People refuse things that are right in front of their eyes. People are looking to just another cup2 final, with "average" teams. But they forget what this "average" benfica has done in the last couple of years, and how referees are inclined to do, even they try not to. Benfica´s problem wasn´t Sevilha. Their real problem started when they eliminated Juventus when it wasn´t meant to.
Uefa Europa League 2013/2014
- Thread starter gonalois
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bebo
Looking for a Manager
How could he reply to your question now? You must realize ppl go through a moment of distress and act abnormally until the emotions run clear. I've been embarrassed by my past reactions to a lost. I'm curious to know the logic behind this theory and from where it generates from.
I heard a disgruntled coach curse the league and never again to win in Europe. This sounds like the Basebol league in US. Babe Ruth had a curse A team ( Boston?) and it lasted over 50 years or more. Ppl generally believe this stuff religiously . The WC is so close and I'm sure Portugal will have more disappointments I know the US is their bogey team . I don't want this WC to be like WC '06 again w/ the obscenity btw members . Although it was very entertaining
airjoca
International
It's way easier to have great sportsmanship and objective opinions when one's club isn't involved isn't it?
How could he reply to your question now? You must realize ppl go through a moment of distress and act abnormally until the emotions run clear. I've been embarrassed by my past reactions to a lost. I'm curious to know the logic behind this theory and from where it generates from.
I heard a disgruntled coach curse the league and never again to win in Europe. This sounds like the Basebol league in US. Babe Ruth had a curse A team ( Boston?) and it lasted over 50 years or more. Ppl generally believe this stuff religiously . The WC is so close and I'm sure Portugal will have more disappointments I know the US is their bogey team . I don't want this WC to be like WC '06 again w/ the obscenity btw members . Although it was very entertaining
It was more of a rhetorical question, since I do believe I already know the answer to it. Obviously, not all referees are corrupt all the time, only whenever Portuguese teams are involved. Mainly Benfica, I guess, since Porto already grabbed plenty of European silverware not too far back.
Sorry, after all those years on these rather relaxed, mature boards I kinda adapted a very strict "no bullshit"-policy for myself for those rare times your usual internet-sewage leak occurs. I think it didn't take more than two posts from Steak Bake before I added him to the list, although I'll still occasionally stumble upon some of the ridiculous stuff about "true fans" or similar horseshit through other users' quoting (and thus ultimately "feeding") of said troll.
And since I very vividly remember similar accusations being made in the past, especially whenever Portuguese and Greek teams were involved, my tolerance for this kind of childish, paranoid behavior has decreased a lot. It's not exactly as if one could argue with a person like that. It has pretty much become a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point - the whole "UEFA screwed us"-schtick, I mean. When you go into any game with that kind of mindset, whenever you loose you've already built yourself a sweet little cushion of paranoid delusions and denial to fall back on. After all, there's almost always at least some refereeing decision's to question in a football match. It's natural for a human being to make mistakes. For some reason though a certain group of fans always tends to expect the exception of the rule for whenever their team is involved.
See what I mean?
Tiazinha Maria
Banned
- 24 October 2013
That explanation is 100% correct.
Mafia loves UEFA.
3 Penalty to mark, 2 fake shots from benfica players = pay much money in their pocket.
For World Cup you will see Spain Win Again, as usual pay it by Platini.
Soon or Later i will see the true and that real true is putting Platini on Jail.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
I'm glad Sevilla won, after all the comments for Benfica fans and Juve fans after the semi-final.
Benfica should have won: they only have to blame themselves, they had enough goal scoring opportunities. They didn't convert them, so they went into a penalty shoot out, which they lost.
Is Platini to blame ?
Is the ref to blame ?
Is UEFA to blame ?
Nope....
This reminds me of some Portugese reactions oafter their team lost twice against Greece in the Euro 2004 (and a third time afterwards).
Rakitic is a joy to watch...
Benfica should have won: they only have to blame themselves, they had enough goal scoring opportunities. They didn't convert them, so they went into a penalty shoot out, which they lost.
Is Platini to blame ?
Is the ref to blame ?
Is UEFA to blame ?
Nope....
This reminds me of some Portugese reactions oafter their team lost twice against Greece in the Euro 2004 (and a third time afterwards).
Rakitic is a joy to watch...
Tiazinha Maria
Banned
- 24 October 2013
And what about Spain win 2 europe and 1 world cup?
In Africa they won the world cup only with 1-0, at Ukraine the same, for UEFA Euro 2004, platini pay to portugal lose the final with grecce.
They talk about no to racism, more 2 referres to have vision, putting a electronic ball. All are bull#hit.
Next will be robots as referee's to do that.
In America on NFL, the referee watch the replay game before give us a foul or a Card.
NFL is correct UEFA is wrong.
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bebo
Looking for a Manager
@rentalkid I'm not sure if I'm more impress with your communication structure or your simplicity to explain your frustration. I understand you completely ... English is such a hard language every words are individually used lol
Edit: I have nothing against Benfica fans , nor their opinions . I love TSO to bits ... Mi hermano de otra madre!
Edit: I have nothing against Benfica fans , nor their opinions . I love TSO to bits ... Mi hermano de otra madre!
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Thanks bebo.
I'd also like to add that this is by no means making me lose any respect for Benfica or its more rational fans. Even the one's who were/are furious about Felix Brych's decision (I acknowledge there are situations which could have gone the other way, even though I personally would not have given a penalty either) have every right to be upset. A bit more composure would be nice sometimes, but that's more of an issue of different temperaments than anything else. Understandable for sure.
I'd also like to add that this is by no means making me lose any respect for Benfica or its more rational fans. Even the one's who were/are furious about Felix Brych's decision (I acknowledge there are situations which could have gone the other way, even though I personally would not have given a penalty either) have every right to be upset. A bit more composure would be nice sometimes, but that's more of an issue of different temperaments than anything else. Understandable for sure.
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
No, no and no. But that doesnt mean that serious questions should not be asked. Certainly someone needs to ask serious questions about the ref (and/or assistants) not spotting the keeper going forward during the shoot-out, it's basic stuff and it's not a debateable decision. This guy Breyarch is going to the World Cup as a ref, it's likely he'll ref a knockout match and there is a chance that match could go to a shoot-out, I hope this moron learns the rules before the 12th of June or failing that I hope the German FA/UEFA can send a better ref to Brazil.
As for Platini, well he was not in any way at fault last night, but he is a risible, hypocritical man of little substance and his vested self-interest seems to be clouding the way he can do his job.
airjoca
International
We are from southern Europe, we are more emotional about these sort of things...
The_Special_One
I like Unicorns
Oh myyy! This post nearly brought me to tears... Nah, it really DID bring to tears! ¡Me gustas muchisimo beboquintero hermano! ¡Igual que me gustan las tetas de Adriana Ugarte!
As for this whole ref/UEFA debate, the only question I'd like to be answered is: how on earth couldn't those 3, I mean, THREE (!!!) refs saw that Beto was coming off his line? How?? And that's it. The whole Platini conspiracy (even though I don't like him) is too much for me. Fact is, Benfica should have won this one. I don't want by any means to sound like an arrogant prick but I do believe Benfica is by far a better team than Sevilla. Surely this is nothing but a pure theoretical question as they came too little too short when they had the chance to top Sevilla and bring the cup home. They have no one to blame for apart themselves as players like Lima or Rodrigo didn't convert those blatant opportunities. Well, it's maybe the curse! In a "normal" day they would have scored.
Congrats to Sevilla and their increible fans!
I also enjoy being reasonable, and I thank for anyone else that does the same. You say that its always Benfica fans that complain... hmmm, maybe there´s actually a reason for it? These kind of things happen, and no, they don´t decide games alone, but they sure help.
Against Juve, the referee didn´t also help Benfica at all. Juve players screamed all the time to the ref and no card. Some players could make a ton of fouls with no card. Enzo Perez sent off for two consecutive fouls. First half, ball strikes the arm in the box of Juve, nothing awarded. 2nd half, ball strikes Enzo Perez arm, yellow card and dangerous free kick. during the benches confusion, Vucinic approaches and teases benfica´s players, then Markovic does it too, but no agressive moves, no threatening, nothing, Red card for both players. Quite a good job hein?
Did it decide the final result? No. But it sure screwed Benfica´s expectations for the final.
About this game, yeah some pretty hard stuff for the referee to decide. But after all, Sevilha could only stop Benfica attacks with fouls, one of them pretty hard, wich injured a player. So I guess Sevilha was the best... And come on, the hand on the box I guess it was hard to spot, but the foul on Gaitan? Really? The guy goes in with everything and never touches the ball, he is behind Gaitan, hits him in the arm, falls and hits him in the leg... Was it really need more intention to be called a penalty?
I can be reasonable, even when its hard. But I would like you guys to be reasonable too and accept that Benfica does have the right to feel sad about the referees decisions.
One more thing, I F#$%&%G loved the game and the way Sevilha played. It was a very even match, where both team could have scored, and both played the game in a very entusiastic way. In the end, both teams diserved the win in my opinion. That said, Congratulations to Sevilha and fans.
Against Juve, the referee didn´t also help Benfica at all. Juve players screamed all the time to the ref and no card. Some players could make a ton of fouls with no card. Enzo Perez sent off for two consecutive fouls. First half, ball strikes the arm in the box of Juve, nothing awarded. 2nd half, ball strikes Enzo Perez arm, yellow card and dangerous free kick. during the benches confusion, Vucinic approaches and teases benfica´s players, then Markovic does it too, but no agressive moves, no threatening, nothing, Red card for both players. Quite a good job hein?
Did it decide the final result? No. But it sure screwed Benfica´s expectations for the final.
About this game, yeah some pretty hard stuff for the referee to decide. But after all, Sevilha could only stop Benfica attacks with fouls, one of them pretty hard, wich injured a player. So I guess Sevilha was the best... And come on, the hand on the box I guess it was hard to spot, but the foul on Gaitan? Really? The guy goes in with everything and never touches the ball, he is behind Gaitan, hits him in the arm, falls and hits him in the leg... Was it really need more intention to be called a penalty?
I can be reasonable, even when its hard. But I would like you guys to be reasonable too and accept that Benfica does have the right to feel sad about the referees decisions.
One more thing, I F#$%&%G loved the game and the way Sevilha played. It was a very even match, where both team could have scored, and both played the game in a very entusiastic way. In the end, both teams diserved the win in my opinion. That said, Congratulations to Sevilha and fans.
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Completely agree, Brych did a great job with leading this match. If you want penalties for any of that "fouls" you'd have three to six penalties in every single game.
And for the shootout: This isn't all about the Beto movement. The second and third penalty were taken so blatantly bad, that they deserved to be stopped.
Don't blame it on someone else, Benfica had many chances (19-9 shots said the German commentator) and didn't manage to score one goal, this is neither Brych's nor Beto's foul. It was a great game starting in half two, but in the end Benfica wasn't (obviously) good enough. You should accept that.
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airjoca
International
So, just because a penalty is taken badly your opinion is screw the rules?
Rules are rules, it's not about "deserving" anything.
andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Nice to see all the German users defending the German ref. I don't blame UEFA or Platini, I’m not going for a conspiracy theory when there's no evidence or even a reasonable suspicion on that. But the ref is a completely different story.
And don't come with that BS that does weren't penalties because there will be 3 in every game. A foul is a foul. Period. Did Fazio or Moreno hit the Ball? No. Did they hit the Player? Yes. Did the player's progress was stopped? Yes. Was in the Box? Yes. What more that you need to see that as a penalty?
This was by far the worst referring I can remember in the European final. The Moreno foul was 3 yards on front of the 5th official. Beto coming of the line so obvious was in front of 3(!) refs.
And don't come with that BS that does weren't penalties because there will be 3 in every game. A foul is a foul. Period. Did Fazio or Moreno hit the Ball? No. Did they hit the Player? Yes. Did the player's progress was stopped? Yes. Was in the Box? Yes. What more that you need to see that as a penalty?
This was by far the worst referring I can remember in the European final. The Moreno foul was 3 yards on front of the 5th official. Beto coming of the line so obvious was in front of 3(!) refs.
I couldn't care less about the nationality of the ref. I'd say the exact same thing, if he'd been from a different country, Germany or I don't win or loose anything with my statement. If he had been bad I'd clearly say that, but he wasn't. There may have been contact in one or two situation, but never enough for a real penalty.
airjoca
International
The hand (or arm) on the ball was not a penalty?
andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Not enough? 5:14 clearly hit the left leg of Gaitán. 6:55 clearly hits the right leg of Lima (http://www.tvgolo.com/match-showfull-1400087197---89 Extended Highlights)
Guess that isn't enough in your book.
Ah, scrolling.
Well, at 5:14: No, definitely not. Especially not if he dives so theatrically. And at 6:55 he slips before he is (slightly) touched. These are never penalties.
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andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Third video. Named Extended Highlights.
andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Well you have a strich view on fouls then. Bring back 80's football then. Fouls only above the knee
airjoca
International
One thing I do know is they should change the rules so that only players that see a straight red should miss the final of these sort of competitions.
Teams playing a final should be as close to 100% strength as possible
Teams playing a final should be as close to 100% strength as possible
andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Can't agree with you. A different rule would meant that players could make tackles on the semi-finals knowing that they wouldn't miss the final (execpt for straight red). Plus would allowed for plenty of unfair plays. The rule is correct as it is.
Well, you could alter this idea a bit and say that only a sending-off would result in a suspension for the final. So straight Reds as well as a second Yellow. That way the players would still have to refrain from committing "little" fouls, since two of those could well result in a sending-off. Add to that referees urged to watch out for this kind of behavior in particular and you've got yourself a fair alternative, I believe.
It's just such a shame when a quality player misses a final because of a dumb foul or something similar because he had collected one too many Yellows in earlier rounds. Not to forget that it happens ever so often that cards are awarded unjustly. Some referees are especially quick when it comes to drawing Yellows.
Xabi Alonso against Bayern comes to mind. Unnecessary foul, yes, but does he really deserve to miss the final for that particular tackle? I don't think so.
Edit: Thinking this through, that's actually exactly the same as erasing the accumulated yellows after the quarters.
So, I would like to see them basically do just that, with a lowered tolerance for tactical fouls and such to avoid players go crazy feeling all "invincible".
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cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
He did a "Great job"? At the very least that statement is over the top, at the worst it is myopic. Bryarch and his colleagues screwed up big time for the penalties.
You say the penalties were so bad the deserved to be saved despite a blatant infraction of the rules. Would you be happy if Mario Andujar saves a penalty from Thomas Muller by running up to less than 3 meters away from the spot? Because that is an extension of your logic, although I'm hesitant to call it logic.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
beboquintero
I was new to forum I thought my full name was needed 
not sure why I still use my real name Adriana is a lovely innocent fit goddess
andy18cruz
Sth, sth ... dark side
Well, you could alter this idea a bit and say that only a sending-off would result in a suspension for the final. So straight Reds as well as a second Yellow. That way the players would still have to refrain from committing "little" fouls, since two of those could well result in a sending-off. Add to that referees urged to watch out for this kind of behavior in particular and you've got yourself a fair alternative, I believe.
It's just such a shame when a quality player misses a final because of a dumb foul or something similar because he had collected one too many Yellows in earlier rounds. Not to forget that it happens ever so often that cards are awarded unjustly. Some referees are especially quick when it comes to drawing Yellows.
Xabi Alonso against Bayern comes to mind. Unnecessary foul, yes, but does he really deserve to miss the final for that particular tackle? I don't think so.
Edit: Thinking this through, that's actually exactly the same as erasing the accumulated yellows after the quarters.
So, I would like to see them basically do just that, with a lowered tolerance for tactical fouls and such to avoid players go crazy feeling all "invincible".
Yeah, it seems unfair, but the other way around would be too much detrimental for the semi-finals. Player would abuse the system. It's hard to see quality players miss the final, especially if the ref gives yellows like there's no tomorrow. Alonso is an example, but also Salvio saw a yellow card at 90 min for a foul (hand ball) that he didn't even commit. But for me, is the best possible system.
You know the reason that most players do not attempt those types of penalties, don't you? That's because those are the ones with the most possibility of missing (wide or over the bar). Just ask Sergio Ramos. And still even on those penalties if you give the gk 3 metres of advance the angle will be so reduce that there's a significant chance of him defending the ball. Trust me, I was a keeper back in the day.
Even in Spain they are saying that Benfica had at least 2 penalties (with 2 red cards), plus commenting on the whole Beto coming of the line. http://www.miragens.abola.pt/media.aspx?id=20300. Guess it was only us Benfica fans are imagine things and saying that the ref stole the game.
gerd
Retired Footballer
About the ref.
Yes he made mistakes, but just take a look at the match. This was an extremely difficult match to handle. Lots of fouls and dives...
If teams (BOTH teams), play unfair, they shouldn't complain about the ref. This is often the case with teams from Portugal or Spain.
I also agree about the refs' mistake about Beto's position when Benfica missend the first penalty.
Yes he made mistakes, but just take a look at the match. This was an extremely difficult match to handle. Lots of fouls and dives...
If teams (BOTH teams), play unfair, they shouldn't complain about the ref. This is often the case with teams from Portugal or Spain.
I also agree about the refs' mistake about Beto's position when Benfica missend the first penalty.