WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

My guess is that it might be the end of super-cancel.

Time will tell. If there really are no more scripts and cpu cheats, it will be a revelation.

Wishful thinking

 

[charlievolano]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Look your MP mate...

I though you had sent me some nice pictures of naked women to make up for the lack of juicy infos......

Np mates, just i found rather idiosyncratic to have a forum and a podcast about information that can't be released.

 

[hazza10]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

could anyone tell me where i could find that picture of the magazine cover with the boots that look like the nike air legends

 

[drekkard]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I completely agree with winston and all the "cynics" with the game. I am a programmer myself, and every installment in this series is getting worse.

When we say that everything is scripted we are stating the absolute lack of influence you have in the controls. In pes6, you almost can't decide where to shoot or pass, or even where to run!!!!

Of course, that simplicity has gained a lot of fans to the game, because it's easy to play, just what Fifa was 10 years ago. The friends I used to beat regularly in previous editions now can just win because the CPU decides to. And that's because...

The CPU is altering things even in multiplayer! I tend to be the best player amongst my friends, and I always end up a match with 15 shots to goal or so. And guess what? Scores are always tied no matter what I do. My shots go to the post, inches wide or ballooning stupidly with no reason, only because this game has been designed and PROGRAMMED to balance things and produce drama at the end of any match. I consistenly win mos of the time, but it's annoying and of course, when you play a balanced game, it's the cpu who decides who wins. If every player shoots 7 times and you can't aim or influence the shoot descisively... how can I be satisfied if I win? It won't be my skill, but the cpu's choice!

That's why sometimes my defenders are ALWAYS 3 meters away of the oposition. Can I control that in the game? No. Can I do something when the coin tossed by the game chooses to benefit my opponent? No. And the horrible sensation that there's no skill involved in great plays, only luck. That if you can do great plays, because with the mechanical controls of the game, your creativity is near to zero. I loved the freedom of football kingdom, and even now, I can be more creative with PES4 (someone remember the times where we were allowed to chip or lob the keeper?)

And now, in PES 2008, they announce features that, to me, are the same as Fifa. Konami is doing EXACTLY the same as Fifa. And many magazines have tried the game and said the game plays exactyly the same, and it doesn't surprise me. They already sell millions. They just lie. Thomasgoal, you're a good member of the forum, I appreciate a lot your comments, but... There's NOTHING that makes us think they have worked the engine substantially, not even changed a single critical element of the game.

The only thing we've heard is the game is the same call of duty as the last edition, but now german soldiers sweat in battle (and probably you won't be able to choose where to shoot and give that a name like Fear-of-battle-matic).

That said, and not to sound too negative, I have found playing 4 vs 4 in pes with my friends really impressive, that's because the amount of things decided by the cpu are then limited (not eluded anyway...).

Cheers to all.

- Freedom of movement
- Freedom of aiming
- Free physics
- Free editing

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Exactly how I feel and put a lot more elegantly than I can manage (also agree on the 4v4 thing - the less control the CPU has the better the game becomes). Thank you drekkard.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Succinctly put.

 

[kouroux]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

To be on topic, I'll speak about Football KIngdom compared to PES.


To be honest, that game looks awesome.
Sure, the goalkeepers seem very bad at positioning, and the AI defences seem very disorganized.

But when you see those analog-aim passes, those manual-curled sweeping longpasses, I don't care. That is the system PES should have. You can see a little cursor a short distance from the player in possession on the ground.

Also, the players can run analog, which looks awesome aswell. It is just a huge difference going from watching a video of Football kingdom, to seeing PES players turn 45 degrees all the time. The change is so abrupt and crude it's almost ridiculous.


And Football Kingdom was released in 2004.

I just wish KONAMI would get their heads out and give us the freedom to pass in any direction, run in any direction, and have any power to passes, longpasses etc. You now, like in REAL LIFE... I don't see the point of giving us more detailed animations, when the players still move like they are on train tracks.

And someone mentioned Football Kingdom was more arcade than PES. TBH, what is more arcade. Forcing users to play with the Digital Pad (PES), or making great use of the analog sticks, and letting you aim shots etc all on your own (Football Kingdom). Which sounds the most challenging in terms of the actual controls and gameplay? I'll agree that the shooting seems a bit off with lots of shots at full power going in.

If something doesn't happen with PES soon, I am jumping ship. I'll gladly switch to FIFA just to get an ounce more analog running or analog aiming, whether or not the gameplay is worse.

KONAMI just doesn't seem to realize that with analog aiming, passing etc, the game will become about 1000x deeper. You will have so many variations and finer detail that you are likely to never see the same goal twice. While in PES, use the "Play Again" feature in Training and watch the player do the exact same thing over and over and over again.

All they need to do is to implement Analog support. X360 has it, PS3 has it, Wii has it. Etc etc. Why not? Are they going to stick with their core gameplay features for all eternity? THey do realize people will get tired eventually right? Tired of having no control over how much power a player puts into a pass. Tired of feeling like you sometimes have no control over anything.

KONAMI, please, just do it already. You are making a football game where you can't decide how hard you want to strike a pass. Read that sentence again and tell me why you wouldn't implement it. You are making a football game where you can't strike an accurate longpass without relying on auto-aim.


Just do it and watch your game become 1000x deeper and more varied. Just use that analog-stick ffs. Who the heck will miss the gamepad when you can pass wherever, run wherever.

I just wish KONAMI would get a representative or two on these forums. Right now it's like trying to communicate with a wall. PESFan has some suggestion system, and that's about it.

I totally agree with you ,I recently discovered this Kingdom of Football ,well the long passing looks really superb and I agree about everything concerning the lack of control of the game.However if all the changes you mentionned were to miraculously happen ,how players will interfere with it.I mean if you're really god at it ,won't you have crap players passing like real masters ??I'm just asking and I'm not assuming 100% total control is bad thing but however will include players stats ( specially the passing stats)
Thank you

 

[Fatality]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

A question to the forum, given all realms of possibility, by this i mean what reasonably could happen, what improvements would make the master league significantly better? Im not asking in a sarcastic way i genuinely want to know what you guys think? A better transfer system? More cups? More teams? Proper international breaks? If you could pinpoint 1 or 2 things what would they be?

 

[gomito#10]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

A question to the forum, given all realms of possibility, by this i mean what reasonably could happen, what improvements would make the master league significantly better? Im not asking in a sarcastic way i genuinely want to know what you guys think? A better transfer system? More cups? More teams? Proper international breaks? If you could pinpoint 1 or 2 things what would they be?

2-4 divisions for germany, england, france, spain, italy, argentina, brazil, netherlands, portugal, scotland, etc...
ability to move between teams as a manager
players bought in $$$ or pounds not PES points
champions league group with home and away in the group stage
uefa cup
league cup between all 4 divisions
training actually means something
pshychological warfare against other managers
managers editable so people can change the fake names to rafa, sir alex, etc...
proper transfer windows
just incorporate football manager into PES

 

[Nick Cave]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

A delete button and start again, with a copy of Fifa and SWOS as reference... As always I'd just like it to be a Simulation of real life, If Konami have not got the licences put in the option to edit anyway you see fit!

Sim on, Sim off....

 

[kouroux]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

They may do what they did for the last J league game, having 20 teams in the ML.Maybe a lot more stats like goal ratio,assist ratio ,number of games played,something like team morale or chemistry.

 

[Punzz]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Reasons given when your transfers get rejected. I'm sick of offering all my money to buy a player and i just get denied without any reason. Why did i get rejected? Not enough money? The player doesn't want to leave? Is my club not good enough, what?

Realistic player development. How can alan smith become the greatest ML player in the game when hes at the age of 25/26. Theres realistic improvement such as consistency and awareness as a player ages. Lampard for example has come on leaps and bounds from his West Ham days (still requires 50 deflections to score though ). However, the current system is extremely unrealistic as virtually all of your players will become world class superstars (based on stats) just because you win games.

I think just by playing Football Manager you get an idea of how well a career mode can be done.

Gomito has mentioned the rest really.

 

[kobashi]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

They may do what they did for the last J league game, having 20 teams in the ML.Maybe a lot more stats like goal ratio,assist ratio ,number of games played,something like team morale or chemistry.

Me and my brother were discussing that earlier. as Europe has never seen this ML setup Konami could just be adding that for PES2008. it is better yes but not good enough, it is cool you can actually setup the real french, italian league etc but with no 2nd division and a poor european setup it gets boring quick.

Playing in Europe on WE/PES is just annoying. playing 2 teams from your league in the group stages is just silly!!

 

[winston]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

2-4 divisions for germany, england, france, spain, italy, argentina, brazil, netherlands, portugal, scotland, etc...
ability to move between teams as a manager
players bought in $$$ or pounds not PES points
champions league group with home and away in the group stage
uefa cup
league cup between all 4 divisions
training actually means something
pshychological warfare against other managers
managers editable so people can change the fake names to rafa, sir alex, etc...
proper transfer windows
just incorporate football manager into PES

Stop it, you've got me drooling.

And your mention of Football Manager sparks a memory of a few years ago of some sort of supposed tie-up between the makers of that game and the makers of PES. The excitement it engendered at the time was tremendous. I remember thinking at the time "I'll believe it when I see it". But I really didn't expect to find we'd reached 2007 and the ML had remained fundamentally unchanged.

 

[winston]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I completely agree with winston and all the "cynics" with the game. I am a programmer myself, and every installment in this series is getting worse.

When we say that everything is scripted we are stating the absolute lack of influence you have in the controls. In pes6, you almost can't decide where to shoot or pass, or even where to run!!!!

Of course, that simplicity has gained a lot of fans to the game, because it's easy to play, just what Fifa was 10 years ago. The friends I used to beat regularly in previous editions now can just win because the CPU decides to. And that's because...

The CPU is altering things even in multiplayer! I tend to be the best player amongst my friends, and I always end up a match with 15 shots to goal or so. And guess what? Scores are always tied no matter what I do. My shots go to the post, inches wide or ballooning stupidly with no reason, only because this game has been designed and PROGRAMMED to balance things and produce drama at the end of any match. I consistenly win mos of the time, but it's annoying and of course, when you play a balanced game, it's the cpu who decides who wins. If every player shoots 7 times and you can't aim or influence the shoot descisively... how can I be satisfied if I win? It won't be my skill, but the cpu's choice!

That's why sometimes my defenders are ALWAYS 3 meters away of the oposition. Can I control that in the game? No. Can I do something when the coin tossed by the game chooses to benefit my opponent? No. And the horrible sensation that there's no skill involved in great plays, only luck. That if you can do great plays, because with the mechanical controls of the game, your creativity is near to zero. I loved the freedom of football kingdom, and even now, I can be more creative with PES4 (someone remember the times where we were allowed to chip or lob the keeper?)

And now, in PES 2008, they announce features that, to me, are the same as Fifa. Konami is doing EXACTLY the same as Fifa. And many magazines have tried the game and said the game plays exactyly the same, and it doesn't surprise me. They already sell millions. They just lie. Thomasgoal, you're a good member of the forum, I appreciate a lot your comments, but... There's NOTHING that makes us think they have worked the engine substantially, not even changed a single critical element of the game.

The only thing we've heard is the game is the same call of duty as the last edition, but now german soldiers sweat in battle (and probably you won't be able to choose where to shoot and give that a name like Fear-of-battle-matic).

That said, and not to sound too negative, I have found playing 4 vs 4 in pes with my friends really impressive, that's because the amount of things decided by the cpu are then limited (not eluded anyway...).

Cheers to all.

- Freedom of movement
- Freedom of aiming
- Free physics
- Free editing

Jesus, drekkard, reading your posts isn't half depressing....because they are always so disappointingly accurate.

 

[kouroux]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Me and my brother were discussing that earlier. as Europe has never seen this ML setup Konami could just be adding that for PES2008. it is better yes but not good enough, it is cool you can actually setup the real french, italian league etc but with no 2nd division and a poor european setup it gets boring quick.

Playing in Europe on WE/PES is just annoying. playing 2 teams from your league in the group stages is just silly!!

Let's just hope that there is enough blank space to store some teams in order to create several other leagues (I doubt Konami would even think about it).I'm so so sick of waiting

 

[The_Knight]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

All good points. I'm all for more freedom and realism...etc.

But how do you move 360 degrees with a keyboard? The keyboard offers only 8 directions. Same goes to manual passing.

As to shooting... well do you want to choose where to shoot? Top left, top right, bottom left...etc? This would be a bit arcadey when you come to think about it.

Remember back in Fifa, when you hit the direction buttons right before shooting to choose the corner you want to shoot at? How arcadey did this feel? Well you know what would be better, to preserve the current aiming system PLUS add the possibility of choosing a corner, which would be possible or not according to the player's angle, run, body and stats.

But that's too much to hope for form Konami. The game is already top-selling. We can only hope EA implements these changes into FIFA, so their sales could rise and KONAMI would start to go back to work.

 

[Kenny M]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

does anyone think the ps3 version will use the sixaxis for throw ins?

tilt left and right for direction and jerk forward to throw.

 

[J79]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

what are peoples expectations for online?
1 v 1 via 2 consoles?
2 v 2 via 2 consoles?
or 2 v 2 via 4 consoles?
i'm really hoping for the latter but not holding my breath

 

[Kenny M]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

what are peoples expectations for online?
1 v 1 via 2 consoles?
2 v 2 via 2 consoles?
or 2 v 2 via 4 consoles?
i'm really hoping for the latter but not holding my breath

the best option for a lagless match.

wouldn't 4 consoles have more lag than 2?

 

[Hello]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

2-4 divisions for germany, england, france, spain, italy, argentina, brazil, netherlands, portugal, scotland, etc...
ability to move between teams as a manager
players bought in $$$ or pounds not PES points
champions league group with home and away in the group stage
uefa cup
league cup between all 4 divisions
training actually means something
pshychological warfare against other managers
managers editable so people can change the fake names to rafa, sir alex, etc...
proper transfer windows
just incorporate football manager into PES

Please someone send this to Konami

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

My guess is that it might be the end of super-cancel.

Time will tell. If there really are no more scripts and cpu cheats, it will be a revelation.

I'm not too sure about that. As long as there is any sort of computer-aided running (the player automatically running after the ball if he is chasing a pass that strayed a bit) SUper-cancel will be there. And obviously, as long as they don't have 360 movement, there needs to be computer-aided runs, which means SUperCancel will be there, definitely. Besides, it does more than just give you freedom of running (in 8 directions) but it also cancels shots, and allows for some shot-feints that give unique movements.

I completely agree with winston and all the "cynics" with the game. I am a programmer myself, and every installment in this series is getting worse.

When we say that everything is scripted we are stating the absolute lack of influence you have in the controls. In pes6, you almost can't decide where to shoot or pass, or even where to run!!!!

Of course, that simplicity has gained a lot of fans to the game, because it's easy to play, just what Fifa was 10 years ago. The friends I used to beat regularly in previous editions now can just win because the CPU decides to. And that's because...

The CPU is altering things even in multiplayer! I tend to be the best player amongst my friends, and I always end up a match with 15 shots to goal or so. And guess what? Scores are always tied no matter what I do. My shots go to the post, inches wide or ballooning stupidly with no reason, only because this game has been designed and PROGRAMMED to balance things and produce drama at the end of any match. I consistenly win mos of the time, but it's annoying and of course, when you play a balanced game, it's the cpu who decides who wins. If every player shoots 7 times and you can't aim or influence the shoot descisively... how can I be satisfied if I win? It won't be my skill, but the cpu's choice!

That's why sometimes my defenders are ALWAYS 3 meters away of the oposition. Can I control that in the game? No. Can I do something when the coin tossed by the game chooses to benefit my opponent? No. And the horrible sensation that there's no skill involved in great plays, only luck. That if you can do great plays, because with the mechanical controls of the game, your creativity is near to zero. I loved the freedom of football kingdom, and even now, I can be more creative with PES4 (someone remember the times where we were allowed to chip or lob the keeper?)

And now, in PES 2008, they announce features that, to me, are the same as Fifa. Konami is doing EXACTLY the same as Fifa. And many magazines have tried the game and said the game plays exactyly the same, and it doesn't surprise me. They already sell millions. They just lie. Thomasgoal, you're a good member of the forum, I appreciate a lot your comments, but... There's NOTHING that makes us think they have worked the engine substantially, not even changed a single critical element of the game.

The only thing we've heard is the game is the same call of duty as the last edition, but now german soldiers sweat in battle (and probably you won't be able to choose where to shoot and give that a name like Fear-of-battle-matic).

That said, and not to sound too negative, I have found playing 4 vs 4 in pes with my friends really impressive, that's because the amount of things decided by the cpu are then limited (not eluded anyway...).

Cheers to all.

- Freedom of movement
- Freedom of aiming
- Free physics
- Free editing

"I tend to be the best player amongst my friends, and I always end up a match with 15 shots to goal or so. And guess what? Scores are always tied no matter what I do. My shots go to the post, inches wide or ballooning stupidly with no reason, only because this game has been designed and PROGRAMMED to balance things and produce drama at the end of any match."

Exactly. The game doesn't let you aim for yourself. It gives you 8-way digital aiming, just so that there is no way for you to aim properly. The game can then interpret and alter this for itself so that the shots always miss. It doesn't matter how skilled you become, or how much you play it, because there isn't much skill involved in presing "Left" or "right" and then the shot button.
If you press "Left" and then the shot button, the game can deside for itself if the ball will hit the post, or go outside. Heck, the game isn't cheating, you only pressed LEFT, right? You didn't say where on the left you wanted to aim, right? Because you can't.

And player stats would still affect Analog aimed shots, so there is no way it would become mechanical. But with analog aim, you could actually become skilled at aiming with the stick, and some noob couldn't just play the game 5 mins and then aim better than you. It takes one second to master a digital system (you press a button/direction, done). It takes alot longer to learn how far to tilt an analog stick, or exactly what direction to aim in any situation for the ball to fly towards the top corner (again, if you have a crap player, the ball will fly nowhere near where you wanted it to go).

I totally agree with you ,I recently discovered this Kingdom of Football ,well the long passing looks really superb and I agree about everything concerning the lack of control of the game.However if all the changes you mentionned were to miraculously happen ,how players will interfere with it.I mean if you're really god at it ,won't you have crap players passing like real masters ??I'm just asking and I'm not assuming 100% total control is bad thing but however will include players stats ( specially the passing stats)
Thank you

Hehe, this question is essential so no problem.

Basically, it is very simple.

Currently, you have a very low resolution aiming system (low resolution, 8 directions only).

Currently, any direction you input, even with the analog stick, will become filtered down to 8 directions (PES6 only has 8-way controls). After that, the game will further filter the input by letting player stats make shots etc stray even more from where you are aiming.
So you basically have player stats affecting an aim that wasn't even yours to begin with (because even if you aim the analog stick just to the top corner, the game will only understand basic directions like "left", "right" etc.

The way it would work with analog support (where you have something like 64, 128 or even 256 directions) is this:

You can aim anywhere you want (for example, if you are capable of handleing the analog stick, you will be able to aim for the top corner, or just by the post). But as soon as the player takes the shot, his shooting skills will make the resulting shots stray from your aim more or less.

This is exactly like real-life: if you are shooting from 20 meters, you CAN aim FOR the top corner (in other words, you CAN INTEND for the resulting shot to hit there, by simply deciding in your head to aim there). But if you are bad at shooting, the shot will not hit there. It might hit 2dm to the left, it might stray 2m outside the post, or go abit over). That is what will happen for poorly skilled players.


So, what this basically means is simply that, since currently PES filters analog stick iputs first to 8 directions, and then again since the shot accuracy etc is affected by player stats, there is almost nothing left of your input/desired aim. The player stats affects a extremely crudely filtered version of where you wanted to aim.

With analog support, you will bypass this, Completely Unrealistic, 8-way filter stage, and instead the player stats affect ONLY your aim. This also means that with very skilled players and controlled situations, you will be able to occasionally pick out the top corners.

What this means ALSO, is that you will need to Train to use the analog stick. You can no longer just press a direction and let the game do the aiming. If you have a very accurate player, and you accidentally aim your stick outside the post, that is where the ball will hit, outside. If you miss one of those shots, you can ONLY blame yourself (currently in PES6, it's never YOU who miss a shot, it is the game that misses).

A change to analog aiming will thus put more focus on your skills, while also keeping player stats very important, so that you can't expect a defender like Nesta to aim perfectly just because YOU can aim perfectly with the analog stick. Nesta's shots will stray alot from where you are aiming because of his poor shot stats.


Hope it makes sense.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Fantastic post Allstar, really fantastic. This is what pretty much anyone who understands gaming and football wants and with the hardware available now, anything less than this in PES2008 in my view will be a complete let down.

 

[J79]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

the best option for a lagless match.

wouldn't 4 consoles have more lag than 2?

yeah i'd imagine 4 consoles would potentially have more lag but i think they could pull it off.
what did the ps2 version of pes6 have?

 

[Lami]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Currently, you have a very low resolution aiming system (low resolution, 8 directions only).

Currently, any direction you input, even with the analog stick, will become filtered down to 8 directions (PES6 only has 8-way controls). After that, the game will further filter the input by letting player stats make shots etc stray even more from where you are aiming.
So you basically have player stats affecting an aim that wasn't even yours to begin with (because even if you aim the analog stick just to the top corner, the game will only understand basic directions like "left", "right" etc.

The way it would work with analog support (where you have something like 64, 128 or even 256 directions) is this:

You can aim anywhere you want (for example, if you are capable of handleing the analog stick, you will be able to aim for the top corner, or just by the post). But as soon as the player takes the shot, his shooting skills will make the resulting shots stray from your aim more or less.

This is exactly like real-life: if you are shooting from 20 meters, you CAN aim FOR the top corner (in other words, you CAN INTEND for the resulting shot to hit there, by simply deciding in your head to aim there). But if you are bad at shooting, the shot will not hit there. It might hit 2dm to the left, it might stray 2m outside the post, or go abit over). That is what will happen for poorly skilled players.


So, what this basically means is simply that, since currently PES filters analog stick iputs first to 8 directions, and then again since the shot accuracy etc is affected by player stats, there is almost nothing left of your input/desired aim. The player stats affects a extremely crudely filtered version of where you wanted to aim.

With analog support, you will bypass this, Completely Unrealistic, 8-way filter stage, and instead the player stats affect ONLY your aim. This also means that with very skilled players and controlled situations, you will be able to occasionally pick out the top corners.

What this means ALSO, is that you will need to Train to use the analog stick. You can no longer just press a direction and let the game do the aiming. If you have a very accurate player, and you accidentally aim your stick outside the post, that is where the ball will hit, outside. If you miss one of those shots, you can ONLY blame yourself (currently in PES6, it's never YOU who miss a shot, it is the game that misses).

A change to analog aiming will thus put more focus on your skills, while also keeping player stats very important, so that you can't expect a defender like Nesta to aim perfectly just because YOU can aim perfectly with the analog stick. Nesta's shots will stray alot from where you are aiming because of his poor shot stats.


Hope it makes sense.

:applause:

 

[jord@n]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

All this analysis is correct but you have to admit ....... PES6 is still fun ........ .

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

All this analysis is correct but you have to admit ....... PES6 is still fun ........ .

I didn't like PES6 for several reasons.

As for PES in general, I notice myself playing it less and less. I have just gotten bored of the lack of control that leads to shallow and repetetive gameplay. :/

I would rather play a ragdoll game where you push a guy down some stairs. Atleast that is endless fun since every fall will be different.

 

[Beatts]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I didn't like PES6 for several reasons.

As for PES in general, I notice myself playing it less and less. I have just gotten bored of the lack of control that leads to shallow and repetetive gameplay. :/

I would rather play a ragdoll game where you push a guy down some stairs. Atleast that is endless fun since every fall will be different.

Same with me mate altho I find myself going back to PES3, it just felt far less scripted.

 

[hazza10]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

pes 6 has just depressed me. i no everything that is gonna happen next , its just so predictable after a while. i think that pro evos time on the ps2 is up and konami have to buck up there ideas because they have a console like a ps3 and they better not let us down when they are now able to do so much more to this game thanks to the ps3. lets just hope they have realised this

 

[MIAmaker]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I completely agree with winston and all the "cynics" with the game. I am a programmer myself, and every installment in this series is getting worse.

When we say that everything is scripted we are stating the absolute lack of influence you have in the controls. In pes6, you almost can't decide where to shoot or pass, or even where to run!!!!

Of course, that simplicity has gained a lot of fans to the game, because it's easy to play, just what Fifa was 10 years ago. The friends I used to beat regularly in previous editions now can just win because the CPU decides to. And that's because...

The CPU is altering things even in multiplayer! I tend to be the best player amongst my friends, and I always end up a match with 15 shots to goal or so. And guess what? Scores are always tied no matter what I do. My shots go to the post, inches wide or ballooning stupidly with no reason, only because this game has been designed and PROGRAMMED to balance things and produce drama at the end of any match. I consistenly win mos of the time, but it's annoying and of course, when you play a balanced game, it's the cpu who decides who wins. If every player shoots 7 times and you can't aim or influence the shoot descisively... how can I be satisfied if I win? It won't be my skill, but the cpu's choice!

That's why sometimes my defenders are ALWAYS 3 meters away of the oposition. Can I control that in the game? No. Can I do something when the coin tossed by the game chooses to benefit my opponent? No. And the horrible sensation that there's no skill involved in great plays, only luck. That if you can do great plays, because with the mechanical controls of the game, your creativity is near to zero. I loved the freedom of football kingdom, and even now, I can be more creative with PES4 (someone remember the times where we were allowed to chip or lob the keeper?)

And now, in PES 2008, they announce features that, to me, are the same as Fifa. Konami is doing EXACTLY the same as Fifa. And many magazines have tried the game and said the game plays exactyly the same, and it doesn't surprise me. They already sell millions. They just lie. Thomasgoal, you're a good member of the forum, I appreciate a lot your comments, but... There's NOTHING that makes us think they have worked the engine substantially, not even changed a single critical element of the game.

The only thing we've heard is the game is the same call of duty as the last edition, but now german soldiers sweat in battle (and probably you won't be able to choose where to shoot and give that a name like Fear-of-battle-matic).

That said, and not to sound too negative, I have found playing 4 vs 4 in pes with my friends really impressive, that's because the amount of things decided by the cpu are then limited (not eluded anyway...).

Cheers to all.

- Freedom of movement
- Freedom of aiming
- Free physics
- Free editing

:applause::applause::applause::applause: