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Real Madrid Thread

YoungGun_UK said:
Rune Messi is a quite a bit better than Ronaldo, I'm not sure Ronaldo warrants comparisons any more either
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Messi is a lot more consistant, yes. I still think Ronaldo has more raw abilities in terms of speed, power, height, etc. And those arent exactly things you can "work on". I honestly think we'd be looking at a different player if he was still with us.
 
But the important factor in this game, at least for me, it's how you combine your physical attributes and you skill. Ronaldo shines when he can run and shoot with power, but he lacks vision, ability to work in close space and passing.

I think we've discussed that before. Ronaldo is a more complete "athlete", but Messi is a much better "footballer". When Ronaldo can't explode it's physic abilities, he falls flat, while Messi can do any unexpected thing in any given moment. I like Ronaldo as a player and rate him quite high, but when I watch Messi play, I really have to ask myself "how the hell did he do that?", while Ronaldo makes me think "oh, he runs fast and shoots with power", but never makes me think he's got the vision of a genius.
 
I dont argue that, I totally agree with you there. That is the difference between Ronaldo and Messi, one's an athlete and the other is a footballer.
But that to me isnt enough to judge the two. Messi and Barca tend to win their games very comfortably and most of that is because they use pure football at the highest level. On the other hand, if a well organised team systematically shut them down (Like say Inter), Messi tends to fail. But this is where you need someone like Ronaldo. The thing I like about Ronaldo is that he uses brute force to get his way. He never tries something new or different. If things dont work, he'll run faster, shoot with more power, fight harder, etc. And the levels he's able to reach is what amazes me with him. Everyone has there own tastes in football, and Ronaldo just happens to be what I like to see. I've seen a lot of great teams over the years but one the best IMO was the Chelsea team under Mourinho cuz although they werent the footballers that Barcelona are, they were a group of very motivated athletes that fought to get the job done. I admire that more than most things. If Ronaldo was in that squad, they probably would have been unstoppable.
 
This could very be that Messi grew playing on a technical side while Ronaldo grew playing non-technical n more direct.

Barca = technical (appealing)
MUTD = Direct (effective)

as individual a player that dribbles , pass n assist will always stand out. Ronaldo has free kicks, speed n trick -passes . Wenger calls Messi a PlayStation player (his movement are animation )
 
The biggest difference IMO is that Messi is a star who is first of all a team player. The teams always comes before Messi.
Ronaldo often thinks he should come before the team. This was very clear in a couple of WC matches were his Portugese team mates were exasperated because Ronaldo always went for goal even if one of his team mates was in a better position.

Other example. The CL final Man Utd - Barcelona.
Until Eto'o's goal IMO Man Utd were the better team, they had acouple of good attacks, but Ronaldo went for personal glory. Once Eto'o scored the first goal, everything was lost for United and their star (Ronaldo) drowned with the team.
In that final Ronaldo wanted to prove that he was the best player in the world. It was quite obvious that to Ronaldo this was not Barcelona -Man Utd but Messi - Ronaldo. Messi was not influenced by the press and played for his team...
 
RuneEdge said:
I dont argue that, I totally agree with you there. That is the difference between Ronaldo and Messi, one's an athlete and the other is a footballer.
But that to me isnt enough to judge the two. Messi and Barca tend to win their games very comfortably and most of that is because they use pure football at the highest level. On the other hand, if a well organised team systematically shut them down (Like say Inter), Messi tends to fail. But this is where you need someone like Ronaldo. The thing I like about Ronaldo is that he uses brute force to get his way. He never tries something new or different. If things dont work, he'll run faster, shoot with more power, fight harder, etc. And the levels he's able to reach is what amazes me with him. Everyone has there own tastes in football, and Ronaldo just happens to be what I like to see. I've seen a lot of great teams over the years but one the best IMO was the Chelsea team under Mourinho cuz although they werent the footballers that Barcelona are, they were a group of very motivated athletes that fought to get the job done. I admire that more than most things. If Ronaldo was in that squad, they probably would have been unstoppable.
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But Rune you've just describeed 2008-2010 Ronaldo, the season before that he was a complete player in the total sense but the seasons before that he had "magic" to his game similar to Messi. He doesn't have any of it now.

Also what makes Ronaldo a better player than Drogba?

When was the last time Ronaldo produced a moment of magic in a big game which didn't involve smacking the ball really hard.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
But Rune you've just describeed 2008-2010 Ronaldo, the season before that he was a complete player in the total sense but the seasons before that he had "magic" to his game similar to Messi. He doesn't have any of it now.

Also what makes Ronaldo a better player than Drogba?

When was the last time Ronaldo produced a moment of magic in a big game which didn't involve smacking the ball really hard.
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That's true, he had more "magic" then, but that was because (like gerd pointed out above) now Ronaldo plays for himself whereas before he played for the team. I'm not denying any of this. You could argue that Ronaldo is his own worst enemy.
Yes Messi is a better team player, and as of right now, he's proving that he'd be a bigger asset to any team than Ronaldo would be. But if Ronaldo sorted himself out in the head, he can be better. Like you said about the 07/08 Ronaldo, he's already proven he can be better. The point I'm trying to get across is that "one on one", Ronaldo is the best player on the planet IMO. You put Ronaldo into Barca and Messi into Madrid and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money than Ronaldo would come out on top.
 
RuneEdge said:
That's true, he had more "magic" then, but that was because (like gerd pointed out above) now Ronaldo plays for himself whereas before he played for the team. I'm not denying any of this. You could argue that Ronaldo is his own worst enemy.
Yes Messi is a better team player, and as of right now, he's proving that he'd be a bigger asset to any team than Ronaldo would be. But if Ronaldo sorted himself out in the head, he can be better. Like you said about the 07/08 Ronaldo, he's already proven he can be better. The point I'm trying to get across is that "one on one", Ronaldo is the best player on the planet IMO. You put Ronaldo into Barca and Messi into Madrid and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money than Ronaldo would come out on top.
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I see you will never accept it, lol. Go to youtube and look for Messi's plays in the last 5 years. Then try to find more than 5 plays in which you could say "this man is a footballing genius".

It doesn't matter, reality will put both at their right place in history when their careers end.
 
That is what I'm talking in the Barcelona thread. That should always be a red card. It's a very dangerous tackle and can cause injuries.

That said, the referee was abysmal. Madrid first goal (penalty) was a gift to Madrid, a total joke. And Then he sent off Forlin for a protest when Sergio Ramos was doing exactly the same at the same time.

Those short-minded talking about "Villarato" can take this into account before opening their mouth.

Referee aside, Madrid is playing quite poorly. I like Ozil and Higuain (the key player of Madrid this season) but as a team, there's nothing there. The team played much better with Pellegrini in my oppinion. They are winning by pure luck by now, and because Casillas is saving the team lots of times. He seems to be again in shape after the last season, that's great news for football.
 
Ronaldo`s ball thru was special something I hope I see more of...btw I like Madrid ,but history says When Valencia wins so does the Arsenal :P
 
beboq said:
Ronaldo`s ball thru was special something I hope I see more of...btw I like Madrid ,but history says When Valencia wins so does the Arsenal :P
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Valencia was robbed from a penalty Mata was brought down by GK :RANT: Valencia looks very good in these early days...prettay good!!!
 
Yeah. But will Valencia break the FCB-RMA cycle of power in the next... 6 years? Magic 8-ball says... i have a sense of humour:))

Although i'd wish for both Valencia and Arsenal to win something again.
 
RuneEdge said:
Messi is a lot more consistant, yes. I still think Ronaldo has more raw abilities in terms of speed, power, height, etc. And those arent exactly things you can "work on". I honestly think we'd be looking at a different player if he was still with us.
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Those are not abilities they are physical attributes.

Seems the British mentality is pervasive again. All about pace and power , forget the element of skill and vision.

Messi is as good one one one. And when Xavi and Iniesta were absent in March this year that did not stop him scoring a hatful of goals.
 
ALBICELESTE2010 said:
Those are not abilities they are physical attributes.

Seems the British mentality is pervasive again. All about pace and power , forget the element of skill and vision.
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Call it whatever you want. My point is still the same. And no, we dont ignore skill and vision otherwise players like Scholes wouldnt be rated so highly here. But pace and power is important because of the nature of our league. I cant say the same for La Liga but in the EPL, pace and power will get you further than skill and vision. That's the type of game I watch week in week out.
Obviously in Spain its a little different so La Liga viewers are most likely to rate skill and vision higher. Its just a matter of taste.
I personally prefer Ronaldo cuz he's got a better balance of all the attributes and IMO can succeed in more different leagues than Messi can. You can debate it all you want but until Messi leaves Barca and La Liga, you probably wont convince me.
 
The problem is, according to you Ronaldo is greater than Maradona, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Pelé... Hey, according to you even Drogba is better than all those...

I watch the Premier and I love it, but seriously, putting speed and strength over skill and vision is not the best way to rate players at all. The combination of all the abilities is what makes them great. Messi uses his speed and ball control to destroy defenders in a way no one else could do, while Lennon can run even faster than Ronaldo...
 
RuneEdge said:
I personally prefer Ronaldo cuz he's got a better balance of all the attributes and IMO can succeed in more different leagues than Messi can.
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I don't know about that. Physique doesn't work great in Italy... hence our lack of physical power in the national team. Many of our stars are Messi-esque (technique and vision over strength and speed) and these kinds of players tend to succeed also when they leave Italy. Players like Pastore, Giovinco and Miccoli are similar to Messi in terms of closed-space movement and speed, and they're the ones that make a difference in Italy. Physical attacking players aren't as successful as in the Prem and need to have strong technique, which seems to be something Ronaldo is showing less of in recent years.
 
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I guess I'm wrong with that statement but I was basing that assumption on the fact that English teams tend to do well in Europe these days.
 
Milanista said:
I don't know about that. Physique doesn't work great in Italy... hence our lack of physical power in the national team. Many of our stars are Messi-esque (technique and vision over strength and speed) and these kinds of players tend to succeed also when they leave Italy. Players like Pastore, Giovinco and Miccoli are similar to Messi in terms of closed-space movement and speed, and they're the ones that make a difference in Italy. Physical attacking players aren't as successful as in the Prem and need to have strong technique, which seems to be something Ronaldo is showing less of in recent years.
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What about Inter? And the relative dissapearance of players like Giovinco and Miccoli? In the top teams anyway.


In short, I dont fully agree.
 
It's a joy to watch this Madrid team. Another great performance tonight with the odds of Özil and Cristiano playing at top level. Ronaldo is getting better and better returning to the good old times at Old Trafford. I can't remember any player scoring 4 goals in just one match recently.

By the way, where are the guys who said Mourinho was a defensive coach? :P
 
:BLINK: Ok ok seems enough obvious!

Honestly didn't know Rooney scored 4 last season. Yeah, I remember that game against Wigan when Defoe score 5. Didn't mention Messi because, you know, our big rival. :TWIST:

Anyway, the important is Cristiano's performance tonight, no matter how goals he scored, CR7 is back!
 
His performance was pretty average considering he scored 4. He's played better in other games where he hasn't scored 4 goals but I suppose you can't really criticise him too much given the circumstances.

And anyone who uses these ridiculous acronyms, like R7, M10 or TB19 should be castrated.
 
To be fair he's definitely improved his ability outside the box in recent weeks, was brilliant against Milan I thought.
 
He ran rings around Nesta and Gattuso in the Milan game and Real could have easily scored 4 goals in the Milan game.

Cristiano has somehow become some kind of leader at Madrid under Mourinho. The playing with wings thing is really working and they missed a player like Carvalho last season.
 
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