The Master League adventures thread

Chris Davies said:
For me, it's wrong that it forces that same style on every team on Superstar (packing the box and forcing you to shoot from outside the box - which is useless on basic shooting by the way).

You see less team individuality as far as I'm concerned. Really glad I'm not too stubborn to have dropped down a difficulty - especially when it "unlocked" Sunderland so that they could play longer passes and less tiki-taka, and then beat me more comprehensively...

The weird thing is, though, that I found playing United on Superstar was no big deal - they didn't seem to play any differently than they should. It only seems to be the worse teams that play completely differently (like a 12-year-old spamming buttons)...

But it's all team-spirit-related, I'm sure it's great when you get it above 70!
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Yeh Superstar should have been programmed much better than it is. . ..it's very hard to get a passing game going. . all very stop start . .bump, fall .. loose ball etc . ..it seems to encourage long range shooting for some reason and yet the A.I wants to walk it into the net. . ah sure I still have my Sampdoria Top Player save to fall back on.
 
Chris Davies said:
For me, it's wrong that it forces that same style on every team on Superstar (packing the box and forcing you to shoot from outside the box - which is useless on basic shooting by the way).

But it's all team-spirit-related, I'm sure it's great when you get it above 70!
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Glad you added the reservation about TS, because otherwise the amount of weird folklore about superstar is starting to reach some sort of a limit in this thread.

After reading your posts I launched the game, superstar, full manual. Out of my next 12 (9) shots exactly 2 were from outside the box, and both of them were free kicks. TS 80.

Suggestion: play, think, experiment, rinse and repeat many times.

Edit. I think I still have Matt's 5 second fix edited for all teams, especially the "frontline pressure" part.
 
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I hope it's either low TS or first season syndrome because every match I have played on Superstar has been a 100 mile an hour El Classico . . .where's the build up play? zap ping zap goal. . . .The only build up is when it's reactionary . . .it's like the ball has come to me like a grenade with the pin out and I must get rid of it before 5 of them are on me and ping bang another goal. . .it doesn't feel like Serie A as on pro and Top player. . it's Spanish style football. . .I'm getting to passes that I shouldn't and having passes robbed from my foot when I'm about to think of a pass. I had to turn it off tonight I was that dizzy. . .so far it's dreadful especially the annoying 4 pass move and then chip to the forward leaping through the air to nod in from 2 yards .. . .. and you're allowed take as many potshots from outside the box as you like. Btw my TS is 38 I hope that's the main problem because I expected the A.I to use clever build up play and not what I'm experiencing.
 
@Deco

In my couple of last matches CPU pass rate percentage has varied between 70 and 90. So there is a good deal of variation in rates, styles of play, difficulty.

Yesterday had a match where the CPU decided to go for full blown possession play. Fortunately I have learned the virtue of patience to deal with all my vices.
 
James Beaver said:
@Deco

In my couple of last matches CPU pass rate percentage has varied between 70 and 90. So there is a good deal of variation in rates, styles of play, difficulty.

Yesterday had a match where the CPU decided to go for full blown possession play. Fortunately I have learned the virtue of patience to deal with all my vices.
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James I'm playing in Serie A against some of the best players in the world . . .they pass and shoot with surgical precision . . . no matter which style of play that I play at the moment it's disrupted . .it's not about possession more like stop them getting a hold of the ball or they'll launch a speedy attack and score . ..I noticed my passing isn't as accurate and the ball ain't going where it should. . .I'm blaming TS for the moment . .. .It can be depressing and off putting. . .. my approach to each match goes out the window after a couple of mins.
 
Deco said:
it's not about possession more like stop them getting a hold of the ball or they'll launch a speedy attack and score
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In the spirit of considering this as a problem solving challenge: care to share a video?

Edit. If Serie A frustrates you, why not play some lower league?
 
James Beaver said:
In the spirit of considering this as a problem solving challenge: care to share a video?

Edit. If Serie A frustrates you, why not play some lower league?
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I like Italian football. ... I'm putting it down to sluggish play from my team because of low TS .. here's a short clip of the type of thing that I'm talking about.


Very hard to defend against.
 
James Beaver said:
@Deco

You have your A/D on green. I would strongly suggest fixing that first. You can't give superstar that much space.
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James I adjust it all through the match . .when I have it low they maraud into the box. . ..the bizarre thing is if I put it to orange they stop attacking and retreat?
 
It's 100% team spirit related (I can prove that, as @Deco has already said, by starting an ML as a team with great TS and discovering a completely different gameplay experience).

I'm convinced the way that team spirit works is heavily linked to the level of the team you're playing, with slightly crazy results.

I played Southampton away on Top Player last night, and it finished 0-0, but I had 14 shots to their 3, and I was disappointed because it was unrealistically easy. So I quit the game and restarted (must be the first time I've ever quit the game without saving because I felt like it was me cheating).

I played them on Superstar, and their build-up play was - and I don't say this lightly - bullshit. No time to react to anything, no time to plan. It was the extreme opposite.

Let me clarify - I am NOT SAYING tiki-taka isn't realistic, or that I don't want to see it even from Premier League teams, but what Southampton were doing WAS NOT TIKI-TAKA. It was psychic, no-looking, first-time passes strung together 3-4 in a row, the kind of stuff 12-year-old FIFA players do with Accrington Stanley by spamming buttons.

So, the next game (on Superstar), I played United in the league, with no changes, and it was a walkover. For ME (HULL). I ended up winning 3-0 (BUT the goals were two headers and a shot from outside the box, I still couldn't dribble inside their box). Again, the extreme opposite end of the scale.

So, again, I quit the game, replayed it on Top Player, and guess what... I got beat 2-0. Didn't stand a chance.

It's almost as if, with a poor TS (or at least between 50-65), the game "flips" what should happen. In my experience...

With TS <70, against the average teams, it's not a big challenge on Top Player and unrealistically, frustratingly spammy on Superstar. Against the big teams, it's the exact opposite.

With TS >70, I suspect that "button-spam" doesn't happen so much and the game generally feels wonderful. Though I wonder if it gets too easy (I'll never manage a big team anyway, don't enjoy it)...
 
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I became so intrigued by our discussion about superstar and team spirit that I just made a little test.

I started a new ML in Serie A, controlling Palermo. First match away against Chievoverona. They are not one of the big ones, but still stronger than us.

I subbed in the guys who were in the best form and switched to concervative pressing. Team spirit 46. Played the first half. Didn't know any of the guys, so played very straightforward, down to earth football. Here are the highlights.


This demonstrates that a team spirit of < 50 doesn't automatically result in a disaster.

This is a complicated game. Playing against superstar can be horrible in some matches. But there are very few absolutes, things that would hold in general, in every match, always, regardless of what you do. And the most important thing I have learned is that a problem practically always suggests that there is room for improvement in the way I play.
 
Nice video, thank you for adding that to the discussion!

I'm in two minds, I really am. Especially when, in my experience, the choice is sometimes between two extremes. That Southampton game I mentioned - it was truly a choice between domination or being button-spammed. No in-between. I don't know which I prefer, but I feel cheated on Top Player so... Superstar it is.

I can't wait to get my team spirit up - if I play the original squad, I can get it up to 65, but then my younger players will never improve, and I'll be outpaced by every other team in the league.

Still, I wanted a challenge, that's what I've got, and I'm (on the whole) loving it. It's a beautiful game, truly.

I knew that, gameplay-wise, there was "another level" out there that we didn't have - PES 2017 is it, for me. The best football game in years, and it makes me feel vindicated for not really liking the PES games of the last few years.

There's still another level we can reach - PES 2017 with physics that mean a "looser" ball, even more team/player variety, a Master League with more to do... An online mode that's not just FIFA Ultimate Team.

I'm excited for next year already - but at the same time, nervous that they'll somehow take more steps backwards...
 
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James Beaver said:
I became so intrigued by our discussion about superstar and team spirit that I just made a little test.

I started a new ML in Serie A, controlling Palermo. First match away against Chievoverona. They are not one of the big ones, but still stronger than us.

I subbed in the guys who were in the best form and switched to concervative pressing. Team spirit 46. Played the first half. Didn't know any of the guys, so played very straightforward, down to earth football. Here are the highlights.


This demonstrates that a team spirit of < 50 doesn't automatically result in a disaster.

This is a complicated game. Playing against superstar can be horrible in some matches. But there are very few absolutes, things that would hold in general, in every match, always, regardless of what you do. And the most important thing I have learned is that a problem practically always suggests that there is room for improvement in the way I play.
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I have parts on my videos as well where I'm winning 2-0 and dominating until out of nowhere they score 2 to equalize. . .or am winning and end up getting beaten. .. but my point was about the ping pong type of perfect passing that leaves you with no chance of touching the ball or getting in a tackle. . . it drove me nuts last night. I assume I'll improve because it is a step up from TP and will learn how to suss out their next move . .. it's still a great game . . .my main objective was to find out if my experience is common with other SS players.
 
Deco said:
but my point was about the ping pong type of perfect passing that leaves you with no chance of touching the ball or getting in a tackle. . . it drove me nuts last night. I assume I'll improve because it is a step up from TP and will learn how to suss out their next move . .. it's still a great game . . .my main objective was to find out if my experience is common with other SS players.
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Sorry if I addressed the wrong issue. Hard to keep track with all these Christmasy things going on.

From my experience, up to TS 87, there will always be periods of perfect CPU possession. I think of it as an equivalent of prolonged possession in real football, but they could have modeled it better.

Some gamers break these periods by predicting the next move (pass) of the CPU, and I think that's very effective. I don't like that approach, though: the imagination of the CPU is limited. Instead I play the front man, trying to close them down and pressuring when it is feasible.

In real defensive football there are often long periods where the defensive team doesn't try to pressure the player with possession because of the risk of opening up space / being dribbled. I try to act the same way.
 
Haven't won one match in 14 League games and that's with the Club's real players . . .absolute nonsense . . .why does Konami do this in the first season? I'm heading for relegation . .if I do I'll give this Game a long rest.
 
Deco said:
Haven't won one match in 14 League games and that's with the Club's real players . . .absolute nonsense . . .why does Konami do this in the first season? I'm heading for relegation . .if I do I'll give this Game a long rest.
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Hey buddy, did you by any chance get new players into your squad, if you got several playing depending on who you got, game can be tough, I had a similar experience to yours, i decided to control Liverpool with real players and bought 3 new players in and played them all in my team and struggled for half a season, I then focused on team roles and effects and I took out two of the players I bought and team plays a lot better.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
Hey buddy, did you by any chance get new players into your squad, if you got several playing depending on who you got, game can be tough, I had a similar experience to yours, i decided to control Liverpool with real players and bought 3 new players in and played them all in my team and struggled for half a season, I then focused on team roles and effects and I took out two of the players I bought and team plays a lot better.
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Thanks for your advice Jimi . . .. in the last few ML's that I've played the first season is always the worst, not only in terms of Team Spirit but the scripting goes nuts. . I bought one decent player .Gabriel. .who hasn't exactly set the place alight .I thought with the real club players that it would be different but apparently it's not which proves that it's scripted that way because a team of real players should be a hell of a lot better than the defaults . .but the results are identical. ..I actually won one match tonight after my last post. .I beat Palermo 1-0 and I don't know how I hung on . .kitchen sink job. I hate the way the game forces you to play a certain way to boost TS. . . . .I'll take your advice and hopefully survive the drop. . . the shame of it all.
 
Deco said:
Thanks for your advice Jimi . . .. in the last few ML's that I've played the first season is always the worst, not only in terms of Team Spirit but the scripting goes nuts. . I bought one decent player .Gabriel. .who hasn't exactly set the place alight .I thought with the real club players that it would be different but apparently it's not which proves that it's scripted that way because a team of real players should be a hell of a lot better than the defaults . .but the results are identical. ..I actually won one match tonight after my last post. .I beat Palermo 1-0 and I don't know how I hung on . .kitchen sink job. I hate the way the game forces you to play a certain way to boost TS. . . . .I'll take your advice and hopefully survive the drop. . . the shame of it all.
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Lol I bought Gabriel as well maybe he is the problem team didn't gel well, also do you have a player in your team that is a bandiera, cos if you put that player as captain, your TS can get a boost as much as +20, having certain players captain and players on field effects TS in a big way, look into it more deeper as what the role effects do, cause you could have an average player on the bench but can boost your teams TS if you have him on the field as well as captain, experiment by putting players in that effect TS regardless how good or crap they are, see how u go, good luck
 
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Jimi_Zuko said:
Lol I bought Gabriel as well maybe he is the problem team didn't gel well, also do you have a player in your team that is a bandiera, cos if you put that player as captain, your TS can get a boost as much as +20, having certain players captain and players on field effects TS in a big way, look into it more deeper as what the role effects do, cause you could have an average player on the bench but can boost your teams TS if you have him on the field as well as captain, experiment by putting players in that effect TS regardless how good or crap they are, see how u go, good luck
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What the hell is a Bandiera? Sounds like a Mexican outlaw. . .I have one player who has the captain's attribute and a few other great attributes but he's incredibly slow . . .he's in decline and his speed is 59 or something. . .I have to look into what you have said . . thanks buddy.
 
Deco said:
How's the PC version going? Are you switching over for good?
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I still think it plays extremely well. And I am taking advantage of easy access to mods, so I took the British road, trying to get a team promoted to the Premier league.

A funny thing is that the PC version runs silent, while the PS4 version makes the fan run like crazy. It isn't just cosmetics, because the noise from the fan of the PS4 actually forces me to amp up other sounds in order to hear them at all.

But I do miss the built-in video recording of the PS4. And my large screen tv, naturally.

Back to general gameplay. I think one defining feature of superstar is the heavy momentum scripting. It is difficult to win matches because when you go one up, the momentum swings their way, and it's highly likely they will equalize unless you can score again. It's not impossible to survive these periods of momentum scripting, but it's laborious and requires extra attention. Ss matches are often the best when the situation is 0-0.

But other than these momentum spells: excellent.

At least on the PC the Championship plays really well. I have seen very few superman moments by the CPU. Surprisingly close to real football. But I have to play defensively in almost every match, because ss is so good at utilizing space in their offensive third, particularly if we lose possession in midfield. Playing manual, we are bound to occasionally give the ball away in our half.
 
The Championship in ML was a bit of a revelation for me,with the added plus that I did not know the play-offs existed in the game.
 
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