The Euro 2020 Thread

Dear English friends. You should be proud of your team. They were fabulously good in both the 2018 WC and this Euro's. You lost the final to the best team in the tournament, but they were there for the taking, especially in the first half. I think the early lead wasn't necessary an advantage. What Southgate should have done after the 1-0 is make a more offensive substitution, but i understand that he didn't because that is very unusual.

With a more positive coach you could have beaten Italy. Is Southgate to blame? With hindsight and from a sofa everybody is an Alex Ferguson, even me. I think Southgate has enormous merits. He created a rather positive feeling around your national team and that has proved to be a giant leap forward. Southgate is an intelligent and wonderfull person, but he will always be the defender who wants to avoid goals first and then perhaps hoping to score one or maybe two.

But Italy isn't the Ukraïne. Italians on a football pitch never give up. They perfectly know how far they can go too far (Chielini on Saka and Jorginho on Grealish are two fine examples) and by sitting deep your team invited them to come and Italian teams will always score the odd goal if you do that. For me after the equaliser England where once again the better team but why didn't both teams attack more. It seems that in prolongations teams prefer the lottery of penalties instead of going for the winning goal. Just like in the first half, the Italians were their for the taking, but they showed more maturity than your young team. Your team lacked what our Belgian team lacks, a cynical leader like Chielini, Bonucci, Jorginho or Verrati. I'm not sure i see an English player who can play this role (we have one but Martinez hates him: Nainggolan).

What should your FA do? Southgate should get a promotion and be director of football to oversee all the English teams and he should be replaced by a more positive coach. But Southgate doesn't deserve the blame, he deserves praise.

I also hope that the biggest enemies of English football won't cause too much damage, your tabloïds. I would be ashamed to be a journalist writing for papers like The Sun and others. I hope they leave players like Rashford, Sancho and Saka alone because they took their responsabilty and penalties are always a lottery.

With this team you can win silverware and it's still a young squad, you got tons of talent.

Finally i want to write something about the powers that be. In this instance UEFA. It's a shame that in a pandemic they insisted on playing a tournament that was played all over Europe. I hope i'm wrong but i think this tournament will have worsened the situation all over Europe. And then there was the blackmail of UEFA where they were threatening to play the last 3 matches in Budapest. Frankly i don't have words for Ceferin and his clique. They should be ashamed, but they don't know what shame is. All what they are doing and thinking is motivated by greed. Shame on you UEFA. You were the big losers of this tournament.
 
Chris Davies said:
The only thing I can't get past is the subs. Why not take tiring players off? Why put on subs in the last second of extra time and expect them to be able to score a pen, without having touched the ball up to that point? They're going to be totally headfucked (especially with the pressure of playing for England and ending a 55-year trophyless run)... That really makes me angry.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this didn't look right to ne either.
Especially waiting until minute 119 before putting in players, knowing that they'll not have the time to get their head around the match (and so to "biuild up" some concentration and to relieve some pressure) before being called on the spot for the penalty.
 
What a night. Another traditional England failure of early goal curse, What if's, questionable referee decisions and uncomfortable looking penalties.

I know it must feel impossible for some to criticise Southgate because he got us to a final, but unfortunately there must still be an inquest as with all failure in life, why didn't we succeed?

I think the deep defensive possessive football is not for us. That works with very specific squads. Mourinho was successful with this at Porto, Chelsea & Inter because he had strong, ultra fit players who could play that way for 120 minutes 7 days a week and who were warriors. Our England team isn't that and we've seen them get very weary and very tired because of this especially against stronger opposition.

Not to mention the substitutes. I think Southgate did a Sven here and left it way to late to change the game. As i mentioned a lot of players were clearly exhausted and ineffective. Grealish coming on in extra time was a joke and Rashford/Sancho coming on with 2 minutes left was just disgusting. What an insult. I agree with the other poster who said Sterling needs to release the ball much earlier but again it can feel hard to criticise him when he's scored so many winning goals but it's the truth too.

Pickford put in a heroic performance and if it wasn't for him we'd have lost by a greater margin. And saving Jorginho's decisive penalty really did start giving me Istanbul feelings for a moment that this would be fate and we'd turn it around just in painful fashion.

Of course the circus penalty styles deserve to ridicules even Jorginho's but other than that analysing penalties is like analysing cloudy weather, it'll either rain or it won't.

All in all, it's just a game, but to give everyone in the nation a common interest for a few weeks was special and none of us expected to get this far. Of course, the further you go, the bitter the stop tastes.
 
Reacting to some of the recent comments:

- I didn't think it was that great a game. Strip away the occasion, atmosphere and the theatre of penalties and it was pretty low key. I would say - as a football match - the Copa America final was more absorbing.

- I thought the Euros was really quite exciting overall. I can only think of Slovakia vs Sweden being an absolutely rotten game. Largely speaking the knockout games were excellent, and the Spain/Croatia/France/Switzerland day will live in the memory for a long, long time.

- I'll always be an advocate of safe standing and don't believe last night should change anything. It was a truly exceptional occasion yesterday and rail seating makes any overcrowding safer by vastly reducing the risk of falling forward over a seat. The open terracing and caging of old is incomparable.

- Booking for Chiellini was correct. Wasn't a clear goalscoring opportunity with two Italy defenders as cover. Jorginho, however, can consider himself very lucky.

- I can't fathom Southgate's decisions. Seemed to be set up well but as the game developed it was crying out for more pace and ball-carrying, options they have. And was Rice injured? England's best player on the night. Also confused by some of Mancini's choices. Insigne and Verratti didn't look hurt or tired before coming off, at a time when they were causing major damage.
 
Last edited:
Pfffft … 😤

Hindsight is a b*tch.

however, I can quite clearly remember during the game, I was almost screaming at the tv for someone to make a fucking run in behind. For about an hour. Still shocked at how abysmal we were. Totally carried on the wave of emotion for the two and half hours … it’s only now with a calmer head that I reflect on us being utterly shambolic. The fact that we had 1 shot on target in the entire match, our 3rd minute goal, at Home, in a FINAL! is a disgrace. An utter disgrace. I spent last night doing the positive thinking and the pride yada yada
“at the end of the day” we fucked it. Or was it Gareth. I honestly don’t know. I’m still bamboozeld. The penalties. The subs. Saka taking one. Another rolling sub. Sterling and Kane playing 120 minutes yet Sterling didn’t step up … or grealish … Christ.
From about the 20th minute Kane was 15 yards outside his own box. for all the good we’ve done to absolutely bottle it the way they did is incredibly hard to take and the final leaves nothing but a bitter taste in the mouth, for what was otherwise an absolutely fantastic euros.

don’t get me wrong, I understand Italy were the best team at the tournament. And due congratulations to them. Phenomenal from day 1. But yesterday, it was ours to take … and we threw it. To grab a goal so early and FORCE Italy into attacking us was incredibly lucky. And we managed to take the finest bit of luck our country’s football team has had for over half a century (apart from that dive in the semi obviously 😂) and turn it into an absolute nightmare haha …

im afraid there’s only one person to blame. And it pains me to say it. But he blew it. I mean…
ah I can’t even.

Drained. Gutted and drained. I thought my head was clearer but I’m still as furious and perplexed as I was last night.

arrivederci euros. As great as you were, you won’t be missed.

P.S Maybe if sir Marcus rashford wasn’t so concerned with feeding the nations poorest and most vulnerable children he might be able to take a decent penalty. Idiot 🙄

✌️😝
 
I can't seem to find the joke on the last paragraph of the post before me 🤔

Or is it some kind of sarcasm?
What have feeding people in need have to do with that one kick?

I know you're upset man, but this isn't it. Grow up.
 
Last edited:
Chris Davies said:
Even Maguire taking the second penalty... What the fuck was going on.

(Also. Can the manager please stop the stupid run-ups. They never end well. JUST HIT THE COCKING BALL. Give yourself one less thing to worry about.)
Click to expand...

Ironically Maguire's penalty was the best of the lot as well. Why were the likes of Grealish and Sterling letting a teenager step up to take a penalty ahead of them? And what was Southgate thinking having him take the fifth penalty which was very likely going to be decisive and coming with massive pressure.

Totally agree re the run ups. Pick a corner, hit it hard and the keeper cannot save it. Why play cat and mouse with the keeper. As Jorginho found out, Pickford didn't fall for it and then had an easy save to make.

Chris Davies said:
For those England fans who remember Euro 96 more vividly than I do... How long does it take to stop hurting...
Click to expand...

25 years at at last count :BLINK: More seriously a while, usually until the next one!


Stan said:
For me after the equaliser England where once again the better team but why didn't both teams attack more. It seems that in prolongations teams prefer the lottery of penalties instead of going for the winning goal.
Click to expand...

I had an idea on this last night as most extra times have become seeing the game out until penalties it seems. How about this?

During extra time the team who has most shots on target from inside the box (so as to stop just punting tame shots from 35 yds to count) gets an extra penalty that can be used if it's level after 5 penalties. So first the usual 5 penalties and if one team wins by then that's it, however if it's level after the first five the team who had the most shots on target in extra time get a penalty to win it. Miss it and we're back to sudden death. Just might be a way of getting teams to go for the win in extra time.


@MafiaMurderBag Great post. Sums up exactly where I'm at with it too. He done a great job getting the team to the final, but his management style reminds me so much of what I watched for four seasons with Kenny Jackett. Caution first. Get ahead, sit back and invite pressure instead of continuing the dominance and looking for a second goal. If the other team equalises then he never seemed to have any idea of how to change it for the better. Poor use of subs, if using them at all and always the same players changed. It was honestly like watching that last night. So often the results clouded over the performances, again not unlike this tournament.

How many times did Maguire dribble out a bit last night then have absolutely nobody to hit because Kane and Sterling were being asked to sit so deep?

Then there's Chiellini, a great defender, but 36, at the end of a long tournament and no doubt fatigued and then on a yellow as well and for us not once look to run at him or go in behind him was terrible with the players we had on the bench to do exactly that.

I'm not screaming Southgate must go, but there's so much talent in that squad being stifled or not used. The balance is too defensive, we have so much to make other teams worried but instead we look to stop them rather than let them worry about us.
 
I'm still not sold on "Southgate is the problem". Fourth, third and second-place finishes in his last three tournaments. If I'd achieved that on Football Manager and got sacked, I'd be fairly pissed off... :D

I really feel like people think this team is better than it is. Let's rewind a month or so, when the team selection was announced. Who genuinely thought Kalvin Phillips would be able to cope against the best players in Europe, @superleeds1 aside? ;)

Seriously, though. The thought of Stones and/or Mings at the back, Shaw (who has proved me wrong in a massive way), Phillips and Rice (again, both fantastic for us, and the final was Rice's best game IMO)... Even Sterling had been dropped at City.

I think we're closer to Denmark in individual quality than we are to the likes of France, Italy, Germany or Spain. If Denmark finished fourth, third and second in the last three tournaments, their manager would be lauded as a genius. But IMO, because of 1966, we (wrongly) expect more.

We have some great club-level players, but world class? Excluding Sterling (who couldn't beat a man last night) and Kane (who, as a striker, was non-existent in several games), I don't see it. Compare our team man-to-man against others and I think we come up far short.

AND YET. We were winning consistently. Grinding it out or otherwise - because with the quality of this group of players, that's what we have to do. I truly believe that. As I said yesterday, if you win, you're doing it right. The win is all that matters.

Yet, people seem to be arguing that (outside of the final) we need to do ... more than win? Some of the comments (not on here, but on Twitter) have left me scratching my head. All the talk of how much more attacking we should have been all tournament... We won all our games, except vs Scotland (and Denmark took extra time, granted). What do you want? For us to have won by more goals? Why?

People are saying we should have been more attacking. We were winning games 1-0 here and 1-0 there, against (frankly) mediocre opposition. If we'd have approached those games in a more attacking manner, I really think we'd have been "found out".

If we'd won in the shootout, we wouldn't be feeling this way - or at least, not as strongly. I think a lot of this wave is just based on how emotionally charged we (England fans) all are right now.

The thing I will concede is the penalty takers situation. That will haunt me forever, Gazza-not-quite-getting-on-the-end-of-the-cross style. Because it makes literally no sense to me. I would love him to explain how the takers ended up being a striker, a centre-back, two players who had about ten touches of the ball all tournament, and a child.
 
Absolutely Gutted!! another bad night to put with the rest. I got slaughtered afterwards on Sambuca (the Irony).

I thought when Saka came on he looked nothing like the player we have seen, he seemed, maybe overcome by the occasion, but he didn't look as confident.
I certainly wouldn't have put the responsibility of a penalty on his young shoulders. Cannot fault Pickford though, He gave us a great chance to win that shootout. Also the Italians equaliser was very fortunate.
We should have took them out during the first half. It is what it is though, our lack to finish a job, and allowing the other team within touching distance to come back.
We have seen this style of play so many times under other England managers.

Ahh well back to the prem soon. ;) Rainy days at Brentford and the like. :LOL:

Oh yes i almost forgot "Forza Azzuri" :TU:
 
England had a relatively easy journey and some luck during the tournament but that luck ran out last night. The blame should not be on Rashford, Sancho and Saka. The entire team should have won the game in 90 minutes and the manager made some penalty decision blunders.
 
Chris Davies said:
I'm still not sold on "Southgate is the problem". Fourth, third and second-place finishes in his last three tournaments. If I'd achieved that on Football Manager and got sacked, I'd be fairly pissed off... :D.
Click to expand...

Southgate did for 2018 and this summer what no England manager had achieved since Terry Vegetables (sic) and that's to bring an England team together. There are better tacticians within England's reach but at what cost. I'm with you, Chris. I don't think Southgate is the problem, but he certainly has problems. If he learns from this then he's the best man for the job.
 
Chris Davies said:
All the talk of how much more attacking we should have been all tournament... We won all our games, except vs Scotland (and Denmark took extra time, granted). What do you want? For us to have won by more goals? Why?
Click to expand...
The way I see it (and I cant see very clearly as I havent slept a wink) is that more... brave(?) approach throughout the tournament would create more attacking mindset.
You are right - as long as you are winning - very few will point it out.

But

If you play against team like Italy, which was like a bunch of some fucking ice cold terminators - scoring a goal and then retreating is a very risky move. Everything that Italy was doing on the pitch was calm and calculated.
There was a moment where England had 5 shot while Italy had 19(!)
You cant play this way against team like this. The only way to disturb their slow and methodical conquest was to open up and scare them a little.
And thats what, imo, Southgate failed to see.
 
Emroth said:
The way I see it (and I cant see very clearly as I havent slept a wink) is that more... brave(?) approach throughout the tournament would create more attacking mindset.
You are right - as long as you are winning - very few will point it out.

But

If you play against team like Italy, which was like a bunch of some fucking ice cold terminators - scoring a goal and then retreating is a very risky move. Everything that Italy was doing on the pitch was calm and calculated.
There was a moment where England had 5 shot while Italy had 19(!)
You cant play this way against team like this. The only way to disturb their slow and methodical conquest was to open up and scare them a little.
And thats what, imo, Southgate failed to see.
Click to expand...
I see where you're coming from, of course - but even then, the game plan "worked" in that we didn't get beat throughout 120 minutes. Of course, the game plan ultimately failed, but only because of the penalty scenario...

...that's the one thing that he categorically - and surely unarguably - got wrong.

I am desperate for him to explain what happened there, because I just cannot figure out any of the logic (from the last-second subs to the takers). Saka needs to be protected by the media and (more importantly) the fans. Absolutely shocking that he was expected to take a penalty, let alone in one of the most crucial "slots".
 
Chris Davies said:
I see where you're coming from, of course - but even then, we got to penalties. The game plan ultimately failed, because we lost, but the game plan through 90 minutes and through extra time didn't lose us the match.

The only thing that did was the penalties, and that's the one thing that he categorically, and surely unarguably, got wrong.

I am desperate for him to explain what happened there. Saka needs to be protected by the media and (more importantly) the fans. Absolutely shocking that he was expected to take a penalty, let alone in one of the most crucial "slots".
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. But it was borderline a fluke that he got to penalties..
Now imagine that he sees that Italy are like robots and its getting more and more threatening by the minute..
He decides to scare them a little. He puts Sancho and Rashford at the start of extra time.
1. They are fast and can be very dangerous on the counters, which straight away forces Italy to be more careful at the back
2. Both of them get a proper warm up before it gets to penalties.

I think he was simply too careful. And didnt act.
But hey - Im only Peppe Marty'ola on the sofa, so I might as well be talking shite.. :LOL: dont mind me. :LOL:
 
rockstrongo said:
This is the championship where I went from "Chiellini merda" to a mancrush on him.
This one Vs the spurs guy.
Love it.
Click to expand...

Oh how I love that man (Chiellini). My girlfriend does now, too. To be honest he can have her as long as I get a good selfie.

Kane has become a really nasty player over the last few years. Every trick in the book. The gamesmanship is one thing but he seems more than happy to deliberately injure opponents as well.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Oh how I love that man (Chiellini). My girlfriend does now, too. To be honest he can have her as long as I get a good selfie.

Kane has become a really nasty player over the last few years. Every trick in the book. The gamesmanship is one thing but he seems more than happy to deliberately injure opponents as well.
Click to expand...
Giorgio seems like the one you want doing your BBQ and tell stories over a few beers.
Yes,I've had a long lasting dislike for Harry,diving left and right,did a few last night (at least went down very easily),same goes for Raheem,he spent 90 mins looking for a leg to trip over.
 
Don't let all these distract you from the fact that Euro final should be between Italy & Denmark. Sterling was never fouled in the box and that penalty should have never been awarded. VAR should have been used but it was never.
 
Emroth said:
The way I see it (and I cant see very clearly as I havent slept a wink) is that more... brave(?) approach throughout the tournament would create more attacking mindset.
You are right - as long as you are winning - very few will point it out.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I made the analogy to Kenny Jackett. It's exactly what we had for four seasons, good results covering up a very limited game plan that got found out in the play offs every time. Not to go off topic but 20 minutes to go in a play off semi final, a goal down and nothing, no subs with 2 still available, no kitchen sink thrown at it just continue the same way and go out with a wimper. Frustrating as hell. That's how I felt last night when the game was there to be put to bed at 1-0 up early on and well on top.




Chris Davies said:
I'm still not sold on "Southgate is the problem". Fourth, third and second-place finishes in his last three tournaments. If I'd achieved that on Football Manager and got sacked, I'd be fairly pissed off... :D
Click to expand...

I think part of where I'm coming from is I've reached a point where I want to be at least partly entertained and we have the players to do that.

I think we can all agree that game was there to be won last night after that start. I could understand the approach had we gone 2-0 up but at 1-0 it was just inviting Italy back into the game. We were on top, Kane was dropping short and getting the ball and we had Trippier, Sterling, Mount, Shaw and even Walker on the goal, making forward runs. Italy were all over the place, losing their shape and struggling to contain us. Then we stopped, sat back had Kane and Sterling half way inside our half and let them play their game.
 
It was a tight, nervous match, as easily predictable. Our defensive movements on Shaw's goal were awful, but it was maybe the only big mistake we made defensively in all the match. Thought it was almost over after that first half- England has been incredibly good in scoring and covering so far in the tourney. Luckily for us it didn't work in the second half, where with subs and you guys losing field without ever countering we were able to produce the pressure, and ultimately the episode of the draw.

Not a big fan of this very modern false nine variation I've seen both with Spain and yesterday evening- I mean it can generally work fine if you have wingers and omfs capable of scoring, and it will give you the midfield superiority, true, but you'll leave the box, well, empty. How many times Kane contested a cross? Don't get me wrong he looks great even 20 meters behind, but I don't know, I think football is simple and somebody with those characteristics should mostly play in the box or around it. But it's just a personal taste.

Back to the game, was pretty confident that if it were to go to penalties, we would have had the upper hand. Donnarumma is just an alien. I also think the whole subbing in penalty takers right before the shootouts is more bad than good. I don't have stats, but I have more memories of said last second subs failing their shoot than the opposite.

In the end, it's trivial to say it could have gone either way. England is a great, young team and I'm sure will be very competitive in next WC. Big props to Southgate. Regarding us.. if I think about what Mancini done with this group after 2018.. simply crazy. Still hating that he never started Locatelli and that Immobile looked bad, playing a complete different system than 3-5-2 Lazio.. should open another parenthesis about all the out of place shit Ciro took and is still taking from our media and so called fans, but I'll leave it at that, this tourney was a masterpiece. The joy was too great, on par with 2006 and maybe even higher cause winning away from home in this conditions does have a different taste.

Genuinely sorry for you fair supporters of England. Loved reading (almost) all your takes during this tourney and I know how much it hurts to wait for a victory and especially to lose it like that in your own home. But honestly medias and many other fans talked like this final like it was a formality, I think that's an attitude that more times than not in football come back bite you in the ass. Doesn't apply if to most if any of you of course.
 
@mattmid totally agree, and thanks, because i was going to type a similar response to Chris.
I say make hay while the sun shines, because Italy needed half time.
You could see Mancini, livid on the touchline, i lip read he said "Fangoola" (Sorry if i misspelled it) so he wasn't happy.
Then talk about a game of two halves, they got on top and pressured us to the max. Even after the equaliser we had allowed them to build up that much momentum, they came at us again like we were playing in Rome.

I have also heard that Penalty takers volunteer to take them. However there comes a time when the manager has to say "not this time". Maybe some didn't fancy it. I suppose we may never know.
 
@Emroth brought this to my attention earlier, in-case England fans haven't seen it yet:



I really want Southgate to explain what the hell he was thinking on this one. It makes no sense.
 
@Chris Davies If that's true from Grealish it's even more of a strange decision. Maybe Saka buried every penalty he took in practice I don't know but still.

They said in commentary that they practiced them every day in training so surely some kind of list must have been drawn up already and only needed adjusting by who's actually on the pitch at the time?
 
mattmid said:
@Chris Davies If that's true from Grealish it's even more of a strange decision. Maybe Saka buried every penalty he took in practice I don't know but still.

They said in commentary that they practiced them every day in training so surely some kind of list must have been drawn up already and only needed adjusting by who's actually on the pitch at the time?
Click to expand...
Even so. If you're the manager and you think Saka's brilliant penalties (on the training pitch) will translate to a brilliant penalty when the weight of a nation is on his shoulders (especially when you make him the FINAL penalty taker), at his age, when he's never even taken a penalty for his club before, then you're an idiot. And I don't say that lightly, because I will passionately defend every other decision he's made this Euro's. But this one defies all logic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom