The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Blanco]

KONAMI need AI-cheating scripts to make PES difficult and challenging.
But Yair truly proves the opposite, he removed all AI cheatingscripts, he tweaked every aspect of the game and ends up with the best footballgame I ever played.
After release I would give PES2012 a 6.5/10. After Yair's gameplay patch, I would give PES2012 a 9.5/10.

It's so different, it's so FREE, it so much fun to play.

My PESbuddy is a diehard KONAMI fanboy, you can't say a bad word about the PES franchises. We were always argueing about there is AI-cheating or not. Yesterday, he played PES with Yair's gameplay patch for the first time and he was sold immediately.
Actually, I highly doubt I would buy PES2013 if I knew Yair would stop his programming work.

 

[Professor Nutmeg]

Wow, removing the AI cheat scripts. That would be great on the console. Perhaps ML would play like exhibition games. Exhibition games play much better to me, as they don't appear to be as scripted as ML.

 

[Srider]

Wow, removing the AI cheat scripts. That would be great on the console. Perhaps ML would play like exhibition games. Exhibition games play much better to me, as they don't appear to be as scripted as ML.

I noticed this as well. Playing exhibition mode and Champions League mode feels like two completely different games.

As you said, normal exhibition mode feels so much more "fair" in comparison. Playing the exact same teams and the same formation, I get consistently different results between the two modes.

The CPU is stronger and more dominating in Champions League mode, resulting in higher number of shots, higher interception, and much more corner kicks.

I wish there was a more scientific way of testing it, but my results seem to suggest that there is something in play that affects the gameplay.

 

[Enzo]

I very much doubt that but why do some people think it's OK to have members of the public "fix" the game to make it half decent because Konami cant be bothered?

Do you think this is acceptable? Your £40 went to Konami, not some poor bastard who sat in his room trying to fix the game for days on end!

Konami had 1 whole year to sort out PES 2012 and they fucked it up. The people who do these home made patches seem to be able to deliver a game closer to what the public actually want in just a few days! WTF is going on at Konami?

I made a tongue in cheek post a couple of pages ago about PES being a DIY game on PC but some people seem to be happy with that. I find that incredible.

What if these hard working patch guys decide "Fuck it" and stop trying to fix Konami's broken code? Is that the only time you'll start to get pissed off?

You're happy with the DIY patched version of the game, I get that, but that shouldn't stop you having a go at Konami for not giving you a decent game to play in the first place.

Well you are right, but I try to find best possible football any way possible. I dont care if I have to pay 50$ or I need to download a patch. I say again you are 100% right, we should demand proper gameplay out of the box, but KONAMI dosen't listen, they can't even make editing easier for us.. Fifa 12 is better solution for consoles.

 

[Evil Heat]

I'm intrigued enough by the good reviews of the Yair patch to try it out.

But can anyone tell me which version should I use,and will it still work after the Konami 1.03 update patch?

Thanks.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Make no mistake, PES 2013 will be very much the same. Same engine, same graphics, same animations, same scripting, a new bug, a feature or two removed. Some teams replaced by others. You get the idea. A mere 'tweaked' update.

And some people wonder why i still play older PES, like PES5. It's essentially the same game, but better gameplay.

I tend to think the same. I think it will just signal the increasing speed with which the game is declining in popularity.

Like I've said before, FIFA release night had a queue of about 200 people in my supermarket (which I didn't bother joining by the way!). PES2012's release saw me standing at the counter on my own asking if they had a copy because they hadn't bothered to put it out yet. Next year I can see more outlets not bothering to stock it at all. If it carries on this way, I can see it becoming an import title only.

But I do agree with people on here, Konami seem to be getting outdated in every game genre. PES clearly shows that they don't have a clue. They don't have any concept of how vital modern tech is to a game these days, nor how to market/present a product in the western market, nor how to retain any sense of consistency in gameplay from title to title.

 

[Enzo]

I tend to think the same. I think it will just signal the increasing speed with which the game is declining in popularity.

Like I've said before, FIFA release night had a queue of about 200 people in my supermarket (which I didn't bother joining by the way!). PES2012's release saw me standing at the counter on my own asking if they had a copy because they hadn't bothered to put it out yet. Next year I can see more outlets not bothering to stock it at all. If it carries on this way, I can see it becoming an import title only.

But I do agree with people on here, Konami seem to be getting outdated in every game genre. PES clearly shows that they don't have a clue. They don't have any concept of how vital modern tech is to a game these days, nor how to market/present a product in the western market, nor how to retain any sense of consistency in gameplay from title to title.

Thats so true and so sad

Frostbyte 2 engine from Need for speed : Run / Battlefield 3 + konami AI = 2012 football game.

 

[Enzo]

I'm intrigued enough by the good reviews of the Yair patch to try it out.

But can anyone tell me which version should I use,and will it still work after the Konami 1.03 update patch?

Thanks.

beta ver.3 or ver.6 choose yourself, read some feedback in yair topic.

Yair will make update after KONAMI 1.03 is out.

 

[Nobleknight]

I tend to think the same. I think it will just signal the increasing speed with which the game is declining in popularity.

Like I've said before, FIFA release night had a queue of about 200 people in my supermarket (which I didn't bother joining by the way!). PES2012's release saw me standing at the counter on my own asking if they had a copy because they hadn't bothered to put it out yet. Next year I can see more outlets not bothering to stock it at all. If it carries on this way, I can see it becoming an import title only.

But I do agree with people on here, Konami seem to be getting outdated in every game genre. PES clearly shows that they don't have a clue. They don't have any concept of how vital modern tech is to a game these days, nor how to market/present a product in the western market, nor how to retain any sense of consistency in gameplay from title to title.

totally agree
The funniest thing is that PR and feedback collectors still think that gameplay is amazing and better than fifa lol

how can you achieve great gameplay without sorting your tech problems first
Konami will be forgotten especially after the release of the new 3rd footy game (lords of football )

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Lords of Football wont be any good, Looking at the website they are showing two screens of the game.......

1: A footballer fishing while still in his strip lol

2: Players in a Gym lol

A football game with not much football going on.

edit: another screen of what appears to be a drunk man in a deserted town.

 

[zlac]

[irony]
Now if that ain't proper Football Life ...
[/irony]

 

[Ern Dog]

You sure they arent screens from the new ML cut sceens in PES2013?

 

[Blanco]

It's a game about football lifestyle, lol what an idea.
Who cares about that anyway?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You sure they arent screens from the new ML cut sceens in PES2013?

It does look like the kind of nonsense Konami would put in.

"Player is drunk, Stamina depleted for 5 games"

 

[Northzzz]

I haven't played this in a while but i've played for something like 25 minutes of game time and realised how fucking annoying it is when the computer decides to push or pull your players away from the ball. It's like saying no, no your player should be here even when i'm trying to get him towards the fucking ball. Case in point a long ball over the top from the CPU. I've got control of my defender and am running towards the ball as i'm in front of their nearest striker. Cue the game pushing me into a different direction that the one i'm already running in. So essentially my player just stopped running for a moment allowing the CPU player behind him to get the ball because he didn't stop. Happened as the CPU scored earlier in the match too. I couldn't move one of my defenders into the middle to attempt to block a Hernandez run through the middle. The game literally made both my defenders part like the red sea and wouldn't allow the to adjust so obviously Hernandez ran through a sea of fucking nothing to score. Shit goal too. You know the kind where they just roll the ball into the corner as slow as you like and the goalkeeper dives at such a god damn stupid angle not even really stretching out for the ball at all. Of course from a standing position too. I knew what he was going to do but the damn game wouldn't allow me to defend. Happened to the CPU too actually. There was a loose ball and Nani was the nearest player on the edge of the box. Rather than run to get the ball he ran back into what i can only assume to be his position on RW where the game said he should be. Freedom my fucking ass. I'd rather it not be as free as fifa because i like the limitations but not when the game thinks not to allow me to move my damn players or stops them running to adjust for no reason at all.

Please note super cancel doesn't always work especially when you don't have time to do it. It really does only work for adjusting to receive long balls in acres of space.

Seriously the game is better with patches and jenkeys/yairs gameplay but it's things like this, and shit injury system and a shit stamina system and no atmosphere whatsoever, that make me laugh when people say the patch magically fixes everything. It really doesn't. The game is still so damn basic in far too many ways. It's automating the game AI to override your own commands and it's so damn stupid most of the time.

I literally came on here to write this to vent. I'm sure many of you know that feeling.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

True, it can be nasty at times. Poor balancing.

By the way, did anyone see how 'Scripted' the Man Utd game was last night ? Jeez, that was worse than anything I've seen on PES yet.

I also want to say this though. This is a video game, we have not control over the outcome, it's not real football, the CPU decides when and how. It always has, and it always will. And that works both ways. People need to understand this. The CPU is there to score and also stop you from scoring, so guess what, dont be suprised when it happens. Most people that complain are doing so because they are simply not winning. This is by far the hardest PES to date, it's also the most blatant in these little CPU cheats. But, it's also the most challenging. I look at it this way, no matter which way the CPU scores, there will always be people who complain. If the CPU scores a 30 yard screamer, it's scripted. If, alternatively, they dribble past 3 of your players for a tap-in, then again, it's scripted. I dont believe for one second the outcome of a game in PES is fated. It's the skill of the user, or lack of it, combined with the randomness that is football.

I'll go back to PES 11 offline for a moment. That bored the shit out me, and I rarely even bothered with it. And the reason was, there was no challenge. Winning the WC and CL with Senegal, Poland and then Olympiacos on Top Player in 4 attempts was wrong. It was boring. This year, on Professional, with Zero Assistance ( which is by the way, Seabass's definitive vision on how we should be playing this year, and a natural progression from PES 11 in the simulation stakes) I lose more than I win. And, I've never been so addicted to PES offline in a long, long time. So, with that said, no prizes for guessing which version I much prefer, regardless.

Football is a very passionate sport, and with it comes a myriad of emotions. The reason people get so upset with PES is because, A. It's not easy. And B. It's football.

People whinge and look to blame the game, because they cant do what they once could. Try learning, it get's alot easier, and alot more satisfying. And always remember, it's a computer GAME.

I have no idea how people cant find all the good that is actually in this game. If it wasnt for all the great stuff, I wouldnt be playing it.

I'd be alot more happy if the CPU defence wasnt as super-composed as it is. They act like they dont have a worry in the world at times, and it's all laser-guided passes. Also the pressure is too high, that needs tweaking. Apart from that, I'm very, very happy.

 

[Northzzz]

Here's another question not related to my post above. Do players ever run backwards in this game? I'm sure they don't. Even when jogging forwards and looking to receive a ball going behind them they always adjust their run by turning and running in the other direction. They never stop and jog backwards in order to get ready to control the ball. I guess we'll chalk this down to the fact that players seem to have no anticipation of the ball when it's loose. You have to steer them in such unnatural ways. An example being the player turning 180 degrees and running 3 yards back instead of just jogging backwards a bit.

I don't really mind the times when you play a pass on the ground and the ball goes behind them at an awkward angle and they fail to adjust and do the stumble thing. I'm talking about when the ball is in the air.

 

[Northzzz]

True, it can be nasty at times. Poor balancing.

By the way, did anyone see how 'Scripted' the Man Utd game was last night ? Jeez, that was worse than anything I've seen on PES yet.

I trust you're being facetious.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I trust you're being facetious.

Not at all, I'm just saying. Football is a funny old game.

What is so different about Man Utd dominating the game, having a plethora of great chances, star-strikers (Rooney) completely mis-hitting shots from 5 yards out. Numerous shots hitting the bar, post etc etc etc. And what happens on PES when the ball
is supposedly 'Scripted' not to go in ?

Nothing. It's just football.

Also, if people generally believe that the game is 'Scripted' for them to lose before a ball has even been kicked on PES, then they need to stop playing it. Also, seek help for extreme paranoia, or take a loss like a man and stop bitching.

I dont like the fact the CPU players can dodge slide tackles when I cant, I dont like it how I stumble but CPU very rarely does. Or how, your player can be moved slightly away from the ball at the wrong time. It's a video game, and it's a cheapish way of at least making it challenging. It's the first time I've ever noticed any of this, but, it's also the hardest PES I've played. By a long, long way. And it's no coincidence they both go hand-in-hand. What I find funny is that people were praising the CPU's great movement and play in the demo's, also how the CPU dribbled, it was brilliant then. Now it's 'Scripted' bullshit. Why ? because people are sore losers.

One thing I'm sure of 100%, is that if people were actually good at this game, there would be alot less moaning on here.

 

[Jamezinho]

This year, on Professional, with Zero Assistance ( which is by the way, Seabass's definitive vision on how we should be playing this year, and a natural progression from PES 11 in the simulation stakes) I lose more than I win.

How do you know it's his definitive vision? If it was then why have we got five levels of passing assist?

I agree it's the way the game should be played for what it's worth, but with each passing year I have less and less faith in Seabass's vision, if he has any at all that is. He should be judged on this generation of consoles as well as the last and all I can see is a man who's lost control, has no direction and frankly is out of his depth with modern technology.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Why is it the definitive version ? Because it completely builds upon last years system. We now have more control, we have more user-error, which is turn creates a more realistic approach, negating the ping-pong issue and pushing forward the footballing fundamental of the need to get a foot on the ball. Basics. We now have a fully manual system that incorporates statistics. It's perfect, and something I never even believed was possible two years ago. Also, the individuality of the players is by far, the highest it's ever been with this system. I have no doubt that this is the system designed for the PES hardcore base. Everything about it reeks of that. The problem is, it's so hardcore, that it will never win over the casual player. Hence the reason Passing Assistance levels were introduced. To attract the Fifa Assisted players, and to try and regain a share of that market. The problem is, that was never going to happen. They cant compete with EA on that level. There is also no question, that the demo's were built with the 'loose' free-flowing feel for that exact reason. The problem Seabass has, is he needs to appease his faithful, (Zero), but also win back sales (Assisted). Now that's almost impossible. PES isnt the 'it' game to play, people have moved on, and the casuals want Fifa.

I totally disagree about his philosophy, on Zero, it's the most accurate PES has ever been to simulating real football. They just got caught in two-minds, and screwed up Online with this Passing Assistance bullshit. Very few are prepared to sit down and learn this new system, because not only are we given an easier option, but also, because it's very hard from the offset.

Also, as much as I'd like to see less accurate pressure from the CPU in around their area, when using R2 to create that tiny bit of space for a shot, well, it's just beautiful, and spot-on.

 

[Northzzz]

Not at all, I'm just saying. Football is a funny old game.

What is so different about Man Utd dominating the game, having a plethora of great chances, star-strikers (Rooney) completely mis-hitting shots from 5 yards out. Numerous shots hitting the bar, post etc etc etc. And what happens on PES when the ball
is supposedly 'Scripted' not to go in ?

Nothing. It's just football.

Also, if people generally believe that the game is 'Scripted' for them to lose before a ball had even been kicked on PES, then they need to stop playing it. Also, seek help for extreme paranoia, or take a loss like a man and stop bitching.

I dont like the fact the CPU players can dodge slide tackles when I cant, I dont like it how I stumble but CPU very rarely does. It's a video game, and it's a cheapish way of at least making it challenging.

One thing I'm sure of 100%, is that if people were actually good at this game, there would be alot less moaning on here.

Because it actually is built into the game mechanics to do that where as football in reality isn't based on any built in game mechanics besides determinism, of which is a whole other ball park.

Plus you have to look at the differences. Basel scored two goals from defensive/goalkeeping errors in judgements. Most goalkeeping/defensive errors in judgements are mostly down to the computer taking things out of your hands as illustrated in my first post today. It's frustrating. Really frustrating. I'm not debating that PES in some way doesn't highlight the topsy turvy side of football but really most of the time it serves to just frustrate the player. It's hardly similar to real life either in most cases. When I'm beating Belgium 3-0 and they're just terrible all game but decide to turn it on in the 80th minute and the computer suddenly decides it wants to take it round 3 of my players with previously inept players and scores a couple, narrowly missing an equaliser, that's when i'm going to call the scripting out as just stupid. I'm not saying scripting shouldn't be in the game but the way it is currently employed either a) looks poor/stupid/obvious and/or b) serves just to frustrate the player rather than giving them a good game experience (and no good game experience doesn't equal winning). The rare times the computer plays against me with good football and wins i tend to enjoy it. Like just now Dynamo Zagreb actually scored two decent goals and i enjoyed the game a lot. It wasn't like that Hernandez goal in the previous game where it felt more like my defenders being pushed out of place gifted them the goal rather than the cpu earning it through good play.

If you're saying that scripting doesn't equate to how my team plays then i can agree with you. I'm not going to call out scripting when my player misses a guilt edge chance.

I don't even find scripting really i must admit. Not since whatever the funk Jenkey's patch did to the game. I did however seem to find it a lot before and can cite numerous examples (the belgium incident being one).

 

[Jamezinho]

As I said, it's not definitive and Seabass should have had the balls to make it the one and only control system as he did the year before with PES2011.

I don't agree on individuality either. It's been much better in the past, particularly the PS2 days.

 

[Blanco]

Most people that complain are doing so because they are simply not winning

Well, I play PES on PC with Yair's gameplay patch and I"m not winning all the time, in fact I lose more matches then I win.
It's still hard to win but the difference is I don't feel cheated at all, because for the first time I'm free to do what I want and when I loose the ball I know what I did wrong. Nobody is pushing you around in a direction you didn't choose, you don't even need super-cancel anymore!

 

[Northzzz]

Well, I play PES on PC with Yair's gameplay patch and I"m not winning all the time, in fact I lose more matches then I win.
It's still hard to win but the difference is I don't feel cheated at all, because for the first time I'm free to do what I want and when I loose the ball I know what I did wrong. Nobody is pushing you around in a direction you didn't choose, you don't even need super-cancel anymore!

I play on PC with Jenkey's patch. Not sure how different it is to Yair's.

 

[n4p4st4]

I've posted this on the Football Life thread and I hope it's ok (not spamming) if I ask you people over here for help because:

I am playing on a PC Pes2012, PesEdit 2.3, ML with Arsenal. Very good and nice, but I've got a problem:
Gervinho and Wallcot are wingers and whoever plays at far part of the pitch (depending on the half) drops to the near side alongside the other winger.
It leaves my far wing completely exposed both in defence and in attack.
I've tried lowering the swithc position slider to 4, changing positions to Side Midfielders, but nothing. It still happens.
Can anyone help me, please? It ruins the whole game.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

As I said, it's not definitive and Seabass should have had the balls to make it the one and only control system as he did the year before with PES2011.

I don't agree on individuality either. It's been much better in the past, particularly the PS2 days.

Definitive was the wrong word I guess, but it was his vision. We have seen Assisted Passing in every PES game bar PES 2011. It's nothing new. Zero is new, very. That is the progressive system.

Really ? Come on ?

Since when on any PS2 PES games did defenders feel and behave like they do on Zero ? First-Touch across the board ? Player Cards ? Defensive/Attacking traits ? Strikers that track-back ?

It's a million miles away from PS2 days Jamez. In my opinion.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Because it actually is built into the game mechanics to do that where as football in reality isn't based on any built in game mechanics besides determinism, of which is a whole other ball park.

Plus you have to look at the differences. Basel scored two goals from defensive/goalkeeping errors in judgements. Most goalkeeping/defensive errors in judgements are mostly down to the computer taking things out of your hands as illustrated in my first post today. It's frustrating. Really frustrating. I'm not debating that PES in some way doesn't highlight the topsy turvy side of football but really most of the time it serves to just frustrate the player. It's hardly similar to real life either in most cases. When I'm beating Belgium 3-0 and they're just terrible all game but decide to turn it on in the 80th minute and the computer suddenly decides it wants to take it round 3 of my players with previously inept players and scores a couple, narrowly missing an equaliser, that's when i'm going to call the scripting out as just stupid. I'm not saying scripting shouldn't be in the game but the way it is currently employed either a) looks poor/stupid/obvious and/or b) serves just to frustrate the player rather than giving them a good game experience (and no good game experience doesn't equal winning). The rare times the computer plays against me with good football and wins i tend to enjoy it. Like just now Dynamo Zagreb actually scored two decent goals and i enjoyed the game a lot. It wasn't like that Hernandez goal in the previous game where it felt more like my defenders being pushed out of place gifted them the goal rather than the cpu earning it through good play.

If you're saying that scripting doesn't equate to how my team plays then i can agree with you. I'm not going to call out scripting when my player misses a guilt edge chance.

I don't even find scripting really i must admit. Not since whatever the funk Jenkey's patch did to the game. I did however seem to find it a lot before and can cite numerous examples (the belgium incident being one).

So, if they play shit and win then that's not football ? Have a word with Sam Allardyce after last Saturdays game.

Also, of course the CPU does what it can, and sure, Man Utd had it their hands, but the bottom-line is, the end result was identical. That's my point.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I've posted this on the Football Life thread and I hope it's ok (not spamming) if I ask you people over here for help because:

Does one of them have the Free Roaming Player Card ? If so, you cant really stop it, it's in their natural tendencies. I have the same issue at times with Lee Chung Yung (sp). The only option, is to play a more disciplined player in that regard.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

My issue isn't with feeling like PES has conspired against you from time to time, because like Jimmy says, that's football. But the number of times I deservedly lose a match compared to those I lose but clearly deserve to win is tiny. I would say 95% of all matches I lose are a case of dominating the play then getting shafted at the end. Time after time. So while the occasional loss where it's just 'one of those day's is fine, it was evenly balanced in favour of both you and the CPU in PES2011. This time around though the balance is totally weighted against you over and over.

I don't mind losing 10 ML matches a season because I was outplayed. But I do mind losing 10 matches a season despite dominating in possession, shots at goal and attacking attitude, only to get screwed over and over, game after game. That's not remotely realistic. There's the difference for me, and why I stopped playing PES2012. No team has an unlucky loss every time you lose, where nothing goes right. But PES hasn't got the ability to have even the top teams in the world like Barcelona be able to keep the ball, put you under constant pressure etc. That's why I don't play it. The CPU scripting kicks in after allowing you most of the play but blanking you out with limitless stamina and overpowered challenges. It's not intelligent enough to provide a realistic challenge.