Flaw3d Genius
Banned
The insane sales for Fifa say the vast majority of PES players have turned to Fifa or bought it as well as PES.
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The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread
- Thread starter priskinsprick
- Start date
The insane sales for Fifa say the vast majority of PES players have turned to Fifa or bought it as well as PES.
Messiah Ban Victim
Non-League
- 21 August 2011
Maybe you are right, and i am in the minority. But i read on alot of forums that pes players tried fifa and they just dont like it.
But you are probably right looking at sales figures that the last groupe maybe is not that big.
But you are probably right looking at sales figures that the last groupe maybe is not that big.
Me!TheRaven
League 2
- 28 April 2004
I for one have both, always have had, since 08. Fifa has wonderful things, PES also, but in the long run neither one has what it takes to keep me interested offline. Online ranked is a far cry from football simulation and sportsmanship, and yes , Pes still has it when you play a friend and suck them beers down. But it IS wearing thin nowadays. The editing, the patch or no patch, the animations, the acceptance of them, the NokamiHandicapHappyHour, the settings, and so on... are too much to bear. This is the 21st century, videogames are peaking, and yet Football still is badly represented and sold. On a side note, Master League is no more an option for me. Had the most horrific games i can remember in any videogame. Playing 15 minutes, superstar,0 pass, -2 speed, 16-4 resolution lcd, had the cherry on the icing vs Porto( 2nd season Benfica), winning 3-0 at half time, went to loose 7-6(??!!!),thanks to seven(????!!!!)individual runs by Varela( not Hulk?????!!!!),where 4 of them even had him rounding my keeper for superior head pissing.At that point, smashed my SECOND xbox controller of the week, and sweared to STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THAT JOKE NOKAMI made out of MASTER LEAGUE. Won´t go that way again , for the sake of my sanity and wallet.
That's interesting to me as it reminded me of the fact that, even back in the so-called "good ole days" of PES (ie. up to PES6 on PS2 in 2007), the cpu cheating enraged me so much that I found myself smashing controllers, probably 4 or 5 of them over the years.
Like many people, I stopped playing PES in 2008 when it moved to next-gen as FIFA08 was much better (it was better largely because PES was so bad, not because FIFA was actually particularly good). However, despite its clear shortcomings and cpu cheating, I never felt any rage with FIFA's cpu cheating, perhaps because the FIFA gameplay against the cpu was so dull and repetitive that I didn't play career mode long enough to care.
However, having bought PES2012 and tried master league for the first time since 2007, the rage was very quickly back and I did actually find myself throwing the controller to the floor (luckily it didn't break). No other game has ever brought out such negative emotions in me, and it's clear it's not just me that is affected by it in this way.
There is something particularly rotten about a game that engenders such bad emotions. I think I should follow your example and stop it playing altogether.
Ipswich69
Banned
- 25 July 2011
@ Srider, Well said.
Me!TheRaven
League 2
- 28 April 2004
It was unbearable, and i lost so many good games in DEMO 2, never feeling cheated so blatantly. UNBEARABLE. Inexcusable, Konami, when the right balance seemed achieved with demo 2, we get this retail piece of steaming s***, defying the user´s intelligence.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Make sure your playing 1.00, it's not quite as good as demo 2 but it's very close and is far better than 1.02.
I disagree. Fifa 08 was a pretty good game for its time, it wasn't perfect but it was pretty good. It required slow and patient build up and more often than not it was about skill rather than luck. Every single person i know didn't like it because you 'couldn't get past players easily'. To me that was a good thing because it required more thinking than the just run past everybody we have seen in the successive iterations of that series. Something not really seen in football games since Fifa 2008 and PES 5. I remember that i could easily hold my own online in that game with lesser teams against top sides too so it suggests there was a decent balance...probably.
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Players just have absolutely no awareness of the ball. Not unless you get that tethered to a string effect when they seem on rails and react. I just find players seem so to have no knowledge of where the ball is especially when it is loose. It just leads to players looking like they don't know what the hell they're doing and reacting in really odd looking ways when you try to take manual control of them to get them to react. It halts any kind of flow the game may even hint upon. The severity of this fluctuates from game to game it must be said. It leads to a pretty inconsistent experience all round.
In addition. I'm really sick and tired of trying to pass to one player about 5-10 yards away and the computer thinking i'm trying to pass to another about 25 yards away. You know the tethered to a string feeling you get in such a situation. It leads to the other player running to come and get the ball when it'd be a lot easier for the guy 5 yards away to actually react to it considering it's far closer to him. It's far too basic. It's just so undynamic. It's why you sometimes get those ridiculous offside decisions where the ball doesn't even go near the player who is offside but because the computer has decided they are the one player you were passing to it deems them to be in play and reacting despite them really not interfering with play at all.
Also why are through balls so useless? They seem to always be over-hit or under-hit, rarely ever falling between these two lines. It is basically impossible to play a killer through ball because the defenders will always react quicker than the striker too. The attacker is never able to cover ground if he's behind the defender and he always has to be behind a defender otherwise he'll be offside. Couple this with attackers sheer unwillingness to run in this game (seriously attackers in this game don't make forward expectant forward runs of their own free will ever) it means that through balls are generally pointless unless you're playing it into acres of space. Mostly that means through balls are only ever good for hitting balls down the wing, rarely ever through the middle.
The CPU misses 95% of 1 v 1's in the box if you bring your keeper out too. The AI isn't intelligent at all, they always hit it right at them instead of a) trying to place it by shooting early or b) taking it round him. I have to complain about that because it's just so damn ridiculous. You'd think on professional difficulty the CPU AI wouldn't have such issues.
In addition. I'm really sick and tired of trying to pass to one player about 5-10 yards away and the computer thinking i'm trying to pass to another about 25 yards away. You know the tethered to a string feeling you get in such a situation. It leads to the other player running to come and get the ball when it'd be a lot easier for the guy 5 yards away to actually react to it considering it's far closer to him. It's far too basic. It's just so undynamic. It's why you sometimes get those ridiculous offside decisions where the ball doesn't even go near the player who is offside but because the computer has decided they are the one player you were passing to it deems them to be in play and reacting despite them really not interfering with play at all.
Also why are through balls so useless? They seem to always be over-hit or under-hit, rarely ever falling between these two lines. It is basically impossible to play a killer through ball because the defenders will always react quicker than the striker too. The attacker is never able to cover ground if he's behind the defender and he always has to be behind a defender otherwise he'll be offside. Couple this with attackers sheer unwillingness to run in this game (seriously attackers in this game don't make forward expectant forward runs of their own free will ever) it means that through balls are generally pointless unless you're playing it into acres of space. Mostly that means through balls are only ever good for hitting balls down the wing, rarely ever through the middle.
The CPU misses 95% of 1 v 1's in the box if you bring your keeper out too. The AI isn't intelligent at all, they always hit it right at them instead of a) trying to place it by shooting early or b) taking it round him. I have to complain about that because it's just so damn ridiculous. You'd think on professional difficulty the CPU AI wouldn't have such issues.
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Me!TheRaven
League 2
- 28 April 2004
Oh, i´m sure Flawe3d!!!! Spent the last month patching and unpatching the hell out of the game, excusing so much crap because of it, settling on the one that simply gave me a better ball physics. One off games, sometimes, but competitions in this game are pure torture. Maybe i´ll just DEMO 2 the whole time...
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Surprised to hear your comments on the 1 v 1. I often get skinned where the striker takes it around my keeper and gets a clean shot on goal. You seem to have it the other way around.
I think the forward runs are linked to players trying to stay onsinde more. It's easier to get a run down the wing than it is down the guts. Sometimes you have to play a through ball and let your striker fight it out 1 v 1 with the defender.
The loose balls issue - I know what you mean. Could be placebo but I think it might be less/more noticeable depending on your pass assistance settings.
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
Yesterday, played with mates. Yeah i could understand why some moan about the shooting in terms of direction 
Dribbling is more like a "gaming fun" rather than "footballing satisfaction"
I think PES series in next gen is suffering the outcomes of having limited technical capabilities from what it seems, imo (e.g animation engine, mocap etc)
Dribbling is more like a "gaming fun" rather than "footballing satisfaction"
I think PES series in next gen is suffering the outcomes of having limited technical capabilities from what it seems, imo (e.g animation engine, mocap etc)
I put the game on for the first time in a few weeks on Saturday morning. I managed to grind my way through 3 games of my Master League campaign then I switched it off. It wont be back on again for the forseeable future.
I just dont get any enjoyment whatsoever from playing PES 2012. I can handle a football game being frustrating at times but I cant forgive it for being broken and just downright dull.
The final straw came from something many claim does not happen in PES 2012. I tried to put a shot into the far right hand bottom corner and despite me firmly pressing up and putting a little power on it my player smashed the ball into the top corner at the near post. The goal looked great, any striker would have been proud of it, but it wasn't MY goal because I didn't want it to go there! It more or less had NOTHING to do with me, I pressed the shoot button and Konami did the rest.
Nearly ALL of the problems mentioned on these pages manifested themselves in just 3 games of PES 2012 and that was enough for me to turn it off and put it away to gather dust again.
I cant believe I'm going to be without a football game to play on my PS3 for most of 2012. In fact I'm pretty damn pissed off about it.
I just dont get any enjoyment whatsoever from playing PES 2012. I can handle a football game being frustrating at times but I cant forgive it for being broken and just downright dull.
The final straw came from something many claim does not happen in PES 2012. I tried to put a shot into the far right hand bottom corner and despite me firmly pressing up and putting a little power on it my player smashed the ball into the top corner at the near post. The goal looked great, any striker would have been proud of it, but it wasn't MY goal because I didn't want it to go there! It more or less had NOTHING to do with me, I pressed the shoot button and Konami did the rest.
Nearly ALL of the problems mentioned on these pages manifested themselves in just 3 games of PES 2012 and that was enough for me to turn it off and put it away to gather dust again.
I cant believe I'm going to be without a football game to play on my PS3 for most of 2012. In fact I'm pretty damn pissed off about it.
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Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Me too. In fact I haven't touched any football game for the best part of a fortnight, instead I've been playing Mass Effect pretty much exclusively instead (it's old but I got it for a fiver!). I can't play more than a few matches without feeling bored and doing something else. Same goes for FIFA12. In my opinion FIFA is the better game this year but even that has something missing. I don't actually have any complaints or issues with that game, but something's missing as in PES. I can't put my finger on it, but both games feel like there's no variety. Both feel like a slog and a chore to play.
I might go back at some point and finish my PES2011 ML campaign that I'd abandoned when the PES2012 demos came out. But in the light of so many other games of absolute top quality, I can't see where I'll find the time. The football game genre is woefully behind other types of game right now.
Oops!
Edited!
That's how cynical I am, I'm already anticipating PES13 is going to be crap!
Yeah the players were at me after being dropped for one game due them being on a purple arrow too. "What am I meant to think of that? It's just not on!" I wish there was an option to tell them what I think of them! Twats!
Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
I think FIFA is missing randomness. But I mean randomness in a good way, not fully powering up a shot and aiming at the far corner and then the player delicately chips it straight over the keeper. For me everything in FIFA is too exact, it feels like I can hit the ball where I want every time. There are slightly wayward passes but I am unsure if thats my manual aiming or the game forcing error. The shooting totally lacks variation, the ball goes where I hit it every time as long as I'm not trying something ridiculous. Maybe I need to use non manual controls stop this?
That's a really interesting point actually, there has to be a balance between shots not going anywhere near where you want them to and shots going exactly where you want them to 100% of the time thus making it far too easy to score.
An element of "randomness" definitely has to be present in a football game but I'd rather the random events were the ball squeezing past the post I've aimed towards rather than the player blasting the ball in completely the opposite direction into the net. I'd rather miss on my own terms than score on Konami's.
The random effect of these things must be one of the hardest things to recreate about football. The problem is we want a game AND a sim and the two things sometimes just dont fit together.
We want to be in control but we dont want that 100% accuracy 100% of the time that Ern Dog mentions. On the other hand we hate scripting and the "on rails" feel that PES gives us. There has to be a balance somehow and if Konami would only stop pissing about removing things that work and replacing them with things that dont every year they may have found that balance by now.
In fact come to think of it they pretty much did have it almost sussed in the past but have lost it somewhere amidst their endless tinkering.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
What's really odd is that the older PS2 PES games felt miles more random despite being more on rails than the modern versions. Perhaps that random factor we all enjoyed so much wasn't actually that random at all.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
PS2 versions were heavily scripted, PES fans are constantly moaning that they dont want a scripted game, the thing is Konami are the masters of scripting the game and having it playing great ok sometimes it's over the top hollywood style but thats PES.
Konami are trying to please the fans rather than doing what they do best, the constant feedback from PESfan and WENB is having a major impact on the quality of the titles and not in a good way.
I find both games dull and repetitive, too. I agree with LTFC that FIFA is the better game but lacks something critical, it lacks something that makes me want to play it. All the matches against the cpu feel the same. The ball never really feels free, it feels like it's trapped in the AI engine. Even with passing error set high, the misplaced passes just go straight to an opposition player, not into space. It all feels too tight, neat, controlled, carefully contrived, rather than free and, as has been said, random. The cpu players all have perfect control, perfect first touch, perfect everything except you can now alter their passing and shooting error. Full power long passes don't go very far, and always end up scripted to a player, usually a cpu defender who brings it down with a perfect first touch. Yawn. Even multi-player online is clearly "scripted" - ie. heavy bias in "luck" favouring one team over the other to the point where there's just no point trying - if the bias is against you, there's little point playing on. People increasingly just start scoring OGs and running up pitch with the keeper, etc. as it's become a joke of a game. On-line 5v5 in FIFA09 used to be really good (at times), now it's carefully contrived/scritped nonsense and completely unrewarding.
Turning on PES, I genuinely feel more excited. It's closer to real football, but the sheer overbearing presence of the cpu scripts just kills all the fun. When the cpu just totally ignores its own stats whenever it needs to in order to script a goal, it may as well just have a giant hand come down from the heavens , pick the ball up and throw it into your net, then stick two fingers up at you. I don't mind losing, I want a game to be hard, but I don't want to be so blatantly cheated. I don't see any hope for this series on current gen. They're just generally pissing around now, not making any real progress, the AI seems as broken and unaware as ever, but most disappointing, they're still clinging to the same old scripting and cheating they've been using since the 1990s.
Turning on PES, I genuinely feel more excited. It's closer to real football, but the sheer overbearing presence of the cpu scripts just kills all the fun. When the cpu just totally ignores its own stats whenever it needs to in order to script a goal, it may as well just have a giant hand come down from the heavens , pick the ball up and throw it into your net, then stick two fingers up at you. I don't mind losing, I want a game to be hard, but I don't want to be so blatantly cheated. I don't see any hope for this series on current gen. They're just generally pissing around now, not making any real progress, the AI seems as broken and unaware as ever, but most disappointing, they're still clinging to the same old scripting and cheating they've been using since the 1990s.
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Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
I would love to see how FIFA would turn out if Seabass took over at EA. As much as I dislike PES this gen I feel its more to do with the constraints of its engine than its visionary. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Rutter & Seabass were to switch for a year, that would certainly show us where the problems lie.
lancers
League 1
I'm going to assume you have tried turning the shot and pass error sliders up. Other than that it is hard to program in randomness that everyone wouldn't complain about. I thought the demos for PES were decent but since it didn't have the camera angle I prefer there was no way I was going to plunk down 65 bucks since there were so many complaints.
Try turning the shot error up to 55 and see if you don't miss a few more shots.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Fifa would be a dream if it had the AI of PES Demo 2
PES would be a dream if it had Fifa's graphics, animations, licenses, fan chants/singing, commentary, presentation
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Fifa would be a dream if it had the AI of PES Demo 2
PES would be a dream if it had Fifa's graphics, animations, licenses, fan chants/singing, commentary, presentation
Which is why I always scratch my head about EA Sports. They have everything except the AI. Now they probably only need to make smallish changes to improve the gameplay by enough of a difference to make it noticeably better. Would be nice if they made it as good as PES but even they only got halfway there, it would be a massive improvement.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
Fifa lacks AI, player individuality, and randomness as described by Ern Dog
and to be honest those are really important for a great football game
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
I agree. I didn't say it would be perfect with good AI but I said it would improve the game more. If players were running off their own accord, you would have the chance to create goals differently. If you then made stats more relevant, the shooting wouldn't be so accurate and they could tone down the keepers a little.
For me, the way players turn is a big killer for me. I also laugh that they have made Messi the new cover boy but he looks anything but the best player in the world on FIFA. His real strengths can't be fully exploited on FIFA like they can on PES. I think their engine is too heavily biased towards strength and physicality.
Nothing comes close to old PES master league. Nothing in nextgen pes or FIFA...no modes brought the fun, addiction and enjoyemtn like old master league.
Since PEs5 tbh I feel like soemthign has been missing in my life...lmao..but 100% serious. Master league would occupy me 12 months per game since PS2 release.
Even things like seeing your mates master league team or playins master league team with yours etc...however just playing hte master league was fun enough.
I am feeling like putting either pes3 or pes 5 back on my PC just to play master league again. I wonder which is better?
I don tlike new PEs so not an option and to me FIFA offline even career mode gets boring fast, perhaps the CPU AI and the way the matches are alway so similar or soemthing?
Since PEs5 tbh I feel like soemthign has been missing in my life...lmao..but 100% serious. Master league would occupy me 12 months per game since PS2 release.
Even things like seeing your mates master league team or playins master league team with yours etc...however just playing hte master league was fun enough.
I am feeling like putting either pes3 or pes 5 back on my PC just to play master league again. I wonder which is better?
I don tlike new PEs so not an option and to me FIFA offline even career mode gets boring fast, perhaps the CPU AI and the way the matches are alway so similar or soemthing?
maybe casue there was more error in the coding?
I mean maybe the new games everythign is coded so perfect tha mistkaes and randomness are uncommon?
I dotn know?
Totally disagree with that comment.
PES' problems go WAY beyond simple presentation and front end issues. It's the gameplay that is seriously broken in my opinion.
We've all played and loved PES games that didn't have great graphics, animations, licences or any of that aesthetic stuff.
A game that is great fun to play can make us overlook those things, though admittedly we shouldn't have to do without them on the current level of tech we are playing games on.