WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

[tobi]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I think PES6 is an excellent game and is even better when you're playing against a friend. A lot of the problems sound like they have been sorted for PES 2008 but the game needs to be slower and none of the previews have mentioned whether it is or not.

 

[Han]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

...:|

The more you try to explain your position in an intelligent way, the less people want to listen, and the more stupid posts get drawn in (from people I respected, as well). It's unbelievable how you can go through something and explain yourself in as much detail as possible, and get the same reaction as if you'd said "PES IS SHIT LOL". You get so little respect on here if you want to see the game improve, and you can list its faults.

Thank you Adonis, you're the only PES fan who's actually read, understood and discussed what I said (even though you mostly disagree), rather than dismiss it as a pointless moan. Thank God it's the people like you who run PES news sites.

Jack, there is nothing wrong with my mind
The point is that you are hmmm... not so positive
Just read your posts back over time and I think you will agree with me that you are quite often negative. I define 'negative' as a post where negative considerations outweight positive ones.
What you wrote about PES 6 PS2 is not positive and I really agree with you on some points. Coincidently I play PES 6 PS 2 the last weeks, because my Xbox 360 is away for repair. I can compare both versions well because of that.
I too found that passing is scripted and even more is scripted too. PS 2 is current generation and you notice that very well if you play next gen PES all the time and then suddenly switch to the PS2 version.
My problem with your post is that you critisize a curren gen game, while we discuss the next gen PES 2008 overhere. No wonder that you are mostly negative about PES 6 PS2. A lot of problems you have, you wouldn't have with PES 6 360 version, as they improved the gameplay in that version, compared with the PS2 version. Why didn't you play the 360 version? Okay, the options are missing on that one, but gameplaywise the problems you noticed on the PS 2 are not so much at the PES 6 360 version.

 

[gurjisfit]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Jack, there is nothing wrong with my mind
The point is that you are hmmm... not so positive
Just read your posts back over time and I think you will agree with me that you are quite often negative. I define 'negative' as a post where negative considerations outweight positive ones.
What you wrote about PES 6 PS2 is not positive and I really agree with you on some points. Coincidently I play PES 6 PS 2 the last weeks, because my Xbox 360 is away for repair. I can compare both versions well because of that.
I too found that passing is scripted and even more is scripted too. PS 2 is current generation and you notice that very well if you play next gen PES all the time and then suddenly switch to the PS2 version.
My problem with your post is that you critisize a curren gen game, while we discuss the next gen PES 2008 overhere. No wonder that you are mostly negative about PES 6 PS2. A lot of problems you have, you wouldn't have with PES 6 360 version, as they improved the gameplay in that version, compared with the PS2 version. Why didn't you play the 360 version? Okay, the options are missing on that one, but gameplaywise the problems you noticed on the PS 2 are not so much at the PES 6 360 version.

Agree with you re the 360 ps2 difference. PLayed 360 version from october till about april - then started with ps2 version playing on the ps3. Enjoyed the less scripted passing on 360 and generally more "evolved" game, probably due to the slightly greater number of animations - problem was that the shooting WAS fundamentally broken. I often played with Barca, the 360 veriosn being the first version where you could get close to replicating their rythmic way of playing (watched them play in the nou camp live - saw the messi goal from halfway! - and although it looks fast on tv, it's quite slow in real life). Trying to do the same on the ps2 version isn't quite as easy, the game feeling less complex and subtle. I'm always puzzled by those who say it was just "crap" - in options yes, in gameplay, no (my opinion).

When going back to the ps2 version, the passing felt crude and less "trustworthy", in the way that liverpool's passing (and i'm a die-hard fan) is less trustworthy when compared to arsenal's. But the game was faster, more dynamic and the shooting more explosive and therefore a breath of fresh air in some ways after the 360 version.

The 360 version was in development for 6 months - pes 2008 will have apparently been in dev for 18 months by the time of release. 6 plus the 12 months between pes 6 next gen and pes 2008 next gen equals 18 months, which suggests an evolution of the 360 version. If they can make pes 2008 3 times better than the 360 version, i think most people will be satisfied.

 

[Stan]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Jack, my post wasn't directed at you...i know you mean well and although i don't always agree with them, i like your postings.

The person it was directed at has already reacted. The funny thing is that i made a kind of a parody in my post and hereacted precisely the way i emulated him: if you don't agree with him you are a moron, you lack intelligence...

This is the second year in a row he does this, last year he ended banned and he clearly is too intelligent to learn from past experiences...or how too much intelligence sometimes can be a burden...Fortunately morons like the rest of us aren't burdened by things like that...

Sorry to be off-topic, but it isn't funny anymore and i clearly am not the only one who thinks about it that way...

 

[charlievolano]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I think PES6 is an excellent game and is even better when you're playing against a friend. A lot of the problems sound like they have been sorted for PES 2008 but the game needs to be slower and none of the previews have mentioned whether it is or not.

Didn't they mention that they game is faster then PES6??

I am pretty sure it was mentioned in some articles.

Which would be pretty annoying although i play on line with small teams so for me that speed is perfect, but when some morons insist on playing 2vs2 with the usual barca chelsea the game does feel like pinball to me.

 

[NickSCFC]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Anyone noticed we've seen no screens with long sleeves yet?
Cristiano seriously needs his shirt with long sleeves and untucked. I think he's the only player in the world I can remember who always wears a kit like this.

 

[Puschkin]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Allright, for those who can't be arsed to read the last 3 pages of the big boys let's summarize.

- PES6 sucks big time, Seabass is a stupid idiot and on top of that lazy...
- All the people who have negative comments are the best players of all their friends, but if they loose which happens more and more, it's not because they are louzy at PES (no remeber: among their friends, they are by far the best player...please keep that in mind).No they lose because the AI is shit and that lazy shit of a seabass is to blame for all this misery and the injured ego's.
- Everybody who tend to disagree is a stupid fanboy who just has to shut up. Everybody who has the nerve to suggest that maybe they are moaning just a litle bit has to shut up because this is a forum and forums are made to give opinions.
- And then there is the "argument of arguments": I'm a programmer myself...oh dear, oh dear...who would have the nerve to argue with these halfgods...Well i have a suggestion: why don't you make a new football game which surely will be much better than the one that that litle shit Seabass has been maling (and that you buy year in year out...).

Im' just a stupid old idiot fanboy and so who cares what i think, but you guys sound like spoiled brats to me...Darfur anyone????? No go away: PES6 is pants....

Don't want to offend anybody but sometimes i go into turbo mode...


Ieathalfgodsforsupperandafterwardsvomitseriuslybecauseiveeatentoomuch.

Respect.

 

[tobi]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Didn't they mention that they game is faster then PES6??

I am pretty sure it was mentioned in some articles.

Which would be pretty annoying although i play on line with small teams so for me that speed is perfect, but when some morons insist on playing 2vs2 with the usual barca chelsea the game does feel like pinball to me.

I seriously hope its turns out to be false, the game being faster is totally unnecessary.

another thing i hate is when people insist on going barca or chelsea, don't get me wrong I play as barca but there are other quality teams on the game that people should play as. people should play as roma or valencia, people should try and mix up their tactics instead of doing the same stuff over and over again.

 

[Kenny M]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Anyone noticed we've seen no screens with long sleeves yet?
Cristiano seriously needs his shirt with long sleeves and untucked. I think he's the only player in the world I can remember who always wears a kit like this.

it this is a problem for you, then it's not difficult to change it in edit mode.

 

[NickSCFC]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

It's just an authenticity thing for me. No it doesn't really bother me. It bothers me that this is something so easy for Konami to put into the game that will take more fanboys away from FIFA.

 

[Thomazzi]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

does anybody know if there´s a worldwide release for pes2008? i mean, what´s with winning eleven 11? maybe it´s coming a few weeks earlier?
does somebody of you got some informations about it?

 

[Kenny M]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

It's just an authenticity thing for me. No it doesn't really bother me. It bothers me that this is something so easy for Konami to put into the game that will take more fanboys away from FIFA.

i don't even notice it tbh.

also, it could be just some small things they will optimize during the time leading up to the game turning gold.

 

[NickSCFC]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

True, they never show the licenced balls or boots til just before relase.

This was this time last year...

This was released last August I think...

 

[pepper63]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

I think it is important to realise that it is a computer game so it will be scripted.There are not 2 squads of"little men" inside the computer as homer would think.So balls will deflect to cpu players because it's programmed that way.You do want a challenge in game don't you?I can't enjoy games beating my 2yr old son and shouting 'easy easy" all the time.Remember in the corperate world the money's in the problem not the cure..So if konami make the"perfect game" where will they make there money in the future?Not saying that there developers are ever capable of delivering the"perfect game".It will get better little by little,but who knows?They may just shut us up with the best game to date.I would like to address the point of "Fanboyicism' Yes that's correct..There's been racism,gayicism...and now Fanboyicsm.The latter 2 are not real words but they maybe after this post.I am a proud Fanboy,and i,lami,and djdoc, strongly protest against the evil of Fanboyicism.Thank you.NUMBER 1 FANBOY. ME.

 

[hazza10]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Anyone noticed we've seen no screens with long sleeves yet?
Cristiano seriously needs his shirt with long sleeves and untucked. I think he's the only player in the world I can remember who always wears a kit like this.

ive bin watching ronaldo in the asia tour and he wears short sleeves, untucked top,small shorts, white wrist band on both wrists, long socks to his knee, long white tape and black nike vapours

 

[luke909]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Can you change your sig - its fucking annoying.

 

[pepper63]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

ive been watching cristiano ronaldo in the asia tour and he wears black nike vapours,long white tape, two white rist bands on each wrist, untucked shirt and short sleeved top.

What gel does he wear in his quiff?:roll:

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

ive been watching cristiano ronaldo in the asia tour and he wears black nike vapours,long white tape, two white rist bands on each wrist, untucked shirt and short sleeved top.

I think you could be gay.

 

[pepper63]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Can you change your sig - its fucking annoying.

No.[-X

 

[Lami]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

This is Offtopic:

Iraq won the Asian cup. Congrats for the Iraqis surely for that brave performance. They deserve it. I hope this brings the Iraqi people some happiness rather than the daily sadness.

 

[Seraphs21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

First of all, I haven't actualy thought of that before, but if they do give us analog movement, they could also give us the option to use the D-pad for tactical changes, thus freeing up a whole button (L2) for more tricks, modifiers and such.

Secondly, I think you are wrong about the shooting, and for some reasons.

Firstly, you don't always want to aim in the 6 directions you mention, and that are currently in PES. For example, if you have just struck a corner, and the ball lands on your players feet in the box, odds are, you are going to hae the goalkeeper in the middle of the goal, and a player by the post. In that situation, I would prefer to be able to aim in-between them. You can't do that at all, and that means that you are likely to hit the goalkeeper or the player by the post, unless you are "fortunate" enough for the player to completely mishit the ball and send it between them. And let me tell you, you know something is wrong when you are hopeing for a mishit...

I know it might seem like a small thing, but it is that level of detail (occasionally being able to strike it bjust between 2 players on purpose) that is required to make the game more genuine, and to give it variation enough to never be boring.


Secondly, even the 9 directions you mention (using the powerbar to vary the height) is flawed, since by definition, it is almost always impossible to give groundshots a really hard power. The "normal" byproduct of shooting a soccer ball harder is often that the ball gets more height, but the way it is implemented in PES means it is more like the norm than a "trend". And in real-life, it is more the stance and footshape that determines height, and that you have no control over at all in PES.

Sure, you can sort of get realistic results with a bit of luck and such, but it is all too inconsistent and wobbly-wobbly for me. I want a solid system that gives me full control over where I WANT the ball to go.

As for Football Kingdom, I agree that it is flawed in alot of ways. But, when I (and many others) say it looks grea,t we are most likely referring to the beautiful longpasses (that are aimed, and curled completely by the player, not AI) and the passsing which (thanks to the aim being up to the player and not AI) is always slightly off and never perfect in power or accuracy. Also, the 360 player movement means that the game looks awesome (in low-resolutions you could mistake it for a real soccergame, whereas PES will always be immediately recognized by the clumky turning of players).


Not trying to be a jerk at all mate, my suger-coating generally dissapears a bit as the night progresses.

Ah yes actually I see what you mean, I just come back from footy, so about the directions for shooting, I dont really know how they can implement all this into a game with a controller at the moment, but maybe we could use the six axis, I mean, we got square for height, but if its just power then how do we adjust height, we cant let cpu/ai decide beased on player position, as people will argue its still not down the them, so what could we do, we have R2 for placement, so why not use the six axis, maybe tilt like up so foot is more flat and player leans forward so its lower, then back player back, shoots higher, then you ould turn the controller for curl, and then you could curl and tilt forward adding curl, dip, just something like that, but mybe that could be too much?

The directions can be better I suppose, even with the d-pad say something like this... up is post/nearpost aswell as down for the other side, straight is straight on, down middle, and then the diagnals, are inbetween, something like that, and then obviously you can do that with the analog stick but to a more degree of accuracy, but that alone is good for dpad. Because, I swear aiming up or down, or diagnal same way, does the same shot or type either wide or near post, not inbetween, well it is if ur lucky.

Thought id comment on this post, never read the rest, because I saw shooting a major flaw, in the 360 one anyway, the ps2 one is goo enough for last gen, maybe could do with the change of the directions thing.

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

This stadium look like Emirates stadium but why Konami make few mistakes like blue seats or this double adboard in the circle ?
Licence problem again ? like the theatro blanco in PES6 360 or no Stanford Bridge on PES6 ?
maybe we can edit the seat colors in edit mode ?

 

[charlievolano]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Could be azteca as someone already mentioned. I have been to Maracana, does not look like it.

 

[embraceuk1]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Its not Emirites too many tiers and the adverts would be in english

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

like Noted says it's maybe Da Luz

look like almost Emirates...

 

[mattster12]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Just been having a skim through the last few pages, and I have to say some of you guys seriously over exaggerate. I mean c'mon if the game was really as bad as some of you make out then no one would be even playing it lol. But in recent years pes/we has just grown in popularity.

I'm not picking on you here JB but I saw on the last page you listed your problems so it's easier to reply to something thats structured like that. Now I disagree completely and here's why;

Spoiler

* The first thing I notice is that the passing doesn't feel right in a few ways - you can't choose how much power you want, and they're way too "automatic" overall. The normal passes are piss-weak, and too easy to intercept. And if I try a through-ball, there's no option apart from what direction you want. You can't weight it, so it can go straight to a defender or it can go out of play. I'm not saying every pass has to be perfect but, and here's the thing, I want to be the one who makes the mistakes. I don't like the fact that it's random whether you'll pull off an amazing pass or not - you just press and you either get a splitting pass or a woeful mistake. But neither is actually down to you.

To me the passing is great, the problem is alot people just don't use the options available. For instance manual passing has been in pes/we for ages. You can configure it so all you do is push the right analog stick and voila manual passing. It does take abit of practice, but you can choose how much power you want and it takes away that "automatic" feeling. There was a video on here ages ago with a guy playing only with manual passing. It was probably the best pes/we video I've ever seen and showed with some practice how free pes/we can be. I tried to find it but the link was dead if anybody has it please post it...this was the thread http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20783&highlight=manual+passing
Now regarding the through ball, again there are more options than just the press . You can do a short through ball by just pressing But you also have the option of doing a long through ball by holding down for longer. The same applies to the high through ball the longer you hold the more distance you get. Also with the high through ball you can weight it so it doesn't just run to far by keeping hold of
So JB I think this gives the player alot of options in the passing department.

* The next thing I notice is really weird, and I don't know if I can explain it very well. In certain situations, the CPU will make your player "trip" forwards for no reason (usually when the ball is high in the air). He's not knocked, he can even be standing perfectly still waiting for the ball to come down; but then he begins to fall in a certain direction, purely to move him out of the way (usually behind the CPU defender, leaving him with the ball and open space in-front of him). I thought it was coincidence the first time, but I saw it about ten times.

You can do this too, just hold super cancel and you can barge their player out the way. I agree with Adonis here I do it more to the cpu. It even happens in multiplayer, I was playing against a mate and he said the cpu was cheating for me lol.

* I also notice (and this is a relatively old one as well) that if you head out from a corner, it goes straight to the CPU. But if the CPU heads out from a corner, you can practically guarantee it's going to be a CPU player who gets the ball.

This is simply not true, again if it were no one would play the game would they. If I had a pound for every goal I've scored against the cpu where they've cleared the header to the edge of the area and one of my players smashes it in. Then when I'm defending a corner I turn on my counter attack strategy and it works well, the ball doesn't fall the the cpu all the time.

* Players don't move into good positions. I've got a wing-back who's come up to the sideline but refuses to go any further, even if there's enough space to fit a bus through. You run behind him, as if to say "move up", and he moves bloody backwards. I know you've got player arrows etc., but I've told the team to be attacking in the formation settings, so he should have some common sense.

Again I don't see this problem, but I use the + combo alot. So say for example my wing back has the ball I'll use + and he'll start bombing down the wing. Now I can press to give him the ball straight back or make a couple more passes infield then give it him back when he's in more space. Like I said I use + alot sometimes even to drag cpu players out of postion. They follow the runner but I ignore him and run into the space etc.... So if your wingback won't move up pass him the ball then get him to pass it back using the + combo and he'll bomb down the wing for ya

* The deflections are just... Unbelievable. This is a lot of my mates' biggest issue with the game (and it has been for years and years - this is what worries me with Konami). You make a tackle, the ball will rebound off the CPU player and perfectly to another CPU player, as if he'd passed it to him himself. You might as well not have tackled him. And I've noticed that the deflections when you're tackling for the ball are large, pitch-spanning ones that make their way to the CPU, but when it's you that's shooting and there's a deflection, it's a tiny weeny fucking deflection, a matter of feet, straight onto the boot of a defender to clear.

What Adonis said mate. I'm sorry I just don't see it.

* But the thing that really gets me the most, the thing that makes me fucking livid, is when the player just stands still. You pass to someone, with a CPU defender a few yards away, and instead of running to take the ball in his stride, he just stands completely still. No combination of buttons seems to be able to shift him, it's as if his feet are buried in the ground, and Mr. CPU player comes along and happily takes the ball. Over and over and over again.

Just hold while pressing in the direction of the ball. If your the defender do the same and you'll intercept the ball alot of the time.

Sorry for the long post and sorry if you already knew everything I've mentioned. It just sounds to me like you didn't Jack. I get the impression that when you play the game as soon as it starts your looking for problems instead of just trying to play some football. So as soon as the first deflection goes to the cpu you become irate. I don't really wanna get into the whole "cheating" argument. I mean the game plays the same in multiplayer to me albeit multiplayer is not as predictable as the cpu. So how the game can be cheating anybody in multiplayer I don't know. It just seems like every little thing that doesn't go your way is a cheat, then you over exaggerate to make your point.

But this is just my opinion, I respect yours, but I totally disagree

 

[Hello]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

It is not Da Luz or Emirates

 

[Lami]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Does anyone own a 360 PES6 here? There was an update recently. Is it me or did this update speed up PES6? Thought it should be fixing the online issue...

 

[Stringer Bell]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Nice to see you back mattster12.

 

[EPG]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

it looks like Da Luz or Emirates( very similar stadiums) but i dunno, those double adboards ruins it.

i hope its Da Luz