The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Jimmy G-Force]

My issue isn't with feeling like PES has conspired against you from time to time, because like Jimmy says, that's football. But the number of times I lose a match compared to those I lost but clearly deserved to win is tiny. I would say 95% of all matches I lose are a case of dominating the play then getting shafted at the end. Time after time. So while the occasional loss where it's just 'one of those day's is fine, it was evenly balanced in favour of both you and the CPU in PES2011. This tome around though the balance is totally weighted against you over and over.

I don't mind losing 10 ML matches a season because I was outplayed. But I do mind losing 10 matches a season despite dominating in possession, shots at goal and attacking attitude, only to get screwed over and over, game after game. That's not remotely realistic. There's the difference for me, and why I stopped playing PES2012. No team has an unlucky loss every time you lose, where nothing goes right. But PES hasn't got the ability to have even the top teams in the world like Barcelona be able to keep the ball, put you under constant pressure etc. That's why ivdont play it. The CPU scripting kicks in after allowing you most of the play but blanking you out with limitless stamina and overpowered challenges. It's not intelligent enough to provide a realistic challenge.

I agree LT, and I do owe you an apology. Until playing this version extensively, I wasnt aware of any of these little cheats that you had mentioned. It was a bit of a Cry Wolf assumption. So I apologise, they are there.

They are few and far between for me though, and I have seen it work both ways as well. I hate losing against the CPU, and especially if I've had most of the game, but, if I dont put the ball in the back of the net myself, then I have no-one to blame. That's how I see it.

I also welcome this brilliant challenge, I've never had this in PES since PES 5, and this is alot harder again. PES 2011 is boring for me. I could put that on and walk through Top Player with a mediocre side. That doesnt interest me.

Edit - I played a game last night were one of those subtle little CPU cheats kicked-in. I tried to slide-tackle a CPU player that was through on goal, twice, with two different defenders. The CPU player just rode both challenges. He didnt score, but there was nothing I could do about it. I was a little pissed off at first, but the way I see it, in football, sometimes there simply isnt anything you can do.

 

[Ximenez]

What is the point of us being given the option of moving individual players to specific positions on the pitch, if the sliders and CPU just disregard this anyway.

Again, Konami like to give us the illusion of freedom but actually give us much less freedom than we had on the PS2 versions...

...What?

The positions on the pitch work in tandem with the sliders. What you have to do is figure out is how moving the players on the screen actually affect their movement on the pitch.

The correct complaint would be that they've got rid of the "pixel" movement, so it's much harder to get a player in an "exact" position. The removal of arrows and defence levels. The removal of strategies (left/right side attack). These are things Konami have broken, dumbing down the game and making it more "plug and play". Yes they are taking away freedom (nothing new, it's been happening for at least 8 years...) but player position on the formation screen isn't really one of them.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

...What?

The positions on the pitch work in tandem with the sliders. What you have to do is figure out is how moving the players on the screen actually affect their movement on the pitch.

The correct complaint would be that they've got rid of the "pixel" movement, so it's much harder to get a player in an "exact" position. The removal of arrows and defence levels. The removal of strategies (left/right side attack). These are things Konami have broken, dumbing down the game and making it more "plug and play". Yes they are taking away freedom (nothing new, it's been happening for at least 8 years...) but player position on the formation screen isn't really one of them.

That's wrong in my opinion. Sure they removed those options, but they did it for the sake of individuality for the most part, and not 'plug and play'. The individual players and their natural traits are now what governs this, and I'm all for that realism. As an example, not every full-back in football has the attacking tendencies of an Ashley Cole or Maicon. So, if we want true realism, having their traits dictate how attacking they are is the most realistic solution. Rather than just telling any FB to get forward individually. We still have the option to increase Team Level support, and over a few differing levels.

 

[jpf7]

...What?

The positions on the pitch work in tandem with the sliders. What you have to do is figure out is how moving the players on the screen actually affect their movement on the pitch.

The correct complaint would be that they've got rid of the "pixel" movement,

I don't think you understand what I am actually complaining about.

If I look at my opponents formation in the tactics screen and their defenders are positioned virtually near the half way line (as high a defnsive line as they could posibly have) - surely that defense on the pitch should not be sitting relatively deep? This is what I have witnessed on many occasions.

If it is only the defensive line slider that dictates the depth of the defensive line, than what is the point of allowing us to move players wherever we want on the pitch? This ability is effectively rendered useless.

As for you telling me what the "correct complaint" I should be making is, well that kind of condescending attitude makes you look a bit of an ass really.

No matter anyway, IMHO pes 2012 is a bit of a mess in so many areas.

 

[Northzzz]

I've played PES 2012 on zero passing assistance since the very beginning of the game but i'm starting to come to the conclusion that it's too problematic and it falls in line with my anticipation of loose balls argument. I much much prefer the way it's less accurate and homed in and that it requires more skill but quite frankly i'm finding too many issues with players reacting to loose balls and essentially the game defines loose balls as a lot of passes on zero passing assistance. The accuracy of the pass isn't what bothers me. What bothers me is that my players react slower to wayward passes on 0 than on 1. I put 1 on for my last game and the issues with player reactions to passes is less obvious. It's on rails completely but that's just how PES functions and i can ill be bothered to fight that anymore. It's not even that easy to get perfect passes even on 1 as i suspected it might be.

 

[jpf7]

I've played PES 2012 on zero passing assistance since the very beginning of the game but i'm starting to come to the conclusion that it's too problematic and it falls in line with my anticipation of loose balls argument. I much much prefer the way it's less homed in and requires more skill but quite frankly i'm finding too many issues with players reacting to loose balls and essentially the game defines loose balls as a lot of passes on zero passing assistance. The accuracy of the pass isn't what bothers me. What bothers me is that my players react slower to wayward passes on 0 than on 1. I put 1 on for my last game and the issues with player reactions to passes is less obvious. It's on rails completely but that's just how PES functions and i can ill be bothered to fight that anymore. It's not even that easy to get perfect passes even on 1 as i suspected it might be.

Exactly right IMO - the out of date game engine can't seem to cope with the open ended situations that zero passing assistance brings up. The CPU/AI just goes into a twitchy meltdown.

 

[Ximenez]

That's wrong in my opinion. Sure they removed those options, but they did it for the sake of individuality for the most part, and not 'plug and play'. The individual players and their natural traits are now what governs this, and I'm all for that realism. As an example, not every full-back in football has the attacking tendencies of an Ashley Cole or Maicon. So, if we want true realism, having their traits dictate how attacking they are is the most realistic solution. Rather than just telling any FB to get forward individually. We still have the option to increase Team Level support, and over a few differing levels.

Not every fullback has the attacking tendencies of Cole because they either:

a) Don't play in a team with loads of the ball, usually against teams that park the bus

b) Don't have the actual ability on the ball to balance risk/reward.

Every fullback should have the ability to get forward, irrespective of anything. Not just Ashley Cole because he plays for Chelsea/Maicon for Inter.

The removal of arrows/defence levels/strategies, this "drag and drop" is all catered to the "pick a formation and play" crowd. There's no real need to have much thought process now, either because you want to or not, because the ability to do something different with your tactics is diminishing by the year.

I, like you, am enjoying the challenge of the game this year. It's like no other PES game before. I don't play on anything other than superstar. But before, where playing wild off-the-cuff formations wouldn't get you very far against the best players, now, it doesn't make as big a difference as it did. Mainly because, as you said, a lot of it is down to the player. They've taken away the ability to tactically out think your opponent, to be able identify and attack a weakness in the opposition to give you a chance, through all those mediums. In order to just play 4-3-3 and bang, players are gonna move where they're gonna move. Plug and play really.

Too much individuality doesn't leave much room for human influence. Like the free roaming card effecing wingers on the opposite flank coming in and standing in the centre or generally just not staying wide (I think this is a bug btw). If I'm the manager of my team, I am able to tell my players to stay wide at all times. It's a struggle now to get a player to do something as simple as that.

I don't think you understand what I am actually complaining about.

If I look at my opponents formation in the tactics screen and their defenders are positioned virtually near the half way line (as high a defnsive line as they could posibly have) - surely that defense on the pitch should not be sitting relatively deep? This is what I have witnessed on many occasions.

If it is only the defensive line slider that dictates the depth of the defensive line, than what is the point of allowing us to move players wherever we want on the pitch? This ability is effectively rendered useless.

As for you telling me what the "correct complaint" I should be making is, well that kind of condescending attitude makes you look a bit of an ass really.

No matter anyway, IMHO pes 2012 is a bit of a mess in so many areas.

I know exactly what you are talking about and I've already answered. The position they are placed on the formation screen you see has no bearing on how high their defensive line is held. It's been like this since they gave us the ability to manually move players, most prominent when backline settings where introduced.

The putting of players on the formation screen affects other variables of the players movement. It doesn't equal position on the field. Otherwise sticking strikers as high up the pitch as possible would always see them offside, or a sweeper would actually stand on the keeper...

I don't really care if I look like an "ass", because quite frankly you are complaining about something that you clearly don't demonstrate a full understanding of. It's like me moaning about passes never staying on the floor but all I'm using is circle...

 

[jpf7]

I don't really care if I look like an "ass", because quite frankly you are complaining about something that you clearly don't demonstrate a full understanding of. It's like me moaning about passes never staying on the floor but all I'm using is circle...

People that speak to others in the way you do (internet forum or not) have no choice but to not care how others view them. ie. most people think they are arrogant, condescending fools.

Get back to boasting about how you only play the game on superstar, as if that means anything other than you are a fool to play on a difficulty setting where the CPU simply cheats constantly. Bravo.

 

[Shikashi]

One thing I'm sure of 100%, is that if people were actually good at this game, there would be alot less moaning on here.

Hilarious on so many levels.

Tell you what, do you know why those top Street Fighter players are so good at the game? Because they feel motivated to get good. Why? Because the game is good and they don't feel cheated whenever they play, they realize that it's their lack of skill hampering them, not poor game design. It's the complete opposite with PES.

 

[Northzzz]

I'll tell you what is a bit annoying too. Sometimes the pitch feels a lot smaller than it should when playing through balls, especially length wise. If you put a ball anywhere near that box, even if it's gonna end up and inch inside, you better believe that keeper is going to come out and get it. No trepidation at all. I'm not really a through ball whore but it's really hard to utilise a striker's pace to get on the end of through balls when you know the keeper is going to be getting it ten times out of ten if it happens to be anywhere inside the box (Which is basically like 9 times out of 10 when playing a through ball when counter attacking.) It's really hard to get it to go slightly in front of the striker. It always goes well ahead of him. I've said before that through balls are always over powered or under powered generally. The CPU often plays a really high defensive line. You should be able to punish them but it's really hard to.

 

[Miro]

I played the game again for a few hours after two weeks.

Its unbelieveble how bad this games is.
This engine is totally out of date and what an unbelieveble unrealistic unfootball situations can this game produce is beyond me.
If I just had time to make videos of situations I wittnesed for few hours and put it on youtube I ll have funniest video of the week, Benny Hill show is crap compared to this nonsense.

This game is really bad, something needs to be done.

 

[Ximenez]

People that speak to others in the way you do (internet forum or not) have no choice but to not care how others view them. ie. most people think they are arrogant, condescending fools.

Oh the irony.

Get back to boasting about how you only play the game on superstar, as if that means anything other than you are a fool to play on a difficulty setting where the CPU simply cheats constantly. Bravo.

Boasting? I'm telling the guy the way I play the game, highlighting the similarities we share on why we are pulled into the game. I don't get how playing on a difficulty setting which I've said is challenging means I'm a fool but hey, at least you aren't trying to argue about something you have no clue over (debatable). Well done on trying to shift the attention.

 

[pj_puttz]

Here are Jimmy's points in a nutshell as I see them:

1. The AI cheats (he finally admits this) but that's OK because it makes the game harder.

2. People only complain about the game because they are shit at it.

Unbelieveable.

I cant help but feel that Jimmy would love PES even if Seabass himself came round to his house and vomited over his head every time he scored a goal. In Jimmy's world this would be all part of football being "a funny old game" and would also be a GOOD thing because it's really hard to concentrate when your face is dripping with sick.

Jimmy, you're stringing yourself up with your own argument here. I'll ignore the 'you only hate PES because you're shit at it' crap because you know yourself you should be above that childish "u r a noob lol" nonsense.

Your point about it being a GAME is what I'm talking about. Yes, real life football can throw up countless variations of events and results and it is impossible for Konami to recreate this. But what they have done instead is CHEAT the player and you think this is both acceptable and actually beneficial to the game? A GAME should have the player in full control at all times, otherwise it stops being a game and becomes a demo. If every game used Konami's cheating tactics to make games harder the entire industry would collapse as no one (apart from you of course) would play games anymore. My input to the controller should never be ignored by a game, whether deliberately or due to a bug. PES consistently does this.

You clearly have a vivid imagination and you use this to justify whatver happens in PES. When the game fucks you over you create a scenario in your head to justify it. Therefore nothing and no one can convince you of PES's many flaws because you have been fooling yourself for too long. The evidence is there for all to see, you've already done a huge u-turn on the cheating issue after weeks of you claiming you "dont see it" or that "it doesnt happen to me". Only NOW are you noticing the things that everyone else could see weeks ago. Who knows what else you might notice in the months to come? Maybe by March you'll have realised that cheating AI is actually a bad thing? I wish defenders in PES caught up at the same rate you do Jimmy, maybe then we wouldn't have David Weir out-sprinting Nani in the game.

Page after page of flaws in PES have been recored in this thread and all you can come back with is "that's football" or "you're shit". Sure you dress it up with long paragraphs and meaningless comparisons to real life games but those are esentially your two main arguments.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

I cant help but feel that Jimmy would love PES even if Seabass himself came round to his house and vomited over his head every time he scored a goal. In Jimmy's world this would be all part of football being "a funny old game" and would also be a GOOD thing because it's really hard to concentrate when your face is dripping with sick.

Give this man a Medal. I have not laughed that hard for so long it actually hurt. Bravo sir

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Not every fullback has the attacking tendencies of Cole because they either:

a) Don't play in a team with loads of the ball, usually against teams that park the bus

b) Don't have the actual ability on the ball to balance risk/reward.

Every fullback should have the ability to get forward, irrespective of anything. Not just Ashley Cole because he plays for Chelsea/Maicon for Inter.

The removal of arrows/defence levels/strategies, this "drag and drop" is all catered to the "pick a formation and play" crowd. There's no real need to have much thought process now, either because you want to or not, because the ability to do something different with your tactics is diminishing by the year.

I, like you, am enjoying the challenge of the game this year. It's like no other PES game before. I don't play on anything other than superstar. But before, where playing wild off-the-cuff formations wouldn't get you very far against the best players, now, it doesn't make as big a difference as it did. Mainly because, as you said, a lot of it is down to the player. They've taken away the ability to tactically out think your opponent, to be able identify and attack a weakness in the opposition to give you a chance, through all those mediums. In order to just play 4-3-3 and bang, players are gonna move where they're gonna move. Plug and play really.

Too much individuality doesn't leave much room for human influence. Like the free roaming card effecing wingers on the opposite flank coming in and standing in the centre or generally just not staying wide (I think this is a bug btw). If I'm the manager of my team, I am able to tell my players to stay wide at all times. It's a struggle now to get a player to do something as simple as that.

Excellent post by the way, very well informed, and superbly written.

I've had this exact debate before as it happens, and we came to conclusion, it's whatever you prefer. I understand the argument with regards to having the option to individually request a FB to push on, but, I still prefer this new system. I dont think it's 'pick a formation and play' system with no thought to be put in, in fact, quite the opposite.

This new system revolves soley around player individuality, and therefore, if you choose to opt for a more naturally attacking full-back, then you pick him within the starting eleven. And he does a job. Alternatively, if you wish to have a more defensive full-back that wont bomb forward, then that's who you will pick. I have this dilemma with Bolton, I choose Steinsson when I wish to have a more solid defensive full-back that will hold his position. He offers more with regards his strength and is certainly a more secure defensive option. I primarily use Steinsson in a 4-2-3-1 set-up. If I opt for a 4-4-2 option, and wish my full-back to overlap, I choose Mears. He has attacking tendencies, is quick, nimble, and the perfect make-up for that type of RB.

The Free Roaming Card will always give you another option. It's certainly not detrimental overall, it has more positives that it has negatives. The players with this card offer up an option in situations that normally would not be available. The easiest way to stop this from happening, is to change the player's position slightly. For example, CMF to a narrow RMF. This keeps the player more disciplined to his role.

Like I said, I appreciate where your coming from with the old arrows, (which to be honest, I never felt that they were that effective anyway), but personally, the more player individuality the better. It creates more strategic options that are specific to the player, and that is what a team is made up of, 11 individual players.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Here are Jimmy's points in a nutshell as I see them:

1. The AI cheats (he finally admits this) but that's OK because it makes the game harder.

2. People only complain about the game because they are shit at it.

Unbelieveable.

I cant help but feel that Jimmy would love PES even if Seabass himself came round to his house and vomited over his head every time he scored a goal. In Jimmy's world this would be all part of football being "a funny old game" and would also be a GOOD thing because it's really hard to concentrate when your face is dripping with sick.

Jimmy, you're stringing yourself up with your own argument here. I'll ignore the 'you only hate PES because you're shit at it' crap because you know yourself you should be above that childish "u r a noob lol" nonsense.

Your point about it being a GAME is what I'm talking about. Yes, real life football can throw up countless variations of events and results and it is impossible for Konami to recreate this. But what they have done instead is CHEAT the player and you think this is both acceptable and actually beneficial to the game? A GAME should have the player in full control at all times, otherwise it stops being a game and becomes a demo. If every game used Konami's cheating tactics to make games harder the entire industry would collapse as no one (apart from you of course) would play games anymore. My input to the controller should never be ignored by a game, whether deliberately or due to a bug. PES consistently does this.

You clearly have a vivid imagination and you use this to justify whatver happens in PES. When the game fucks you over you create a scenario in your head to justify it. Therefore nothing and no one can convince you of PES's many flaws because you have been fooling yourself for too long. The evidence is there for all to see, you've already done a huge u-turn on the cheating issue after weeks of you claiming you "dont see it" or that "it doesnt happen to me". Only NOW are you noticing the things that everyone else could see weeks ago. Who knows what else you might notice in the months to come? Maybe by March you'll have realised that cheating AI is actually a bad thing? I wish defenders in PES caught up at the same rate you do Jimmy, maybe then we wouldn't have David Weir out-sprinting Nani in the game.

Page after page of flaws in PES have been recored in this thread and all you can come back with is "that's football" or "you're shit". Sure you dress it up with long paragraphs and meaningless comparisons to real life games but those are esentially your two main arguments.

I wouldnt expect you to understand, you cant even shoot straight FFS. You are right about the Nani example though.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I wouldnt expect you to understand, you cant even shoot straight FFS. You are right about the Nani example though.

We can all shoot straight, infact we dont need to shoot straight as the CPU takes over in patch 1.02. 1.03 and shoot's straight for us! Right at the keeper to make them look good! What a game

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

No it doesnt, which is exactly my point.

Isn't it strange how some people have a problem, and others dont. Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[pj_puttz]

No it doesnt, which is exactly my point.

Isn't it strange how some people have a problem, and others dont. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Give it a few months and he'll be on here complaining about the weak and inconsistent shooting just like the rest of us.

It just takes him a while to catch on to these things.

October Jimmy: "AI Cheating? What cheating? There is no cheating! You are all shit at PES!"

December Jimmy: "Oh THAT cheating! I see it now! You're still all shit at PES though!"

What a guy.

 

[Blanco]

I'll tell you what is a bit annoying too. Sometimes the pitch feels a lot smaller than it should when playing through balls, especially length wise. If you put a ball anywhere near that box, even if it's gonna end up and inch inside, you better believe that keeper is going to come out and get it. No trepidation at all. I'm not really a through ball whore but it's really hard to utilise a striker's pace to get on the end of through balls when you know the keeper is going to be getting it ten times out of ten if it happens to be anywhere inside the box (Which is basically like 9 times out of 10 when playing a through ball when counter attacking.) It's really hard to get it to go slightly in front of the striker. It always goes well ahead of him. I've said before that through balls are always over powered or under powered generally. The CPU often plays a really high defensive line. You should be able to punish them but it's really hard to.

I've made a video about the effects of the pitch conditions in PES2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQzm-zYbM8&feature=youtu.be

 

[ToonArmy]

Shooting is one of the few things I don't have a problem with tbh. After playing with Yairs's Beta3 patch the game is fantastic. Only thing left which annoys me is the CPU catching my players so easily and pulling them back until they just stumble and lost the ball...

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Give it a few months and he'll be on here complaining about the weak and inconsistent shooting just like the rest of us.

It just takes him a while to catch on to these things.

October Jimmy: "AI Cheating? What cheating? There is no cheating! You are all shit at PES!"

December Jimmy: "Oh THAT cheating! I see it now! You're still all shit at PES though!"

What a guy.

You are a prize Bellend. You come on here, a PES forum, and all you do is blast the game. You have added nothing positive since you climbed from under your rock and made an appearance. A complete troll. I'm not a COD fan, but you wont catch me frequenting COD sites slating the game. It's pointless. And so are you. I have absolutely no confidence in your knowledge of football, video games maybe, but not football. You proved that with your whole shooting debate. It was pathetic.

Unlike you, I'm man enough to admit I was wrong, I've done it openly and publicly. That takes class. You have jumped all over that like the classless ignorant troll you are. I hadnt played offline enough to see these minor issues/cheats, I was playing solely online. My offline experience has been documented since in the Football Life thread, long after those initial debates. I like most, wont bitch about those little cheats, they are annoying, but detract very little from my enjoyment of the game. And they give me a challenge and most can be passed off to random circumstances that happen within football. Such as, sometimes, there is simply nothing you can do. See Man Utd v Basel.

I can appreciate everything the game does so very right, it's just a shame some others cant. And like I've said, this is a video game, it's here to give me a challenge. If it has to resort to subtle little cheats here and there, then so be it. If the game gave the full advantage to the user, then it would be a boring and pointless affair. Elation is defined by disappoinment, and the thrill of the win is increased ten-fold when the ability to lose is only around the corner.

That's my last post to yourself. I find you irritating and ignorant, and unlike alot of posters on here that I can relate to, you simply dont have a clue about football. In my opinion.

And I stand by my comment, those who are not as proficient at the game, flaws and all, are the ones that are the least happy.

 

[Joey23]

there any sign of konami makes some patch to turn master league offline dificulty "playable"?

 

[pj_puttz]

You are a prize Bellend. You come on here, a PES forum, and all you do is blast the game. You have added nothing positive since you climbed from under your rock and made an appearance. A complete troll. I'm not a COD fan, but you wont catch me frequenting COD sites slating the game. It's pointless. And so are you. I have absolutely no confidence in your knowledge of football, video games maybe, but not football. You proved that with your whole shooting debate. It was pathetic.

Unlike you, I'm man enough to admit I was wrong, I've done it openly and publicly. That takes class. You have jumped all over that like the classless ignorant troll you are. I hadnt played offline enough to see these minor issues/cheats, I was playing solely online. My offline experience has been documented since in the Football Life thread, long after those initial debates. I like most, wont bitch about those little cheats, they are annoying, but detract very little from my enjoyment of the game. And they give me a challenge and most can be passed off to random circumstances that happen within football. Such as, sometimes, they is simply nothing you can do. See Man Utd v Basel.

I can appreciate everything the game does so very right, it's just a shame some others cant. And like I've said, this is a video game, it's here to give me a challenge. If it has to resort to subtle little cheats here and there, then so be it. If the game gave the full advantage to the user, then it would be a boring and pointless affair. Elation is defined by disappoinment, and the thrill of the win is increased ten-fold when the ability to lose is only around the corner.

That's my last post to yourself. I find you irritating and ignorant, and unlike alot of posters on here that I can relate to, you simply dont have a clue about football. In my opinion.

And I stand by my comment, those who are not as proficient at the game, flaws and all, are the ones that are the least happy.

Poor Jimmy is all upset now. He's come into a thread called "Not Happy With PES 2012" and is outraged that there are people here complaining about the game. Dear oh dear.

I've added nothing positive? Yes James, because I think this year's game is shit. Haven't you worked that out yet? Your powers of observation really ARE poor aren't they? Give yourself a few months and you'll get it though. Just read my posts a few thousand times and let it all sink in slowly.

I am a PES fan of many years and I think PES 2012 is crap. Jimmy finds this point of view so offensive he resorts to name calling and telling me I know nothing about football. Yet in his world it is I who is the "classless ignorant troll" and a "bellend". Classy stuff James.

I know nothing about football yet Jimmy thinks that "sometimes, there's simply nothing you can do". I suppose that's what Sir Alex Ferguson said to his team after the Basle match then eh James? Shrugged his shoulders and said "Never mind lads, sometimes there's simply nothing you can do!". I'm sure in your mind he did.

Your other points just prove to me you are willing to put up with almost anything from PES and justify it to yourself somehow. You actually think cheating is acceptable in a game so long as it provides a challenge. Delve into your deep well of football knowledge and tell me if that theory translates into real life would you? If someone sticks the ball into the net with their hand and the ref allows it do the players and manager say "That's OK, I love a challenge me!" Or maybe they simply say "Well, sometimes there's simply nothing you can do lads!". Your warped perspective on AI cheating is a piece of nonsense. You will clearly defend this game to the hilt no matter what it does to you. You are so tightly bound to this game that you feel the need to personally insult people who disagree with you. Do you think that is healthy?

Final thought: If you cant stand people slagging PES 2012, stay out of the fucking "NOT HAPPY WITH PES 2012" thread!

 

[Northzzz]

No it doesnt, which is exactly my point.

Isn't it strange how some people have a problem, and others dont. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Yes it is strange

To be honest i know exactly what people mean when they say they can't aim shots but for me the truth lies somewhere in between both claims.I think people expect too much to be able to aim in whatever situation they find themselves in. There are a lot of times in real football where a shot at goal is what will suffice and generally if you watch football a hell of a lot of shots do end up going near the middle of the goal. If anything i like it. Under pressure, and you're basically constantly pressure in the game, it's fucking difficult to get a decent aim on your shot. That said there are specific times, like one v ones and generally when you find yourself not pressured like on the outside of the box, where the game doesn't seem to allow you to control the accuracy of the shot when it should be a lot easier. I think it's problematic here because there's no need for it so i can understand people's grievances.

Personally i think the finesse control shot is botched. Fifa does this much better in my opinion and that's the kind of shot that should have more accuracy than a normal shot given the inclusion to curl the ball. I can get it to work but it's far more of a struggle than it should be especially in 1 v 1 situations where you have plenty of time. I wouldn't like to be able to get perfect accuracy at any given time but when i have plenty of time on the ball i don't think you should struggle to aim your shot in either side of the goal as much as you currently do in PES.

 

[Northzzz]

I've made a video about the effects of the pitch conditions in PES2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQzm-zYbM8&feature=youtu.be

I admire that but i don't know what to make of it.

It's not really what i was talking about either but you have inadvertently highlighted my theory about whoever has a more ideal on-rails run will get the ball regardless of speed of the player. Whoever's run is more favourable to the ball will always get it. Players never fucking adapt their runs either because they have no anticipation. This is most evident at times when player run round other players take the long way round a player in the way instead of taking the one closer to where the ball is headed.

It kind of pisses me off because it feels so on-rails constantly. It'd be alleviated to an extent if the sprinting system was less basic. Your video also highlights how slow players look when they're chasing loose balls and how it's just this one speed. News flash Konami it's 2011 i don't understand why players still don't have any kind of dynamic speed. They run at one speed, they jog at one speed and they walk at one speed. That's 3 speeds that never fluctuate. Half the time playing this game players look like they're running in slow motion to catch up with the ball. The last thing i want is an overly fast game but why do we never see players busting a gut to get the ball at specific times. It's so annoying when your player is chasing a loose ball going out and gets it like 1mm over the line so it goes out for a throw in and you know if he had the natural ability to run a bit faster and try to get the ball, as you'd hope with anticipation of the situation he could see it might go out, then he'd sprint slightly faster. As would be the natural thing to happen in reality.

That's kind of what i was getting at too with the whole speed argument. Sprint speeds off the ball are a joke. I don't understand why Hernandez would struggle to reach a ball 5 yards in front of him or put some more speed into his run to chase the loose ball. They do such dis-justice to fast players. Obviously they'd have to adapt a real stamina system to counter sprint whores. I guess stuff like that, which would evolve the game, have been deduced to be unnecessary for Konami. Sigh.

 

[jpf7]

Final thought: If you cant stand people slagging PES 2012, stay out of the fucking "NOT HAPPY WITH PES 2012" thread!

I agree with this completely.

This thread's purpose is for people who find problems with the game to vent their frustration and in the main it has been done intelligently and articulately.

It is always going to end up in conflict if someone who actually likes the game for whatever reasons enters the debate and starts to try to defend the game. This is as logical as it gets.

Personally I think this years pes is the most out of control and lacking in freedom I have ever played.

To me, it feels like the game has its own mind as to what should happen in the match and I am simply a minor part in the proceedings.

It saddens me to say this, as up until last year I have defended pes no matter what but I cant defend it anymore.

To think we are this many games into the current gen technology and this is the best AI that konami can give us? Shocking, truly shocking.

 

[pj_puttz]

This thread's purpose is for people who find problems with the game to vent their frustration and in the main it has been done intelligently and articulately.

It is always going to end up in conflict if someone who actually likes the game for whatever reasons enters the debate and starts to try to defend the game. This is as logical as it gets.

That's exactly the reason I dont bother posting on the threads where Jimmy goes on and on for page after page about what a great game PES is and how much he is enjoying it.

If I went in there from time to time and posted "PES IS SHIT AND YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS!" he'd be the first person to condemn me but he seems to think it's OK for him to come in here and tell us we're shit at PES and are morons for not seeing what a great game it really is. Then he goes on about ME being a troll? The guy clearly only comes in here for an argument and when he gets one he blows his top!

His last post towards me was totally out of order I thought. No skin off my nose of course but the guy has serious issues in my opinion.

That said, I'd gladly accept his apology if he's man enough to offer one once he's calmed down.

 

[Northzzz]

A problem with deflected shots is that it stops the keeper from reacting for like 2 seconds even if the deflected shot is going in the same direction as the shot would have done anyway. It's simply scripted to happen like this. Case in point Kenwyne Jones shoots, it takes a little nick off of my defenders foot as it goes under his legs, the shot doesn't deviate from where is was heading anyway but Friedel simply stands still for about 2 seconds really unnaturally and doesn't react until it's too late (by which point he does one of those cool standing still dives). Had it not have taken the tiniest deflection i'm certain he probably would have saved it. The ball trickled into the back of the net, i'm sure you all know the kind of goal i mean. Let's be honest he had to time to adjust if it was real football but it looks like the game has to have him stop because the he was on-rails to save the initial shot and the deflection makes the game take the slightest time to adjust to the ever so slightly deflected shot. I've had this before a lot with ever so slightly deflected shots. I see too much of a pattern.

Anyway anticipation issues again. Konami need to stop with this on-rails shit. Every single issue i seem to have with the game is because of it. The game doesn't feel free at all.

Personally I think this years pes is the most out of control and lacking in freedom I have ever played.

To me, it feels like the game has its own mind as to what should happen in the match and I am simply a minor part in the proceedings.

I didn't see this post before i posted this one but well yeah there you go. Agreed completely.

 

[Northzzz]

That's exactly the reason I dont bother posting on the threads where Jimmy goes on and on for page after page about what a great game PES is and how much he is enjoying it.

If I went in there from time to time and posted "PES IS SHIT AND YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS!" he'd be the first person to condemn me but he seems to think it's OK for him to come in here and tell us we're shit at PES and are morons for not seeing what a great game it really is. Then he goes on about ME being a troll? The guy clearly only comes in here for an argument and when he gets one he blows his top!

His last post towards me was totally out of order I thought. No skin off my nose of course but the guy has serious issues in my opinion.

That said, I'd gladly accept his apology if he's man enough to offer one once he's calmed down.

Agreed. I'll go in there when i want to save something positive about the game. Jimmy should deal with the fact that certain people don't have the same overwhelming positive response to the game that he does. As puttz said if he or anybody went into that forum to vehemently protest how you were all wrong about something we'd be condemned. I don't see how you coming here and doing that is much different really.

I actually quite like debate and i don't think we should separate the two threads really because it's counter to that but it's clear that the reason we have to is that some people are far too unwilling to see the concerns of others and then rather than come to any kind of conclusion and people just argue and the forum descends into a less than friendly place.

I think Jimmy makes some good points from time to time but what i find annoying is that he is by far the least willing person on this forum to concede somebody else might make a good point if in someway it would affect his own.