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- #691
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Anonymous
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Of course i've heard of Big Al.
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Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
No hard feelings from me anyway...
Keowns a decent enough bloke and of course we might not be The Champions if he wasnt such a f*ck up :mrgreen:
Remebers Bolton V Arsenal, Keown's own goal that had Wenger Whinging
Keown is king!!!
Champions
Keowns a decent enough bloke and of course we might not be The Champions if he wasnt such a f*ck up :mrgreen:
Remebers Bolton V Arsenal, Keown's own goal that had Wenger Whinging
Keown is king!!!
Champions
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
What exactly is 'flaming'? - I've been having a slightly heated discussion with Arsenal fans but I don't see what has got out of hand. We have differing opinions, but I don't see why we shouldn't discuss this subject? It is, after all, the ONLY story from the weekend.
Are you saying we should all stick to our own clubs threads?
Are you saying we should all stick to our own clubs threads?
- Thread starter
- #696
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English_Bloke
Guest
What makes me laugh are comments like...
"Van Diver did nothing wrong"
and
"Arsenal have a disipine problem"
VD is a cheat - we all know it, well done to Wenger that someone has finally just said it outright. He blatently dived in the shield, and he blatently over reacted to the Vieira leg movement (I won't even call it a kick!) and looked to the ref to book him - after he had clearly kicked Vieira to to ground.
Also re my second comment, I wouldn't totally disagree - but I find it hard to believe people don't pick up on the fact that MORE players are booked AGAINST AFC...what does that say to you? It says to me that our opponents are kicking/fouling/cheating MORE than us. They are up to kick and wind us up...yes we react - to provocation...look at some of the cards we get...
Campbell - flicking out a leg at an awful challange from what's his face - new boy at Manure.
Vieira - flicking a leg towards the player who just jumped into him with a knee & 'kicked' him to the ground.
That's just 2 cards off the top of my head - both after provocation, both against Manure...hmmm...
"Van Diver did nothing wrong"
and
"Arsenal have a disipine problem"
VD is a cheat - we all know it, well done to Wenger that someone has finally just said it outright. He blatently dived in the shield, and he blatently over reacted to the Vieira leg movement (I won't even call it a kick!) and looked to the ref to book him - after he had clearly kicked Vieira to to ground.
Also re my second comment, I wouldn't totally disagree - but I find it hard to believe people don't pick up on the fact that MORE players are booked AGAINST AFC...what does that say to you? It says to me that our opponents are kicking/fouling/cheating MORE than us. They are up to kick and wind us up...yes we react - to provocation...look at some of the cards we get...
Campbell - flicking out a leg at an awful challange from what's his face - new boy at Manure.
Vieira - flicking a leg towards the player who just jumped into him with a knee & 'kicked' him to the ground.
That's just 2 cards off the top of my head - both after provocation, both against Manure...hmmm...
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
English_Bloke said:
Your opinion, but it seems that the entire country sees it very differently. Are we all Man U fans?
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
English_Bloke said:
what makes me laugh are goons like you...
the whole world are against Arsenal :roll:
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
Misfit said:
What do you mean, the 50 odd red cards that have been handed out to the bandits have all been completley unjustified, they did nothing wrong elbowing, stamping & spitting are just parts of the game, if anything we should be applauding them for their fair-play. The refs and other players/clubs all pick on arsenal, its so unfair.....
I bet Vinnie Jones is pissed cos Veira has now offiicially become the dirtiest player ever in The Prem.
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
I think misfit is being sarcastic, Vann.
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
Poo
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
T Butcher fan said:
and I was just adding another layer of sarcasm....
didnt spot the spelling mistake though as im not the best speller myself!
- Thread starter
- #705
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Anonymous
Guest
English_Bloke said:
Great post buddy.
But Vann will always come up with his pathetic posts. Fact of the matter is Man U are the FA, simple as that.
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
Any Mod policing this thread, go to site comments forum. The reason I wrote 'poo' was to stop myself from deleting the entire thread by accident!
- Thread starter
- #707
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Anonymous
Guest
But were discussing things do to with Arsenal, so why does it need locked or deleted.
- 6 October 2001
- Liverpool
T Butcher fan said:
Its been noted mate, everybody carry on.....
- Thread starter
- #709
E
English_Bloke
Guest
Well some of those replies just show how small-minded and 'unfactual' you are.
I must say the fact I made one smelling pistake just shows I must be talking utter shite.
When people can start with realistic comments, please feel free...but until then STFU!
FACT
EXCLUDING the Manure game AFC had 13 Yellows and 1 Red card against them and 19 Yellows and 1 Red against opponents. Last season we were 3rd (I think) in the fair play league and in fact done really well fair play awards for over all 'fairplayness'...things like putting the ball out for opponents to be attended too etc.
I AM NOT SAYING ARSENAL ARE SAINTS...I am simply stating the FACT that we are not dirty as a whole...how can we have less cards than our oposition and be dirtier FFS?!
I must say the fact I made one smelling pistake just shows I must be talking utter shite.
When people can start with realistic comments, please feel free...but until then STFU!
FACT
EXCLUDING the Manure game AFC had 13 Yellows and 1 Red card against them and 19 Yellows and 1 Red against opponents. Last season we were 3rd (I think) in the fair play league and in fact done really well fair play awards for over all 'fairplayness'...things like putting the ball out for opponents to be attended too etc.
I AM NOT SAYING ARSENAL ARE SAINTS...I am simply stating the FACT that we are not dirty as a whole...how can we have less cards than our oposition and be dirtier FFS?!
IceMan_Bergkamp
Total Football
Zico said:
True Zico.. i spoke to someone last night at a bar in the west end. Happens he works for the FA. He reckons the melee that is occuring at the moment is due to the fact that IF Sven fails in the Euro's next year with England, then the FA are going to go for Fergie. Sven will move the opposite way to Manure.
Conspiricy theorists can amalgamate and consolidate all they like, but the underlying tone of the conversation left a sordid taste in my mouth...and cloaked the whole process in a somewhat underhanded aspect....
i was pissed tho', but still managed to capture most of his sayings before i told him to f*ck off and go back and watch the videos from "every angle, even those not seen on TV"..... RVN's chin strap video cam? hehe...
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
English_Bloke said:
I'd like you to prove these 'facts' English bloke. The Times today says from the start of season 2001/02 to the present day, Arsenal have had 20 Red cards to Man Utd's 2 (Both for Roy Keane).
And you said well done to Wenger for calling RVN a cheat, but he refuses to admit or condemn Pires for diving? That somes up Arsenal, and it sums up your argument.
If you are completely blind to your own failings, then there is no point in continuing.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
IceMan_Bergkamp said:
LMBO!!!
This is the best one yet...
Fergie for England!!!
OMG!!!!
This proves how stupid this is becoming...
If Fergie and United are so involved with the FA (as far as I know arsenal have influential figures there aswell) how come when England wanted to train at Uniteds training ground prior to the lichenstein game they we're flatly refused and had to go somewhere else...
but please keep em coming I need a laugh at work today :mrgreen:
IceMan_Bergkamp
Total Football
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
Please read sarcasm when it is sarcasm... hence the last paragraph
glad u had a chuckle!
IceMan_Bergkamp
Total Football
T Butcher fan said:
Ouch! :shock:
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
T Butcher fan said:
Due to comments similar the post your qouting, Arsenal FC are becoming the joke of the whole country. And its not just pricks like that its the players/staff of the club who are also buying into the bullsh*t....
All they had to do was admitt they we're at fault and at least some credability and respectability could have been saved.
- Thread starter
- #716
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English_Bloke
Guest
well you could try counting the cards...13 Y for AFC 19 Y for opponents, that's a fact!
why take it from 2001? hmmm maybe it's because the figures between 2001 & now lean towards what they are trying to say...surely that should be from when Wenger took over or a particular whole season - not 2001 until now, it stinks of 'coaxing' the figures!
I don't think Wenger protecting (on a public front) Pires diving (as indeed did Rednap) is anything compared to Fergy defending Keane for trying to break a fellow professionals leg...or indeed VD for his behaviour during the match "I can back him 100% he's done nothing wrong" - except kick Vieira and then over - react to Vieira's outstreatched leg looking to the ref to sedn the player off...so that negates that.
And as for Manure only getting 2 Red cards, it just shows the blatent biasness they receive, just like the fact they have more pigs flying over OT than the home side conceed penalties...oh no, I'm sure you're right even tho AFC have less cards than thier opponents they are dirtier.
:roll:
why take it from 2001? hmmm maybe it's because the figures between 2001 & now lean towards what they are trying to say...surely that should be from when Wenger took over or a particular whole season - not 2001 until now, it stinks of 'coaxing' the figures!
I don't think Wenger protecting (on a public front) Pires diving (as indeed did Rednap) is anything compared to Fergy defending Keane for trying to break a fellow professionals leg...or indeed VD for his behaviour during the match "I can back him 100% he's done nothing wrong" - except kick Vieira and then over - react to Vieira's outstreatched leg looking to the ref to sedn the player off...so that negates that.
And as for Manure only getting 2 Red cards, it just shows the blatent biasness they receive, just like the fact they have more pigs flying over OT than the home side conceed penalties...oh no, I'm sure you're right even tho AFC have less cards than thier opponents they are dirtier.
:roll:
IceMan_Bergkamp
Total Football
from www.soccernet.com ....
Accused of stamping, branded a cheat and surrounded by over-exuberant Arsenal players, Sunday must have been among the least enjoyable days of Ruud van Nistelrooy's career.
Previously regarded as the most reliable penalty taker in English football, a third consecutive miss made him suddenly fallible. It could yet decide the destination of the title.
But, more than the ball rebounding off the underside of Jens Lehmann's bar, the defining images of Manchester United's top scorer at Old Trafford are his instantaneous jump away from Patrick Vieira's outstretched leg and his impassiveness in the face of a goading, gloating Martin Keown.
So Ruud is innocent, a victim of provocation, supported by his manager and backed by his team-mates. Or is he? A rare penalty miss was greeted with barely disguised glee by many who do not support Arsenal. Central as he was to the drama at Old Trafford, there are other reasons why it was van Nistelrooy, rather than Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand or Gary Neville, who Arsenal targeted.
As a footballer, van Nistelrooy is rightly regarded among the world's top strikers. Eighty goals in two seasons at Manchester United is an outstanding return. Twice reaching double figures in the Champions League is proof he is equally effective in Europe as in England.
That makes him one of Sir Alex Ferguson's best signings and brings the kind of adulation reserved for the very best players in United's history.
Elsewhere, however, van Nistelrooy is more admired than liked. He is a goalscorer par excellence, but he lacks the thrilling pace or elan of his Arsenal rival Thierry Henry. Despite a series of quality strikes at the end of last season, van Nistelrooy's goals are more inevitable than aesthetic masterpieces.
Which, in itself, does not explain why van Nistelrooy's buffeting at the hands of Martin Keown, Ray Parlour and Lauren did not bring him universal sympathy.
Admittedly, commuters on the London underground experience worse on a daily basis but it was hardly what one of the world's foremost strikers is accustomed to.
But if the Dutchman's reputation as a striker is unchallenged, his character is more a subject for debate - and he should not be looking for references from Highbury.
Van Nistelrooy's long-running feud with Keown is scarcely proof of malevolence. Amid the mutual suspicion and enmity of Manchester United and Arsenal, even the seemingly amiable Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has made enemies.
Arsene Wenger, perhaps intentionally patronising the Dutchman, said he 'seems a nice boy'. His disciplinary record suggests as much. Whereas Vieira has now been sent off eight times in the Premiership, Keane seven and Keown six, van Nistelrooy has the princely total of eight bookings and no red cards.
So, despite Vieira's suggestion allegation of stamping, it is hardly a history of bad behaviour. Nor, if team-mates are to be believed, is van Nistelrooy responsible for opponents' red cards.
'There are some people in the game who do try and provoke others but Ruud is not one of them and every player at every other club knows it,' said Phil Neville. The younger Neville's loyalty is admirable, his judgement less so. Van Nistelrooy had established a reputation as an agent provocateur even before his altercation.
In particular, the Dutch forward has proved successful at provoking referees to point at the penalty spot. Helped by an almost symbiotic relationship with Mike Riley, those 18 successful spot kicks came in less than two years. Van Nistelrooy's movement and awareness troubles opposition defenders; his movement to ground in the vicinity of them can cause more difficulties.
Van Nistelrooy has escaped relatively unscathed from several controversial penalty decisions while Francis Jeffers and Robert Pires have been labelled cheats. Sir Alex Ferguson - tongue wedged in cheek? - spoke out against divers before Sunday's game. He made no mention of excessive flinching, though.
And just as van Nistelrooy preys on defensive failings, he looks for temperamental weaknesses. It is inconceivable he did not remember Vieira's earlier booking when he jumped into the Frenchman. Whether he expected the reaction of the Arsenal captain is a moot point. But if the situation was partly of van Nistelrooy's creation, the key decisions were Vieira's and Bennett's.
Thanks to the marvels of the elevated Old Trafford dugouts, Arsene Wenger was temporarily freed of his selective myopia and recognised the provocation. Roy Keane, who provided some of the calmer comments after the game, has reacted to similarly calculated provocation from Alan Shearer in the past. Vieira, like Keane before him, lost his cool however briefly. Van Nistelrooy, in contrast, displayed his composure by not responding to the boisterous Keown.
Slyness and cunning can win penalties or result in opponents' dismissals but never endanger players or van Nistelrooy's participation in the game. Some call it cheating, others regard it as professionalism. And the only cost gamesmanship comes at is personal popularity. Like another unpopular irritant, Robbie Savage, van Nistelrooy 'gets away with it'; referees do not send him off.
It scarcely matters if van Nistelrooy's reported comment of 'you have no class' to Vieira is true. Had the Frenchman retaliated, however, the consequences could have been serious for him.
But such provocation shows why he has supplanted Keane in the affections of non-Manchester United fans, the United player they love to hate. Being a figurehead of the ABU brigade only cements a player's popularity at Old Trafford. Chants of 'Gary Neville is a Red' surely owe more to his pariah status in Liverpool than a few over-hit crosses.
It's not just Arsenal who will come under greater scrutiny from now on. So, too, will Ruud van Nistelrooy. The fall-out from the 'Battle of Old Trafford' might well affect United as well as Arsenal.
Accused of stamping, branded a cheat and surrounded by over-exuberant Arsenal players, Sunday must have been among the least enjoyable days of Ruud van Nistelrooy's career.
Previously regarded as the most reliable penalty taker in English football, a third consecutive miss made him suddenly fallible. It could yet decide the destination of the title.
But, more than the ball rebounding off the underside of Jens Lehmann's bar, the defining images of Manchester United's top scorer at Old Trafford are his instantaneous jump away from Patrick Vieira's outstretched leg and his impassiveness in the face of a goading, gloating Martin Keown.
So Ruud is innocent, a victim of provocation, supported by his manager and backed by his team-mates. Or is he? A rare penalty miss was greeted with barely disguised glee by many who do not support Arsenal. Central as he was to the drama at Old Trafford, there are other reasons why it was van Nistelrooy, rather than Roy Keane, Rio Ferdinand or Gary Neville, who Arsenal targeted.
As a footballer, van Nistelrooy is rightly regarded among the world's top strikers. Eighty goals in two seasons at Manchester United is an outstanding return. Twice reaching double figures in the Champions League is proof he is equally effective in Europe as in England.
That makes him one of Sir Alex Ferguson's best signings and brings the kind of adulation reserved for the very best players in United's history.
Elsewhere, however, van Nistelrooy is more admired than liked. He is a goalscorer par excellence, but he lacks the thrilling pace or elan of his Arsenal rival Thierry Henry. Despite a series of quality strikes at the end of last season, van Nistelrooy's goals are more inevitable than aesthetic masterpieces.
Which, in itself, does not explain why van Nistelrooy's buffeting at the hands of Martin Keown, Ray Parlour and Lauren did not bring him universal sympathy.
Admittedly, commuters on the London underground experience worse on a daily basis but it was hardly what one of the world's foremost strikers is accustomed to.
But if the Dutchman's reputation as a striker is unchallenged, his character is more a subject for debate - and he should not be looking for references from Highbury.
Van Nistelrooy's long-running feud with Keown is scarcely proof of malevolence. Amid the mutual suspicion and enmity of Manchester United and Arsenal, even the seemingly amiable Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has made enemies.
Arsene Wenger, perhaps intentionally patronising the Dutchman, said he 'seems a nice boy'. His disciplinary record suggests as much. Whereas Vieira has now been sent off eight times in the Premiership, Keane seven and Keown six, van Nistelrooy has the princely total of eight bookings and no red cards.
So, despite Vieira's suggestion allegation of stamping, it is hardly a history of bad behaviour. Nor, if team-mates are to be believed, is van Nistelrooy responsible for opponents' red cards.
'There are some people in the game who do try and provoke others but Ruud is not one of them and every player at every other club knows it,' said Phil Neville. The younger Neville's loyalty is admirable, his judgement less so. Van Nistelrooy had established a reputation as an agent provocateur even before his altercation.
In particular, the Dutch forward has proved successful at provoking referees to point at the penalty spot. Helped by an almost symbiotic relationship with Mike Riley, those 18 successful spot kicks came in less than two years. Van Nistelrooy's movement and awareness troubles opposition defenders; his movement to ground in the vicinity of them can cause more difficulties.
Van Nistelrooy has escaped relatively unscathed from several controversial penalty decisions while Francis Jeffers and Robert Pires have been labelled cheats. Sir Alex Ferguson - tongue wedged in cheek? - spoke out against divers before Sunday's game. He made no mention of excessive flinching, though.
And just as van Nistelrooy preys on defensive failings, he looks for temperamental weaknesses. It is inconceivable he did not remember Vieira's earlier booking when he jumped into the Frenchman. Whether he expected the reaction of the Arsenal captain is a moot point. But if the situation was partly of van Nistelrooy's creation, the key decisions were Vieira's and Bennett's.
Thanks to the marvels of the elevated Old Trafford dugouts, Arsene Wenger was temporarily freed of his selective myopia and recognised the provocation. Roy Keane, who provided some of the calmer comments after the game, has reacted to similarly calculated provocation from Alan Shearer in the past. Vieira, like Keane before him, lost his cool however briefly. Van Nistelrooy, in contrast, displayed his composure by not responding to the boisterous Keown.
Slyness and cunning can win penalties or result in opponents' dismissals but never endanger players or van Nistelrooy's participation in the game. Some call it cheating, others regard it as professionalism. And the only cost gamesmanship comes at is personal popularity. Like another unpopular irritant, Robbie Savage, van Nistelrooy 'gets away with it'; referees do not send him off.
It scarcely matters if van Nistelrooy's reported comment of 'you have no class' to Vieira is true. Had the Frenchman retaliated, however, the consequences could have been serious for him.
But such provocation shows why he has supplanted Keane in the affections of non-Manchester United fans, the United player they love to hate. Being a figurehead of the ABU brigade only cements a player's popularity at Old Trafford. Chants of 'Gary Neville is a Red' surely owe more to his pariah status in Liverpool than a few over-hit crosses.
It's not just Arsenal who will come under greater scrutiny from now on. So, too, will Ruud van Nistelrooy. The fall-out from the 'Battle of Old Trafford' might well affect United as well as Arsenal.
Vannizzlefashizzal
TWENTYTIMES!!!!
- 31 October 2002
English_Bloke said:
what are you, the spin man for the bandits or something...
It doesnt matter where the figures come from, or how many yellow cards the opponent gets, 52 red cards in seven years is a f*ckin disgrace by any Premiership standards.
And when did Fergie defend Keane for doing Haaland, get your head out of ya Arse FFS.
You completely (and convienentley) overlook the fact that Ruud was booked for his challenge on Viera, so because you choose which "facts" your gonna talk about your word is worthless.
T Butcher fan
Champions League
- 3 December 2001
English_Bloke said:
Blah blah, what about Man U, blah blah, biased, blah, unfair, blah blah. You know that's what you sound like, don't you? You sound like Kevin from the Harry Enfield show. "Oh my God! It's just sooooo UNFAIR!" Why do you refuse to admit your players acted irresponsibly on Sunday??? It's almost funny!
English_Bloke said:
No it isn't - you've written that, but until you show me some proof other than your imagination, I'm afraid I can't believe you.
And I think the reason they chose the last two years was to show how Man Utd have cured their disciplainary problems, and how Arsenal......haven't.
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- #720
A
Anonymous
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TB, could you send me that PM again as i deleted it by mistake.
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