The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Suuuuupertalk]

It's true that we all played PES irrespective of the game's aesthetics, but it does make it even harder these days when it falls so far behind current tech. Back in the days of PS2, PES wasn't the best looking game out there but it was impressive in terms of animation. When you look at PES and FIFA today, it's hard to imagine that it was only 5-6 years ago that PES' animations were by far the most impressive. Shows what a little company investment can do.

 

[Ern Dog]

I'm going to assume you have tried turning the shot and pass error sliders up. Other than that it is hard to program in randomness that everyone wouldn't complain about. I thought the demos for PES were decent but since it didn't have the camera angle I prefer there was no way I was going to plunk down 65 bucks since there were so many complaints.

Try turning the shot error up to 55 and see if you don't miss a few more shots.

I forgot about the sliders, thanks. One problem though is that you cant use them online, but after the 2 online games I have played so far I'm not sure I will be going online again anyway.

I dont understand the bashing of FIFA's AI either, to me it seems equally as good as the current PES.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I dont understand the bashing of FIFA's AI either, to me it seems equally as good as the current PES.

Not a chance in hell, Maybe 1.02 but when your used to 1.00 and then you play Fifa it's like playing with statues and players very rarely deviate from their playing positions to help teams mates out.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

That's right. Specifically, it's the rigidness of shapes and formations and lack of pro active movement off the ball that's being bashed about FIFA's AI. There may be some good AI in terms of different players doing some things but shape wise, it's not loose enough.

 

[Ern Dog]

I cant agree guys, everything you say FIFA doesnt do I can see happening and its just as good as PES. I thought the same as you when just the demos were out, after playing demo 1 and going to FIFA it felt pretty static. After getting fed up with the PES retail I tried out the FIFA demo again and it felt equally as alive which is what prompted me to buy the full game.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I initially thought FIFA12 was just as 'alive' too, and in terms of the CPU, it is better than PES. But problems arise when YOU have the ball. It all feels so static to me now.

I've noticed in FIFA that my build up play usually involves the same kind of passing lanes, same types of moves. I need to force players to run forwards or else they stand still, and even then they run in a straight line. Most goals I score are where the ball is played in to my strikers' feet, and I can turn, beat the last man, slot it in the corner. It's betting very boring.

For all PES' problems, the games I played last night, on both PES2011 and 2012, everything did feel vastly more open and random. PES feels more frantic and end to end, which I don't like, but the unpredictability is there to make it appeal from one game to the next (certainly in PES2011, and to a much lesser extent 2012 pre-patch). I just don't feel that in FIFA12, which is disappointing because after a week of owning FIFA12 I thought it was amazing. But it's like a switch went off, now I can't play more than one match without getting really bored.

 

[P34SEMM]

As bad as PES12 is I still prefer it to FIFA12.

If PES had FIFA keepers and better shooting then for me it would do until PES13.

 

[henrys hand]

It's true, PES 2012 feels much more alive and varied than Fifa 12. The ball-physics are better in PES 2012, there is more individuality and you feel more like a footballer in PES 2012 than in Fifa 12... but seriously both games are equally bad compared to real life football.

I will concentrate on PES 2012's problems here:

1. Scripting: Single biggest problem with the game. There is no really intelligent and aware AI with the CPU that works towards winning, that tries to find your weaknesses, that adapts and develops their tactic to play and win against you.
Instead scripting is used to create challenges. You can have all the possession you want, you can control the game, but when the CPU decides it's all-goes-right-time, you can do little to prevent the CPU from scoring. Suddenly the dribblings of the CPU are laser-precise and their feet and the ball go through your feet as if they were ghost-like, suddenly your defender decides to leave his position for that killer-pass, suddenly your defender is slower than the attacker with ball, suddenly all defelected balls land on the feet of your opponent, suddenly your goalkeeper can't hold the easiest balls, corners and freekicks turn out to be nearly 100%-guaranteed scoring-opportunities for the CPU...
And when you are on the attack, suddenly your offensive players lose interest in making good runs or shooting becomes more difficult or there is always a leg thrown in by the defenders out of nowhere or the goalkeeper of the CPU suddenly turns magnificient or the ball goes wide or hits the posts...
When the game decides to score or prevent you from scoring, it's all out of your hand.

It becomes even bordering rediculous when you watch what string of passes and play the CPU celebrates when in scoring-mood, unbelievable precise passes and high balls over five or six stations ending in your net.

It's a real dilemma cause without the scripting the game would be boring and easy, cause there is no real adaptive AI to offer a genuine challenge.

In fact what is needed is a real 22-player-AI, with every player having his own subset-AI with his own individual vision-radius and intelligence regulated by the stats.

2. Compared to the first problem all others are miniscule but still worthy to mention:

- Players are often on rails that can only be left with super-cancel which is cumbersome and doing so is only possible by losing all the drive the player had.

- A striker runs forward and you play a high ball to him and he automatically stops and turns for a second to look at the trajectory of the ball in the air... losing all of the advantage his run had.

- Goalkeeper's animations look miserable and he lacks the will to prevent second-ball-opportunities, simply not quick enough to readjust after he committed to a certain action.

- The runs your offensive are often in the wrong lane, eventhough another route was available and would have been more successful to create an opportunity.

- Awareness regarding the ball and situations is missing.

- The ball is too glued on the feet of the players, it should be more independent and taking a bit more work to control it.

Verdict: PES 2012 for me is a 60%-game (Fifa 12 as well, although I have more feelings playing PES), clearly the best PES in this generation but dragged down so much by the negative aspects.
It seems like completely new engines are needed, a real 22-player-independent-AIs are needed to get rid of scripting without the game becoming boring, new animation-, physics- and ballphysics-engines are needed to finally free the game from its rails.

 

[Ern Dog]

It's a real dilemma cause without the scripting the game would be boring and easy, cause there is no real adaptive AI to offer a genuine challenge.

Konami ought to bring back Teamvision .

 

[Northzzz]

Yeah but what about that after-touch feature guys. That's pretty good i hear.

 

[pj_puttz]

I stuck on my BAL last night for the first time in a while and there were a few strange things going on.

I cant speed up the match time when I've been subbed anymore, the speed of the players on screen increases when I set it to level 2 but the match clock ticks on at the same speed as before. WTF?

We finished in 8th place which was one place away from qualification for the Europa League but somehow we're in the draw and straight into the group stages!?

I get subbed at around the hour mark in nearly EVERY damn game even though I have plenty of stamina left and I'm the top rated striker at the club. Just scored a goal? Subbed. Just set up a goal? Subbed. Team needs a goal and I'm on a hat-trick? Subbed. Got a stupid challenge from the chairman to complete a certain task? Subbed. Always around the 60 minute mark too. FFS Konami I paid £40 for the damn game cant you let me PLAY it instead of watching the crappy AI run around the park on it's own for 5 minutes because the speed up time option isn't working?

What the hell is going on at Konami? Is their playtester an EA mole or what?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Wow that sounds awful. I generally stay away from BAL, watching 80% of the game going on around you isn't much fun to me. A bit like club boss. I tried it, got bored after one match.

 

[P34SEMM]

Had a classic moment on ML last night.

one day before my season kicks off 8 of my team are selected for international duty for games that are to be played.............1 day before the league kicks off.
Classic Konami moment.

 

[pj_puttz]

Wow that sounds awful. I generally stay away from BAL, watching 80% of the game going on around you isn't much fun to me. A bit like club boss. I tried it, got bored after one match.

I really enjoyed BAL on PES 2011 so I thought I could maybe salvage some sort of enjoyment from PES 2012 from that mode seeing as the Master League is so controller gnawingly frustrating........but no.

The weird bugs aside, actually playing the game is horrible too. Your team mates are complete idiots and every single AI team you play against sits REALLY deep and punts inch perfect balls up the park to their lone striker whenever it suits them. One of your moronic full backs will always ensure the AI striker is onside.

The most frustrating thing is that now and again it shows glimpses of the great mode it COULD be. Now and again your team mates will click and start playing superb one touch football with you and it actually feels intelligent for a second or two. Then one of them will try a scissor kick from 30 yards out for the umpteenth time or some other such bullshit and you just want to switch it off.

It's nothing but a tedious attack vs defence exercise 90% of the time.

 

[henrys hand]

Played lots of Fifa 12 lately and got bored, threw in PES 2012 again, much better feeling but playing against the AI on professional or higher sucks so much due to the extreme scripting going on and all the rails when off the ball get on the nerves as well.

I guess I give up now on the game and let it collect dust, the love only lasted two months.

Until there is a real AI without cheating and more freedom in gameplay (ie. way less rails off-the-ball) and a realistic two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system there is just no point in playing against the CPU.

Until then I guess I won't buy a PES- nor a Fifa-game again.

 

[pj_puttz]

In my desperation for a football game to play for the next 10 months I am seriously considering buying FIFA but then again I dont really see the point because I hated FIFA 2011.

I have some reward card cash to spend and Uncharted 3 to trade in because I've completed it so it wouldn't cost me much, that's making it even more tempting.

Or should I get Saints Row 3 instead for some mindless violent nonsense?

Thoughts guys?

PS I know it's off topic but I've slagged off PES 2012 so much my soul hurts.

 

[Ern Dog]

FIFA takes ALOT of getting used to if you are a long time PES player. I struggled to make the adjustment but when it clicked it was worth the effort. I dont intend to touch PES2012 again and when the demos come out next year it will be FIFA I am anticipating more. I have given up on Seabass now, 5 games and not one of them playable for more than a few months. The last 2 dont even play like a finished game FFS!

 

[P34SEMM]

Said it before and Ill say it again. If you are a long time PES player you will probably never like Fifa.

Even PES12 for all its flaws I still find more enjoyable than Fifa.

This is coming from the man who.......bought Fifa and sent it back unopened. Re-rdered FIFA and then traded it for PES for a £1 in HMV. Traded PES for Fifa. Traded Fifa for PES, Traded PES for Fifa. Sold Fifa on Ebay. Bought PES on ebay with the money.

Next year I wont be doing this again. Ill just stick with PES. I just dont like Fifa. But every year the demo and screenshots make me think it looks good. But when I play it....I dont like it.

I put PES in the 360, Fire it up and I feel at home with it.

 

[Ern Dog]

I used to download the FIFA demos and play them for 5 mins and turn them off because they weren't PES. If you dont play the game with an open mind and leaves PES behind when you load it up you will never enjoy it. You need to appreciate it for what it is, not dislike it for what it isn't.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Ironically id say fifa resembles old pes more than new Pes IMO

and Steelhorse lmfao.

 

[Nobleknight]

My first post here
Sup guys , After playing PES2012 for 2 months I guess ,I traded it out.It's boring and feels lifeless
I liked demo 1 very much and I would have been happy if the full version was based on what demo 1 has (more freedom and less scripting) but that wasn't the case
To be honest I don't see PES being a good game until PS4

@pj_puttz I also didn't like fifa11 at all but fifa 12 is very different

 

[arthurm]

In my desperation for a football game to play for the next 10 months I am seriously considering buying FIFA but then again I dont really see the point because I hated FIFA 2011.

I have some reward card cash to spend and Uncharted 3 to trade in because I've completed it so it wouldn't cost me much, that's making it even more tempting.

Or should I get Saints Row 3 instead for some mindless violent nonsense?

Thoughts guys?

PS I know it's off topic but I've slagged off PES 2012 so much my soul hurts.

imo, FIFA11 was the worst in the current FIFA series....awful.

FIFA12 is a little better.

The most important improvement is the sliders, so you can alter the cpu's (and your own) passing accuracy, acceleration, etc. This makes playing against the cpu bearable in comparison with previous FIFAs, where the cpu was perfect all the time, never misplaced a pass, etc. It's still not particularly good but at least has a few hours of life in it.

The defending is also a little better now.

Career mode is also apparently much improved but I've not been able to stick at it long enough to notice because repeated play against the cpu soon gets very dull and repetitive. There's no real variety in teams and players, every team plays with the same tactics, every match feels the same and it becomes a chore to play. I'm at the stage now where I turn it on, play against the cpu for about 2 minutes and turn it off again in dismay. It's insipid and boring.

If PES introduced sliders so you could stop the cpu teams being perfect when they go into god mode, then I think there would be more longevity in it.

2 very disappointing games, frankly.

 

[pes4lyfe]

imo, FIFA11 was the worst in the current FIFA series....awful.

FIFA12 is a little better.

The most important improvement is the sliders, so you can alter the cpu's (and your own) passing accuracy, acceleration, etc. This makes playing against the cpu bearable in comparison with previous FIFAs, where the cpu was perfect all the time, never misplaced a pass, etc. It's still not particularly good but at least has a few hours of life in it.

The defending is also a little better now.

Career mode is also apparently much improved but I've not been able to stick at it long enough to notice because repeated play against the cpu soon gets very dull and repetitive. There's no real variety in teams and players, every team plays with the same tactics, every match feels the same and it becomes a chore to play. I'm at the stage now where I turn it on, play against the cpu for about 2 minutes and turn it off again in dismay. It's insipid and boring.

If PES introduced sliders so you could stop the cpu teams being perfect when they go into god mode, then I think there would be more longevity in it.

2 very disappointing games, frankly.

yeh that sucks cause IMO fifa 12 has everyting to make a great football game apart from the fact all the games against cpu feel the same and often shots and passes feel to accurate

I mean the engine and evertyhign about fifa 12 is almost perfect in many aspects but playing same game everytime gets boring fast.

Why was old Pes not so repetitive? The cpu played different styles with different teams and players? FIFA doesnt?

FIFA 12 online or against freinds is obviosuly more dynamic but often similar plays also make it repeitive.

Cut back goals
counter attack goals
1-2s all the way up the pitch

Perhaps old PES going back pes1,2,3 etc was able to uniwuely replicate the styel of each team as there only was a few teams in the games PES1 30 international, 12 club teams? PEs 20 club teams? pes3 40 club teams? etc..etc...

Mayeb FIFA is so many teams and lower league teams that they cannot possibly make each team unique?

I dont know.

Take fifa 12 engine and graphics etc and put in the CPU AI from PES3pes5 and you have a great game

 

[Nobleknight]

for me fifa is taking steps forwards , not huge steps but at least they don't go backwards
while PES one forward ,three backwards

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

In my desperation for a football game to play for the next 10 months I am seriously considering buying FIFA but then again I dont really see the point because I hated FIFA 2011.

Why not rent it for two days and try it out? I hated FIFA 11 with all my heart and vouched never to buy a FIFA game again, but they actually did improve on many aspects, most notably by giving passes and shots a bit more zip (you can also fine-tune both with the sliders). I scored a few in FIFA that gave me that feeling of achievement PES hasn't managed to give me anymore for quite a while now.

It does take a lot of time playing around with difficulty settings, sliders and game speeds until you find that sweet spot that sits best with you – and even then it's far from perfect – but at least you don't feel as if the entire game is scripted from the first to the last minute (even though some sort of 'momentum' is clearly noticable as well - otherwise there would be no challenge at all)

Sadly it's also true that every game more or less plays the same, mainly due to the repetitive and limited attacking patterns of the CPU AI – but to be honest: I didn't see much difference between Barcelona and a D2 back bencher in PES 2012 either and the shooting in the latter was just so infuriatingly nerfed that I gave up on it and traded it in.

 

[Ern Dog]

yeh that sucks cause IMO fifa 12 has everyting to make a great football game apart from the fact all the games against cpu feel the same and often shots and passes feel to accurate

I played a game online earlier as Sunderland vs Man City, got beat 0 - 8, he had 9 shots, the other hit the post, RIDICULOUS!

 

[Northzzz]

I think a lot of people look at Fifa with rose-tinted specs when comparing it to PES. Especially saying the engine is perfect. The engine is the reason for a lot of flaws in Fifa (Hint - Momentum, Inertia and quite frankly the way Fifa players move is overly streamlined). I don't think that Fifa is the promised land that some people here seem to subscribe to, or have done in some posts on this page. In fact i wager that far too many people are basing their opinions of the game in comparison to PES and because it doesn't have the problems PES does it seems better. Judging the game on its own rather than as a comparison allows you to see that it has a whole host of its own problems that hold the game back.

Personally i don't think that either game is good this year. They both have their own unique problems and most importantly far too many of them. I'd love a football game to play but i can't be assed to compromise and look past the glaring faults. There's far too many good games out there to play and too little time to do it in.

Also i'll never really understand why people think Fifa 10 was better than 11. Fifa 10 was unbelievable. Chip shots everywhere. Tall players being automatically stronger, always knocking you off the ball and as such being a complete detriment to balance in the game. Goalkeepers insanely scripted to be god-like. It was horrible. I'm not necessarilly saying that Fifa 11 was much better, its just that people seem to have too great a fondness for Fifa 10 that i'll never understand.

 

[Deluxe]

In my desperation for a football game to play for the next 10 months I am seriously considering buying FIFA but then again I dont really see the point because I hated FIFA 2011.

I have some reward card cash to spend and Uncharted 3 to trade in because I've completed it so it wouldn't cost me much, that's making it even more tempting.

Or should I get Saints Row 3 instead for some mindless violent nonsense?

Thoughts guys?

PS I know it's off topic but I've slagged off PES 2012 so much my soul hurts.

Mate, i was like you, gived up on next gen PES. And i tried another year again PES 6 with Shollym 2012 patch + Shollym Gameplay 2 Option File. The game is simply amazing, the pace and rythm of the game is better than any NextGen PES and it's very veeery hard like never before.

Is my advice.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Mate, i was like you, gived up on next gen PES. And i tried another year again PES 6 with Shollym 2012 patch + Shollym Gameplay 2 Option File. The game is simply amazing, the pace and rythm of the game is better than any NextGen PES and it's very veeery hard like never before.

Is my advice.

I just won PES 6 on PC off Ebay, Do you play PS2 or PC PES 6? If PC could you send the links to the option file and gameplay patches, also is there instructions on what you need to do?

 

[pes4lyfe]

I played a game online earlier as Sunderland vs Man City, got beat 0 - 8, he had 9 shots, the other hit the post, RIDICULOUS!

top strikers on fifa aka tevez, aguero etc...most often score with every shot within 25 yards. It requires minimal skill.