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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

kouroux said:
It's just a video game so at some point we'll able to master the diving timing and imagine what playing PES online will be.I mean wtf are Konami trying to do.
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I'm not against it if it's disabled for Online games. Against CPU, it's not important but can be charming for little cheaters.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

tuta77 said:
I'm not against it if it's disabled for Online games. Against CPU, it's not important but can be charming for little cheaters.
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I think there is enough cheating already in the CPU so adding diving won't make it easier UNLESS they really find a way to sort all these matters out.However at the moment I'm just cautious and wanna find out more about the game.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

SO WHEN WILL OUT PES 2008 FOR PS3.. FINALI ???
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

NickSCFC said:
I didn't get that animation, sorry.
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Konami will crash EA whit that next - gen for PC . this yhare !
FIFA havent next-gen for PC !! Kapish ??
That animacion is just littel funy for u all , fan on PES
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Diving has been really badly receieved so far on every forum Ive seen.

Here, imo, is a fantastic post someone left on our blog :

I like diving,but NOT this way...pressing buttons to dive?!?!Thats stupid, because Gattuso NEVER dives and you could do it with him if it is by pressing buttons.

Why Konami dont take a look at FM and see that this is a PERSONALITY trait of the players.They should make it auto,so if you dribble with someone that has a dive trait(or a "star" ability in this case) you have a good chance that he will dive(you may not want it,but thats comes from the skills of the dribller).

When you dribble with Gattuso, Adriano or other player with Does not Dives "star"(if they took that traits from FM,which would be perfect) he wont dive even if you press 6 buttons.Please contact Konami if you can and fix that, thats not good news the way it is now.


Class point :applause:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

and what's next, a button-combo to "jump"?

Some things need to be automated otherwise the gameplay will be one big mistake.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Finally Fenerbahce licensed. I'm extremely happy.
I can have Roberto Carlos licensed now
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

The_Knight said:
I don't think this is true. The Blu-ray PS3 version is relatively unpatchable. The PS3 version MUST HAVE something special about it. And this HAS to be graphics.
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Oh my god, not even now where it is confirmed that there won´t be a difference between all versions, some people still don´t get it or believe it. Wake up. Did you ever see any game which was made for 3 platforms at once where the developers gave one system an edge over the others?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Adriano don't dive? BAHAHAH! He must have a special dive star called "Spastic Diver". :lol:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

stop the madness. i vote for diving. another step to make PES feel real. you will se, that you "succes" 1 or 2 times on ten attempts so you will do that few times pef game. maybe just like last chance in injury time....

and if you are plaing against someone who slides and slides so why not to help referre to see, what a butcher is your oponnent :-)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

I think the main gripe i can see with the diving, is the computer using it often, and always winning a foul/penalty at crucial moments.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

i would actually like to see diving as it makes it more realistic, online you would find it annoying just like its annoying when you watch it in real life.

it all depends how well it works on the game, i very much doubt you will be able to do it easily (obviously some may 'master' it but if they cant do it everytime then i dont mind). what i do think they should do though is not allow this to happen in the penalty area so it wont be a major way to score, then they can see how well the public receive it, if its crap then they can take it out next game but if people think it works well then they can test it in the pen area for the next game
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

With PES, there will be, as always, a bias in favour of the cpu team; ie. 99% of the time the cpu dives, it's a penalty for the cpu team and you get carded, 99% of the time you dive, you get booked for diving.

Also, the game will decide to make your guys dive even though you didn't press the relevant buttons, and you will get carded.
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Exactly.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

As long as there's not certain points where pressing dive would always result in a freekick/peno then it seems ok.

However Pro Evo has always had sweet spots, and if people are able to dive and get a peno unless you back off and leave them clean through 1 on 1 then I shit my bed in rage.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

pbchillin said:
I think the main gripe i can see with the diving, is the computer using it often, and always winning a foul/penalty at crucial moments.
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i'm worried about this too but i'm sure seabass n co aren't stupid and they have game testers for a reason.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

I'm worried people would rather concentrate more on diving throughout the game rather than playing football.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

I look forward to having tactical battles with the computer.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

I don't think we can comment on the diving issue untill we've seen it in play and how it's implimented.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

"I like diving,but NOT this way...pressing buttons to dive?!?!Thats stupid, because Gattuso NEVER dives and you could do it with him if it is by pressing buttons.

Why Konami dont take a look at FM and see that this is a PERSONALITY trait of the players.They should make it auto,so if you dribble with someone that has a dive trait(or a "star" ability in this case) you have a good chance that he will dive(you may not want it,but thats comes from the skills of the dribller).

When you dribble with Gattuso, Adriano or other player with Does not Dives "star"(if they took that traits from FM,which would be perfect) he wont dive even if you press 6 buttons.Please contact Konami if you can and fix that, thats not good news the way it is now."

Totally agree with this!! I'm all for introducing a "dive" to the WE/PES series, but please Konami, if every player can dive....:(
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Adonis said:
Diving has been really badly receieved so far on every forum Ive seen.

Here, imo, is a fantastic post someone left on our blog :

I like diving,but NOT this way...pressing buttons to dive?!?!Thats stupid, because Gattuso NEVER dives and you could do it with him if it is by pressing buttons.

Why Konami dont take a look at FM and see that this is a PERSONALITY trait of the players.They should make it auto,so if you dribble with someone that has a dive trait(or a "star" ability in this case) you have a good chance that he will dive(you may not want it,but thats comes from the skills of the dribller).

When you dribble with Gattuso, Adriano or other player with Does not Dives "star"(if they took that traits from FM,which would be perfect) he wont dive even if you press 6 buttons.Please contact Konami if you can and fix that, thats not good news the way it is now.


Class point :applause:
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Hey Adam. :)

I felt I needed to express my views on this.

The biggest "problem" with PES at the moment, as far as I am concerned, is the balance of "Game control vs. Player control".

What I mean by this is, there are two parts to PES. One that is influenced by you, and one that is influenced by the player you are controlling and his stats.

In my personal opinion, currently this balance is much too shifted in the direction of "Game control".


There are some obvious examples.

An obvious example is penalties. Take a person who has never played the game and pit him against a very experienced PES player. Tell him the controls and how to use them, and he will instantly be able to compete with a seasoned player.

This is a clear case where the game (and by extension, the stats (Shot Acc an example) of the player taking the penalty) has almost 100% control. You can't choose to take a safe penalty by not aiming just by the post, or taking it slightly weaker to maintain acuracy and control over the foot movement. You press a button and the player does the rest by himself.

Another example is passing. You can decide an analog direction (8 directions, and PLZ don't involve Analog Passing, since that is only a sad excuse for more passing control by KONAMI, and also at most only 16-way which is not analog by any system measurements), but once you aim and press the button, you have no more control whatsoever. The player completely on his own decided how hard to strike it. Even though you the player might have a very clear idea of what you want the player to attempt, the player might decide on his own (since you cannot hold the button longer for more power or similar) to strike a crawling pass that will easily be intercepted by a player you clearly anticipated would be able to intercept the ball (the reason you wanted to strike the pass harder in the first place). Sure, more power means the teammate might have more troubles receiving it, but I would rather the pass made it to its destination period, and if the teammate is unmarked and in plenty of space, so what if he cannot trap it instantaneously?


It is things like these that bug me the most about PES. Sure, there are stats involved to help differenciate players from eachother, and to make each player you are controlling feel different. But ultimately, you are the one playing the game.

Currently, it more feels like you are making "friendly encouragements" to players. They still take it upon themselves to at times:

- Slide tackle even though you have not pressed the slide tackle button (why is it there if not for you to control it yourself?)

- Make control shots from 30 yards on their own (If I do it myself by using R2, why did that player broadside it from 30m rather than use his laces? Does the game think it knows what I wanted more than I do? I can assure you I didn't want Steven Gerrard to broadside it from 35 meters, I wanted to him to put a hole in the net).

- Clear the ball from your own penaly area (even though you saw a superb way to pass your way out to a player in space).



The same goes for certain tricks in the game. The elastico is hardcoded in the game. But in real-life, I can do it. Why can't I give myself that trick when I create myself? It would be completely realistic seeing how I can do it in real-life.


It is a real delicate line, choosing how much control to give the player. Currently, you have basically no control whatsoever over penalties. But, if KONAMI introduced an analog system (ISS64/98/2000 on the 64), then it would be way too easy to place the ball in the top corner every time (even if Ronaldo is striking the penalty).


But again, currently, it is my firm belief that KONAMI need to be alot more generous in giving us control over gameplay aspects.

If anything, atleast give me the ability to actually tell PES2008 how hard I want a pass to be (by introducing a power meter). They can still use the players stats to vary the accuracy and power that is available for the pass, for each player in the game. But atleast I can clearly COMMUNICATE my intention to the game, so that there is more depth and possibilities.


An example; Currently passing "skills" in PES6 is mostly determined by the "Pass Speed stat". Poor players are just a nightmare to pass with, not because they are much more inaccurate than Ronaldinho, but because their passes usually take an eternity to get to their destination, even if you might have wanted a fast pass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qJX0Nb7VuE).

But, wait a minute, that same player has a shot power of 90? So what KONAMI are saying is that, that every time I want to pass with him, his leg muscles are suddenly shrunk so that he can only muster slow passes?

There are so many inconsistencies like these in PES. If I wanted to, I SHOULD technically be able to pass with that player as hard as he can shoot. Right? It is the same muscles he is using. You just shoot a really hard ground-shot towards a teammate. But instead, KONAMI limit us by setting up rules and limitations as to what we can and cannot do. Normally I wouldn't mind, but in the case of pass speeds, it is a completely pointless and even worse, not realism-based limitation (It is also my firm belief that "Pass Speed", "Longpass speed" and "Shot Power" should all be condensed into a stat called "Hardest Possible Ballhit power" or such. Think about it, there absolutely no logical reasons not to do that, all the ball hits are done using the same foot, although with mostly different foof shapes. And then you differenciate pass effectiveness using a Manual Pass bar and the "Pass Acc" stat, so that more power on the pass bar makes for less accurate passes. That is the 100% LOGICAL REALISTIC way of doing it, and all it needs is KONAMI introducing a Pass power bar (there is one for Ballhits on goals and High ballhits to teammates, so why be so inconsistent and illogical?.

What should instead determine your pass speeds, like in real-life, is that your teammate should have an easy time trapping and receiving the ball, and the Pass ACCURACY (NOT speed) of the player you are passing with.


Again, If the player is off-balance or in a weird position, his abilities should be limited to get power into a pass. But I should ALWAYS be able to COMMUNICATE my intentions to the player, so that he can then fail to execute them properly... because of said limitations in balance or stance or such (just like I in real-life can attempt to put a shot in the top corner, but then fail due to my shoddy Shot Acc stat ;)). This whole dimension of actually being able to tell the game specifically what you want to do, is sadly missing completely from PES due to not using Analog sticks properly, not giving us choises of desired power where there are in real-life, etc etc.




Finally, to compare the Gattuso example, what if PES5 had had a "Brutal tackle" option. Now Imagine someone at KONAMI saying that certain players, like maybe Zidane (hint hint...) shouldn't have this possibility, because they never do it in real-life. After the World Cup, that decision would have been completely nullified, and that would have shown that what seemed like good reasoning was infact completely wrong thinking.

And linking it to stars or , for the player uncontrollable, factors etc is also completley wrong. Like I said, when I am playing, I want to be in control of Zidane ("I am Zidane") and thus he shouldn't do anything that isn't input by me using the controller. If Zidane had a star that told him to headbutt a player without my consent, then I might aswell be the coach screaming "What the hell is wrong with you Zizou!!" from the bench. And last I checked, PES was about playing football, and not giving general gameplay tips to AI players.


Let me know your views on this. :)
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

For all we know, maybe the diving possibility is just for some players (like Ronnie's move or maybe a special star) and won't affect the game the way we're thinking. So everything stays the same except for certain players. I like this idea.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Anyone remember diving in This is Football? I used to like that game until I discovered Pro Evo. Anyway, the point I was gonna make is, well, they had diving in that game too and it was easy to do. I used to play it bare and I used to try to con the referee with that diving thing but I remember only once did I ever get a decision like that my way. I got penalised on all the other occasions. That obviously became frustrating then. So I just never did it when I was taking the game seriously. It'll probably be the same with PES. I think it could be a good feature.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

no diffirence bitween pc/xbox360/ps3 version
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

Maybe they could make diving with buttons, but at the same time use stats for each player, if the player has low "diving" stat, then the chances of you getting away with it are very slim, and then whether you want to dive or not, it's your choice.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

tobi said:
I'm worried about this too but I'm sure Seabass n co aren't stupid and they have game testers for a reason.
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No offense to you Tobi.

But i wouldn't rely on Konami game testers some of the Pitches are so obviously unplayable in earlier versions and they still made it into the game.

Not to mention the Weather bug
Computer never signing players bug

just a few obvious examples of no testing.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

can any one know any e _ mail i can send to Konami what i want about PES 2008 ?!
plz if any one know
thanx :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - News/Discussions Official Thread (Last Update 07/21/07)

I don't see the logic of implementing diving since this things is OFFICIALLY forbidden from football grounds.A lot of footballers do use it these last few years which is a real SHAME AND INSULT TO FOOTBALL.Football has lost a lot of its charisma and credibility with all those professionnal divers out there .No matter how well it will be implemented in the game ,I just don't like the idea of putting so wrong with football into the game.
It'd have been much better to focus on improving refereers.
 
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