The Retro-PES Corner

One of the worst referee decisions was the annulation of Wilmots' goal against Brazil for an alleged non-existant foul. I bet the Belgians would have won, they played better for most of the game and Wilmots was godly until Rivaldo scored another one of his screamers. Unfortunately for Belgium, they didn't advance from group H in my PES tournament to try to take vengeance...

By the way, happy 300th page @miguelfcp ! :D
 
@Meazza84: :BAND: Three hundred pages about games released many years, decades ago, can you believe that? In a world (both the virtual and the real) where people are more and more nasty to each other, a place like this, full of nice folks just focusing on enjoying their adventures enough to come and share them with others, completely devoid of any negativity, is a heart-warming rarity - even more so considering not just the turbulent state of the PES series over the last few years, but really the whole toxic modern football gaming scene. I think that even if I were the kind of guy who didn't particularly like to play retro-PES games (assuming these people are allowed to exist; who the hell can't enjoy a match of PES3 or PES5 or ISS Pro Evo...?) I'd surely come here just to be a part of this wonderful scene.

Over the last few years we've proved that despite the fact that we live in the most consumerist society in recorded history, it is possible to (also, or exclusively) enjoy a different gaming way, not focused on only playing the latest games just because they're the most recent therefore they're the best - never understood this (lack of) logic...- but focused on opening our minds to the "galaxy" of enjoyable football titles we can enjoy however and whenever we want to. In the meantime, we're also carrying a heavy burden on our backs because no one else has wanted to carry it over the last few decades: the burden of telling the tales of these wonderful classics, making sure the memory and the legacy of a PES3 or a PES5 are never forgotten; because regardless of what non-gamers think, these games are Art - great Art - and great Art needs to be preserved. Because whether we like it or not, some of these retro-PES titles are an important part of our generation's culture, and therefore a part of each and every one of us. In a world where we our heritages are shortened, one of the few things we'll be able to pass on to our descendants is probably not big houses nor expensive cars nor great patrimonies but our culture. Some might think I'm exaggerating here, but seriously, look around you: where are the Mozarts, the Rembrandts of our age? They're gamers. The great Art of our time is gaming and just like the Guernicas or the Toccata and Fugues were among the highest displays of human talent of their age, undoubtedly the ISS Pro Evos and PES3s are among our own examples of that brilliance.

When most people decide that these games are 'just old' and 'irrelevant' only because xx days have passed since the games' release therefore they're suddenly not good anymore, and because of that the games become totally forgotten over time, you get what you have today: a whole, younger generation of gamers behaving as spoiled brats, behaving as if football gaming was a gift that descended from the heavens, or aliens brought it on a spaceship, and boom, there you have it: a football simulation with hyper-realistic graphics and all the bells and whistles. No. The games they play nowadays are the result of many decades of tireless work of talented developers who got us from literally nowhere to heights no one ever thought it was possible to achieve. If these younger gamers knew that story in detail, not only they'd appreciate much more what they have now, they'd even be humbled enough to join us older folks for some retro-football action surely, in order to discover the football gaming giants that made history and on whose backs the modern ones have been built. But they don't know that story - which is part of my motivation to keep on writing about this, for that story needs to be remembered forever as a testament of the great Art humans produce when they devote themselves to it fully, regardless of what (technological) tools they use to achieve it.

Fortunately, over the last two years or so here on the Corner, we've been telling that story together, perhaps helping rekindle some of that passion for Pro Evo that many had lost after the series started its decline. I don't know the future of PES and football gaming as a whole, nor what will happen to our Corner itself (it has seen more active days, surely), or even...what will happen to the world itself!; but regardless of what happens, we'll always have the blessing of experiencing these wonderful games. They must be so good that ten, fifteen, twenty years later, here we are still passionately playing and talking about them.

Here's to another 300 pages or more. Cheers everyone :WORSHIP:
 
Celebrating the 300th page, I will update about my current save in PES2011 ML for PC, with so much lovely features I miss. Despite slow progress, still in first season.

I will edit the post and explain the story in the next minutes.

The general story is, started an ML in PES 2011 PC, using smoke patch, months ago. 10 minutes, TopPlayer, picked Leeds United with ML defaults. The last dance for players like Castolo and Minanda who retired since pes2012 for the ML defaults team.

Had to play on 2011 onTopPlayaer since back then, so the begin was very tough. As you can see in the league table, everything is possible, everything except our promotion. The first half of the season, was a punch to the stomach. having only players like Palmieri from the youth academy and a random guy named L. Sam, checking transfermarkt he is a Ghanaian footballer, spemnt his last 8 seasons playing between MLS and EFL lower leagues. For 2011 he is fast though and does his job.

In the winter transfer window, we went all in, in financial terms, selling a lot iconic defaults, except for Minanda, CAstolo, Ruskin, Moubarki, Ivarov, Zamenhof!!!!, and others. In order to open empty slots in the roster for new signings. Exploited the time machine that is named retroPES. The big advantage with Retro PES when you want to go cheaty, is that you can go back in time and pick a player before he does the breakthrough. So we picked Lewandowski, 22yo for 1,5 M € :P :P , we picked Aduriz through the scout, who usually is my main CF as a regen, this time i picked him in his 30yo.
Also grabbed the last week of the window, an unknown DMF named Fabrizio de Souza, and the Greek "Messi" of 2011, V. Koutsianikoulis, who was a poorman's Messi in PES and Real-Life newspapers, but not in real life football unfortunatelly, and the Cypriot-Greek Messi of 2011, Froxilias or Froxylias. Both WFs left footed and fast enough to enforce our wings.

Also spent some weeks and Euros to train a PES generic player named PELAEZ into a new position. And bought a GK named FATECHA , who i remember somone used here in a 2008 ML.

I really miss all those features PES 2011 ML offers. our main target for the season, is to survive financially and invest next season in better scouts, coaches, and in our marketing department and youth academy.

Also in the winter window , i spotted the tranfer "bug?" that 2011 had, where some world class players go Berserk and change teams every six months. For instance , in my current save, C. RONALDO who had him start in Juventus, signed for Inter Milan.
 

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slamsoze said:
Celebrating the 300th page, I will update about my current save in PES2011 ML for PC, with so much lovely features I miss. Despite slow progress, still in first season.

I will edit the post and explain the story in the next minutes.

The general story is, started an ML in PES 2011 PC, using smoke patch, months ago. 10 minutes, TopPlayer, picked Leeds United with ML defaults. The last dance for players like Castolo and Minanda who retired since pes2012 for the ML defaults team.

Had to play on 2011 onTopPlayaer since back then, so the begin was very tough. As you can see in the league table, everything is possible, everything except our promotion. The first half of the season, was a punch to the stomach. having only players like Palmieri from the youth academy and a random guy named L. Sam, checking transfermarkt he is a Ghanaian footballer, spemnt his last 8 seasons playing between MLS and EFL lower leagues. For 2011 he is fast though and does his job.

In the winter transfer window, we went all in, in financial terms, selling a lot iconic defaults, except for Minanda, CAstolo, Ruskin, Moubarki, Ivarov, Zamenhof!!!!, and others. In order to open empty slots in the roster for new signings. Exploited the time machine that is named retroPES. The big advantage with Retro PES when you want to go cheaty, is that you can go back in time and pick a player before he does the breakthrough. So we picked Lewandowski, 22yo for 1,5 M € :P :P , we picked Aduriz through the scout, who usually is my main CF as a regen, this time i picked him in his 30yo.
Also grabbed the last week of the window, an unknown DMF named Fabrizio de Souza, and the Greek "Messi" of 2011, V. Koutsianikoulis, who was a poorman's Messi in PES and Real-Life newspapers, but not in real life football unfortunatelly, and the Cypriot-Greek Messi of 2011, Froxilias or Froxylias. Both WFs left footed and fast enough to enforce our wings.

Also spent some weeks and Euros to train a PES generic player named PELAEZ into a new position. And bought a GK named FATECHA , who i remember somone used here in a 2008 ML.

I really miss all those features PES 2011 ML offers. our main target for the season, is to survive financially and invest next season in better scouts, coaches, and in our marketing department and youth academy.

Also in the winter window , i spotted the tranfer "bug?" that 2011 had, where some world class players go Berserk and change teams every six months. For instance , in my current save, C. RONALDO who had him start in Juventus, signed for Inter Milan.
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Great stuff mate! Makes me wanna fire up my ongoing (and suspended) 2011 Master as well. The way the game forces you to turtle and adapt in the first seasons is lovely.

Between all the various features, mixed with the game itself, it has some kind of atmosphere I truly find unique in the saga. It's like all the thing it does are beautifully balanced. Probably 2010/12 ML does technically have more stuff, but "sentimentally" to me 2011 is the best it ever has been.

Plus I'm guilty of "time machining" as well :P . Grabbed Lukaku, Aubameyang and Walker for just a few dimes iirc.
That SMoke Patch looks solid, anyway. I'd love to try out something different, even if I'm so fond of fake D2 teams at this point.. I identify whatever second division there is in 2011 with the likes of Pes/WE United, Sarmtomburg and the others, would maybe feel like something un-canon to have real teams there :P,
 
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Madmac79 said:
Great stuff mate! Makes me wanna fire up my ongoing (and suspended) 2011 Master as well. The way the game forces you to turtle and adapt in the first seasons is lovely.

Between all the various features, mixed with the game itself, it has some kind of atmosphere I truly find unique in the saga. It's like all the thing it does are beautifully balanced. Probably 2010/12 ML does technically have more stuff, but "sentimentally" to me 2011 is the best it ever has been.

Plus I'm guilty of "time machining" as well :P . Grabbed Lukaku, Aubameyang and Walker for just a few dimes iirc.
That SMoke Patch looks solid, anyway. I'd love to try out something different, even if I'm so fond of fake D2 teams at this point.. I identify whatever second division there is in 2011 with the likes of Pes/WE United, Sarmtomburg and the others, would maybe feel like something un-canon to have real teams there :P,
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Exactly, I feel the same about the mechanics. Still suffering from the 1 thing in-two things out, like no trade transfers, but all the staff inside is as accurate as possible.
Ofcourse 2010 has more staff, but the PDA interface makes it a nightmare to navigate.

2012 ans 2013 have again more staff, but i hate how the the trainers are cut to one coach, while here you have GK coach, athlete coach, coach. Also 12 & 13 had more things that were experimental like the items trainining or the position training through team chat, which are nice as ideas, but stayed in very early concept.

For me the training system in 2011, I could say is the best in any ML/CM mode I have ever played, cause it does the basics.
Focus points in specific sections, speed, Def, art, etc.

But most important for my taste, it lets you train your players in new positions, making your ML more flexible. I hate being trapped in a ML for ever with players that I can't use, cause they don't play similar positions, like a WF playing as SS and when I have to restart a ML save, cause I edited secondary positions.

I could say as a ML 2011 is the most value for money, it offers you 5 things, but you can milk something good from AL 5 of them.

As for the fake teams, yes I also like more the fake teams and players, I am a secret fan of Tsaktoyouri, Vamdenbuurd, Ternalbao, who are all beasts!

But unfortunately, there are a lot PES games and no time to edit all of them simultaneously, so I went in more AIO solutions.

Plus I feel too old by now. I have In my PC an old file from a backup from my old PC, it is 6BG with editing staff about PES2011, but I do not have the courage to even open it!!
 
slamsoze said:
Exactly, I feel the same about the mechanics. Still suffering from the 1 thing in-two things out, like no trade transfers, but all the staff inside is as accurate as possible.
Ofcourse 2010 has more staff, but the PDA interface makes it a nightmare to navigate.

2012 ans 2013 have again more staff, but i hate how the the trainers are cut to one coach, while here you have GK coach, athlete coach, coach. Also 12 & 13 had more things that were experimental like the items trainining or the position training through team chat, which are nice as ideas, but stayed in very early concept.

For me the training system in 2011, I could say is the best in any ML/CM mode I have ever played, cause it does the basics.
Focus points in specific sections, speed, Def, art, etc.

But most important for my taste, it lets you train your players in new positions, making your ML more flexible. I hate being trapped in a ML for ever with players that I can't use, cause they don't play similar positions, like a WF playing as SS and when I have to restart a ML save, cause I edited secondary positions.

I could say as a ML 2011 is the most value for money, it offers you 5 things, but you can milk something good from AL 5 of them.

As for the fake teams, yes I also like more the fake teams and players, I am a secret fan of Tsaktoyouri, Vamdenbuurd, Ternalbao, who are all beasts!

But unfortunately, there are a lot PES games and no time to edit all of them simultaneously, so I went in more AIO solutions.

Plus I feel too old by now. I have In my PC an old file from a backup from my old PC, it is 6BG with editing staff about PES2011, but I do not have the courage to even open it!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, 2011 training system was simply fantastic. I was SO mad when I saw they practically erased in 2012 (although I can't remember how the interview thing used to work, I only have very vague memories) and most of all with 2013, that as already said many times dumbed down a lot of stuff. I was equally mad when always in the latter they introduced the item system to boost players, as it effectively looked stupidly arcade (and kind of a precursor to the microstransaction era, in a way).

And I also love the fake players of course :P . IIRC Vandenbuurd became the best defender in the world in my ML :D
 
Happy 300 pages and counting. It's no surprise that so many still enjoy these golden oldies because they really were so well crafted. None of this sticking games out and then patching the crap out of them you get with most games now, FIFA and PES in particular.

Focussing on PES, it's incredible that we're still missing features that were part of the game a decade ago. The focus on on-line is no doubt to blame but quite why Konami show such disregard to Master League, the mode won them such a loyal fanbase, is a mystery to me.

I fired up the PS3 for some PES 2010 last night. What a game that still is. The last of it's kind. No 360 movement of course but that game is seriously FUN! I'll be happily flitting from this to PES 2011 on the PS2 for a little while I think.
 
Sweden vs Denmark 1-2
Paraguay vs Cameroon 1-0
Spain vs Germany 1-2
Nigeria vs Uruguay 0-1
Italy vs South Korea 5-2
Brazil vs Tunisia 2-0
Costa Rica vs Russia 0-1
Croatia vs Portugal 0-3

Italy-Paraguay 1-0
Portugal - Germany 0-3
Brazil - Denmark 2-0
Uruguay - Russia 0-2

First semi-final game:
 
Great post @miguelfcp and I can honestly say that if I were to read your posts without knowing you, that I would never know that English was not your native language. It's amazing to think this thread has reached 300 pages and almost 9000 posts in what's a relatively short time really.


Reading all this I think it's time to start up a 2013 ML. What's the best patch to go with?


Flipper the Priest said:
I'm into the Evolution era now. Thought I'd let them go first, give them a chance this time...

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Ah come one, where's the challenge in beating England at penalties :LOL:
 
Madmac79 said:
Yeah, 2011 training system was simply fantastic. I was SO mad when I saw they practically erased in 2012 (although I can't remember how the interview thing used to work, I only have very vague memories) and most of all with 2013, that as already said many times dumbed down a lot of stuff. I was equally mad when always in the latter they introduced the item system to boost players, as it effectively looked stupidly arcade (and kind of a precursor to the microstransaction era, in a way).

And I also love the fake players of course :P . IIRC Vandenbuurd became the best defender in the world in my ML :D
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About positions in 2102, it is a little bit futuristic, but completely out of context.
In short words, you put X player in a position he is not familiar, your assistance comes after match and informs you that X player wants to speak you, X player asks you why you did play him out of position last match, you have the usual 3 possible answers,
1) I was experimenting with the tactics
2} I want you to learn new position
3) something I don't remember now..

You responded picking answer No2 and after some time you are playing him in that position, he is supposed to adapt, but you can't monitor neither the time needed nor the exp he has in that position.
 
mattmid said:
Great post @miguelfcp and I can honestly say that if I were to read your posts without knowing you, that I would never know that English was not your native language. It's amazing to think this thread has reached 300 pages and almost 9000 posts in what's a relatively short time really.
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Aye, your command of the language is outstanding, @miguelfcp. You must be positively Shakespearean in Portuguese!

mattmid said:
Ah come one, where's the challenge in beating England at penalties :LOL:
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And Scotland, with their new 100% shout-out record. :LOL: Needless to say it's all above board, no mulligans. It's by pure chance that I'm three for three but luck, of course, always runs out at some point. I've recorded a few others with interesting results, including my first attempt at PS2. My laptop took simultaneous emulation and recording in its stride. It's early days but I plan to do the lot. I now own all PESes on PS1-4 - I make that 38 shootouts to go through!
 
Keen to get started on something after having a break from playing PES, I changed my mind and decided to start a ML on PES6 using the file we used for the Youth League.

I made Portsmouth on the file so I'm going to play as them, even though most of the players have now been released or moved down to non league. A couple are now training with the first team squad though and one is a regular sub. It should be seriously tough I think seeing as nearly all the other youth teams are from first divisions.

It's going to be fascinating to see how this pans out across the league because every single player in the file is under 20 to begin with. I do wonder if some will become over powered but hopefully not because there's no superstars in terms of senior player stats levels at this stage. It will be really interesting to see how the likes of Haaland (still at Molde in the file), Kulusevic and so on progress. Will Atalanta be as good as they were in our manager league, how will those teams who weren't in it but had great youth teams perform, the likes of Monaco, Ajax etc. And more importantly, who will sign Zamenhof?

D2 will start with:

Portsmouth
Molde
Rosenborg
Aberdeen
Rangers
Hammarby
Malmo
HJK Helsinki


D1 will be

FC Copenhagen
FC Midtjylland
Arsenal
Chelsea
Everton
Liverpool
Man City
Man Utd
Tottenham
West Ham
Wolves
Celtic
Bayern
Dortmund
Hoffenheim
Leipzig


Other Divisions, split roughly geographically into E,S,W will be

Puskas Academy
Lech Poznan
Legia Warzaw
FCSB
Red Star
Partizan
Zenit
Shakhtar Donetsk
Anderlecht
Genk
Standard
Ajax
PSV
Utrecht
Feyenoord
RB Salzburg

CSKA Sofia
Ludogorets
Dinamo Zagreb
Hadjuk Split
Olympiakos
Panathinaikos
AC Milan
Atalanta
Inter
Juventus
Lazio
Napoli
Roma
Torino
Young Boys
Basel

Lille
Lyon
Marseille
Monaco
PSG
St Etienne
Benfica
Porto
Sp Lisbon
Ath Bilbao
Atl Madrid
Barcelona
Celta Vigo
Real Madrid
Real Sociedad
Valencia
 
Fenomeno9 said:
As usual, before the WC we were all talking about who will be World Champion, most people said France or Argentina, Portugal was also a favourite, same as Italy. Some also said England after the humiliation of Germany in Munich. As far as I remember Brazil wasn't mentioned a lot, at least in my little circle of school friends. We were shocked to see all the favourites lose early while one of the weakest German sides ever won one game after the other thanks to the brilliant performances of Oliver Kahn. Senegal came out of nowhere and after this WC didn't show up again for a long time.
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I love reading people's World Cup anecdotes and their reactions to how the stories of these tournaments unfolded in real time. It's like a "where were you when JFK got shot or on 9/11" - Everyone remembers what they were doing or where they were watching when their nation gets knocked out or succeeds so vividly.

I wasn't a football fan during WC2002 so everything i know is thanks to revisionist history and the gift of the internet but I do remember we was given the morning off of school to watch England v Brazil in the Quarters, Like i said; I didn't care for football then but still took advantage stayed at home for the sake of it and watched it anyway, Not having a clue about the rules or the significance of the game. But i remember everyone in my household being terribley excited over Owen's opener and this feeling of "It's happening, We're gonna beat Brazil!!!" Then the equaliser before half time, Then in typically spectacular English fashion, conceding a completely inexplainable goal that could only happen to us that probably anyway else in the tournament would've saved and then failing to reply with anything but a whimper against 10 men.

Like you, Went to school that morning feeling a little bit bummed out despite not being much of a fan. I seemingly became one after that game!

Fenomeno9 said:
There were so many great players around at this time I always thought how amazing it could have been if they were all around in their best form and with good referees. Thanks to PES 6 and all these patches it is possible to rewrite history.
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Exactly, I've never quite understood why people like to patch the older games with modern rosters, To me the appeal is enjoying the context of the games through the iconic players that graced those periods in these games. As @miguelfcp put it so eloquently, These games are works of art and sometimes part of the process of preserving art is to admire and appreciate the world in they interpreted and was released. It's like colouring black and white photographs, It's interesting from a novelty standpoint but what does it say about the world's advances or civilization if we force it to match our modern standards? It needs to be explored objectively that it is a piece of history from different era in our civilization.

While many of the players in these games have aged naturally like we all do and some players sadly no longer with us, The beauty of gaming is that these players are not only acknowledged and recognised as having contributed enough to the sport to be a part of recorded history in another format other than traditional record keeping via a videogame, They are immortalised forever and players who are no longer with us, Shall live forever in the form of this great series.

Fenomeno9 said:
I played a lot of PES 2017 on PS4 again, I was pleasantly surprised with the high number of fouls compared to the newer games like 2020. This and the fact the season update 2021 won't include the famous stadium of Inter and AC Milan anymore makes it easy for me to say no to the new PES for the 1st time since 2015. In the end, sooner or later I always return to PES 5 and 6 anyway.
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Yes, Another example of how nothing lasts forever in real life and soon they will be demolished. And iconic sight of footballing history will be replaced for the sake of another drag and drop synthetic Allianz arena style soup bowl devoid of character and power. Whilst I can't argue against the interest of safety and building regulation, It's still sad to see them go and there is no other way, Maybe maintenance alone cannot save them and it's just simply time to move on and modernise.

Yet again, It is immortalised in PES alongside the Delle Alpi, Calderon and The Rasunda among others.
miguelfcp said:
:BAND: Three hundred pages about games released many years, decades ago, can you believe that?
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Who would've thought there would be this much enthusiasm eh? I suppose it's not that surprising because as long as you think of something, Somewhere there is a community of like minded people for it. There's a demand for Retro PES, Perhaps a smaller one for Retro FIFA, One for collecting old football sticker albums and one for sniffing worn socks. You name it, There's a demand for it somewhere.

Retro PES may not take over the world and with every passing generation there will be less interest and curiosity for it from newer generations but there will always be a small community of people who are academics at heart who will be Retro Footballs art students of the gaming world, Who like young students of today who are seeking out knowledge of century's old art in museums or music & literature from across the annuls of time, There will be those fascinated to learn about the origins of Football gaming when trying to piece together where it all went wrong come FIFA 31 and PES 2031 and why these franchises were successful in the first place to warrant over 30 games in succession.

PES is our music, Yes we all grew up with those songs and artists that form our tastes for the rest of our lives and take us back into our bedroom or the streets with our mates during our carefree youth when we hear them But PES is the compendium to that too. For some it's iconic movies you saw for the first time or a great Christmas where you got the gifts you wanted that your able to use to mark milestones in your youth but for many of us, alongside these we're able to use Retro PES as an instrument in this fashion too, It's been a constant in my life through good and bad games but what is history without a little failure?

I can play PES 2008 or PES 2014 through retrospective and objective eyes now and it's interesting to study how these are unacceptable commercial products but more importantly, They were artistic risks taken and that also took some courage. Especially with 2014, at a time when the football and gaming landscape was moving into instant gratification with rampant online cut throat consumerism, Konami tried to deliver the ultimate in brutally realistic inertia in football, something they flirted with on the PS2 and now they finally had the tech to play with and unapologetically published their vision.

When you play a game like this without the pressure of "Wtf, This isn't like FUT, we can't convert FIFA player with this product!" and instead try and appreciate the interpretation and vision they had like a Picasso painting or a Doors album, That it's against convention at the time and it's easier to enjoy it the way it was meant to be played.

Anyway beautiful write up Miguel, You got me rambling a little toward the end - I'm just not sure I can match that Gettysburg address style tribute to this wonderful series the same way but what did touch me is your sentiment about leaving what behind to our descendants. I totally agree, That's the true meaning of the term Meme, Something else that has mutated into a new meaning among this generation. But for a meme isn't originally a digestible viral gag, It's the concept of passing on ideals, beliefs and culture on to the next generation. It's the cultural opposite of GENE'S. We pass on our physical DNA through that but everything that embodies our thoughts, passions and convictions live on in the form of MEME'S and where did I learn that from? Not only of course a videogame which we must preserve as much as books music and cinema but of course another little known Konami IP called Metal Gear Solid 2.
 
Thanks Matt and Flip, I've always felt comfortable with the English language but over the last few years, as I've been writing more and more - now even actual articles! - I've realized how much I still don't know about it. I'm constantly searching English words online these days. If you want to learn about something, write about it, they say...and they're absolutely right. The weird thing is, the more I'm exposed to the language, the more it starts "creeping in" on my Portuguese; sometimes the word I'm looking for "appears" first on its English version and only then I remember the actual Portuguese word :D.

@MafiaMurderBag: Appreciate the kind words MMB. Initially I was just thinking of writing a few words but I get all fired up when I start writing...when I got back to myself I realized I had written what young people these days call the proverbial TL;DR!

You know, I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this around here but...I wholeheartedly believe we'll see gaming be regarded as the Art us old folks know it to be by the general public in the near future. It just hasn't happened yet because this is the newest art form around. It's still a 'baby' compared to the others.
Naturally I wasn't around to witness this, but looking back, I believe the same process happened with all other arts. Take motion pictures, for example. On the first few decades after its invention and as the first movies were being released, people cared mostly about watching the latest movie that the industry fed them, gobsmacked by this novelty. Movies were entertainment, first and foremost. Only many decades later the general audience realized that an actual movie history had been developed over time and decided to explore it, then they passed that historical knowledge on to others; to a point where nowadays, if you want to consider yourself a decent movie connoisseur, you have to experience the last hundred years of film and watch the likes of Metropolis, Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, Psycho, etc. Movies are still entertainment, but enough time has passed to convince everyone to elevate it to an Art.

That evolution will also happen to gaming: for decades we've been mostly just eating whatever the industry decides to feed us; our current culture believes that retro gaming is this weirdo-thing, a "fetish" like I once heard someone call it, something to be pursued only by a 'handful' of quirky, weird dudes. But as the Art of gaming matures, the general audience will have that above-described epiphany. They will move beyond considering gaming as mere entertainment and finally see it also as the Art that it is. Then, retro gaming will be something above mere retro, but actual gaming history. Not knowing that history will be considered as disappointing as someone who doesn't know about movie history, the history of music, of writing: he who doesn't know about it will always be far from understanding the full extent of Man's brilliance.
 
Beautiful posts, both Miguel and MMB. You perfectly nailed the beauty and the value there is in immersing in an "old" world such as every single retro football games is. It's much more than just a generic fun.

I remember a discussion online, years ago, with a guy convinced that having a football/sport game as an absolute favourite would be something unacceptable, without a proper dignity. I would have made him read both of you!
 
Madmac79 said:
Beautiful posts, both Miguel and MMB. You perfectly nailed the beauty and the value there is in immersing in an "old" world such as every single retro football games is. It's much more than just a generic fun.

I remember a discussion online, years ago, with a guy convinced that having a football/sport game as an absolute favourite would be something unacceptable, without a proper dignity. I would have made him read both of you!
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You're a better man than me. I'd have just told him to fuck off.

Edit: Got me thinking whether a non-football game would break my top... 20, such is my obsession with football games. Wrestlemania 2000 comes to mind. Show me a better multiplayer experience than a Wrestlemania 2000 Royal Rumble and I'll give you my soul. Especially when you change all the wrestlers to familiar-ish looking friends/family/colleagues/teachers.
 
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ISS Pro Evolution Soccer 2. Mornings before school, lunchtime and straight after until bedtime. The game I have played most in my entire, ordinary life. And now, nearly 20 years later, here we are.

Meazza84 said:
Also, as promised, I bring you WE6FE widescreen:

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Looks great. What a game that is. Maybe my favourite having only really gotten to grips with it this year. As good as a PES2 and PES3 hybrid sounds.
 
@Meazza84: Man, that looks amazing, great video. I'm ashamed to admit I've never played WE6FE. Another one for the long list...

@Flipper the Priest: I'm now on ISS PE2 (again playing it through my recently-rebranded as a PSOne emulator, the PSP) and was disappointed to see...real player names. Where the hell is my Ponto Vera? On the plus side, unlike on ISS PE, Jorge Costa is there.
 
Hi all,
Has anyone made a Pes 2020 retro menu screen? I know there is one for Pes 2019 but haven’t seen one for 2020.

please let me know. Thanks 😊
 
marktayer18 said:
Hi all,
Has anyone made a Pes 2020 retro menu screen? I know there is one for Pes 2019 but haven’t seen one for 2020.

please let me know. Thanks 😊
Click to expand...

Hope somebody will help you but I don't think there are many people playing 2020 in his thread, you'll probably have more luck asking in the editing section ;)
 
miguelfcp said:
My wonderkid-fueled journey continues, this time with the best young sidebacks in PES5: a list that contains one of the best players in recent history, another who was an important part of one of the greatest football teams of all-time, and some guy named Kaebi, whoever that might be, among others.

https://liberomagazine.wordpress.com/2020/10/22/the-pes5-wonderkids-part-3-sidebacks/
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Some guy named Kaebi?? Some guy?? Ohh com'on Miguel.

Apart from Mahdavikia, Kaebi was the most well known Iranian player in the 00's decade.

And except for cult he was also very decent player, if there were Social media back then, or he had better manager, he would be another Mahrez or Salah of the SBs.
I was waiting for the WC2006 of Germany to watch him playing in real life, cause until then I was knowing him only from PES5 and I was really curious if he had any relation to his stats.

Paste from wikipedia: Kaebi was in the Iran squad for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, appearing in all three matches of the group stage. His most memorable performance came against Portugal, where he was able to clamp down both Cristiano Ronaldo and Luís Figo.[12]

Also, except for the much overrated stats KONAMI gave him, he must be the only player in the World, that gained a nickname by a video-game. Due to licensing in PES his name in latter games was DAGAKA. As pre social media-youtube era, it was almost impossible to get access and info to AFC leagues and competitions, it was and still is difficult to say if people started to call Kaebi "Dagaka" due to PES or if his nickname in real life was Dagaka and KONAMI grabbed it for the special fake names they used to have in the past for unlicensed naming.


But not Kaebi who??? I can't live with it. :)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hossein_Kaebi

https://www.transfermarkt.com/hossein-kaebi/profil/spieler/24643

https://pes.neoseeker.com/wiki/Dagaka

https://www.pesmaster.com/kaebi/pes-5/player/1200/

https://www.pesmaster.com/dagaka/pes-2011/player/71431/
 
Fun fact, there is a PES maybe 6 or 2008 or 2010, where he is named Kaebi and has shirtname Dagaka, or vice versa. Next level licensing plagiarism!!! :P
 
Halfway through the first season and it's @rockstrongo 's Hammarby that sit atop the table and he'll be pleased to see Malmo below them. @Flipper the Priest 's Aberdeen sit in a healthy third particularly after losing the first two games of the season without scoring as well. He'll be equally pleased to see Rangers bottom of the pile. So am I, as that means I'm at least above someone.

Scoring has been difficult, our two goals coming in two 1-0 wins against Rangers and Malmo, the first two games of the season as well, meaning we've managed just a point from the last five games.

With a squad of just 18, generally low stamina across the board and with three CM's on the bench options have been limited during games to change things up. Often I've decided to leave the 11 on the pitch just so as to have some fresh players for the next game. I could have done without getting through the first round of the cup really as that means more games to come and less stamina to play them with.

I've adopted @geeeeee 's house rules of only being able to sign from team's ranked below you in the club ranking list or free agents. As nobody is currently below my 72nd position then free agents it is. The other rule of his is that if a team ranked above you comes in for your player then you have to sell them. I think it's unlikely anyone will be in for my players any time soon though!

I've managed to pick up three free agents, a CF, a WG/AM who can also play up front as well and a DM/CM. None world beaters as you'd expect but all three who will come straight into the line up even though the teamwork may take an initial hit of course until they bed in.

My new striker Mabika is just 16. His general stats are where you'd expect them to be but he has ATT of 76 and Shot Acc of 81 so if I can get him in position then he might just get amongst the goals. With speed of 74 he's no slouch either. Technique of 40 and dribbling of 45 won't see him waltzing through three players and tucking it home but if he can get some space he should be getting it on target more often than not.


Baica, the AM come winger/striker has no real standout stats but plenty of 60's and 70's in the right places and an upgrade on what I have. An 18yr old Romanian, he has plenty of time to improve. Decent teamwork and mentality will be useful as well.

Azhil is the DM/CM, a Moroccan free agent, who will give us a bit more bite in midfield, pretty quick and agile.


table1.JPG
 
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