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Why are PES 5 & 6 so highly regarded?

M

MysticReverie

Non-League
30 July 2021
It obviously must be down to gameplay, but what aspects particularly shine?
Bearing in mind it was only an 8-way control system and the 360 degrees control wasn't brought in until 2010.
 
Personally I have always had PES 3 as my favourite but Konami for that time period up to PES 6 created football games that really have yet to be surpassed overall.

There has been some good football games since some early FIFA games circa 2010 then PES 17/18/21 but none have created that feeling of football as much as that era of PES
 
For me, it's how it sticks rigidly to the principles of what makes football such a challenging, exciting sport - and it's an upgrade from previous versions IMO (a more realistic, slower pace - more variety in ball physics and contact outcomes - better interpretation of player attributes in the way players "feel" - more varied AI).

In-fact, speaking of AI - I think the lack of 360-control actually helped in that regard (fewer variables to consider, easier to predict outcomes as a result, easier to create a realistic AI response and tweak it to "perfection").

In a nutshell... You had to think about what you were doing - and the lack of control you had (with attributes restricting what is possible) was a good thing.

This was an era where the developer wasn't afraid to make things realistically difficult - if you try scoring from 40 yards out with a defender, you're going to smash it into the crowd, and if you try running through the midfield with a terrible player, you're going to lose possession. On the new games, you aren't punished for doing stupid things.

For example, a common complaint in FIFA/EAFC over the last decade has been "I pressed shoot in-front of goal, you can see I'm pointing towards the goal, but the shot went wide - WHY, shit game". The complainant is not interested in hearing e.g. "the ball was spinning as you hit it", "the player was off-balance", "the players finishing attribute was 1 out of 99"...

All modern football titles are made to satisfy the complainants, who are just waiting to scream "SCRIPT!!!!1" whenever they don't score, or don't win.

Whereas, in PES5/6, if you don't play football by using the common sense of football (e.g keeping possession and looking for opportunities), you'll struggle. You have to think, you have to grind, you have to work.

The feeling of reward when your work pays off - as opposed to just skating from box-to-box to shoot over and over again in the modern games...

It's a level of satisfaction long lost in gaming.
 
They were balanced games, with a very good A.i, great responsivness,and a good depiction of fundmentals.
Pes5,in particoular,is probably the best football game ever made, it still has the best physical challenges than every game came after it, and a brilliant defensive gameplay which punish with fouls who just spam pressing everywhere.
It's faults were about attacking A.i ,but play against humans was amazing. In my opinion old PS2 Pes 1vs1 were something else and no modern gamers come close to them in this regard.
Another game i love is We10, the real Pes 5.5, an amazing game ruined by bad goalkeepers.

The only game modern game that give me Pes5 vibes is FIFA 16, where i can enjoy 360 controls and semi/manual passing,but something is missed from the old Pes formula,and i really can't put a finger on what It is.
Maybe is about player's individuality, something that shines on old Pes.
 
So today ,after some months playing fifa 16 and gt7,i went back on Pes5..
I can now put one, maybe two fingers too about why it is so special, even overall better than that amazing game which fifa 16 is.
Even without 360 degrees dribbling,even with only few animations, is outstanding how the game make u feel difference between players. It's really deep how stats impact on the pitch. It is a totally different experience play with Juventus or InterMilan and Milan...

Try be on the ball with Adriano, then with Ibrahimovic,two players that seems overall simlars looking their exagon stats,but how they make u play on the pitch is a totally different experience.
We go back,in the midfield: Pirlo look always for a good position to receive the ball,his passes are something else and his class allow u to come out from close situations like he did in real life.
Gattuso is everywhere but a disaster on the ball.
We have Emerson and Viera, they again seems similar on exagon,but again their differences on the pitch are more than subtles.

Teamplay stat is another important fearure, cause u can really see how much better players on the pitch move with a higher stat.

Not only players individuality,but football's fundmentals are all there. The game is physical, tight,referee is the best we have ever see on a football game,ball physics and first touch give us a lot of random moments..

It's sad i am writing this,like i am talking about some new football's game Messiah, after i played some matches on Fc24.
 
Well, those are the reasons why PES 5/6 shine (but I can go even backwards that includes also PES 3&4), where the modern games are not even close:

- fluid & responsive gameplay
- smart AI that can approach & adapt differently
- unpredictable moments on the field while manipulating the ball / tangible contact between players / lots of diversity in goal scoring opportunities
- keepers are acting naturally and not over exagerated during animations
- in depth tactical & individual player postioning by unique stats or condition in the game plan
- risk/reward mechanics that counts by changing formations during matches or picking subs
- stamina depletion that can destroy your pacing if you're pressing always the sprint button
- fatigue & injuries are crucial in a long run during cups or entire seasons
- very fast menus to navigate or to transition into matches / on point UI (no pink/purple neons blink-blink)
- there are rewards to unlock in the PES-Shop while you're playing & enjoying the game (players, classic teams, stadiums, music, etc.)

- and lastly but not last, the modding community:

PES 3-6 All Seasons Patches Collection.png

Those are my all time favorites, but you can experience classic PES 100 times differently by mixing some prefered flavor to your vanilla with fully modded conversions made by this great EvoWeb community: classic encyclopedia patches of the past decades back to early 30's, all posible seasonal patches made until 2024, or mini patches that can offer an entire WC/EURO experience, fully made with care.

Those previous bullet points in my opinion are what makes those PES versions timeless masterpieces and packaged with such a deep replayable value...
 
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etb10dmk said:
Well, those are the reasons why PES 5/6 shine (but I can go even backwards that includes also PES 3&4), where the modern games are not even close:

- fluid & responsive gameplay
- smart AI that can approach & adapt differently
- unpredictable moments on the field while manipulating the ball / tangible contact between players / lots of diversity in goal scoring opportunities
- keepers are acting naturally and not over exagerated during animations
- in depth tactical & individual player postioning by unique stats or condition in the game plan
- risk/reward mechanics that counts by changing formations during matches or picking subs
- stamina depletion that can destroy your pacing if you're pressing always the sprint button
- fatigue & injuries are crucial in a long run during cups or entire seasons
- very fast menus to navigate or to transition into matches / on point UI (no pink/purple neons blink-blink)
- there are rewards to unlock in the PES-Shop while you're playing & enjoying the game (players, classic teams, stadiums, music, etc.)

- and lastly but not last, the modding community:
View attachment 285023
Those are my all time patches favorites, but you can experience classic PES 100 times differently by adding some prefered flavor to your vanilla with fully modded conversions made by this great EvoWeb community: classic encyclopedia patches of the past decades back to early 30's, all posible seasonal patches made until 2024, or mini patches that can offer an entire WC/EURO experience, fully made with care.

Those previous bullet points in my opinion are what makes those PES versions timeless masterpieces, packaged with such a deep replayable value...
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And I thought I'd a lot of patches... 🤣

I feel nostalgia plays a part, as well as where games have gone. Ask NFS fans what's the best NFS, and many will say UG2 and MW 2005. Both from the same era as PES 3-6. GTA San Andreas? Released in 2004. Half-life 2, 2006. The best NASCAR games, 2004-2006. Games were made with care back then. Made with the audience and their enjoyment in mind. I personally loved the PES 5 kit swapping feature for shirts/shorts/socks.

And in terms of gameplay, it's the unpredictability. I love any player who can score long range shots and free kicks. And I tend to shoot from distance quite a lot in football games. PES 5 & 6 in particular, the feeling when you smash it home is superb. Free kicks also. But more than that, it's the little things. I remember PES 4, Santa Cruz came off injured. And when he returned to the pitch, he had tape around his knee. The player complaining to the referee when he doesn't give the penalty or free kick. It was ahead of it's time in some respects
 
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Well yea, once gaming became this huge business in the 2000s it declined in many ways. Not just PES, sports games, etc...but mainstream gaming in general. Long gone are the days when it was designed by and made for the actual enthusiasts. If it wasn't for indies, I'd be strictly retro.
 

Why are PES 5 & 6 so highly regarded?​

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I think PES 6 has its status because not enough players are aware of PES/WE 2008 (PS2 version). :P

Don't get me wrong, PES 6 is great, it's just that 2008 (PS2) improved it where needed.

Too bad the PC version is the PS3 version instead of the PS2.

PES 5 is a different beast though. I'd not say better or worse than 2008, just different.
 
For me its that even after all these years you could still see something new happen infront of the goal. Its this "everything can happen" feeling because of the great ball physics and the fact that you get punished doing something that should not work in real life. I always compare the old pes games to more like a playground and a game built around it. its just so varied and at the same time realistic.

Btw we should send this post to 2K Sports for their next Fifa game ;)
 
Chris Davies said:
It's a level of satisfaction long lost in gaming.
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This is one of the key points, the attitude and culture of casual gamers has changed. Difficulty and skill gap was acceptable and appreciated 20 years ago. Now gamers want convienience (not a bad thing in an array of games such as saves/check points/item management/controls etc.) and developers are afraid of backlash or consumers going elsewhere and spending their money they strive to give them it.

the issue is when it comes to competitive games like football or fighting games, dumbing down the mechanics so everyone feels like they can achieve something destroys the very essence of challenge.

Like The Rolling Stones put it, you can't always get what you want and in gaming you certainly shouldn't. What is it to be rewarded if you did nothing to earn it?
 
Marlon Anthony said:
This is one of the key points, the attitude and culture of casual gamers has changed. Difficulty and skill gap was acceptable and appreciated 20 years ago. Now gamers want convienience (not a bad thing in an array of games such as saves/check points/item management/controls etc.) and developers are afraid of backlash or consumers going elsewhere and spending their money they strive to give them it.

the issue is when it comes to competitive games like football or fighting games, dumbing down the mechanics so everyone feels like they can achieve something destroys the very essence of challenge.

Like The Rolling Stones put it, you can't always get what you want and in gaming you certainly shouldn't. What is it to be rewarded if you did nothing to earn it?
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I agree but Elden Ring is he opposite of this and everyone loved it because it was a challenge etc. Why can't you have the same in a football game?
 
Pagi84 said:
I agree but Elden Ring is he opposite of this and everyone loved it because it was a challenge etc. Why can't you have the same in a football game?
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Very simple... FromSoftware works as one and functions by its own merits and design philosophy...so that means, along decades they perfected their products and now they are surpassing themselves on another level. Actually they perfected with consistency those mechanics and their brand so much from Demon Souls to date, that a new gaming genre was born, plus the last one Elden Ring could be considered one of the best if not the best game of all time. Also, today they released their biggest expansion for Elden Ring called "Shadow of the Erdtree" and got already a 95 score on Metacritic (no expansion got that score ever).

Regarding EAFC, eFootball, UFL, and other Las Vegas casinos, those have a different audience in mind who is not against shaddy stuff pushed in their games, they instead embraced that and there is demand for those live services (look at all those "influencers" that are promoting trash every day, and the GenZ who consumes that like it's something ordinary). Football games made by those companies are doomed to rott and then eventually some pasionate indie studio to take things more seriously... Conclusion: we are in the minority, from a business perspective everybody wants to make "easy money" and nobody else wants to produce a boring "souls like" slow paced and methodical football game with punishing mechanics and cutscenes, in them. That could be so awful...
 
Pagi84 said:
I agree but Elden Ring is he opposite of this and everyone loved it because it was a challenge etc. Why can't you have the same in a football game?
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I agree but as @etb10dmk also says
etb10dmk said:
Very simple... FromSoftware works as one and functions by its own merits and design philosophy...so that means, along decades they perfected their products and now they are surpassing themselves on another level. Actually they perfected with consistency those mechanics and their brand so much from Demon Souls to date, that a new gaming genre was born, plus the last one Elden Ring could be considered one of the best if not the best game of all time. Also, today they released their biggest expansion for Elden Ring called "Shadow of the Erdtree" and got already a 95 score on Metacritic (no expansion got that score ever).

Regarding EAFC, eFootball, UFL, and other Las Vegas casinos, those have a different audience in mind who is not against shaddy stuff pushed in their games, they instead embraced that and there is demand for those live services (look at all those "influencers" that are promoting trash every day, and the GenZ who consumes that like it's something ordinary). Football games made by those companies are doomed to rott and then eventually some pasionate indie studio to take things more seriously... Conclusion: we are in the minority, from a business perspective everybody wants to make "easy money" and nobody else wants to produce a boring "souls like" slow paced and methodical football game with punishing mechanics and cutscenes, in them. That could be so awful...
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The tricky part is that Elen Ring and soulsborne games are a niche and that they are transparent that these are hard games and there's enough people that know exactly what they're getting themselves into with these games and the devs have formed a brand identity around this. The accept their position in the games industry and are the exception and not the rule when it comes to commercial industry standard.

EA & Konami know that their target demographic is mostly of casuals and gen-z who have short attention spans and aren't going to commit to a tough, realistic football game. The devs know they risk slashing their appeal to as many customers as possible which is gigantic compared to FromSoft's clientele.
 
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Classic PES has something that most games lack. The indescribable quality that gives you the dopamine hit when you play a good through ball, score a free kick or finish your goal chance right in the corner. Modern games deal these things out as a given. E.g I’ve played FC 24 and if you’re through on goal (which happens a lot) 90% of the time you know it’s going in the back of the net.
With Classic PES these things aren’t a given and I personally think that when your vision plays out on PES as you want it to it’s so rewarding and satisfying.
Anyway, that’s what I think!
 
PES4eva said:
Classic PES has something that most games lack. The indescribable quality that gives you the dopamine hit when you play a good through ball, score a free kick or finish your goal chance right in the corner. Modern games deal these things out as a given. E.g I’ve played FC 24 and if you’re through on goal (which happens a lot) 90% of the time you know it’s going in the back of the net.
With Classic PES these things aren’t a given and I personally think that when your vision plays out on PES as you want it to it’s so rewarding and satisfying.
Anyway, that’s what I think!
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Yes, the rewarding feeling these classic games give you is lost upon in these modern games, you do get it occasionally depending on your settings/mods etc but out of the box, the steep learning curve and earning that goal, especially great goals is euphoric.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
Yes, the rewarding feeling these classic games give you is lost upon in these modern games, you do get it occasionally depending on your settings/mods etc but out of the box, the steep learning curve and earning that goal, especially great goals is euphoric.
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Regarding the last part, just watched again one of your PES 6 FIFA 98 tournament goals compilation. Rewinding the video, those highlights are feeling so explosive, authentic and euphoric on their own in comparison to those newer versions. Also those let's plays generates so much hype to play PES 5/6 every time. Besides the overall PES 6 magic, feels like I'm watching those Top 10 on TV, that's how great you did the editing and the commentary. That's true art... :APPLAUD:


 
Juventino32 said:
Don't get me wrong, PES 6 is great, it's just that 2008 (PS2) improved it where needed.

PES 5 is a different beast though. I'd not say better or worse than 2008, just different.
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I agree, if you combine PES5/WE9/LE player and ball physics with PES2008 (PS2) Artificial Intelligence and game options, you would probably have the definitive PS2/PC 2000's era football game.
 
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PES4eva said:
I couldn’t imagine playing PES on a keyboard. It would feel very foreign to me
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I played with both keyboard and gamepad for decades now. Nothing feels foreign to me at this point.

Speaking of keyboard, PES had 3rd person player camera. It would have been amazing if you could control the 3rd person camera with mouse. Now that would be a great way to have 360 degree motion and full manual on keyboard+mouse and also add new dimension to the gameplay.
 
Great answers! I can't say it better than all of you, who have very accurately pointed out the things that make these games special. I haven't read everything word for word and I apologize if someone has already mentioned it, but aside from the good gameplay, everything outside of the gameplay made the game special overall.

Even the online mode itself— to this day, we do not have a PES game that offers as wide and rich an online mode as PES 6! It was so advanced for its time that it's mind-blowing.

Just listing some things I remember, I'm sure I've forgotten most of them:

PES 6 had groups, group matches, and group chat ;
Block lists, friend lists with different chat options, messages, and direct visits to a room with a friend;
Servers and Lobbys, chat in lobbies;
Rooms with up to 4 people with the option to play together with your local friend against people online, which means you could play up to 8 people in a room (4 vs 4), with the option to chat in the rooms and in the game as well;
Daily events such as Fast Cups and Leagues challenges, divisions for 1 vs 1 and group leaderboards, private messages, and more.

I'm sure I've forgotten many things, but we will never have such a good online mode again.
 
Sami 1999 said:
I played with both keyboard and gamepad for decades now. Nothing feels foreign to me at this point.

Speaking of keyboard, PES had 3rd person player camera. It would have been amazing if you could control the 3rd person camera with mouse. Now that would be a great way to have 360 degree motion and full manual on keyboard+mouse and also add new dimension to the gameplay.
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I think we’re on the opposite sides of the spectrum as to what is a fun way to play a football game, because that sounds horrendous lol
 
༺Ƥeຮ༻ said:
Great answers! I can't say it better than all of you, who have very accurately pointed out the things that make these games special. I haven't read everything word for word and I apologize if someone has already mentioned it, but aside from the good gameplay, everything outside of the gameplay made the game special overall.

Even the online mode itself— to this day, we do not have a PES game that offers as wide and rich an online mode as PES 6! It was so advanced for its time that it's mind-blowing.

Just listing some things I remember, I'm sure I've forgotten most of them:

PES 6 had groups, group matches, and group chat ;
Block lists, friend lists with different chat options, messages, and direct visits to a room with a friend;
Servers and Lobbys, chat in lobbies;
Rooms with up to 4 people with the option to play together with your local friend against people online, which means you could play up to 8 people in a room (4 vs 4), with the option to chat in the rooms and in the game as well;
Daily events such as Fast Cups and Leagues challenges, divisions for 1 vs 1 and group leaderboards, private messages, and more.

I'm sure I've forgotten many things, but we will never have such a good online mode again.
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I remember engaging in all that online stuff, I was also in groups and we played often. Great times, the greatest. I know there is still a very active PES6 PC online server. Dunno why the EvoWeb gang don't have a group there and are still playing this masterpiece tbh!
 
Pagi84 said:
I remember engaging in all that online stuff, I was also in groups and we played often. Great times, the greatest. I know there is still a very active PES6 PC online server. Dunno why the EvoWeb gang don't have a group there and are still playing this masterpiece tbh!
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Yes, PES6Stars is great, the guys there are very talented and did a great job, they rebuilt almost everything from ground zero, and they were able to resume the groups as well. I think their server even works better than Konami's original one.
 
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