The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

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  • Poll closed .
Román said:
Mate, i was like you, gived up on next gen PES. And i tried another year again PES 6 with Shollym 2012 patch + Shollym Gameplay 2 Option File. The game is simply amazing, the pace and rythm of the game is better than any NextGen PES and it's very veeery hard like never before.

Is my advice. :SMUG:
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master league works?

I for some reason though PES3 and PES5 wer emuch better than Pes6.

Something about PES6 feels a bit crappy not same as PES1-5.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Which is why I always scratch my head about EA Sports. They have everything except the AI. Now they probably only need to make smallish changes to improve the gameplay by enough of a difference to make it noticeably better. Would be nice if they made it as good as PES but even they only got halfway there, it would be a massive improvement.
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You don't need good A.I when more than half of your consumer base plays Online. It's unfortunate, but true.
 
I put in the FIFA 12 disc last night and had a couple of games in my career mode. One game where I controlled just my player and another where I controlled the whole team.

The AI isn't too bad at times, it's just the way players move that kills me. Maybe it's the momentum/inertia concept people talk about but it looks too "stop start" for my liking. Even though the animations are really good, there's something that just lacks fluidity in ball and player movement.
 
Thanks for the comments and advice guys!

It looks like I'll have to resign myself to not having a football game to play at home this year for the first time in my gaming life.

I might rent FIFA 12 but I just know deep down I'm not going to like it.

Someone mentioned FIFA 10 earlier and funnily enough I played that very game at the weekend there. My mate has it and after I beat him at PES he wanted to play me at "his" game to get revenge. I beat him convincingly twice in a row (even though I forgot to change the controls so had to use the circle button to shoot instead of the square) then he didn't want to play anymore! :)

Anyway, boasting aside, my point is I actually really enjoyed playing FIFA 10! It felt pretty basic but it did everything I asked it to and was actually a lot of fun to play, whereas playing PES these days actually makes me miserable or even angry at times.

It made me realise that in their pursuit of making the game challenging Konami have sucked all the fun and enjoyment out of PES.
 
Aaargh! It's the most frustrating game I have ever player played bar none. Five matches last night, all enjoyable, but four of them ruined by 90th minute goals. It's ridiculous how frequent they happen. Crazy. Most of them were not my fault either. In fact most of them were remarkably like this goal I conceded;

YouTube - Another 90th Min Own Goal!

This happened in the 93rd minute. With their only effort on goal after I spent 92 minutes having 65% of the ball, camped outside their penalty box trying to find some kind of space to get the ball to my two or three players in their penalt box, who were outnumbered by the CPU's ten man bank of defenders, even on version 1.00. Up they go in the 93rd minute, shitty deflection off a poor shot, keeper is wrongfooted PLUS another defender who I'm not controlling idly stands by and watches it roll past him with no awareness to block the ball whatsoever.

It's crap like this that ruins an otherwise good game. Do Konami think that programming the CPU to shaft you at the end over and over, against the run of play, is something that won't leave a sour taste and make people want to go back to it?
 
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Watched it and yes, it was a shit deflection again, happens way to often. And yes, CPU loves to score last minute goals, no question. But i don't think this goal was unstoppable to be honest.

But it doesn't matter because overall you're right (65%-70% possession in almost every game, CPU scores to effective and to much late or quick goals). As i said before i found a way to defend against the CPU and don't get a lot of goals. But it would be more fun if the CPU playing style would be different from team to team. It is a little bit boring to see that all the CPU seems to do is defending and countering. I think this and the ultra effective scoring is what people annoys most.
 
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The defensive AI is shocking, that guy moves towards the ball and then stops short of getting in the way so it can go into the goal, LOL! I dont miss PES at all.
 
That's what I thought, there really wasn't anything I could do. I made the first tackle, ball runs loose to the CPU, before I can get anyone close enough for a second time he shoots, then after the deflection that guy just allows the ball to roll past him and into the net. The CPU made sure that he left it. It sounds ridiculous to say it but the CPU was simply cheating.

I wouldn't say that if it was a rare occurrence, but stuff like that happens EVERY time I play the game for more than a couple of matches. It's really bizarre. And 99.9% of the time it happens so late on that I stand no chance of coming back or getting a winner. Plus, I can maybe remember one occasion since buying the game that I've benefitted from this happening at the other end. Just once. If it was a case of the game replicating stuff like this happening in real life, but to an equal degree, I wouldn't be so frustrated with it, but it doesn't. The ratio of deflected goals for and against must be at least 40-1 in the CPU's favour by now. And I'd say of those 40, probably 90% of them came in injury time. It's just so blatant it almost seems like a bug.

This PES really doesn't feel like it rewards the player for anything. How Konami think that people will enjoy being shafted again and again and again is beyond me.
 
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Unfortunately for us, Seabass thinks this scripting/cheating AI behaviour makes the game "exciting" so it looks like we'll be stuck with it for as long as he is in charge.

Please listen to us Seabass! It's not exciting! It's fucking annoying! Games are supposed to be FUN! If they make you want to cry bitter tears of sheer frustration during play it's probably a sign that the programmers made a real mess of the game somewhere along the line!

That video is a great example of scripted last minute goals, non-existent team mate AI, lucky deflections always favouring the CPU team, crappy under-powered shooting, poor animations and not being able to select the player you want at a crucial time.

None of these things are acceptable in a modern day game. They are basic, easily fixed problems but they are kept in PES games by people like Seabass to make them harder because they cant be arsed coding a decent AI to challenge us.
 
Ern Dog said:
The defensive AI is shocking, that guy moves towards the ball and then stops short of getting in the way so it can go into the goal, LOL! I dont miss PES at all.
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It's strange, I was going to stop playing it completely but then decided to give it a two week break. Since coming back to it I enjoyed the game immensely for about two evenings then yet again like last time all this stuff started happening the more I played it. During that two weeks I played and finished Mass Effect and enjoyed it immensely. Nothing happens in other games that so consistently pisses me off, in fact playing Mass Effect in comparison was just the way game's are meant to be played - it was polished, tough but above all fair.

If Seabass made a non-football game he'd probably include boss fights where they could do some unblockable super move that just ends the game right there and then, with the player unable to do anything about it. Then he'd make that boss character do this thing over and over and over in some vain attempt to make the game seem more difficult.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I just won PES 6 on PC off Ebay, Do you play PS2 or PC PES 6? If PC could you send the links to the option file and gameplay patches, also is there instructions on what you need to do?
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PC of course. The patch is huge, every team has his chants, stadiums and latest kits.

Here the thread with links and details.

http://www.evo-web.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66099

Soon it will be a torrent, but you have a lot of mirrors for download it.


pes4lyfe said:
master league works?

I for some reason though PES3 and PES5 wer emuch better than Pes6.

Something about PES6 feels a bit crappy not same as PES1-5.
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Master league works OK. The difficulty is so raised and challenging, that for the first time in my life playing PES i played twice on Division 2 :P

And with this patch the gameplay changed is a mixture between PES 5 and 6, btw on PES5 there was a lot of foul, referee lived with the whistle in his mouth.

I have nothing more to say that you guys test the game by your own. :COOL:
 
I do wonder though if that defender had been Vidic would he have blocked the shot? Was it someone like Valeny? Is this just a way of creating a difference between top defenders and crap ones?
 
Thespeedster84 said:
I am bored with the dribbling mechanic tbh.. the way the ball sticks to the feet, the way the player turn. The joy of wrongfoot a defender is missing.
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You CAN wrong foot the defenders now and again but it feels like the game just lets you do it randomly rather than due to any kind of real skill on your part. Most of the time the defender will stick out a leg and take the ball from you though. Things like balance, agility, body shape and defensive ability have no bearing on these matters when the AI is defending.

Not that it matters anyway, even when you DO manage to skin a defender he merely recovers in super quick time and chases you down to tackle you again no matter how quick you are. Either that or one of the other 4 defenders you have surrounding you at all times will take the ball from you instead.

It's a big problem for me in this game, the feeling that sometimes the AI just allows you to get the better of it. It's obvious scripting in the players favour, which is just as bad as obvious scripting in the AI's favour really as it breaks the illusion of being involved in a real game of football.

Mind you, it probably only lets you win for a while just so it can mount a miraculous 90th minute comeback and leave you absolutely fizzing. AGAIN.

:P
 
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Ern Dog said:
I do wonder though if that defender had been Vidic would he have blocked the shot? Was it someone like Valeny? Is this just a way of creating a difference between top defenders and crap ones?
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Perhaps, but I doubt it. Even if this was the case, it'd take a pretty messed up game to decide that only world class defenders are capable of trying to intercept a soft deflection as it rolls into the net. That said, I don't know who the defender was, but he was playing for Malaga so he can't be as bad as Valeny by a long shot!
 
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Beside the stupid deflection and with all respect, but i think you had a very good chance to win the ball after the terrible first touch of the opponent player. The ball was jumping away from his feet half a mile and with a quick r2 tap and running in the direction where the ball was rolling/jumping you should win the battle here.

The ball was rolling diagonal up right and your player was running diagonal up left and that was the reason why your player couldn't make a decent first touch too. Move your player in the direction the ball was rolling and he will give you a way better first touch.

Just look at the situation and think about it a second. What would happen in real life? How would a good player react after the bad first touch of the opponent? He would move his body between the ball an the opponent and he would move with the direction of the ball. I bet in this situation you will win the ball almost every time if you move your player in the direction the ball is rolling and not in the opposite direction. But you was just rushing into the other player.

After the first situation you make another questionable move by not defending the quick pass and go. The attacker is running right in your back and you are not covering the passing line. It was absolutely clear that this pass would come next.

I don't think it was cheating. Really not. I do believe there are some goals you can't defend but not this one.
 
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Could we hope that they will remove cheating on Top Player and Superstar levels with 1.3 patch?
i heard it is an online only patch...
 
You could examine any goal ever scored and find a way it could of been stopped. The point is his defender purposely did not stop the ball from going in, the AI pulled him back and let it go in, its obvious cheating. Well maybe it isnt but at the very least its rubbish AI, the sort that wouldnt of looked out of place 10 years ago.
 
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Ern Dog said:
You could examine any goal ever scored and find a way it could of been stopped. The point is his defender purposely did not stop the ball from going in, the AI pulled him back and let it go in, its obvious cheating. Well maybe it isnt but at the very least its rubbish AI, the sort that wouldnt of looked out of place 10 years ago.
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Yes, you are right. The deflection and the reaction of the defender was very poor / stupid. End of the story.

But i think the hole situation was caused by his unlucky defending and he could probably avoid it. But Yes, the reaction of the defender was stupid/rubbish. No doubt.
 
Luckily I have still PES 5 for xbox, playing it now on xbox360. Sure the nextgen-features like free passing, 360-degree-movement... are sorely missing and it feels a bit too fast but and this is very important to me, I feel not cheated at all while playing it, the wins and losses are deserved, feels great.:APPLAUD:
 
For a laugh I tried online for the first time, all I can say is WOW. That was utter shit. I'd heard how crap it was but I never imagined it was that bad. It reminded me of PES2008 and 2009 online.

- One hundred mile an hour football
- My opponent went straight for Real Madrid and spent the entire match spamming through passes to Ronaldo and using him to sprint 50-60 yards at a time.
- my opponent double pressed at full sprint speed all match, won the ball, sprinted some more.

I actually won the game 4-2 but I can't remember one instance where the play took place in midfield. It was sprint, sprint, raking long pass, cross. Over and over again.

After trying that little experiment I hastily went back to offline and it opened my eyes to the offline game's deficiencies even more. The 'fluid' motion and speed of the players is the cause for the game being a sprint, counter attack fest both offline and online. We all moaned about the catch up in PES2011 but it served the purpose of forcing you to play your way through defences with passing football, the need to shield was greater, as was the need to wait for team mate support. In one foul swoop Konami blew all that away. PES2012 feels like a fast, arcade type game with no sense of player inertia, no sense of stamina or physical limitation. I tried playing offline like that guy played online against me and you know what, I carved open the CPU over and over - by being as direct, fast and countr attacking as I could. And it worked.

For the third time of saying, that's me done with the game. It doesn't replicate the flow of a real match in any way. The sheer number if people on here who describe offline matches that frequently seem to end in crazy scores of 4-4, 5-4 etc is proof that the game has no sense of midfield battles at all. The game is dominated by fast counter after another, with little in between. What a shambles they've made of their game this year.
 
LTFC said:
For a laugh I tried online for the first time, all I can say is WOW. That was utter shit. I'd heard how crap it was but I never imagined it was that bad. It reminded me of PES2008 and 2009 online.

- One hundred mile an hour football
- My opponent went straight for Real Madrid and spent the entire match spamming through passes to Ronaldo and using him to sprint 50-60 yards at a time.
- my opponent double pressed at full sprint speed all match, won the ball, sprinted some more.

I actually won the game 4-2 but I can't remember one instance where the play took place in midfield. It was sprint, sprint, raking long pass, cross. Over and over again.

After trying that little experiment I hastily went back to offline and it opened my eyes to the offline game's deficiencies even more. The 'fluid' motion and speed of the players is the cause for the game being a sprint, counter attack fest both offline and online. We all moaned about the catch up in PES2011 but it served the purpose of forcing you to play your way through defences with passing football, the need to shield was greater, as was the need to wait for team mate support. In one foul swoop Konami blew all that away. PES2012 feels like a fast, arcade type game with no sense of player inertia, no sense of stamina or physical limitation. I tried playing offline like that guy played online against me and you know what, I carved open the CPU over and over - by being as direct, fast and countr attacking as I could. And it worked.

For the third time of saying, that's me done with the game. It doesn't replicate the flow of a real match in any way. The sheer number if people on here who describe offline matches that frequently seem to end in crazy scores of 4-4, 5-4 etc is proof that the game has no sense of midfield battles at all. The game is dominated by fast counter after another, with little in between. What a shambles they've made of their game this year.
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Online to me feels like a totally different game, even worse than PES 2008 i reckon which i thought would never be possible.

I think it's time to face the music that Konami dont know how to make a AAA football game now the PS2 era is over. (well i guess it's not over for Konami as they are still churning out PS2 games lol)
 
LTFC said:
For a laugh I tried online for the first time, all I can say is WOW. That was utter shit. I'd heard how crap it was but I never imagined it was that bad. It reminded me of PES2008 and 2009 online.

- One hundred mile an hour football
- My opponent went straight for Real Madrid and spent the entire match spamming through passes to Ronaldo and using him to sprint 50-60 yards at a time.
- my opponent double pressed at full sprint speed all match, won the ball, sprinted some more.

I actually won the game 4-2 but I can't remember one instance where the play took place in midfield. It was sprint, sprint, raking long pass, cross. Over and over again.

After trying that little experiment I hastily went back to offline and it opened my eyes to the offline game's deficiencies even more. The 'fluid' motion and speed of the players is the cause for the game being a sprint, counter attack fest both offline and online. We all moaned about the catch up in PES2011 but it served the purpose of forcing you to play your way through defences with passing football, the need to shield was greater, as was the need to wait for team mate support. In one foul swoop Konami blew all that away. PES2012 feels like a fast, arcade type game with no sense of player inertia, no sense of stamina or physical limitation. I tried playing offline like that guy played online against me and you know what, I carved open the CPU over and over - by being as direct, fast and countr attacking as I could. And it worked.

For the third time of saying, that's me done with the game. It doesn't replicate the flow of a real match in any way. The sheer number if people on here who describe offline matches that frequently seem to end in crazy scores of 4-4, 5-4 etc is proof that the game has no sense of midfield battles at all. The game is dominated by fast counter after another, with little in between. What a shambles they've made of their game this year.
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totally agree .Konami made PES2012 play like fifa11
Its al about running on the wing then simply tap O for an easy cross that will always go to the striker like a magnet

I think its time for konami to change PES staff as they can't
make a good football game for more than 5 years except PES 2011 which was their best product on PS3 despite the flaws
 
LT have you ever played a footy game online that wasnt like that? That is how the common man likes to play and that is who the game is built for.
 
LTFC said:
... We all moaned about the catch up in PES2011 but it served the purpose of forcing you to play your way through defences with passing football, the need to shield was greater, as was the need to wait for team mate support. In one foul swoop Konami blew all that away. PES2012 feels like a fast, arcade type game with no sense of player inertia, no sense of stamina or physical limitation. I tried playing offline like that guy played online against me and you know what, I carved open the CPU over and over - by being as direct, fast and countr attacking as I could. And it worked...
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The problem is not that the catch-up-feature/bug was taken out, the problem is that Konami forgot to implement a serious two-tiered-stamina/short breath-system. In real life there are players that can run really fast, even with ball, and humiliate defenders like for example Ronaldo but they can't do it very often in a match, maybe twice or three times.

In between they need their time to get back their stamina and breath and even when they have it back the opponent team has already adapted to the danger.
 
Long time lurker here. Thought I needed to express my feelings on what must be the most frustrating PES ever (and that is really saying something!)

IMHO it is nearly a fantastic game - so near and yet so very far away.

Ok, so we all know that the animations are not up to scratch for this gen of technical hardware. The thing is, we probably don't even care about that so much as long as the core gameplay respresents the game we all love well.

For me, the game breakers that stop this PES being my favourite ever:

- Refs: they treat football like a non contact sport. I have given penalties away for simply holding run near an opposition player. They blow for fouls every 5-10 seconds, no matter how innocous the incident.

- Stats: Konami so obviously favour the big/name teams that it is beyond a joke.
Worse still, the bigger the team the more exaggerated the stats are. Barca and R.Madrid's stats are just ridiculous in their superhuman ratings. Not only that, but most players stats are innaccurate and laughable - it seems like they dont even watch football regularly.

- Speed: the game needs to be slowed down a bit. If we are given speed options at least also give us the option to keep the ball physics realistic - the ball should not slow down as much as the players running speed.

And the most important game breaker that frustrates us all so much:

- Scripting
This is the worst I have ever encountered on any PES. The scripting is so obvious and clear that it is insulting to the player.
I only really play online and the nature of the CPU is clear. It cheats in favour of one of the teams, and will sometimes switch to favouring the other mid-match. It also seems to favour the lower rated player the vast majority of the time.

There are games where no matter how well you play, your strikers are incapable of hitting the target (even if on red arrow form).

There are games where you will storm into the lead by a few goals only for a miraculous comeback to occur that is completely out of your hands. I went 3-0 up against an online opponent, only to lose 4-3 with all of their goals as a result of my defenders either being moved out of position by the CPU or if they were in position, the ball physically passing through the defenders bodies and conveniently into the path of the opposition striker.

If they can sort out the above issues, maybe the game can be great again but these are game breakers and all of them have been present in every version of PES this gen.

The problem is, as others have noted in this thread, Konami's code seems to be intrinsically reliant on scripting of the match. If that is the case, they need to start from scratch - which is something they have seemed worryingly reluctant to do.

As for FIFA, I play it with mates casually sometimes and I would never want to play it anymore than that. It seems lifeless to me, once you get past all the smoke and mirrors. I personally think that the licensing and official commentary etc really wins people over more than the game play which is predictable and zombie-like IMHO.
 
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