Arsenal thread

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Well if you are not prepaired to spend time to back up your arguement then how can you say anything anyone says is fact or not?

There is a site with write-ups for AFC games - in there is the yellow & red card count.

So far this year we have 17 Y & 2 R oppenents have 23 Y and 1 R.

Last season we had 55 Y & 3 R oppenents had 66 Y & 8 R...again I ask - who is the dirtier?

It's very easy to pick and choose what facts you want to use - by Fergy not saying he was (at least) disapointed by Keanes actions is the same as defending it - he was asked about it & never said anything negative. Yes VD was booked, I never said he wasn't...but isn't kicking someone (like VD done) worse than Vieira moving a foot towards a player (who is well out of reach)?

Over the last 2 seasons the card count is 72 Y & 5 R vs 89 Y & 9 R, that's quite a bit worse IMO (23% more yellows and 80% more reds), I will go back further when I have more time, oh and these are PREMIERSHIP stats only - I cannot find reliable data for other competitions...but I can assure you these are FACTS and not coaxed in any way, there'd be no point in doing that and then argueing without FACTS.
 
Zic, doubt I still have it. I was just explaining what the 'poo post' was all about. I nearly deleted this whole thread - I haven't been able to delete a thread since (and I know people are thinking I'm talking nonsense!) but it definitely disappeared for about 30 seconds till I clicked back to post in it and keep it alive.

It also explains why all these threads keep disappearing.
 
T Butcher fan said:
Zic, doubt I still have it. I was just explaining what the 'poo post' was all about. I nearly deleted this whole thread - I haven't been able to delete a thread since (and I know people are thinking I'm talking nonsense!) but it definitely disappeared for about 30 seconds till I clicked back to post in it and keep it alive.

It also explains why all these threads keep disappearing.
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Ok, no probs.
 
English_Bloke said:
Well if you are not prepaired to spend time to back up your arguement then how can you say anything anyone says is fact or not?

There is a site with write-ups for AFC games - in there is the yellow & red card count.

So far this year we have 17 Y & 2 R oppenents have 23 Y and 1 R.

Last season we had 55 Y & 3 R oppenents had 66 Y & 8 R...again I ask - who is the dirtier?

It's very easy to pick and choose what facts you want to use - by Fergy not saying he was (at least) disapointed by Keanes actions is the same as defending it - he was asked about it & never said anything negative. Yes VD was booked, I never said he wasn't...but isn't kicking someone (like VD done) worse than Vieira moving a foot towards a player (who is well out of reach)?

Over the last 2 seasons the card count is 72 Y & 5 R vs 89 Y & 9 R, that's quite a bit worse IMO (23% more yellows and 80% more reds), I will go back further when I have more time, oh and these are PREMIERSHIP stats only - I cannot find reliable data for other competitions...but I can assure you these are FACTS and not coaxed in any way, there'd be no point in doing that and then argueing without FACTS.
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They are coaxed cos your only choosing to take the last two years, there is no amount of spin you can put on it to make their record look any different and trying to deflect it on other teams just makes your points even more lightweight than they already are.

52 Red cards over 7 years = 7.2 cards per season

Viera has the most Red cards in Prem history (and he's only played 7 of the 11 years)

its easy to say the card count has improved but so it should have done.

Wengers comments on anything are pretty much summed up with " I didnt see it" so based on your thinking the fact that he's never said anything negative on the 52 Red Cards then he condones stamping, spitting and flying elbows.

Like I said Ruud was booked for an unfair challenge, what more do you want, you cannot react in any physical way to another player actions, simple as that, if anything Viera kicking out was worthy of a straight Red, if you dont see the reasoning in that rule then there is no point in even discussing this with you.
 
I WILL go back further - just not at the moment (it takes time!).

I don't think Wenger is too unlike Fergy - they both deal with the incidences out of the 'presses' eyes...the only time Fergy has outrightly slammed a player was Jeffers!

VD effectively kicked PV to the ground - that is a red card offence.

And after all is said the facts speak for themselves - more players are booked from our opposition.
 
English_Bloke said:
I WILL go back further - just not at the moment (it takes time!).

I don't think Wenger is too unlike Fergy - they both deal with the incidences out of the 'presses' eyes...the only time Fergy has outrightly slammed a player was Jeffers!

VD effectively kicked PV to the ground - that is a red card offence.

And after all is said the facts speak for themselves - more players are booked from our opposition.
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I do appreciate seeing ya team thru tinted specs but your bordering on ridiculous, did you even see the game??

and as for "more players are booked" what does that prove, it still doesnt disprove the theory and evidence that Arsenal are a dirty team when they average at 7.4 red cards per season.
 
There's nothing 'tinted specs' about FACTS that's why they are FACTS rather than biased views.

I cannot go back further (unfortunately) but I am 100% more players have been booked on the opposing side as this came up a couple of years ago.

The facts do speak for themselves that AFC need to 'clean their act up', I am simply trying to say that being brandished the Prems dirtiest team is too far from the truth to even contemplait...consistantly more players are booked against us - showing teams are trying to wind us up or chop us down.

That's why it came to a head for Manure as teams tried to 'get at them'...fair play they've done well (as you point out) but they are no angels...VD gets away with a lot of diving (please correct me if I'm wrong) - but diving = a card, if a player dives & looks of a pen - if it isn't a pen its a dive by definition and therefore should be carded.

As for the stats being taken from 2001, that'd be because the season prior we only got 3 cards all season in all competitions. UNFORTUNATELY (and to prove I am at least TRYING to be unbiased to a point!) the season before that we got 12 red cards!!

But I don't recall any pats on the back for Wenger when 12 was turned into 3 in one season!!
 
English_Bloke said:
There's nothing 'tinted specs' about FACTS that's why they are FACTS rather than biased views.

I cannot go back further (unfortunately) but I am 100% more players have been booked on the opposing side as this came up a couple of years ago.

The facts do speak for themselves that AFC need to 'clean their act up', I am simply trying to say that being brandished the Prems dirtiest team is too far from the truth to even contemplait...consistantly more players are booked against us - showing teams are trying to wind us up or chop us down.

That's why it came to a head for Manure as teams tried to 'get at them'...fair play they've done well (as you point out) but they are no angels...VD gets away with a lot of diving (please correct me if I'm wrong) - but diving = a card, if a player dives & looks of a pen - if it isn't a pen its a dive by definition and therefore should be carded.

As for the stats being taken from 2001, that'd be because the season prior we only got 3 cards all season in all competitions. UNFORTUNATELY (and to prove I am at least TRYING to be unbiased to a point!) the season before that we got 12 red cards!!

But I don't recall any pats on the back for Wenger when 12 was turned into 3 in one season!!
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Nah I know we're no angels, no team is, and fair play (no pun) they probley arent the dirtiest team,

Ruud being labeled as a diver seems to come from him getting Ipswich sent down by diving for a pen, and its well known within the club that Ruud has been told in no uncertain terms to improve that aspect of his game, yes ive seen him go to ground abit easy since but ive also seen the ref shake his head at him and tell him to get up also for the amount of Pens he takes its wrong to suggest he's won them all himself.

But im not arsed at him being labeled a diver, so have alot of great players, but its arsenal ranting about the wrongs of diving when as recent as their last home game in the league they had to dive to rescue a point against Pompey (even they didnt celebrate like arsenal did on sunday after getting a point) and their last home game against Inter Ljunberg dived for a pen.

And no Wenger doesnt deserve a pat on the back for sorting out a problem that he should have sorted when he joined the club just as Keane doesnt deserve a pat on the back for no longer being reckless and bringing the clubs name under scrutiny.
 
T Butcher fan said:
6 Arsenal players and 2 Man U to be charged.

Cole
Keown
Lehman
Parlour
Viera
Lauren

Ronaldo
Giggs
P Neville gets a warning
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That sounds fair to me...

only person missing is Henry for winding up the fans afterwards.....
 
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
T Butcher fan said:
6 Arsenal players and 2 Man U to be charged.

Cole
Keown
Lehman
Parlour
Viera
Lauren

Ronaldo
Giggs
P Neville gets a warning
Click to expand...

That sounds fair to me...

only person missing is Henry for winding up the fans afterwards.....
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Fuck off!! The Man U fans were giving Ashley Cole terrible abuse, so why can't the fans take it back?
 
I actually think RVN should be included in that list for the goings on in the tunnel afterwards.

Also, if RVN isn't cited (presumably because the ref dealt with him at the time) then I don't think Vieira should be either - unless this has something to do with the tunnel incident.
 
Zico said:
Fuck off!! The Man U fans were giving Ashley Cole terrible abuse, so why can't the fans take it back?
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cos players arent allowed to provoke fans zico lad....

Its okay for you zico cos your an armchair supporter, but your fellow goons who went to the match wont feel the same...

Henry winds up United supporters...

United supporters slap the arsenal fans around...
 
T Butcher fan said:
I actually think RVN should be included in that list for the goings on in the tunnel afterwards.

Also, if RVN isn't cited (presumably because the ref dealt with him at the time) then I don't think Vieira should be either - unless this has something to do with the tunnel incident.
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Ruud didnt get envolved in anything but a conversation in the tunnel, it was Viera who threatned Ruud in the tunnel...

Anyway the tunnel incident isnt being brought up because nothing really happened, Viera is being done for taking to long to leave the pitch after being sent off.
 
Ashley Cole has been charged with improper conduct (breach of FA Rule E1) for his involvement in a confrontation with Manchester United player Cristiano Ronaldo after the final whistle
Martin Keown has been charged with improper conduct (E1) for confronting Manchester United player Ruud van Nistelrooy following the penalty miss, and with violent behaviour (breach of Rule E2) for striking van Nistelrooy on the back of the head following the final whistle
Lauren has been charged with two counts of improper conduct (E1), for confronting van Nistelrooy after Patrick Vieira's sending-off, and for confronting Manchester United player Ryan Giggs after the final whistle. He has also been charged with two counts of violent behaviour (E2), for kicking out at Manchester United player Quinton Fortune following the penalty award, and for forcibly pushing van Nistelrooy in the back following the final whistle
Jens Lehmann has been charged with improper conduct (E1) for confronting referee Steve Bennett after Patrick Vieira's second yellow card and for then persistently seeking to confront van Nistelrooy
Ray Parlour has been charged with improper conduct (E1) for confronting van Nistelrooy after the final whistle, and with violent behaviour (E2) for grabbing at Manchester United player Gary Neville from behind shortly afterwards
Patrick Vieira has been charged with improper conduct (E1) for failing to leave the field of play following his sending-off, and for instead seeking to confront van Nistelrooy and engaging in a verbal exchange with Fourth Official Neale Barry

Vann's right about the Arsenal players. The goon fans got a very nasty reception outside by all accounts, and thats largely down to the scenes at the end of the game. They should be more responsible.
 
T Butcher fan said:
Vann's right about the Arsenal players. The goon fans got a very nasty reception outside by all accounts, and thats largely down to the scenes at the end of the game. They should be more responsible.
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yep I guarantee that would have not happened if the players hadnt done that after the game, I mean what the f*ck is Henry thinking gesturing "come on then" to The Stretford End FFS.
 
I agree with your comments Van (in reply to mine).

With regards to the fans I went to a game a few years back that ended 0-0, right near the start of the season - boring as hell, nowt happened & the train had bricks thrown at it on the way home - so they need no provocation!

Also tho I'd like to say that fans should just take what the players give back (within reason!!), I agree that they are paid, but some of the shit they put up with is awful...then they turn round and say "shut up" and before u know it they're in front of the FA getting a ban!! If u can't take it, don't dish it out.

More to the point Manure fans were probably charged up 'cos of the amazing last 12 mins and the fact that you effectively lost 2 points (by missing the penalty) & all hell breaking lose!!
 
English_Bloke said:
With regards to the fans I went to a game a few years back that ended 0-0, right near the start of the season - boring as hell, nowt happened & the train had bricks thrown at it on the way home - so they need no provocation!
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that could have been local kids, little bastards some of them :)

English_Bloke said:
Also tho I'd like to say that fans should just take what the players give back (within reason!!), I agree that they are paid, but some of the shit they put up with is awful...then they turn round and say "shut up" and before u know it they're in front of the FA getting a ban!! If u can't take it, don't dish it out.
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In an ideal world I agree but we're talking about mob mentality add that to the passion and adrenaline that runs thru the crowd fueled by alcohol and its a pretty volatile mix,

Fans pay wages, so as paying spectators we have the right to pass comment on what happens on the pitch, racial abuse etc is defo uncalled for and I dont feel it has the same effect as me calling a player sh*te.

Look at the abuse Beckham suffered for years about his wife and kids but his answer was to silence the crowd with his football, standing on a pitch where the fans cant get at you and baiting them is cowardly.

After I calmed down I felt for some of the gooners especially when some guy with his son on hos shoulders had a pint lobbed at him.

English_Bloke said:
More to the point Manure fans were probably charged up 'cos of the amazing last 12 mins and the fact that you effectively lost 2 points (by missing the penalty) & all hell breaking lose!!
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We we're also charged up and gutted when the gooners took the title at OT but the retrobution wasnt dished out to the fans.

I s'pose we'll never know 100% whether is wouldve happened anyway but bearing in mind that the away fans get let out same time as us Ive not seen it happen for ages, even when our more hated rivals visit it does make me think it could have been avoided.
 
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
Zico said:
Fuck off!! The Man U fans were giving Ashley Cole terrible abuse, so why can't the fans take it back?
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cos players arent allowed to provoke fans zico lad....

Its okay for you zico cos your an armchair supporter, but your fellow goons who went to the match wont feel the same...

Henry winds up United supporters...

United supporters slap the arsenal fans around...
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Not everyone can afford to goto the matches you know. You think you know everything because you goto the matches all the time, when infact you don't have a clue.

BEATTIE, 90

KEOWN IS KING!

SMELL THE GLOVE!
 
sorry if it's been mentioned ( :oops: ) but Wenger has been called before the FA to explain his comments after the match!!

"Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger has been asked to explain why he suggested United striker Ruud van Nistelrooy cheated in order to get Vieira sent off. "
 
This is fucking terrible what the FA are doing to us. A manager tells the truth, but somehow you get punished for it. Now something aint right. :roll:

BEATTIE, 90

KEOWN IS KING!
 
That's the way it is tho - u aren't allowed to outrightly say anything like that, esp. about refs or Manure players.

I still think the FA should speak to VD - either that or the next tie he cheats view the video (like they do with us)...in the CS they viewed the video of Campbells flick (after a player dangerously 'kicked' him) but they didn't view the blatent dive by VD which is cheating & supposed to be a bookable offence.

The problem is consistancy (as ever) they will make an example of AFC (again) and then let others off...all that pushing and shoving leaves 8 players with possible bans - yet 2 broken bones for 'pool players seems to have been overlooked.

No-one was hurt at OT, yet as it's AFC involved...

Don't get me wrong Keown (in particular) was out of order - but it wasn't that hard how he hit VD - yet I've seen it described as an elbow FFS!!
 
Zico said:
KEOWN IS KING!
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I'll second that....

Heres to Marty!!

_39143191_keown_g3245.jpg


CHAMPIONS
 
Zico said:
Not everyone can afford to goto the matches you know. You think you know everything because you goto the matches all the time, when infact you don't have a clue.
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FFS zico you thick c*nt lay off the glue I know it takes alot for you to write a couple of sentences but read the feckin posts before you reply.
 
Vannizzlefashizzal said:
Zico said:
Not everyone can afford to goto the matches you know. You think you know everything because you goto the matches all the time, when infact you don't have a clue.
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FFS zico you thick c*nt lay off the glue I know it takes alot for you to write a couple of sentences but read the feckin posts before you reply.
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lol!
 
Well at last Wenger has apologised:

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger issued a qualified apology for his players' loss of self-control at Old Trafford but still insisted that the ensuing condemnation of them had been an "over-reaction".
The Football Association have charged Arsenal as a club for failing to control their players, while six members of the first-team squad are also individually charged with misconduct.

That theoretically means that Martin Keown, Lauren, Ray Parlour, Ashley Cole, Jens Lehmann and Patrick Vieira could face suspensions totalling up to 20 games.

Wenger, meanwhile, has been asked to explain his outspoken post-match criticism of Ruud van Nistelrooy, whose clash with Vieira sparked the angry scenes during last Sunday's goalless draw.

The Arsenal manager had defended his players immediately after the game at Old Trafford and had issued no other public comment until today.

He declared: "I thought we over-reacted after the game and we apologise for that. I think we have to keep control of our behaviour in every situation.

"On the other hand, I think you could say that the media response was an over-reaction as well. It was not in proportion to what happened at all. That is maybe not surprising but also not right.

"We have to be conscious that we didn't behave in a perfect way like we should have, but also not to be too much victimised by what people say.

"If one of my players had tackled someone round the throat or hit somebody in the face during the game, I would feel much more shocked than I am.

"I have been in English football for seven years now and I have witnessed situations that were 10 times worse that were not punished.

"That doesn't mean we were right but it does mean that some people get away here with some things they shouldn't get away with."

While two Manchester United players have also been charged, Wenger seemed aggrieved at the scale - and speed - of the FA response against his own club.

"The FA response was quite quick as they react to the media reaction, that's all," he insisted.

"If you could imagine that the game had happened somewhere without Sky TV being there, nothing would have happened.

"The FA would not even have known about it. I was at the game and I didn't even know about what had happened when I went to the dressing-room.

"We just have to acknowledge that we were not right but defend our players and get things into the right proportion.

"I have spoken to the players and they acknowledge that they have to keep control and behave in a different way.

"But between what we've seen on football pitches and in corridors and what happened there, I think the response we got was an over-reaction. The media could be charged with over-reaction as well."

Asked if he was ashamed of any of his players' reactions, Wenger, whose side face Newcastle at Highbury tomorrow night, said in a radio interview: "I was surprised at what happened.

"Of course, you try to understand why and how it all went, but none of my players killed anybody.

"It will be a problem if they all get suspended, of course, but we will face that if it happens.

"The players are hurt. There was a big shock for us after the game but we have shown our strength before and we want to win the game tomorrow."
 
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