Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)
Diving has been really badly receieved so far on every forum Ive seen.
Here, imo, is a fantastic post someone left on our blog :
I like diving,but NOT this way...pressing buttons to dive?!?!Thats stupid, because Gattuso NEVER dives and you could do it with him if it is by pressing buttons.
Why Konami dont take a look at FM and see that this is a PERSONALITY trait of the players.They should make it auto,so if you dribble with someone that has a dive trait(or a "star" ability in this case) you have a good chance that he will dive(you may not want it,but thats comes from the skills of the dribller).
When you dribble with Gattuso, Adriano or other player with Does not Dives "star"(if they took that traits from FM,which would be perfect) he wont dive even if you press 6 buttons.Please contact Konami if you can and fix that, thats not good news the way it is now.
Class point :applause:
Hey Adam.
I felt I needed to express my views on this.
The biggest "problem" with PES at the moment, as far as I am concerned, is the balance of "Game control vs. Player control".
What I mean by this is, there are two parts to PES. One that is influenced by you, and one that is influenced by the player you are controlling and his stats.
In my personal opinion, currently this balance is much too shifted in the direction of "Game control".
There are some obvious examples.
An obvious example is penalties. Take a person who has never played the game and pit him against a very experienced PES player. Tell him the controls and how to use them, and he will instantly be able to compete with a seasoned player.
This is a clear case where the game (and by extension, the stats (Shot Acc an example) of the player taking the penalty) has almost 100% control. You can't choose to take a safe penalty by not aiming just by the post, or taking it slightly weaker to maintain acuracy and control over the foot movement. You press a button and the player does the rest by himself.
Another example is passing. You can decide an analog direction (8 directions, and PLZ don't involve Analog Passing, since that is only a sad excuse for more passing control by KONAMI, and also at most only 16-way which is not analog by any system measurements), but once you aim and press the button, you have no more control whatsoever. The player completely on his own decided how hard to strike it. Even though you the player might have a very clear idea of what you want the player to attempt, the player might decide on his own (since you cannot hold the button longer for more power or similar) to strike a crawling pass that will easily be intercepted by a player you clearly anticipated would be able to intercept the ball (the reason you wanted to strike the pass harder in the first place). Sure, more power means the teammate might have more troubles receiving it, but I would rather the pass made it to its destination period, and if the teammate is unmarked and in plenty of space, so what if he cannot trap it instantaneously?
It is things like these that bug me the most about PES. Sure, there are stats involved to help differenciate players from eachother, and to make each player you are controlling feel different. But ultimately, you are the one playing the game.
Currently, it more feels like you are making "friendly encouragements" to players. They still take it upon themselves to at times:
- Slide tackle even though you have not pressed the slide tackle button (why is it there if not for you to control it yourself?)
- Make control shots from 30 yards on their own (If I do it myself by using R2, why did that player broadside it from 30m rather than use his laces? Does the game think it knows what I wanted more than I do? I can assure you I didn't want Steven Gerrard to broadside it from 35 meters, I wanted to him to put a hole in the net).
- Clear the ball from your own penaly area (even though you saw a superb way to pass your way out to a player in space).
The same goes for certain tricks in the game. The elastico is hardcoded in the game. But in real-life, I can do it. Why can't I give myself that trick when I create myself? It would be completely realistic seeing how I can do it in real-life.
It is a real delicate line, choosing how much control to give the player. Currently, you have basically no control whatsoever over penalties. But, if KONAMI introduced an analog system (ISS64/98/2000 on the 64), then it would be way too easy to place the ball in the top corner every time (even if Ronaldo is striking the penalty).
But again, currently, it is my firm belief that KONAMI need to be alot more generous in giving us control over gameplay aspects.
If anything, atleast give me the ability to actually tell PES2008 how hard I want a pass to be (by introducing a power meter). They can still use the players stats to vary the accuracy and power that is available for the pass, for each player in the game. But atleast I can clearly COMMUNICATE my intention to the game, so that there is more depth and possibilities.
An example; Currently passing "skills" in PES6 is mostly determined by the "Pass Speed stat". Poor players are just a nightmare to pass with, not because they are much more inaccurate than Ronaldinho, but because their passes usually take an eternity to get to their destination, even if you might have wanted a fast pass (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qJX0Nb7VuE).
But, wait a minute, that same player has a shot power of 90? So what KONAMI are saying is that, that every time I want to pass with him, his leg muscles are suddenly shrunk so that he can only muster slow passes?
There are so many inconsistencies like these in PES. If I wanted to, I SHOULD technically be able to pass with that player as hard as he can shoot. Right? It is the same muscles he is using. You just shoot a really hard ground-shot towards a teammate. But instead, KONAMI limit us by setting up rules and limitations as to what we can and cannot do. Normally I wouldn't mind, but in the case of pass speeds, it is a completely pointless and even worse, not realism-based limitation (It is also my firm belief that "Pass Speed", "Longpass speed" and "Shot Power" should all be condensed into a stat called "Hardest Possible Ballhit power" or such. Think about it, there absolutely no logical reasons not to do that, all the ball hits are done using the same foot, although with mostly different foof shapes. And then you differenciate pass effectiveness using a Manual Pass bar and the "Pass Acc" stat, so that more power on the pass bar makes for less accurate passes. That is the 100% LOGICAL REALISTIC way of doing it, and all it needs is KONAMI introducing a Pass power bar (there is one for Ballhits on goals and High ballhits to teammates, so why be so inconsistent and illogical?.
What should instead determine your pass speeds, like in real-life, is that your teammate should have an easy time trapping and receiving the ball, and the Pass ACCURACY (NOT speed) of the player you are passing with.
Again, If the player is off-balance or in a weird position, his abilities should be limited to get power into a pass. But I should ALWAYS be able to COMMUNICATE my intentions to the player, so that he can then fail to execute them properly... because of said limitations in balance or stance or such (just like I in real-life can attempt to put a shot in the top corner, but then fail due to my shoddy Shot Acc stat
. This whole dimension of actually being able to tell the game specifically what you want to do, is sadly missing completely from PES due to not using Analog sticks properly, not giving us choises of desired power where there are in real-life, etc etc.
Finally, to compare the Gattuso example, what if PES5 had had a "Brutal tackle" option. Now Imagine someone at KONAMI saying that certain players, like maybe Zidane (hint hint...) shouldn't have this possibility, because they never do it in real-life. After the World Cup, that decision would have been completely nullified, and that would have shown that what seemed like good reasoning was infact completely wrong thinking.
And linking it to stars or , for the player uncontrollable, factors etc is also completley wrong. Like I said, when I am playing, I want to be in control of Zidane ("I am Zidane") and thus he shouldn't do anything that isn't input by me using the controller. If Zidane had a star that told him to headbutt a player without my consent, then I might aswell be the coach screaming "What the hell is wrong with you Zizou!!" from the bench. And last I checked, PES was about playing football, and not giving general gameplay tips to AI players.
Let me know your views on this.
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