal jargon, a word so wrongfully abused. In fact, 70% of our squad is mentally weak. I would only classify guys like RvP, Vermaelen, and SCZC as really strong characters, and maybe Mertesacker and Arteta, who are guys who are mentally strong and can keep their cool.

As for Mata, you probably haven't been watching Chelsea to say that. He's one of the only guys doing well there. Scored against Napoli, scored a screamer of a volley a few weeks ago. This guy is an awesome player, one that is really creative, that would have suited us perfectly. But someone blew it - be it Wenger or Gazidis.

The bad signs are out there mate, they don't even have to be fanned. It's just your choice of trying to interpret them or just ignoring.

PS: the analogy with Darts I didn't really get, maybe because I'm Brazilian and there's a cultural difference there, plus the fact that I think it's a rubbish game for drunks! haha :P
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The 'Clear Signs' you talk about are not really clear are they? if they were clear we would have a very good idea of what is going on. But all we have is speculation that some like to report as nearly truths, when they are far from it.

I know you like Arseblog, so I will take a little bit from there aswell, he also said the Arshavin move could be seen as a ruthless step to let the other players know that if you don't perform, then you will be shipped out? this I don't necessarily agree with, but it is another angle to look at and just shows nothing is ever black and white.

There is such thing as mental strength, Wenger and many people outside of football have mentioned it because it exists, so If I am sounding like Wenger (although Wenger uses it a different context than I am using now) I am sounding like many other people that talk about people not being strong mentally.

To complete a marathon you need to be physically fit, but also mentally strong, I would say a huge part of it is mental, I would even go as far to say it is 50/50 between being physically able and mentally able. Teh same can be applied to being a successful footballer, you can have all of the skill in the world, but if you don't apply yourself mentally, then you are going to fail.

I use the term for Arshavin because it is quite clear he is not strong mentally and I think is the key reason he hasn't succeeded at Arsenal, you like to blame Wenger and him being played out of position, which I think might have contributed to about 15% of the reason why, the rest was up to Arshavin and he couldn't hack it.

Also you say me using the 'mental strength' thing sounds like a cliche, but many of the things you say about Arsenal are cliche and if you read any tabloid or any mainstream media at the moment, the ideas you have are very cliche.

Arshavin has had about 3 good things happen this season as a result of his play. Walcott has set up umpteen more goals at the first half of the season? I'm not saying Walcott is better, I am just saying if you are judging a player on what they have contributed, Walcott has contributed more this season. I also don't think he gets off lightly from criticism either, I have seen many articles, pundits and fans going crazy on how bad they think Walcott is or the like.

Mata is a very good player, I was just saying that, as you never know how a player is going to be overall, Arshavin when he first came looked amazing...he wasn't and you can add many other players to the list (not just from Arsenal but many other teams). So to go crazy at Wenger for not paying the money (if that story is true) is a bit premature, that was what I was trying to say.

I think you (and many others) are fanning the flames with speculation and half truths that do not help the situation at all. I like to deal in facts and things I know and what I have seen, that is my perspective. I am not ignoring anything, I am just not jumping on the bandwagon saying stuff that I do not know is true or not.

The darts analogy was to say that just because somebody has done something a couple of times (Like Arshavin being entertaining) then it does not make them that (As in Arshavin is entertaining). To be described as something, I think you have to be that way for the majority of the time....but that's just me :DD

I don't like calling Arshavin Entertaining when he has entertained me a handful of times, like I will not call Djourou Shit, for playng shit a couple of times...I am in the minority, I know this :PP
 
Maybe it's just down to personal taste then, as Arshavin divides opinions. I think he's entertaining to watch, he thinks out of the box and when he picks up the ball and I'm on the edge of my seat, gives me that glimmer of hope as something unexpected is about to happen.
Look at this, it happened this season, which is his worst season.
YouTube - Arshavin is better than messi
Does this not entertain you?

Of course Walcott will have more assists, he is on the first team for 80% of the time this season, what did you expect? I for one expected more from him. All he does is beat defenders with his pace and square it to RvP. That's fine, that works sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't. Plus, everyone already knows what he is going to do.
BTW, I really don't get why people think so much of Walcott? I really don't. I hope I'm proven wrong, as I want the best for the club, and considering Walcott will have to play even more now with Arshavin gone.

It's obvious to everyone that Arshavin has been a totally different player than he was in his first 2 seasons with Arsenal. More like a shadow of his former self.
But even if you look at last season (when he had been under-performing already) he led the team in assists, didn't he? I can look it up later to confirm this, can't be bothered at the moment.

Exactly what is wrong behind the scenes is not clear. It's all speculation. What I said is that something is clearly wrong, something we may not know, but it is wrong and it's clear.
The manager says he wants to keep a player and then the player goes. That suggests Wenger is not having it his way to say the least.

I don't read tabloids and take whatever Sky Sports has to say with a large pinch of salt.

As for mental strength, I know what you mean and I know it exists. Your description of what it is and the analogy with running a marathon are accurate. All I was saying is that this word is abused by Arsene Wenger after any good result in his post-match interviews. But in truth, if you take a closer look at our squad, Arshavin is far from being alone in the mental weakness department.
Walcott can't keep his cool in front of goal and is an embarrassment on most 1-on-1 situations, plus he never steps up to the plate when it matters.
Gervinho doesn't step up in tough matches (I'll cut him some slack, as he's a new boy in the club).
Diaby, Ramsey, Rosicky. Hell, even Sagna has his Clichy-esque moments and totally switch off.
I could go on.

Unfortunately this team is full of passengers. Most of these guys I cited lack either concentration or attitude to show up and call responsibility for themselves.

That sheer indifference. And I'll throw Arshavin together in this bunch of course. We lack those guys who hate to lose. We need more strong characters, people with attitude like Wilshere, Vermaelen, RvP, you can see it in their faces how they hate to lose.

I support those guys as any Arsenal player, but deep down inside I know when Rosicky comes on he's not gonna change a game for us, and when Diaby comes back from injury we won't notice the difference (actually we will be pissed off again, when he is caught sleeping in possession with his hideous first touch or the next time Barton winds him up to receive a red card).

That's gloomy, I know, but the Arshavin issue is the tip of the iceberg of Arsenal's problems. To cut it short, he is the kind of guy who doesn't care but comes up with something now and then... but then there are lots of others who don't check neither of the boxes. And we need to ship those out and completely overhaul this team.
I don't know If AW is up to this...

EDIT: last season Arshavin was 2nd in assists for Arsenal behind Cesc Fabregas, but that's no shame :D
 
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By the way, seeing how Mandela is in Hospital and all that, I hope we beat Spurs tomorrow without Aaron Ramsey getting in the score sheet :D
 
Rentboy said:
Maybe it's just down to personal taste then, as Arshavin divides opinions. I think he's entertaining to watch, he thinks out of the box and when he picks up the ball and I'm on the edge of my seat, gives me that glimmer of hope as something unexpected is about to happen.
Look at this, it happened this season, which is his worst season.
YouTube - Arshavin is better than messi
Does this not entertain you?

Of course Walcott will have more assists, he is on the first team for 80% of the time this season, what did you expect? I for one expected more from him. All he does is beat defenders with his pace and square it to RvP. That's fine, that works sometimes, but most of the time it doesn't. Plus, everyone already knows what he is going to do.
BTW, I really don't get why people think so much of Walcott? I really don't. I hope I'm proven wrong, as I want the best for the club, and considering Walcott will have to play even more now with Arshavin gone.

It's obvious to everyone that Arshavin has been a totally different player than he was in his first 2 seasons with Arsenal. More like a shadow of his former self.
But even if you look at last season (when he had been under-performing already) he led the team in assists, didn't he? I can look it up later to confirm this, can't be bothered at the moment.

Exactly what is wrong behind the scenes is not clear. It's all speculation. What I said is that something is clearly wrong, something we may not know, but it is wrong and it's clear.
The manager says he wants to keep a player and then the player goes. That suggests Wenger is not having it his way to say the least.

I don't read tabloids and take whatever Sky Sports has to say with a large pinch of salt.

As for mental strength, I know what you mean and I know it exists. Your description of what it is and the analogy with running a marathon are accurate. All I was saying is that this word is abused by Arsene Wenger after any good result in his post-match interviews. But in truth, if you take a closer look at our squad, Arshavin is far from being alone in the mental weakness department.
Walcott can't keep his cool in front of goal and is an embarrassment on most 1-on-1 situations, plus he never steps up to the plate when it matters.
Gervinho doesn't step up in tough matches (I'll cut him some slack, as he's a new boy in the club).
Diaby, Ramsey, Rosicky. Hell, even Sagna has his Clichy-esque moments and totally switch off.
I could go on.

Unfortunately this team is full of passengers. Most of these guys I cited lack either concentration or attitude to show up and call responsibility for themselves.

That sheer indifference. And I'll throw Arshavin together in this bunch of course. We lack those guys who hate to lose. We need more strong characters, people with attitude like Wilshere, Vermaelen, RvP, you can see it in their faces how they hate to lose.

I support those guys as any Arsenal player, but deep down inside I know when Rosicky comes on he's not gonna change a game for us, and when Diaby comes back from injury we won't notice the difference (actually we will be pissed off again, when he is caught sleeping in possession with his hideous first touch or the next time Barton winds him up to receive a red card).

That's gloomy, I know, but the Arshavin issue is the tip of the iceberg of Arsenal's problems. To cut it short, he is the kind of guy who doesn't care but comes up with something now and then... but then there are lots of others who don't check neither of the boxes. And we need to ship those out and completely overhaul this team.
I don't know If AW is up to this...

EDIT: last season Arshavin was 2nd in assists for Arsenal behind Cesc Fabregas, but that's no shame :D
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That video entertained me (and saddened me of what really could have been), the 4 goals against Liverpool Entertained me and the odd goal here and there entertained me. But the majority of the time he hasn't been entertaining...anyway, lets not go over it I was clear and you posting one video just proves my point really, one short video from the whole season.

Walcott has played 33 games to Arshavins 26 this season and has 3 times as many goals and twice as many assists? read from it what you will, statistics can be manipulated into whatever you want, so I won't go on about it too much, as it doesn't take into consideration minutes on the pitch.

Last season I was one of those pointing out how any assists Arshavin got as many people were saying he was useless back then. He can and will set up goals, I think we both agree and we both agree he should have stayed. So there is no point going into it on that front.

And you pointing out how many assists he got in a position he should not be playing in aswell? Which also highlights he can do it and play well in the position he was put in.

Ramsey I think you are being harsh on, because he had a good start to the season (after the humping by man united) and he has the potential to be great for us imo. I still believe if Diaby every got a long run in the side he will play well (we may never know!) and I agree with Rosicky, he has been another one who failed to live upto expectations, but injury has blighted him.

Anyway, I think that the team needs a few more players in, a few players out and Wenger is capable of turning it around next season. Will we get to see it, at the moment it doesn't look good, unless we have a storming end to the season and get 4th.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Careful what you wish for... If Arsenal don't make the top 4 year then it could be (even more) difficult to sign high profile players, I cant see Van Persie staying so an injury (or loss of form) to Chamberlain could leave you with Gervinho and Walcott as attacking options...
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Fuck Ashavin the useless player . He wont be missed and I doubt we will make top 4 anyway.

Also. Nelson Mandela is in hospital. I hope to God Ramsey doesn't score!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
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BobbyBox said:
Walcott has played 33 games to Arshavins 26 this season and has 3 times as many goals and twice as many assists? read from it what you will, statistics can be manipulated into whatever you want, so I won't go on about it too much, as it doesn't take into consideration minutes on the pitch.
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That's very misleading, he's played in over 20 games but he's actually only started 7-8. A lot of his games have been 15 min cameo appearences at the end of a match which Arsenal have been chasing. Look at the mins he's played on the pitch (right hand column) there are a load of times hes been brought on for the last 10-15 mins (e.g. Spurs, Villa, Wigan away games). Whereas Walcott has only not-started 2 of the 24-25 games this season. In terms of mins on the pitch Arshavin statistics are not as bad as you say and Walcott's are over-inflated relative to the Russian's. Walcott's statistics are here (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/theo-walcott/leistungsdaten/spieler_33713.html#GB1) and it's very underwhelming reading.

Personally I think Walcott is the epitome of most of what's wrong with the attacking mentality of the English game. All Walcott has is searing pace, he may as well be running at the Stratford Olympics, he's an absolute "flat track bully". He lacks vision, struggles to deliver a decent cross and sometimes he can barely hit a simple pass (remember Bentner's goal in the Nou Camp 2 years ago, Walcott hit such a bad pass to him it was a complete miracle the Dane scored). 20 goals in 130 games at Arsenal and the deluded sprinter wants to play as a center forward, gunning for the main striker role when Van Persie leaves.

This season I've seen loads of fans say Arshavin's been "hopeless" at defending, yet time and again I've seen Walcott refuse to even attempt to defend, at Old Trafford he got in a slagging match with Jenkinson (the rookie full back signed from Charlton) but the fans seem to give him no criticism at all.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
That's very misleading, he's played in over 20 games but he's actually only started 7-8. A lot of his games have been 15 min cameo appearences at the end of a match which Arsenal have been chasing. Look at the mins he's played on the pitch (right hand column) there are a load of times hes been brought on for the last 10-15 mins (e.g. Spurs, Villa, Wigan away games). Whereas Walcott has only not-started 2 of the 24-25 games this season. In terms of mins on the pitch Arshavin statistics are not as bad as you say and Walcott's are over-inflated relative to the Russian's. Walcott's statistics are here (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/theo-walcott/leistungsdaten/spieler_33713.html#GB1) and it's very underwhelming reading.

Personally I think Walcott is the epitome of most of what's wrong with the attacking mentality of the English game. All Walcott has is searing pace, he may as well be running at the Stratford Olympics, he's an absolute "flat track bully". He lacks vision, struggles to deliver a decent cross and sometimes he can barely hit a simple pass (remember Bentner's goal in the Nou Camp 2 years ago, Walcott hit such a bad pass to him it was a complete miracle the Dane scored). 20 goals in 130 games at Arsenal and the deluded sprinter wants to play as a center forward, gunning for the main striker role when Van Persie leaves.

This season I've seen loads of fans say Arshavin's been "hopeless" at defending, yet time and again I've seen Walcott refuse to even attempt to defend, at Old Trafford he got in a slagging match with Jenkinson (the rookie full back signed from Charlton) but the fans seem to give him no criticism at all.
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As I said you can make statistics look better than they are, most politicians do it on a daily basis. I did put that at the end of what I said.

My point by doing that somewhat, was to highlight the assists Arshavin did last season, most people watched the games he played in and could see the lack of desire etc, the second assists behind Fabregas was just as misleading as my stats on Walcott, this is my point.

I have seen Walcott hit lots of good passes and crosses aswell and finish really well. As I have said he isn't brilliant, but I don't think he is as bad as people make out. I also think Walcott has just as many people having a go at him as Arshavin did/does. I really don't understand where people are getting the no criticism to Walcott thing, as I said I have seen loads of criticism levelled at Walcott?!

Walcott is young and still has alot to learn...Arshavin on the other hand isn't.
 
BobbyBox said:
I really don't understand where people are getting the no criticism to Walcott thing, as I said I have seen loads of criticism levelled at Walcott?!
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From the football terraces and from the media.
I'll use our last encounter with Man U as an example:
Walcott left an improvised Djourou hopelessly alone against Nani and Evra for the most part of that match. At half time, not a word from those cuntish puntdits. In fact, they massacred Djourou in their half time analysis.

In that same match, Arshavin came in to replace Ox under that disgraceful jeering and booing. Minutes later, Valencia dribbles easily past Arshavin, Vermaelen and Song. But only the Russian stuck to Valencia till the end. Result: Welbeck scores from the 8 yards with all the other so called defenders watching him.

What followed next was some of the most disgraceful pieces of punditry, all led by Gary fucking Neville, blaming Arshavin singlehandedly for the defeat, for "gifting the goal" and all that shit. No mention to Walcott's anonymity whatsoever.

That match epitomises what had been happening with Arshavin at Arsenal. He became some sort of pantomine villain at the hands of the media, and the fans didn't help with all that hostility.
I was at the Emirates in a FA Cup tie when 50% of the stadium booed the mere announcements of Arshavin as a sub for that night.
Suddenly he became the root of everything that is wrong with Arsenal, that's what fucking drives me up the walls.

Walcott has it all too easy indeed if you ask me. Despite so many half-hearted performances, being anonymous when we needed him the most, fans still chant his name, pundits steer clear of criticism to him. And on top of that, Stuart Pearce called him up for England, ahead of the Ox!! :LOL:

Walcott must have a hell of a PR team working for his name, I'll tell you. He may even pull off his 100k a week request after all. But he doesn't convince me, he's one of the most overrated footballers in the league.
 
Look mate no one is saying ashavin is to blame for everything that ahs gone wrong with arsenal. the buck stops at wenger but instead of people questioning wenger, they boo and slag off ashavin
 
BOARD pw = per week pa = per annual

Stan Kroenke £25,000 pw. £1,300,000 pa

Ivan Gazidis £18,000 £936,000

Peter Hill-Wood £1,500 £78,000

Ken Friar OBE £1,500 £78,000

Sir Chips Keswick £500 £26,000

Lord Harris of Peckham £500 £26,000



Arsenal payroll for 76 players. Plus staff

FIRST TEAM WAGEs (pw/k) WAGEs (p/yr)

Robin van Persie £90,000 £4,680,000

Andrey Arshavin £80,000 £4,160,000

Mikel Arteta £70,000 £3,640,000

Theo Walcott £70,000 £3,640,000

Thomas Vermaelen £70,000 £3,640,000

Yossi Benayoun £70,000 £3,640,000

Gervinho £70,000 £3,640,000

Manuel Almunia £60,000 £3,120,000

Per Mertesacker £60,000 £3,120,000

Sebastien Squillaci £60,000 £3,120,000

Tomas Rosicky £60,000 £3,120,000

Bacary Sagna £60,000 £3,120,000

Aaron Ramsey £55,000 £2,860,000

Alex Song £55,000 £2,860,000

Jack Wilshere £55,000 £2,860,000

Nicklas Bendtner £52,000 £2,704,000

Marouane Chamakh £50,000 £2,600,000

Abou Diaby £50,000 £2,600,000

Andre Santos £50,000 £2,600,000

Carlos Vela £50,000 £2,600,000

Denilson £50,000 £2,600,000

Johan Djourou £50,000 £2,600,000

Laurent Koscielny £50,000 £2,600,000

Lukasz Fabianski £40,000 £2,080,000

Wojciech Szczesny £40,000 £2,080,000

Armand Traore £40,000 £2,080,000

Ju Young Park £40,000 £2,080,000

Kieran Gibbs £40,000 £2,080,000

Vito Mannone £20,000 £1,040,000

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain £20,000 £1,040,000

Carl Jenkinson £20,000 £1,040,000

Emmanuel Frimpong £20,000 £1,040,000

Ryo £20,000 £1,040,000

Francis Coquelin £15,000 £780,000

Henri Lansbury £5,000 £260,000

Ignasi Miquel £5,000 £260,000

RESERVES

Zak Ansah £1,000 £52,000

Daniel Boateng £1,000 £52,000

George Brislen-Hall £1,000 £52,000

Craig Eastmond £1,000 £52,000

Benik Afobe £1,000 £52,000

Chuks Aneke £1,000 £52,000

Sead Hajrovic £1,000 £52,000

Conor Henderson £1,000 £52,000

Gavin Hoyte £1,000 £52,000

Sean McDermott £1,000 £52,000

Jernade Meade £1,000 £52,000

Rhys Murphy £1,000 £52,000

Nigel Neita £1,000 £52,000

Oguzhan Ozyakup £1,000 £52,000

Sanchez Watt £1,000 £52,000

Icholas Yennaris £1,000 £52,000

Martin Angha £1,000 £52,000

Kyle Ebecilio £1,000 £52,000

Damian Martinez £1,000 £52,000

Elton Monteiro £1,000 £52,000

Jordan Wynter £1,000 £52,000

Jeffrey Monakana £1,000 £52,000

James Campbell £1,000 £52,000

Samir Bihmoutine £1,000 £52,000

Philip Roberts £1,000 £52,000

Ben Glasgow £1,000 £52,000

Reice Charles-Cook £1,000 £52,000

Alban Bunjaku £1,000 £52,000

Isaac Hayden £1,000 £52,000

Zachari Fagan £1,000 £52,000

Jon Toral £1,000 £52,000

Anthony Jeffrey £1,000 £52,000

Serge Gnabry £1,000 £52,000

Hector Bellerin £1,000 £52,000

Kristoffer Olsso £1,000 £52,000

Kyle Bartley £1,000 £52,000

Wellington £1,000 £52,000

James Shea £1,000 £52,000

Pedro Botelho £1,000 £52,000

Samuel Galindo £1,000 £52,000

FIRST TEAM STAFF

Arsène Wenger £135,000 £7,020,000

Pat Rice £30,000 £1,560,000

Link can`t check the validity ,but there some major problems in our wages 52k a year to a kid :SHOCK:
 
Wow if only I were a pro footballer.

Some of these dudes havent even made it yet like the youngsters Ryo and Frimpong still getting 1mil a year. This is really insane but I guess the price stucture of the sport?
 
pes4lyfe said:
Wow if only I were a pro footballer.

Some of these dudes havent even made it yet like the youngsters Ryo and Frimpong still getting 1mil a year. This is really insane but I guess the price stucture of the sport?
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If that list is valid, then it is another thing that people were jumping on with the whole 'Diaby earning the same as Van Persie a week'? it is not true according to that list?....interesting. How do we confirm this?

Ryo and Frimpong are a part of a group of players that are very good, you have to pay them a bit more than the other youngsters.

Also the 52k a year for youngsters I think will be the same at alot of top clubs? be interesting to see. But at a Premier league football club 52k a year is peanuts.....peanuts I would like :DD
 
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