The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[arthurm]

I only really play online and the nature of the CPU is clear. It cheats in favour of one of the teams, and will sometimes switch to favouring the other mid-match. It also seems to favour the lower rated player the vast majority of the time.

There are games where no matter how well you play, your strikers are incapable of hitting the target (even if on red arrow form).

There are games where you will storm into the lead by a few goals only for a miraculous comeback to occur that is completely out of your hands. I went 3-0 up against an online opponent, only to lose 4-3 with all of their goals as a result of my defenders either being moved out of position by the CPU or if they were in position, the ball physically passing through the defenders bodies and conveniently into the path of the opposition striker.

Glad to finally see someone else mention the scripting in human v human matches. I haven't even played PES2012 online (PES2011 online was fucking tragic and every review suggested 2012 was no better, so I haven't bothered trying it).

I have played FIFA online extensively over the past few years and the level of bias (scripting) in favour of one team over the other is ridiculous. Even 11 v 11 humans, where you'd hope it might be purely down to human skill, the AI engine pollutes the entire experience with its overbearing influence, totally favouring one team over another. It can often switch at half time, too, where you can be given all the bias in the 1st half (especially if you score first, you then get all the "luck"), but 2nd half, suddenly the opposition teams cannot misplace a pass and provided they press shoot when they're within 30 yards, a goal will be forthcoming. Meantime, your strikers, who were ruthless in the 1st half, now cannot even tap into an open goal from 6 yards.

No surprise to hear that PES does the same sort of thing. Afterall, Seabass invented this sort of scripted football and EA copied him.

Badly need a new developer to come onto the scene and overhaul this stagnant genre. Football is so popular, there's a killing to be made if someone else can get it right. I don't think either Konami or EA will ever make any real progress with their current common philosophy.

 

[jpf7]

Badly need a new developer to come onto the scene and overhaul this stagnant genre. Football is so popular, there's a killing to be made if someone else can get it right. I don't think either Konami or EA will ever make any real progress with their current common philosophy.

I completely agree that a new developer is needed to rejuvinate the football game genre. I would favour a european based developer (not Canadians or Japanese development companies) but they would need deep pockets.

I think development cycles need to be longer, a game every 2-3 years, with patches to keep the teams/stats/transfers up to date during that time. This would lead to better development over a longer period of time but hey the companies will go mental that they cant fleece everyone every single year. Charging for the patch updates could be a way around this maybe.

A the moment, a game a year is just a way for EA & Konami to keep filling their pockets and offering small superficial changes to the core game engines.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

To be honest guys, you seem to be over-analyising this in my opinion. Where do you draw the line ? And where do we stop being over-analytical ? Just play the game and enjoy it for what it is, and what it does right. Rather then trying to pick it to pieces and in turn ruining the experience.

I'm into my 5th League season with PEEL, and I've never thought once about this scripting between teams online until very recently. I prefer to buy into the random philosophy of football, and what happens between two human players, is what it is. Swings and roundabouts, good luck/bad luck, run of the green, the play of the pitch, in the script, whatever. Those are all real terms used in real football. It is what it is. I enjoy the game online incredibly, and alot of that will be down to the fact I'm not over-analyising. Offline is a different story.

 

[Shikashi]

Of course you need good AI, when you play online your only controlling 1 player of 11...you NEED AI for the other 10 players in your team.

Not with 11 Virtual Pros you don't. The majority of FIFA players are either on Head to Head matches or Pro Ranked Matches.
Long gone are the days of playing against a CPU in Master League.

The problem is, as others have noted in this thread, Konami's code seems to be intrinsically reliant on scripting of the match. If that is the case, they need to start from scratch - which is something they have seemed worryingly reluctant to do.

That's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[Ern Dog]

A certain amount of scripting is needed though to recreate real football. How many times have you seen a game where one team is really on top for 15 - 20 mins mins, having all the possession, creating loads of chances but unable to take one. Then the opposition will get a corner from their first attack and score? It happens all the time. You just have to shake your head and say "thats football". But when it happens in PES we throw our controllers across the room and curse the game. I do think they could try and hide the scripting a bit better or maybe tone it down a bit, but I would never want a football game without it, sounds boring to me.

 

[Messiah Ban Victim]

When you have 22 virtual players, 2 virtual goals and 1 virtual ball. Then you dont need to wright scripts that favour the other team. No, when we start to play, the match itself will wright his own script. It depends on what happens, and what choises are being made. How fast he see chances, how good he is at position play. Whast skills he has in defending and attacking, etc etc. All stuff controlled by us.


Thats football.

Not making it exciting when i go 2-0 up, that suddenly its like i cannot play the game anymore, oppenent can run through myb body, 100% off the weird deflections go to opponent, referee suddenly fucks me in the ass, my players cant do shit etc etc.

Pes has always been scripted. Thats why i dont buy it anymore.

Scripting vs the CPU, ok, when its needed to make it exciting, i still hate it, but i understand it.

Scripting online in 1 on 1 games is unacceptable!!!


When someone is clearly better then me, and we have same skilled teams, i want to get hammered, not win by 2-1 with 2 ugly goals and my oppponent playing wonderful football but he cant score from 5 feet for open goal.

 

[arthurm]

When you have 22 virtual players, 2 virtual goals and 1 virtual ball. Then you dont need to wright scripts that favour the other team. No, when we start to play, the match itself will wright his own script. It depends on what happens, and what choises are being made. How fast he see chances, how good he is at position play. Whast skills he has in defending and attacking, etc etc. All stuff controlled by us.


Thats football.

Not making it exciting when i go 2-0 up, that suddenly its like i cannot play the game anymore, oppenent can run through myb body, 100% off the weird deflections go to opponent, referee suddenly fucks me in the ass, my players cant do shit etc etc.

Pes has always been scripted. Thats why i dont buy it anymore.

Scripting vs the CPU, ok, when its needed to make it exciting, i still hate it, but i understand it.

Scripting online in 1 on 1 games is unacceptable!!!


When someone is clearly better then me, and we have same skilled teams, i want to get hammered, not win by 2-1 with 2 ugly goals and my oppponent playing wonderful football but he cant score from 5 feet for open goal.

Bang on, my good man.

 

[rizface]

For people that complain about scripting by the cpu, do you experience this in ML mode? Cup mode? or exhibition mode?

To me scripting/catch-up and rubberband AI kills a good sports game. What is the point of building a good 2-0 lead only to have cheap goals in the last 10 minutes by the cpu?

So I do realize the significance of this problem. I have heard of this problem in past PES going back to PES 5 or earlier and people complained heavily their ML campaigns, but I never played PES outside of exhibition mode. I just like to play using all the teams in the game and to be honest, I have never felt scripting in the history of PES in the exhibition mode. Just today , i beat Denmark using Holland 3-0 and their offense was stifled from the first minute till the last.

If you complain about CPU scripting, please try playing 4-5 games on exhibition matches and see if there is rubberband/scripting AI by the CPU, especially if you have gained a 2 goal lead at least.

Take care....

 

[Ameppe]

scripting is not there in exhibition mode, it's definitely there in Master League, offline and online

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

LT have you ever played a footy game online that wasnt like that? That is how the common man likes to play and that is who the game is built for.

I've barely played an online football game that wasnt like this, no, but this time around it's so much more pronounced. The game I played literally saw both teams able to sprint 60-70 yards with top players like Ronaldo. It made the game look nothing like football at all. The mechanics of the whole game are unbalanced. The game allows people the choice to exploit it like this. Maybe like you say, it's catering for people who like that sort of thing, maybe Knoami really haven't a clue any more.

Shame is, it opened my eyes to the offline side of the game too, even offline virtually bypasses midfield play. The fact that the AI never has anyone actually playing in midfield doesn't help though!

 

[jpf7]

I think the scripting is less dominant in exhibition mode but its still there.

My god the stats of Barca & R.Madrid break the game just by themselves!

Now Fabregas plays for Barca,Konami have boosted him up to 95. For no other reason than the club he has signed for. They don't even try to hide their bias.

 

[kouroux]

I stopped playing it for a while hoping that I am forget about the glaring issues of the game.How have they fucked up the shooting ? In the demo 1 it was close to perfection but in the retail game ... Why would they do such a retarded thing ? Can someone explain it to me ?é

 

[Ern Dog]

I've barely played an online football game that wasnt like this, no, but this time around it's so much more pronounced. The game I played literally saw both teams able to sprint 60-70 yards with top players like Ronaldo. It made the game look nothing like football at all. The mechanics of the whole game are unbalanced. The game allows people the choice to exploit it like this. Maybe like you say, it's catering for people who like that sort of thing, maybe Knoami really haven't a clue any more.

Shame is, it opened my eyes to the offline side of the game too, even offline virtually bypasses midfield play. The fact that the AI never has anyone actually playing in midfield doesn't help though!

Have you seen this video LT? This is the way PES should be played.

PES2012å月份精彩进çƒé›†é”¦ - 视频 - 优酷视频 - 在线观看

 

[jpf7]

That video turned my stomach. I see enough glitchy Real Madrid goals playing online.

 

[arthurm]

Have you seen this video LT? This is the way PES should be played.

PES2012å月份精彩进çƒé›†é”¦ - 视频 - 优酷视频 - 在线观看

That was just like watching Stoke v Blackburn in real life.

Unfortunately, that's how the cpu plays, even when the cpu is Woodcrow Blackhearts or some such team.

 

[rizface]

I don't think there is any scripting at all in the game if you play exhibition mode. netherlands vs germany just now i was killed 3-0 and then had a 0-0 draw with Scotland....then played England and demolished them 5-1. The game with England was scoreless at halftime with England playing better. But in the 2nd half, class strikes by the Dutch and a lucky bounce here and there....5-1 scoreline. when the game was 3-1, I stayed back, and countered attack....England's chances were reduced as i parked the bus, and used the Dutch wing speed to exploit the counter.

I just don't see nor feel the script.....professional level, 0 pass assistance 1.02 patch, EXHIBITION MODE

 

[Northzzz]

I don't think there is any scripting at all in the game if you play exhibition mode. netherlands vs germany just now i was killed 3-0 and then had a 0-0 draw with Scotland....then played England and demolished them 5-1. The game with England was scoreless at halftime with England playing better. But in the 2nd half, class strikes by the Dutch and a lucky bounce here and there....5-1 scoreline. when the game was 3-1, I stayed back, and countered attack....England's chances were reduced as i parked the bus, and used the Dutch wing speed to exploit the counter.

I just don't see nor feel the script.....professional level, 0 pass assistance 1.02 patch, EXHIBITION MODE

You're right. It's enforced in ML or cup competitions much much worse than in exhibition matches. It's Konami's way of making the game harder but in truth it just leads to frustration.

 

[rizface]

^^^

it is idiotic that they would make the logic different in ML/Cup than in exhibitions. It's not like it is easy in exh mode especially on pro and Top player. Hard but fair....

 

[P34SEMM]

The game that's schizophrenic pes12 was back tonight. Played 3 games and hated them all.
Really feels like a chore to play it.
I haven't played since Wednesday and I haven't missed it.
Usual problems games just a horrible mess.

 

[Me!TheRaven]

A new developper wouldn´t need deep pockets per se. THIS really is the time for a new "game". No money for licenses or biased/forced stats. Just a realistic physics engine, realistic gamespeed, realistic vibrant sights and sounds, and enough slots/teams/cups/players for THIS great community who loves football to take care of. Simple?

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

You could examine any goal ever scored and find a way it could of been stopped. The point is his defender purposely did not stop the ball from going in, the AI pulled him back and let it go in, its obvious cheating. Well maybe it isnt but at the very least its rubbish AI, the sort that wouldnt of looked out of place 10 years ago.

It's hard to say on that one though. It's in slow motion. What has happened is the player's been wrong footed with a deflection and the animation in slow motion looks like he is letting the ball go past him. And someone was right, it could be the player's resposniveness stat that is too low and it looks bad. You even notice the commentators mentioning responsiveness on keepers sometimes so it must be a part of the problem.

I think the deflection is the bigger of the 2 evils. I copped a goal like that last week.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

A new developper wouldn´t need deep pockets per se. THIS really is the time for a new "game". No money for licenses or biased/forced stats. Just a realistic physics engine, realistic gamespeed, realistic vibrant sights and sounds, and enough slots/teams/cups/players for THIS great community who loves football to take care of. Simple?

Yeah I'd rather they gave us a simple and powerful editing tool and enough slots so we could create the league structures and kits easily - rather than myPES.

 

[P34SEMM]

Scored a real stupid goal last night.
Was one on one with keeper and placed it bottom left. It didn't go there of course it went straight at the keeper. It bounced of his groin and feel to my player who taped it in.

I looked at the replay as I wanted to see why the keeper couldn't save a shot right at him from 2 yards. What I saw amazed me. What actually happened is the ball didn't bounce of his groin but it went through him and came out his back.

Terrible.

 

[Luisao82]

I don't think people turn to FIFA because of cheating. FIFA cheats you not less, for example on World Glass and Legendary they read every slide tackle you are going to make. Stats doesn't matter at all in FIFA too if you play on a higher level.

True!


As for people not being happy with the game, I just have to say this:
- quit the PS3 version (if you're playing it). It's a fail.
- try the PC version, with the latest official patch 1.02, PESEDIT/PSD patch and th latest Jenkey's Gameplay Patch.

I've been playing for over 150 games now (Master League), and I haven't had much to complain about. With some minor flaws, it's one of the most captivating and varied PES games ever (gameplay/AI).


Just follow my tips.

 

[P34SEMM]

@Luisao - so everyone should buy a PC just for this game? Not everyone has £££ in the bank to "ditch" a console and buy a PC.

Whats frustrating is that there is a good game in there somewhere but its bogged down by too many flaws. If Konami dont fix the shooting in the next patch then they must be blind. Its awful. You never know what shot you are going to get and also where its going to go.

 

[pj_puttz]

I had a quick game of BAL on PES 2012 at the weekend there and despite the usual problems of weak, inconsistent shooting and moronic AI this also happened:

One of my team mates picked up the ball just over the half way line and became locked into the sideways dribble animation.

He sideways dribbled, unchallenged, all the way back to our own 18 yard box and just kept on going like some demented half man half crab until he carried the ball straight out of play.

It was then a corner to the AI team. You can guess what happened next cant you?

I laughed for about 2 seconds then I just shook my head and powered down the PS3.

 

[jpf7]

I have to say,if you play online, playing friendly matches on top player difficulty and green form seems to provide a much better experience. Scripting is much less noticeable, it feels more like offline exhibition 1v1 matches.

You still have to put up with Messi and Ronaldo being un-tackle-able and scoring with every single shot though.
Same goes for not being able to keep up with or tackle anyone with the speed merchant card (Arshavin for example).

It is however much better than ranked/quick matches - it seems teams AI is especially stupid on ranked. The scripting is at its most noticeable on ranked match by far.

 

[Northzzz]

Something that just hit me about playing online. Surely Konami's default stats ruin online. A ton of them just being plain wrong/stupidly conceived. You alluded to the Arshavin example and he is definitely somebody who i went in and toned his stats down a bit when i first got the game.

 

[Northzzz]

True!


As for people not being happy with the game, I just have to say this:
- quit the PS3 version (if you're playing it). It's a fail.
- try the PC version, with the latest official patch 1.02, PESEDIT/PSD patch and th latest Jenkey's Gameplay Patch.

I do appreciate that not everybody has the money to buy a PC but i have to agree. Honestly i just wouldn't bother with this game if i had to play it on consoles. I hardly think it's fantastic with PC mods either as they really don't solve that many of the fundmanetal issues at all but it's at least twice as good and half as frustrating to play when you can turn scripting off and alter the physics and speed of the game.

 

[Keith Houchen]

it's at least twice as good and half as frustrating to play when you can turn scripting off and alter the physics and speed of the game.

I thought the guy who made that patch for the PC version included that 'disable scripts' option as a joke? It's a jest on the community, and something of a placebo button, surely? There's no way he burrowed that deeply into the source code. A week or two ago I read one of the PC enthusiasts---not sure who---say that the patch introduced the 'keeper swinging off the bar' animation as well, which it certainly didn't.