The Euro 2020 Thread

3 November 2009
England
Liverpool FC
Reacting to some of the recent comments:

- I didn't think it was that great a game. Strip away the occasion, atmosphere and the theatre of penalties and it was pretty low key. I would say - as a football match - the Copa America final was more absorbing.



- I can't fathom Southgate's decisions. Seemed to be set up well but as the game developed it was crying out for more pace and ball-carrying, options they have. And was Rice injured? England's best player on the night. Also confused by some of Mancini's choices. Insigne and Verratti didn't look hurt or tired before coming off, at a time when they were causing major damage.
It wasn't an exciting game for neutrals no, But of course when your own is playing in a rare high stakes game you'll always have a heightened sense of emotional investment.

So much so that yes while we're investigating the England decision making it's easy to overlook the Italian ones too. Chiesa looked like it was exagerating until he was subsitiuted until it becomes clear that he may well know his own body better than the viewers and Manchini had to make a call corrobrates it.

Still alongside Verratti and Insigne, That trio were really causing problems for us but the latter 2 I was surprised to see go of as unless they were injured, they didn't look enthusiastic about being replaced either, like they knew they had more inconvenience in the tank for us to come.

You know bad when you're relived to see them go off, Which only illuminates how much we threw it away when they made negative changes and we didn't positive ones much earlier.
I can't seem to find the joke on the last paragraph of the post before me 🤔

Or is it some kind of sarcasm?
What have feeding people in need have to do with that one kick?

I know you're upset man, but this isn't it. Grow up.
Yeah that was a terrible take. Rashford went above and beyond what most athletes have any right to do so really and if anybody deserved a statue being erected of him it shouldn't be Kane or Sterling for getting us to a final, it Should be Marcus for using his influence to make a transformative difference when he could've just forgotten about his troubled childhood and say "Well I'm good now who cares."

I'm far from a virtue signaller too but he doesn't get anywhere near enough recognition to be honest.
Ironically Maguire's penalty was the best of the lot as well. Why were the likes of Grealish and Sterling letting a teenager step up to take a penalty ahead of them? And what was Southgate thinking having him take the fifth penalty which was very likely going to be decisive and coming with massive pressure.

@MafiaMurderBag Great post. Sums up exactly where I'm at with it too. He done a great job getting the team to the final, but his management style reminds me so much of what I watched for four seasons with Kenny Jackett. Caution first. Get ahead, sit back and invite pressure instead of continuing the dominance and looking for a second goal. If the other team equalises then he never seemed to have any idea of how to change it for the better. Poor use of subs, if using them at all and always the same players changed. It was honestly like watching that last night. So often the results clouded over the performances, again not unlike this tournament.

How many times did Maguire dribble out a bit last night then have absolutely nobody to hit because Kane and Sterling were being asked to sit so deep?

Then there's Chiellini, a great defender, but 36, at the end of a long tournament and no doubt fatigued and then on a yellow as well and for us not once look to run at him or go in behind him was terrible with the players we had on the bench to do exactly that.

I'm not screaming Southgate must go, but there's so much talent in that squad being stifled or not used. The balance is too defensive, we have so much to make other teams worried but instead we look to stop them rather than let them worry about us.
RE Penalties: Yup, Even Spain's Luis Enrique refused to ask Pedri to take a penalty in both of their shootouts knowing he probably is more than skilled to but the occasion and the burden on an 18 year old isn't even a discussion. You saw how much it affected Vargas for Switzerland taking the fateful kick and that's a 22 year old.

RE Tactics: And yeah that style isn't anti-football necessarily. it's not an exploit, It's something that requires an extreme amount of discipline and skill to execute successfully and consistently.

Not only do you need the right squad and right mentality but it doesn't work forever either. Greece & Chelsea couldn't play like forever and the squad inevitably changes and not everyone new can naturally adapt to it and everyone old eventually fails to keep up.

RE England: I know we used to champion that penalties were the main England problem but I don't think it is, there's something deeper. They aren't world class and never play like they are. Winning 1-0 and having less than 3 chances a game isn't clinical and isn't acceptable. When you think back over the last 21st century at least in tournaments, It's been the same consistent nations all winning convincingly.

We started the millennium with Italy & France as the 2 top teams and now we're back round to them again. Both have won European Cups and World Cups in the last 21 years and have appeared in many finals. Between that, Germany, Portugal, Spain, and loosely The Netherlands have all been very strong and deliberate during their dominant tournaments.

It always seems to feel like when we win and progress during these tournaments, it feels lucky, like an accident. And then when faced with a top tier side like the above, we're always the underdog. Germany being the only team we've beaten from that list in a tournament in those last 21 years but only because they're regressing themselves.

Then there's also the problem with never fully utilising the talent we've had on the bench.

I also recall EURO 2016 bringing Rashford on at 87' and even in those 3 minutes he was the only one to actually do anything resembling troubling a tired Iceland. Don't even get me started on 2006 and wasting a spot on Walcott and not taking Defoe or Bent when they were in form and Owen & Rooney couldn't contribute.
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
You can't compare this with Immobile.
Obviously not,just liking how the hardness of Chiellini drops Harry like a sack of shit.
I'm respecting greatness here.
And the tweet isn't mine.
But he did fall every now and then this tournament,maybe better shoes for Harry going fw?
 
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Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
Giorgio seems like the one you want doing your BBQ and tell stories over a few beers.
Yes,I've had a long lasting dislike for Harry,diving left and right,did a few last night (at least went down very easily),same goes for Raheem,he spent 90 mins looking for a leg to trip over.

Don't think anyone on the isle has realized how much the anthem-booing and the diving (mainly from Sterling, but also from Kane) has swayed sympathies on the continent away from an otherwise quite likeable English team and coach.

I can't recall in my living memory (I am nearing my 50s) that I have witnessed before this tournament an English international dive or an international match at Wembley in which the guest team's anthem was so blatantly out-boo-ed. Not even in the 96 semi.

I can understand that fairplay hasn't won England any titles since 66 and there was a big chance to get rid of a whole range of traumata yesterday, but it's a bit of a consolation that this "new" thing ultimately hasn't been rewarded either.

That said, there is a promising team with many young talents who will grow together and have many, many tournaments in them. Future looks bright for England and after a lost semi and a lost final the title is often the natural progression.
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Don't think anyone on the isle has realized how much the anthem-booing and the diving (mainly from Sterling, but also from Kane) has swayed sympathies on the continent away from an otherwise quite likeable English team and coach.

I can't recall in my living memory (I am nearing my 50s) that I have witnessed before this tournament an English international dive or an international match at Wembley in which the guest team's anthem was so blatantly out-boo-ed. Not even in the 96 semi.

I can understand that fairplay hasn't won England any titles since 66 and there was a big chance to get rid of a whole range of traumata yesterday, but it's a bit of a consolation that this "new" thing ultimately hasn't been rewarded either.

That said, there is a promising team with many young talents who will grow together and have many, many tournaments in them. Future looks bright for England and after a lost semi and a lost final the title is often the natural progression.
Future looks pretty damn good absolutely.
Just hope they will build on it,think the key here is continuity, will Southgate stay on, he should imo, and for the squad's sake too.

And on the diving thing, it's a new era now, people growing up are use to this behaviour, and they tend to keep that when playing senior football too.
I've often criticized CR7 for his antic's on the pitch, but if you look at him and other players of his caliber you often see the dives, but never how much they actually gets kicked around, no wonder they sometimes takes a dive after being kicked 10-15 times in a game.
Best scenario would obviously be a video check after games and punishment handed out for bad behaviour, both cheap shots but also diving.

And your right about the opinion's in your national team being changed on the continent, I've never disliked England's team before, I do now, think it's (to me) a quite unlikeable squad of highly paid robots, with a few exceptions, like the younger players, Rashford being one, but the likes of Kane/Walker can't stand them, maybe it's me not being a big PL fan causing that, who knows?

But there's also a political side to it, Brexit/Boris and fan behaviour that may have had something to do with a lot of people straying away from your national team, that's been the case for me as a neutral Swede and part of the EU for instance.
But silver lining,think your team has a great future.
Good post mate!
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
Don't think anyone on the isle has realized how much the anthem-booing and the diving (mainly from Sterling, but also from Kane) has swayed sympathies on the continent away from an otherwise quite likeable English team and coach.

I can't recall in my living memory (I am nearing my 50s) that I have witnessed before this tournament an English international dive or an international match at Wembley in which the guest team's anthem was so blatantly out-boo-ed. Not even in the 96 semi.

I can understand that fairplay hasn't won England any titles since 66 and there was a big chance to get rid of a whole range of traumata yesterday, but it's a bit of a consolation that this "new" thing ultimately hasn't been rewarded either.

That said, there is a promising team with many young talents who will grow together and have many, many tournaments in them. Future looks bright for England and after a lost semi and a lost final the title is often the natural progression.
Here in Belgium most footbal lfans wanted Italy to win (me included if i'm honest). Not because there was something wrong with the players. We all like the players. The players are great. We love the coach, a humble man who did great things for your national team and who makes the right choices in life (also outside football concerning racism, booing anthems and thing like that).

What most people (me included) don't like is the media. Of course the tabloids are shit, i don't even mind them anymore. But the serious press is also so unrealistic. I will give one example. I listen to Mike Calvin's podcast. The man has written some great books about football. BUt if you listen to him and his guests, in the past England could have won each and every single tournament were it not for some bad luck. Yesterday the podcast was all about the Euro's of course. They were talking about England and also about the players of the tournament. Goalkeeper of the tournament? Perhaps Donnarumma, yes Donnarumma but it could also be... Jordan Pickford. Jordan Pickford? Come on. If there is one mediocre GK it certainly is Pickford. Look at his match against Denmark. If that is the a candidate as GK of the tournament how must keepers like Neuer, Sommer, Courtois, Schmeichel and others feel about themselves?

This is only an example. Of course you have the bad luck that the whole world speaks English and is reading your papers and books, watching the BBC and listening to your podcast. If we are chauvinistic we do in Dutch and only the Dutch people can understand it as outsiders. But sometimes i think your media should be more aware of the fact that the whole world is listening or reading over your shoulders.

And then there are some fans. I hope they are a minority, but they are very vocal on social media. We don't understand the rivalries. As a Spurs fan i should hate Arsenal and Chelsea and to a lesser degree and more recently Leicester, it seems. I should laugh with West Ham United. If i don't, i don't get it. Well i'm a Spurs fan and i don't dislike any of those clubs. We don't understand why Everton fans don't want Benitez as their manager. They should be glad their club have a class coach like him. On twitter i follow lotd of English Spurs fans. The amount of stick sterling got from those Spurs fans is amazing. At a certain point he was the only English player who had scored goals, yet he was hated. Why? Because he refused to pass to Kane according to those Spurs fans. I really don't understand that. I love football, but i don't understand why English fans take it so seriously. It's only a game.

I'm sorry for this post, but i had to write it.
 

KaKa'225

Kaka'255
27 March 2011
Future looks pretty damn good absolutely.
Just hope they will build on it,think the key here is continuity, will Southgate stay on, he should imo, and for the squad's sake too.

And on the diving thing, it's a new era now, people growing up are use to this behaviour, and they tend to keep that when playing senior football too.
I've often criticized CR7 for his antic's on the pitch, but if you look at him and other players of his caliber you often see the dives, but never how much they actually gets kicked around, no wonder they sometimes takes a dive after being kicked 10-15 times in a game.
Best scenario would obviously be a video check after games and punishment handed out for bad behaviour, both cheap shots but also diving.

And your right about the opinion's in your national team being changed on the continent, I've never disliked England's team before, I do now, think it's (to me) a quite unlikeable squad of highly paid robots, with a few exceptions, like the younger players, Rashford being one, but the likes of Kane/Walker can't stand them, maybe it's me not being a big PL fan causing that, who knows?

But there's also a political side to it, Brexit/Boris and fan behaviour that may have had something to do with a lot of people straying away from your national team, that's been the case for me as a neutral Swede and part of the EU for instance.
But silver lining,think your team has a great future.
Good post mate!
I really like the words above but for arguments sake i'll play devil's advocate.

Back in the day players got kicked way harder and got paid way less and showed more character (in my opnion) it made games way more fun.
Now there is unbelievable amouts of money on the line and it's visible.

I'm neither a big fan of the PL with the latest trends.
Like Highbury, Whiteheartlane and more stadiums in the future replaced by new stadiums and the crazy amount of money getting pumped into the top teams it's loosing nostalgia/character.

Southgate made his squad very focused and resilient, I believe he's very social and good with his players.
But I didn't like watching one single match. He made winning the tournament a priority above entertaining the attendence.
And this aproach will result in more pressure.
I think when a team plays good football the fans get behind their team in a positive way.
Also the creative players and the youngsters have way more fun often paying back the trust of a coach on certain moments.
(Spain played very offensive and dominated for 6 years straight.)

And then Southgate's statements involving the war...
I hope he didn't use this to motivate his team.
It comes off as very cheap and in my opinion showed how he's dealing under pressure and stress.

You're squad is gold for the years to come and your coach has shown very good results.
Though It felt like watching our Netherlands team from 2010.
We had this mission to win the Worldcup and played very defensive.
We reached the final and lost. Luckily beacause the way we played - that final - was disgracefull.
Because of the good results we kept playing like this getting punished out of the group-stage in 2012.
Also the French come into mind playing very sober and winning in 2018.
This tournament they could've played 3 different teams without loosing quality on the field.
Still they played very defenisive and got surprised. (loved the Swiss)

I hope for Englands sake this will not happen because the English got some crazy talent.
But I feel this coach will suck the fun out of this team if he doesn't change his aproach.
I hope he does.
He comes of like a smart guy, communicative strong and with a clear gameplan, give the man some drugs please.
 
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Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
And then Southgate's statements involving the war...
I hope he didn't use this to motivate his team.

Well, he said he did. Yeah, that was so unnecessary, especially after I considered him a chap who'd be beyond such kind of statements. They beat us fair and square because they were the better team. Why bring the war in again?

Even the notorious English press doesn't ressort to panzers, bombers and Blitz anymore when it comes to matches against Germany.

Luckily the era of nasty rivalries and comparisons is over. Even playing the Dutch is no longer about something that happened 75 years ago. That's a bit of a positive result of football's internationalization.
 

Emroth

*Help available in future updates
Staff
18 August 2018
Ireland
But there's also a political side to it, Brexit/Boris and fan behaviour that may have had something to do with a lot of people straying away from your national team,
I know we are trying to stay out of politics here, but it definetely has political side to it.

While most people understand, that same as in US, its split more or less half way (Around 50% voted to stay)...
In US, however, people eventually pulled their socks up and decided to get rid of that cancer in charge. For now anyway.

Im not gonna say that Im ready to accept the booing and diving (coz I absolutely despise both), but I could look pass that, knowing that almost half of the country are decent people.
Final nail in the coffin for me was what happened after the match with the three boys who missed their penalties and then response from England (or lack of it).
Basically - there's almost silent "acceptance" of this behaviour. Media, TV programs, politics - only thing they did was throwing a statement like
- ah here! Not cool, lads, racism is not cool. We are not happy with you!
Even Southgate himself tried to water it down by saying "most of it came from abroad" - sorry, mate, but thats absolute bullshit and you know it.

..and that was that. Box ticked, case closed. Nobody talks about it anymore and they are just showing best moments of the tournament.
As long as there's silent acceptance of racism and xenophobia - and the country is not standing up to it - I dont think I will be supporting England to win anything.
Because "few rotten apples", or as they say - "small minority" - is not that at all. Its half of the country. They are louder and they are winning.
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
and that was that. Box ticked, case closed. Nobody talks about it anymore and they are just showing best moments of the tournament.
As long as there's silent acceptance of racism and xenophobia - and the country is not standing up to it - I dont think I will be supporting England to win anything.
Because "few rotten apples", or as they say - "small minority" - is not that at all. Its half of the country. They are louder and they are winning.
English NT takes a knee ,gets booed by their own fans , and criticized by Mr Johnson for showing solidarity
Then the shit storm hits a few weeks later with the penalty shootout ,and the very same Mr Johnson is disgusted how some have threatened/being straight racists tw the players?
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
UK
Tranmere Rovers
English NT takes a knee ,gets booed by their own fans , and criticized by Mr Johnson for showing solidarity
Then the shit storm hits a few weeks later with the penalty shootout ,and the very same Mr Johnson is disgusted how some have threatened/being straight racists tw the players?
Glad that people outside the UK are seeing the hypocrisy, and not just the residents.

What I will say is that, truly, this is what represents the residents of the UK. Yes, there are some horrendous people, and yes, we feel shame when they boo opposition anthems, and abuse people because their football team lost (like a child would). But this is what represents most of us.



 
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rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Glad that people outside the UK are seeing the hypocrisy, and not just the residents.
I think it's quite obvious and very detectable ,mainly because it's in our countries as well.
We have politicians getting caught on a weekly basis here being on different Nazi forums spreading hate under fake names etc.

I'm afraid we will have exactly the same clowns running our country within a year or so too.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
Final nail in the coffin for me was what happened after the match with the three boys who missed their penalties and then response from England (or lack of it).
Basically - there's almost silent "acceptance" of this behaviour. Media, TV programs, politics - only thing they did was throwing a statement like
- ah here! Not cool, lads, racism is not cool. We are not happy with you!
Even Southgate himself tried to water it down by saying "most of it came from abroad" - sorry, mate, but thats absolute bullshit and you know it.

..and that was that. Box ticked, case closed. Nobody talks about it anymore and they are just showing best moments of the tournament.
As long as there's silent acceptance of racism and xenophobia - and the country is not standing up to it - I dont think I will be supporting England to win anything.
Because "few rotten apples", or as they say - "small minority" - is not that at all. Its half of the country. They are louder and they are winning.

This seems to be a policy of UEFA too with the paltry fines for countries who've had problems in matches with racism. Stupid little fines that do nothing, or closing of a stand, the odd behind closed doors game. No, dock them points and if it happens again kick them out of the tournament.

It had seemed to, well not go away because like the scenes in trafalgar square as well, it's never gone away here, but certainly I personally haven't seen any racism at football in 30 years but social media has given them a platform to spout their hate and let's face it stupidity. There's a lot of probably genuine reasons you might hate someone, but skin colour, really? Absolutely pathetic. I like to think it really is a brainless minority, the product of 3 or 4 generations of shit parenting and not a deeper problem. I think most people are genuinely decent people.

As for the booing anthems that has been around a long time, I can't really think when it started but it might even have been the eighties?

The worst part of all this jingoistic 'Ingerlund' section of support is it makes you feel embarrassed to be patriotic which is extremely sad. I actually feel envious of the likes of the Scots, Welsh and the Irish who can really get behind their team and be proud to do so without having to be associated with these types of people.

As an aside to this I am really surprised nobody has capitalised on setting up a new social media platform along the lines of twitter with sign up only with mandatory proof of identity etc. Get footballers/celebrities on board and the public will follow and leave the trolls to fight amongst themselves or risk outing themselves with more hate but in their own name and therefore held accountable.

We don't understand the rivalries. As a Spurs fan i should hate Arsenal and Chelsea and to a lesser degree and more recently Leicester, it seems. I should laugh with West Ham United. If i don't, i don't get it. Well i'm a Spurs fan and i don't dislike any of those clubs. We don't understand why Everton fans don't want Benitez as their manager. They should be glad their club have a class coach like him. On twitter i follow lotd of English Spurs fans. The amount of stick sterling got from those Spurs fans is amazing. At a certain point he was the only English player who had scored goals, yet he was hated. Why? Because he refused to pass to Kane according to those Spurs fans. I really don't understand that. I love football, but i don't understand why English fans take it so seriously. It's only a game.

English football is very tribal. A lot of it is banter, but for some it is pure hatred.



I hope for Englands sake this will not happen because the English got some crazy talent.
But I feel this coach will suck the fun out of this team if he doesn't change his aproach.
I hope he does.

This is my main problem with him. I'm happy for him to stay in charge and certainly it would be pointless changing manager anyway with the world cup so close but I just hope he evolves into a bolder approach and lets the reins off the players.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Idiocy knows neither religion nor skin color!

i will never forget the weeks i've spent in Weymouth, as a 14 year old boy being in a foreign country for the first time, getting to know the language, the culture and the people living there! the family i stayed with was warm hearted and caring, every day! i was amazed by a lot of stuff... and all the english stuff was so hip to me; i was so hyped! :)
arcades, chrisps, fish and chips :LOVE: , breakfast, Terminator running wednesday at 8pm on free to air channels, newspapers, tea with milk, BISCUITS!!!, the beach, my class mates, talking to strangers... the culture and style of life!! very impressive stuff for a young boy, soaking in everything!!
i had only one situation that wasnt nice, but that could've happened everywhere!

so, to make it short: its allways the avarage of people you have to keep in mind! ;) other than that... enjoy life!!

go brits!! :BYE:
 
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Buzzy

Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
14 December 2006
Cyberspace
Liverpool
The thing is folks we have witnessed two vile acts with all this. Racism and bullying.
Like said before, these are cowards/morons who sit behind their keyboard's and spout absolute shite (Gobshite's) about anything offensive. However IRL have "No mark" to make.
Saka, that 19 yr old, showed more Balls than any of these "online warriors".
If i was inclined to do so, i would set up a team, that bully's the bully's online. Give them a taste of there own medicine. I guarantee they wouldn't last long. :MAD: "LEAVE the kid ALONE"
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Yeah I think social media has its role in a lot of hatred ,saw a documentary about this phenomenon.

The level of hate/fake news and just getting your stupid agenda out there wasn't really at the same level as it is now ,Trump took that to a whole new level.
"So you could just lie and tell crazy stories with no one being able to contradict you? If they do you just saying THEY ARE THE LYING ..."

After that it has just exploded with people claiming their truth ,no matter how insane it is anti vaxxers/flat earthers/5g/globalization.
Some people (like how a cult works) will have only see/hear)believe what they only believe in.
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I f**king despair. It now turns out that even a so called politician was at it as well. FFS!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...l-after-penalty-miss/ar-AAM32qC?ocid=msedgntp
Yeah that's what we get here as well.
"We need to look in to this integration thing and Iook very carefully"
Then the media infiltrates a closed Facebook group and they discover the very same person saying "we need to execute them at the border LOL LOL LOL...and are you guys up for our annual shag trip to Thailand boys"
Every fucking week...

And I know it's politics ,and we should stay away from it here ,but trying to understand why people make racism and homophobia in to political issues is beyond me ,it's human rights IMO.
 
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Flipper the Priest

Harder.Better.Faster.Stromer.
15 July 2003
Scotland
Can't get too far into politics as it's a trigger. But I was glad to see Mings go in two-footed on Priti Patel. She called taking the knee "gesture politics" prior to the tournament. Of course it's only a gesture, you fucking cunt [triggered], because it's all the players have. They don't make the decisions, so the best they can do is influence.

Of course, getting a handle on social media is key to decimating the problem. The most widespread manifestation of racism is the wanton use of racist language, and there are plenty of public platforms that offer little resistance. I think the hope of having ID sign up is fanciful. A minefield of data security. What I'm surprised hasn't been started is a social space that offers no interaction at all. No DMs, no tagging, no comments, no sharing. It's a little incongruous but would allow people to express themselves to an audience without any shit coming the other way.

Also, while anonymity would definitely diminish the problem it's not a silver bullet. You may have noticed the Savills employee who was easily cross-checked on LinkedIn and reported. Now suspended pending investigation as he's blamed someone else using his phone. Call me cynical...

In the stadium, I'm surprised that the booing of anthems is such an issue for people. While I'd never do it myself, I don't find it hugely offensive. But the booing of kneeling is mind-blowing. It's been cleverly subverted by conservative quarters as representing an organisation rather than a sentiment, and it put paid somewhat to my belief that the bastards are a small minority. The booing of the knee since stadiums have reopened has been very, very noticeable.

How depressing that - after a great tournament - this is what we're talking about.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
UK
Tranmere Rovers
How depressing that - after a great tournament - this is what we're talking about.

Well, on that note:

Has the official team of the tournament been announced? Seen plenty of a convincing-looking graphic (and debate about it), but nothing on their channels.

UEFA have now announced it.

Here (for verification purposes) is the official, fancy, animated version that takes far too long to get to the point:


...and here's a version for those who can't be arsed watching all the walkouts (like me):

 

Schwarzenbeck

Championship
12 November 2009
Berlin, Germany
FC Bayern
As for the booing anthems that has been around a long time, I can't really think when it started but it might even have been the eighties?

Yeah, I probably romanticised the notion of English sportsmanship a bit too much. There was lots of booing back then:



But the diving is new, isn't it? Can't remember the likes of Shearer, Lineker, Owen, Rooney, Crouch et all ever take a plunge
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
To Chris and other English people here: there is a lot of racism in Belgium too. Lot's of people here really hate Lukaku for instance. The fact that our national team took the knee before matches was heavily criticised by right wing political parties t(and in Flanders 45% of the people vote extreme right or a llitle bit less extreme right).
Dome of these extreme right politician supported our adversaries on Twitter during matches (our first goal against Russia had a suspicion of offside - Lukaku was in an off-side position, but the Russain defender touched the ball and so it can never be off-side - one MP even was bashing the ref that he was biased against Russia).

What i want to say: there are jerks in every country, and the problem is that these people generally are loud and clear and so you get the impression that all -Belgians, English, Germans and take any possible nationality- are jerks. There is a silent majority who is not like that....

Concerning (some) English football fans: what concerns me is the drinking that seems to go hand in hand with being a fan. Too much alcohol changes people and seldom in a good way. I have the impression (perhaps wrongly) that English football fans consume too much alcohol. That is something foreign journalists found shockingly sunday.
 

Emroth

*Help available in future updates
Staff
18 August 2018
Ireland
The worst part of all this jingoistic 'Ingerlund' section of support is it makes you feel embarrassed to be patriotic which is extremely sad.
Such a good post.. It really is sad.
There's a very worrying trend across the world. Ironically - social media and open borders brought us all closer together than we've ever been, while at the same time pulling people apart. Whether you like it, or not, US and UK has a big influence to the rest of the world. And how they respond to racism and xenophobia will have an impact on how others respond.

English football is very tribal. A lot of it is banter, but for some it is pure hatred.
Spot on. Living in Ireland - most people follow and support english teams. And even though "tribal" mentality is strong - most of it in here is pure banter. Probably due to irish mentality - there's very little hatred there. But even with that - people found it very odd that I did not participate in slagging. That, being Liverpool fan, I did not talk shite about Man Utd. Even Utd fans were looking at me suspicious, when I was talking about how Solskjaer struggled and how sad was to see such a big club struggling. One time I even heard
- the fuck is this? Are you a spy?
- :LOL:...yea, im here to gain your trust and then send your gameplan to Klopp!

To make them feel more comfortable - I started slagging other teams....including Liverpool. :LOL:
..and everyone is happy now.. im known as the weird one who is making fun of all the teams, including his own.
But at least I can talk about football now, without them looking at me suspicious.
 

Flipper the Priest

Harder.Better.Faster.Stromer.
15 July 2003
Scotland
Concerning (some) English football fans: what concerns me is the drinking that seems to go hand in hand with being a fan. Too much alcohol changes people and seldom in a good way. I have the impression (perhaps wrongly) that English football fans consume too much alcohol. That is something foreign journalists found shockingly sunday.

From my experience, coke is as big a problem as booze, and increasingly so. Booze makes people do mad things, booze and coke make people do mad things while feeling invincible.

PS I should clarify that I'm not talking about my own actions, but rather seeing it first hand. Unless those two or three lads are all in the toilet cubicle to cross swords and all have colds...
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
About that team of the tournament: good team, but of course the team of the tournament really is: Donnarumma - Di Lorenzo- Chielini-Bonucci- Spinazolla - Verrati-Jorginho- Barella- Insigne-Immobile- Chiesa.
 

rockstrongo

Golden Boot Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Can't get too far into politics as it's a trigger. But I was glad to see Mings go in two-footed on Priti Patel. She called taking the knee "gesture politics" prior to the tournament. Of course it's only a gesture, you fucking cunt [triggered], because it's all the players have. They don't make the decisions, so the best they can do is influence.

Of course, getting a handle on social media is key to decimating the problem. The most widespread manifestation of racism is the wanton use of racist language, and there are plenty of public platforms that offer little resistance. I think the hope of having ID sign up is fanciful. A minefield of data security. What I'm surprised hasn't been started is a social space that offers no interaction at all. No DMs, no tagging, no comments, no sharing. It's a little incongruous but would allow people to express themselves to an audience without any shit coming the other way.

Also, while anonymity would definitely diminish the problem it's not a silver bullet. You may have noticed the Savills employee who was easily cross-checked on LinkedIn and reported. Now suspended pending investigation as he's blamed someone else using his phone. Call me cynical...

In the stadium, I'm surprised that the booing of anthems is such an issue for people. While I'd never do it myself, I don't find it hugely offensive. But the booing of kneeling is mind-blowing. It's been cleverly subverted by conservative quarters as representing an organisation rather than a sentiment, and it put paid somewhat to my belief that the bastards are a small minority. The booing of the knee since stadiums have reopened has been very, very noticeable.

How depressing that - after a great tournament - this is what we're talking about.
 
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