PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Mart said:
It wasn't bashed to death here. We've always had (allowed) critical comments and the like and there were always issues that people had with it but "bashed to death" is an exaggeration. Negativity sticks in the mind more than the general acceptance of a good game.

The last few PES games have been off the pace so naturally it's got more negative on here but it just shows that people still care about it. To me the whole point of a fansite or a community like this is to allow both sides to any discussion.
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Well, I was here in those times and yes, it was bashed really hard. Not sure if I am exaggerating with "to death" but it was bashed, LIKE EVERY SINGLE PES/WE TITLE RELEASED BY KONAMI. And you know this Mart, you are an admin.

Of course critical comments are accepted, I was not 100% happy even with PES5 (lets not even mention the poor efforts in next-gen) but dear Mart, all the years the same guys with different nicknames enter the forum on this time of year (a pre-release) to bash the game to death. It is a bit sad.

Jamezinho post is very illustrative to what I also think, and it is funny since he was really negative the past years :D

The only thing that I consider fair is people bashing Adam for selling smoke. I really understand them, specially when you ask for explanation about his lies and he calls you "an idiot" LOL...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
I resent that comment!:)) I hardly post over there any more; I don't like his attitude towards some reasonable questions from decent members.

Nah, it grates on me a bit that some killjoys are writing off PES2010 even before Gamescom, almost as if they don't want to see the game return to old glories. Ok the series has been poor for about three years now but remember Fifa was bad for about 10 years yet they turned things around. I will give Konami the benefit of a doubt that they can do the same. If the game looks shit in Cologne then I'll be the first person to kick up a fuss, but we still have three months until release and until I see this game in motion and the new animations I will remain optimistic. I deserperately want the PES of old to return.
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I fully agree with the fact that fifa has been bad for years, but things have improved at ea.
The one thing i dont understand about Konami...they were doing good 1st, before things got bad.
I like pes3, pes4, pe5 (the best in my opinion) and even pes6. Only when going next gen did things go wrong.
With pes2008 lots of ppl were saying they could understand the game being bad, since it was their 1st attempt at going next gen.
However, how the @#$@#$ can you go next gen by creating flahsy graphics, nice replay and for instance totally killing the running/passing animations?
With all the experience from the past....i simply dont understand.

Still, as always i get excited this time of year when the 1st infos/rumours are hitting the net about the next pes version.
Lets see what happens this year
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
It's almost as if PES-hating has become an Olympic sport on Evoweb. The prevailing attitude of negativity towards the game is getting ridiculous on these forums. The fact that any positivity is routinely shot down in flames on what is after all one of the major PES forums is quite sad. I'm not advocating fanboyism but a bit more positivity would be appreciated.

I think the problem is that a section of people on here seem to hate PES for the sake of it and will see no positives whatsoever. It's like they want PES to fail, while at the same time hailing Fifa09 as footballing perfection and everything PES should strive to be. It's quite clear that PES and Fifa are two very different games that take different approaches to football, which is a good thing in my opinion. I prefer the PES approach and the last thing I want is for it to imitate Fifa in every way. The sooner some of the Fifa crowd realise this the better.

It is after all only a computer game and not worthy of arguments.
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It works the other way though. The amount of people I have heard say over the last few years when plaing fifa "this just doesnt feel like PES" so they dont give it a fair chance. It is like these people would rather fifa play like PES.

Like you said, it is good that EA & Konami go down a different route to each other.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Putuco Malo said:
Jamezinho post is very illustrative to what I also think, and it is funny since he was really negative the past years :D
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I was negative in the past but I think I had good reason (PES2008:SICK:) and I never bashed PES, just tried to constructively criticise. I enjoy both PES and Fifa and want both to be great and also different from each other. I'm really excited for PES this year as it has so much to prove and I miss the good old days so badly.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
I'm really excited for PES this year as it has so much to prove and I miss the good old days so badly.
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Just out of interest, do you think that maybe it's us getting older rather than PES "losing its magic"?

WE6FE is without doubt my favourite PES/WE of all-time, and with the WE-UK patch (which I still have) I spent every day of the week on that game. I had so many of those "magical" moments with WE6FE but when I played it again recently, it felt like all the players were stuck on rails - and more noticeable was the fact that that they had no brakes. When you tried to move in a different direction or pass, the reaction times were shocking. I couldn't believe it.

At the time of course it was the best thing in the world, but playing it again made me appreciate just how far games have come. I have to say the more I play this PES2009 ML game I have going with friends (as much as I hate having to be a Premier League team and not being able to switch jobs etc.), the more I enjoy the game for what it is. But I think getting that feeling we used to get may be beyond us now, because it just doesn't have the same impact on our lives.

I remember ClassicD saying that he "outgrew" Championship Manager/Football Manager, because eventually it just became annoying and too fiddly. At the time I said "it's not us, it's them breaking the game", but now I would agree with him. The latest FM is a decent game, and I used to really love FM, but now I just feel like I'm watching a bunch of pixels moving around and I have no real say in what's going on, I don't "feel" the game. I've turned into my dad. :ANX:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
Just out of interest, do you think that maybe it's us getting older rather than PES "losing its magic"?

WE6FE is without doubt my favourite PES/WE of all-time, and with the WE-UK patch (which I still have) I spent every day of the week on that game. I had so many of those "magical" moments with WE6FE but when I played it again recently, it felt like all the players were stuck on rails - and more noticeable was the fact that that they had no brakes. When you tried to move in a different direction or pass, the reaction times were shocking. I couldn't believe it.

At the time of course it was the best thing in the world, but playing it again made me appreciate just how far games have come. I have to say the more I play this PES2009 ML game I have going with friends (as much as I hate having to be a Premier League team and not being able to switch jobs etc.), the more I enjoy the game for what it is. But I think getting that feeling we used to get may be beyond us now, because it just doesn't have the same impact on our lives.

I remember ClassicD saying that he "outgrew" Championship Manager/Football Manager, because eventually it just became annoying and too fiddly. At the time I said "it's not us, it's them breaking the game", but now I would agree with him. The latest FM is a decent game, and I used to really love FM, but now I just feel like I'm watching a bunch of pixels moving around and I have no real say in what's going on, I don't "feel" the game. I've turned into my dad. :ANX:
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I agree with your point of view. I guess all the things in life are influenced for the moment you live them. Probably some guys are in the same phase with PES2009 or FIFA09 as we were with PES4/PES5.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
Just out of interest, do you think that maybe it's us getting older rather than PES "losing its magic"?

......................
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It could be. I have good memories of playing PES - and ISS before that - with my mates when I was much younger and had less shit to worry about. You can't beat a bunch of mates and an evening of PES:WASTED: but those days are long gone. Having said that, my favourite was PES5 and it was only 3 years ago that it was the most current version. Plus, getting older certainly doesn't excuse the disgrace that was PES2008.:NO:

I feel similar to ClassicD. I lost interest in manager games years ago. I used to be addicted to Premier Manager and the early Championship managers on the Amiga, and also LMA on the PS1 to a lesser extent. The last time I played a manager game was probably about 8 or 9 years ago - coincidentally about the same time I started to seriously get into ISS/PES. Since then all I've wanted to do is play 'on the pitch' football games rather than stare at spreadsheets. Having said that I would still love PES and Fifa to have slightly deeper manager modes. Best of both worlds then.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
Just out of interest, do you think that maybe it's us getting older rather than PES "losing its magic"?

WE6FE is without doubt my favourite PES/WE of all-time, and with the WE-UK patch (which I still have) I spent every day of the week on that game. I had so many of those "magical" moments with WE6FE but when I played it again recently, it felt like all the players were stuck on rails - and more noticeable was the fact that that they had no brakes. When you tried to move in a different direction or pass, the reaction times were shocking. I couldn't believe it.

At the time of course it was the best thing in the world, but playing it again made me appreciate just how far games have come. I have to say the more I play this PES2009 ML game I have going with friends (as much as I hate having to be a Premier League team and not being able to switch jobs etc.), the more I enjoy the game for what it is. But I think getting that feeling we used to get may be beyond us now, because it just doesn't have the same impact on our lives.

I remember ClassicD saying that he "outgrew" Championship Manager/Football Manager, because eventually it just became annoying and too fiddly. At the time I said "it's not us, it's them breaking the game", but now I would agree with him. The latest FM is a decent game, and I used to really love FM, but now I just feel like I'm watching a bunch of pixels moving around and I have no real say in what's going on, I don't "feel" the game. I've turned into my dad. :ANX:
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You hit the nail in the god-damned head. And thank God you did, or I'd have to post the exact same thing, for I think the same way.

Time to enjoy or more on.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

anyone who says this entire site bashed PES5 back in the day is full of it.. didnt happen. Since pro evo has sucked, its been happening... Im looking forward to this iteration.. We pulled out WE7i reloaded the other day and had a blast.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Leo said:
The real problem I think is that you don't know how a game is made in any greater detail, neither do I, but KONAMI has already tried twice to do a true next-gen game and failed, so why should they deliver this year (except graphics)? I mean, it's all a problem of the gameplay engine really, simply look how they can improve the graphics but only change very, very little in the core gameplay other like 5-6 years, and this on much, much stronger platforms. They truly need a new gameplay engine if they want to compete at any level except the one they are at now, which is getting smaller and smaller.

And yes, they can't just make a great game this year "because they have to", it's also a question of the actual gameplay engine which obviously has reached it's limit years ago, I can only imagine what mess it must be.

Animations in my opinion should be one of the absolute foundations of which the game should be based on, foot plantation, how the body is balanced, where the players weight is (how fast can he turn, pass, dribble, etc.), and so on. This can't be the case in PES and it really should if you want to do a good simulation in this generation. Sure, PES way was great in the last-gen, but that was then. The technology moves forward but PES doesn't, look at all the other japanese based companies, almost everyone has failed to impress lately.
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Is FIFA truly superior in gameplay ? In a game sense - yes you have a greater ability to interact in the game world (move pass etc); In a football sense (representation of the real sport) - no, it appeals to some and it doesnt recreate many of the aspects that football fans love about the sport.

You say PES needs a new gameplay engine and many would agree however I believe Konami (read Seabass) is fearful of starting afresh - the fear of not being able to start from ground zero and create a system with more interaction while keeping the "spirit" of the sport. The notion of them working on a new gameplay engine also I think is believable but to the level that some may think (Konami is readying it for PES 20XX grand entrance) seems a bit far fetched.

When you say animation is the basis - it is actually the physics and logic that run the game (the animation is just the nice looking graphical representation to make the user aware of what is occurring) - Konami probably feels they will fix the animation and see how the masses like that without tampering too much with the rest of the game. If that doesnt do it then look for more drastic gameplay changes in future iterations.

I think EA made the decision to go all out a few years ago because they had the means, the other big sports games in the NA market made the jump and also because they have sister entities (Madden NHL etc) that can assist if necessary.

From all I've seen so far I remain optimistic but it will come down to mo-cap and animation to pull it off presentation wise. If the cards and sliders do influence the gameplay positively I'll be happy. PES2009 is a good game and I understand why many passed on it because of 2008 etc.

We all long for the freedom of FIFA but with the charm of PES - dont know when that day will arrive.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just out of interest, do you think that maybe it's us getting older rather than PES "losing its magic"?

WE6FE is without doubt my favourite PES/WE of all-time, and with the WE-UK patch (which I still have) I spent every day of the week on that game. I had so many of those "magical" moments with WE6FE but when I played it again recently, it felt like all the players were stuck on rails - and more noticeable was the fact that that they had no brakes. When you tried to move in a different direction or pass, the reaction times were shocking. I couldn't believe it.

At the time of course it was the best thing in the world, but playing it again made me appreciate just how far games have come. I have to say the more I play this PES2009 ML game I have going with friends (as much as I hate having to be a Premier League team and not being able to switch jobs etc.), the more I enjoy the game for what it is. But I think getting that feeling we used to get may be beyond us now, because it just doesn't have the same impact on our lives.

I remember ClassicD saying that he "outgrew" Championship Manager/Football Manager, because eventually it just became annoying and too fiddly. At the time I said "it's not us, it's them breaking the game", but now I would agree with him. The latest FM is a decent game, and I used to really love FM, but now I just feel like I'm watching a bunch of pixels moving around and I have no real say in what's going on, I don't "feel" the game. I've turned into my dad.
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I think thats the point!

Without ignoring the things gone bad the last 2 years with PES Series its also the fact, that old things often aren't as good as we remember them. I loved to play all winning 11 titles with italian WeDoIt or Wendetta patches, waited for new releases like a little child, and spend hours and hours of playing with my friends. Playing the titles today is like viewing cartoons i liked when i was a kid. Can't understand what made me go mad after them when i was younger, today they seem ridicoulos.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

master_smurf said:
Is FIFA truly superior in gameplay ? In a game sense - yes you have a greater ability to interact in the game world (move pass etc); In a football sense (representation of the real sport) - no, it appeals to some and it doesnt recreate many of the aspects that football fans love about the sport.

You say PES needs a new gameplay engine and many would agree however I believe Konami (read Seabass) is fearful of starting afresh - the fear of not being able to start from ground zero and create a system with more interaction while keeping the "spirit" of the sport. The notion of them working on a new gameplay engine also I think is believable but to the level that some may think (Konami is readying it for PES 20XX grand entrance) seems a bit far fetched.

When you say animation is the basis - it is actually the physics and logic that run the game (the animation is just the nice looking graphical representation to make the user aware of what is occurring) - Konami probably feels they will fix the animation and see how the masses like that without tampering too much with the rest of the game. If that doesnt do it then look for more drastic gameplay changes in future iterations.

I think EA made the decision to go all out a few years ago because they had the means, the other big sports games in the NA market made the jump and also because they have sister entities (Madden NHL etc) that can assist if necessary.

From all I've seen so far I remain optimistic but it will come down to mo-cap and animation to pull it off presentation wise. If the cards and sliders do influence the gameplay positively I'll be happy. PES2009 is a good game and I understand why many passed on it because of 2008 etc.

We all long for the freedom of FIFA but with the charm of PES - dont know when that day will arrive.
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Wow, an interesting answer in the PES thread, lovely.:APPLAUD:

I do agree in some ways, but in others not so much. For example, you say "In a football sense (representation of the real sport) - no, it appeals to some and it doesnt recreate many of the aspects that football fans love about the sport." I say that is entirely the case due to FIFA's assisted controls and for everyone with a real interest in football and games (i.e. visitors to this site) should move to manual controls, because that's where you'll find the unpredictability that PES had in it's glorydays. Sure, the goalkeepers are a little too good because they'll have to be able to save the perfect assisted shots, but in every aspect of the game it becomes more football-like on manual controls. Many will not agree, but you can't really judge it's truly if you haven't played lots and lots of hours on manual (I switched to FIFA 09 from PES, first sucked on asssisted for at least 20 hours before I even thought of manual controls and then sucked on those for another 20 at least;)).

You are however completely right about that KONAMI can't (well, won't) do the same thing as FIFA, partly because they have an alright arcade game, and strongly because they have a community that knows pretty much what they'll get (the same as the last 5-6 years), and be quiet happy with it. If they release a poor game that has true potential in 1-2 years, they won't sell shit because they don't have the mainstream appeal as FIFA and leaving the old engine would probably be enough to cut the cords to those who desperately wants it to go back to the ways things used to be (Chris explained it great why). Add to that that they can't afford to assign a smaller team to a new engine for longtime success as they have their hands full at the moment.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It's not just getting older imo, there is something wrong with the nextgen PES games.
Playing NHL09 recently it reminded me of the older PES games in that it's accessible yet has depth and has the one-more-go factor that PES used to have in abundance.
Going back to older ISS/PES games they obviously don't seem as good as you remember but I'd much rather have a match on ISS Pro Evolution on PS1 than PES2009.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I know what you are saying Chris. In fact, your description fits me perfectly. I spent my entire college years playing Champ Man, but I haven't played FM apart from a few brief flirtations with each new release in the hope it somehow recaptures the feeling of old, since around FM2005.

The same can be said with PES to an extent, you do lose some of your imagination, your ability to overlook anomalies and inconsistencies, you might say you become more neurotic (the inability to tolerate ambiguity). Because of this you have inevitably higher standards and only a game which strives to be a real simulation can satisfy those more demanding tastes.

Having said that, I agree with the previous poster. There is something wrong with next-gen PES because I have been playing PES6 on the PC recently with a 2009 update and it's still a very playable game, despite it's limitations - and that's something I certainly can't say for PES next-gen.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Putuco Malo said:
Well, I was here in those times and yes, it was bashed really hard. Not sure if I am exaggerating with "to death" but it was bashed, LIKE EVERY SINGLE PES/WE TITLE RELEASED BY KONAMI. And you know this Mart, you are an admin.

Of course critical comments are accepted, I was not 100% happy even with PES5 (lets not even mention the poor efforts in next-gen) but dear Mart, all the years the same guys with different nicknames enter the forum on this time of year (a pre-release) to bash the game to death. It is a bit sad.

Jamezinho post is very illustrative to what I also think, and it is funny since he was really negative the past years :D

The only thing that I consider fair is people bashing Adam for selling smoke. I really understand them, specially when you ask for explanation about his lies and he calls you "an idiot" LOL...
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I actually read that comment on WENB and couldn't believe it. Was it you who asked the question? I though it was a valid question and he should have answered it. Of course being the arrogant prick that he is, he avoided it and actually insulted the guy.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It's a sad state of affairs when you are banning people from a forum in case anyone from Konami reads it and revokes your "privileged" status.

The most annoying thing that he used to say was "what you fail to realise, is that many people see nothing wrong with PES2008/9".

I always wanted to reply "well many people see nothing wrong with the holocaust, it doesn't make it any less of an atrocity".
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

gomito#10 said:
anyone who says this entire site bashed PES5 back in the day is full of it.. didnt happen. Since pro evo has sucked, its been happening... Im looking forward to this iteration.. We pulled out WE7i reloaded the other day and had a blast.
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Hmmmm..... nope. You are wrong.

I did not say all the site bashed the game. I said "some people still bashed the game to death, even in the glory days like PES5".

Some people cannot be happy even with God making a game. That is life!

final lap said:
I actually read that comment on WENB and couldn't believe it. Was it you who asked the question? I though it was a valid question and he should have answered it. Of course being the arrogant prick that he is, he avoided it and actually insulted the guy.
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Nope, it was not me.... but it was a member of this forum who mentioned the incident a couple of pages behind in this thread. Adam seemed to be a nice guy, but I guess the fame (?) got him. What a loser.

vitalic said:
It's a sad state of affairs when you are banning people from a forum in case anyone from Konami reads it and revokes your "privileged" status.

The most annoying thing that he used to say was "what you fail to realise, is that many people see nothing wrong with PES2008/9".

I always wanted to reply "well many people see nothing wrong with the holocaust, it doesn't make it any less of an atrocity".
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100% agree... a bit exaggerate the analogy, but it makes sense LOL..
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Being a PES fan who stopped playing football games 2 years ago (they just got too repetetive for me, and the ML stagnated beyond belief), I decided to take the plunge again this year with FIFA09 over PES09 because it was just better overall. At the end of the day, however, both franchises take you in different directions to try and give you that immersive, real-football experience.

PES gives you a more team-oriented sim where the attributes of individual players stick out and make a difference. To keep you from winning every game 6-0 they have to randomly make your players screw up here and there (something I know Chris has lamented at length). The upside is a greater variety of goals and managerial decisions that instantly look like they are making a difference.

FIFA gives you the individual control, manual passing and shooting. But they need to slow down reaction times and make your defensive AI much dumber than the CPU -you can rarely dribble past a defender w/o the tricks and the variety of goals just isn't there because CPU defenses are too rigid and can only be broken down in certain ways. Again, this is done so that you don't win every single-player match 6-0.

The answer is both these cases is technology and the AI ability to give us humans a good match and keep our interest. Until this part of the equation makes a massive leap then we will all be complaining about how the CPU basically cheats! Some will prefer FIFA's aproach past this problem, some will prefer the PES way. Both are ultimately flawed if we are being totally honest here.

The biggest disappointment for me has been on-line (on FIFA because PES was basically unplayable online). This is where you should be able to see how true a football sim the game can be playing agaist other people. Unfortunately, there are just too many exploits (Ronaldo speed) and the fatigue should be addressed so you can't just press all day w/o a total breakdown of your team. If EA could address these issues and give us good online leagues (or as Chris hopes, an online MM), then you'd have a gem.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

vitalic said:
It's a sad state of affairs when you are banning people from a forum in case anyone from Konami reads it and revokes your "privileged" status.

The most annoying thing that he used to say was "what you fail to realise, is that many people see nothing wrong with PES2008/9".

I always wanted to reply "well many people see nothing wrong with the holocaust, it doesn't make it any less of an atrocity".
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I don't think you should use an event/tragedy in history(massacre of human beings) to justify the point your making concerning people's views on two football games that were well below standards.

In any case, like mentioned previously, its getting a bit too personal over a footie game.

Hopefully this thread can go back on track, talking about the game with the information/rumours bits we're given, what we hope to see and not see in the game, rather than already concluding the fact that it'll be a certain disappointment.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

played pro evo 5 at friends today since 2005/2006 and i can really say PES has changed...gonna rent PES2010 first to see if its like PES5 and if its not then i aint gonna buy it and probably invest in buying a copy of the PS2 PES5 cause it is crazy...PES5 is the real gaming football game!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

killa_byte said:
played pro evo 5 at friends today since 2005/2006 and i can really say PES has changed...gonna rent PES2010 first to see if its like PES5 and if its not then i aint gonna buy it and probably invest in buying a copy of the PS2 PES5 cause it is crazy...PES5 is the real gaming football game!
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I still play it, 3.5 (?) years later. It was the best PES has ever been (I was really dissapointed in PES6 because it ruined alot of the things that were realistically balanced in PES5). Though if I go straight from FIFA09 to PES5 I get frustrated there's no manual passing.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I don't think you should use an event/tragedy in history(massacre of human beings) to justify the point your making concerning people's views on two football games that were well below standards.
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I wasn't using the event in it's self, but the fact people somehow actually deny the event ever occurred, as a means to illustrate the fact that the misguided ignorance of a few doesn't change the truth of the matter.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

vitalic said:
I wasn't using the event in it's self, but the fact people somehow actually deny the event ever occurred, as a means to illustrate the fact that the misguided ignorance of a few doesn't change the truth of the matter.
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Yes, your opinion is the truth.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Intrepid said:
2008 was an atrocity, but PES2009 was OK imo.
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Agreed, it's a better game than I first realised. I was guilty of overlooking the game when it was released due to the abomination that was 2008, but PES2009 is still a solid title. With more fluid passing, better animations and AI the game could have been so much better, hence why I'm optimistic for 2010.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
Agreed, it's a better game than I first realised. I was guilty of overlooking the game when it was released due to the abomination that was 2008, but PES2009 is still a solid title. With more fluid passing, better animations and AI the game could have been so much better, hence why I'm optimistic for 2010.
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Careful. More positive talk about PES and the bashers will be back in to fan us down;)
 
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