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PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Im actually quite looking forward to this know, I think its great if we have two good football games which are quite different.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Am I really the only one that finds mo-capping the ball and nets one of the most absurds things ever? Really, who made the list didn't know a shit about what's the use for mo-capping, right?

Why on earth would you like tomo-cap the ball? Ball must rely solely in physics. If anything else, then it's scripted bullshit. And nets?

Really, tell me I'm not the only one laughing here.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Really, tell me I'm not the only one laughing here.
Click to expand...

Your the only one laughing here.


In all seriousness though, whatever makes for a more realistic experience, physically or cosmetically I'm all for. Not really sure what they mean about the ball though, so I'm with you there.

Konami have ALWAYS stressed that they focus on the ball and it's physics as its own seperate entity. And it really shows. Apart from one of the WE games, ( not sure which one now ) the weight of the ball has always been as close to perfect as you could ask for, in my opinion. I have absolutely no issues with PES's ball physics. If they can somehow improve it by Mo-Cap, great. Do I think it needs addressing ? Not at all.

I would love to see EA concentrate on the ball physics alot more though, as for me it is one of the few area's they dont get quite right. The chipped pass always feels weightless and has no zip to it. Basically it floats, you cant ping a fast hard ball in the air. Something they need to address in Fifa 10.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Just to reply to drekkard, since I also saw his post in another forum ;)

To what extent are they using the ball mo-cap is unknown, but in the video they did show the ball and the player wireframes in the mocap screen, if you recall correctly, so it can be a rumor based on the video released earlier this week.

Sure enough, the ball in the game will rely on good physics, but if you're mocapping the player, you need to mocap the ball to determine to some extent how hard is the player kicking the ball wih a particular gesture, how does the player move when the ball curves to one side, to the other, when the player crosses, how strong will he cross, etc.

Remember also that the mo-cap will need to be reviewed later on by programmers who weren't present there in the mo-cap session, so mo-capping the ball for them at least to have some reference as to "where's the ball in each movement relative to the player" makes sense. It doesn't make much sense, as you mention, if you think of it as mocapping the ball movement or rotation ;)

...But then again it might help them model better physics if they gather how does the ball float when crossed and when it's shot, so that it doesn't seem too floaty or too heavy, just right :)

...Sounds reasonable mate? Let me know whatyour thoughts are.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

to mo-cap the nets would be amazing, certain way the net ripples when the ball hits it.....if they can get that in-game then it can only be good

drekkard not sure why you think this is funny mate??
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

danhammer said:
to mo-cap the nets would be amazing, certain way the net ripples when the ball hits it.....if they can get that in-game then it can only be good

drekkard not sure why you think this is funny mate??
Click to expand...

Mo-capping nets? Sounds a bit strange to me.

I don't honestly see how you could mo-cap a net seeing as there is an unlimited number of places the ball could hit it and cause movement. Mo-cap is used for set-routines.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

yer but if they get most of the net it will be more realistic
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

p3s 2008 said:
yer but if they get most of the net it will be more realistic
Click to expand...

But there are an infinate amount of impact points for the ball to hit so it would never work to look well. They may as well just hand do the animation. It would work a lot better. :))
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Well, that's why I was laughing, because mocapping something that you need to achieve by programming is quite absurd. You never mocap a "net" object, you define forces and the "wire" that deforms and then spend some time refining the limits of forces and grid of the deformation transform layer.

Mocapping a net just doesn't make any kind of sense. It's as if you were mocapping fireworks. It's absurd, it's a particle system and you will program it to have multiple variations later on. If you want the net to react better you have to program better. Mocapping doesn't add any info you actually need. The net will be deformable by ANY kind of shot. The technique to achieve great nets is to program well. Period.

About the ball, it's just the same. If your engine is good enough, it will move the ball realistically. The kicking animations, though based in mocap sessions, will have to be somewhat "loose" in order to achieve good results, particularly with inverted kinetics. Then, your player skeleton is "molded" to the mocap information more or less and have some "elasticity" in some movements so the player can stretch more or less to properly impact the ball. But all this applies to the player, and nowadays in current generations is the player the one who adjusts to the ball trajectory, not the other way round (and is how it works in reality too).

Concluding, if the ball is "free"... it doesn't make any sense to mocap the ball trajectory. You don't need it at all, unless they are doing bad tricks and make the ball part of the animation. Then the ball is not "free" and I get suspicious.

To those saying "it will add realism", please explain me in technical terms how you will add realism by mocapping a ball.

Sorry for the confusing terms here and there, I don't know much of the technical words in english as I do in my language, Catalan.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Haha motion capture can record anything that moves by the laws of physics, makes sense to use the ball and net, as they WILL indeed recieve good data from it, as they will be able record the way they move and USE that to program a more realistic moving net and ball.

After all with motion capture it can record complex movement and REALISTIC PHYSICAL INTERACTIONS like secondary motions, weights as well as exchange of forces, so then with that they can easily recreate that physically accurate in game, don't see why this would definately not help the physics for the ball or net... not like they are just going to replicate movement like most probably mo cap is JUST used for...

Altho must add I dont know thaaaaat much about the technique, but I believe this is correct :D
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

With all my respects, I think you don't exactly know what you're talking about.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Well, that's why I was laughing, because mocapping something that you need to achieve by programming is quite absurd. You never mocap a "net" object, you define forces and the "wire" that deforms and then spend some time refining the limits of forces and grid of the deformation transform layer.

Mocapping a net just doesn't make any kind of sense. It's as if you were mocapping fireworks. It's absurd, it's a particle system and you will program it to have multiple variations later on. If you want the net to react better you have to program better. Mocapping doesn't add any info you actually need. The net will be deformable by ANY kind of shot. The technique to achieve great nets is to program well. Period.

About the ball, it's just the same. If your engine is good enough, it will move the ball realistically. The kicking animations, though based in mocap sessions, will have to be somewhat "loose" in order to achieve good results, particularly with inverted kinetics. Then, your player skeleton is "molded" to the mocap information more or less and have some "elasticity" in some movements so the player can stretch more or less to properly impact the ball. But all this applies to the player, and nowadays in current generations is the player the one who adjusts to the ball trajectory, not the other way round (and is how it works in reality too).

Concluding, if the ball is "free"... it doesn't make any sense to mocap the ball trajectory. You don't need it at all, unless they are doing bad tricks and make the ball part of the animation. Then the ball is not "free" and I get suspicious.

To those saying "it will add realism", please explain me in technical terms how you will add realism by mocapping a ball.

Sorry for the confusing terms here and there, I don't know much of the technical words in english as I do in my language, Catalan.
Click to expand...

Brilliant post D:WORSHIP: I understand exactly what you mean and its put across extremely well;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

First PES 2010 News from PSM3 Leaked!

torres1569.jpg

* Champions League will be playable online
* New tatics system called tatics slider focusing on player support | support range | compactnes | defensive line | pressing attacking style | defensive strategy. The slider works on a 0-100 scale.
* New card system replacing the old player ability stars
* Team mates will flood the box if Beckham for eg is about to cross the ball as opposed to a player with less skills in crossing.
* Defenders can be zoned individually or instructed to push on
* BAL created players can be added to master league
* Player comparisons (between 2009 and 2010) are very impressive players shown Torres | Gerrard | Alonso | Messi | Eto'o | Xavi | Iniesta
* There shall be no Konami ID used for 2010
* The online system used in Pro Evo 6 will be used and enhanced they have finally dropped 2008 | 2009's online system
* No visible loading times
* Loop headers are in
* Ability to auto-select team members by condition | ability and balance
* More balanced refs which also use the advantage rule
* AI no longer makes automatic tackling | shooting decisions

Source: http://pes2008editing.blogspot.com/2009/07/first-pes-2010-news-from-psm3-leaked.html
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

That list is pretty disappointing compared to the faked one. Hardly any really new information though, glad to see they removed the automatic AI decisions.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

If thats the list from a 10 page article than I am very disappointed.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I cannot belive that is the list of a 10 page exclusive, it states nothin...................."loop headers are in" so fucking what!! "players will flood the box" wow weeeeeeee!!

Its got to be fake because that is apalling.

Nice pic of Torres though:COOL:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Boys, someone already got their PSM

Some infos

More focused commentary
More Balanced refs and 'advantage' rule
Lots of extra player specific goal celebration
Revised penalty system which offers more control
Much better goalkeepers
No more Konami ID. its now hosted on Sony's servers (on the PS3 version of course)

Heres things they have removed

Al no longer makes automatic tackling/shooting decisions
Players no longer freeze after freekicks
No 'simple' settings menu in tactics. Your key changes are made with sliders

Others

Man Utd and Liverpool are the licensed teams from the Premiership again this year. Anfield is also in the game!

Full Spanish, French, Italian and........ GERMAN leagues!

The full team rosters are to be confirmed (ie the other leagues section: Rangers, Celtic, Spartak Moscow etc...)

Another snippet people might like to know is that when EA's contract expires with the Premierleague, they might decide to share the licence with Konami. This is by no way confirmed, just a possibility.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

goalgerd said:
Boys, someone already got their PSM

Some infos

More focused commentary
More Balanced refs and 'advantage' rule
Lots of extra player specific goal celebration
Revised penalty system which offers more control
Much better goalkeepers
No more Konami ID. its now hosted on Sony's servers (on the PS3 version of course)

Heres things they have removed

Al no longer makes automatic tackling/shooting decisions
Players no longer freeze after freekicks
No 'simple' settings menu in tactics. Your key changes are made with sliders

Others

Man Utd and Liverpool are the licensed teams from the Premiership again this year. Anfield is also in the game!

Full Spanish, French, Italian and........ GERMAN leagues!

The full team rosters are to be confirmed (ie the other leagues section: Rangers, Celtic, Spartak Moscow etc...)

Another snippet people might like to know is that when EA's contract expires with the Premierleague, they might decide to share the licence with Konami. This is by no way confirmed, just a possibility.
Click to expand...

Thanks but it is another list of nothing "better keepers" well they could not get much worse so whats different???
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

good news to hear the german league is back under license,and exiting news konami might finally get the premier league.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

maybe the other stuff on the supposed leaked list will come out in the coming weeks


There's an interview with one of Konami's guys and they're asked about the licences and he said that "ALL UEL (Europa League) Qualified teams"...... So more than just Man Utd and Liverpool from the Prem then???
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

goalgerd said:
Boys, someone already got their PSM

Some infos

More focused commentary
More Balanced refs and 'advantage' rule
Lots of extra player specific goal celebration
Revised penalty system which offers more control
Much better goalkeepers
No more Konami ID. its now hosted on Sony's servers (on the PS3 version of course)

Heres things they have removed

Al no longer makes automatic tackling/shooting decisions
Players no longer freeze after freekicks
No 'simple' settings menu in tactics. Your key changes are made with sliders

Others

Man Utd and Liverpool are the licensed teams from the Premiership again this year. Anfield is also in the game!

Full Spanish, French, Italian and........ GERMAN leagues!

The full team rosters are to be confirmed (ie the other leagues section: Rangers, Celtic, Spartak Moscow etc...)

Another snippet people might like to know is that when EA's contract expires with the Premierleague, they might decide to share the licence with Konami. This is by no way confirmed, just a possibility.
Click to expand...
Another fake information or true?Exactly about German league I mean.....Do you have confirmed source?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

p3s 2008 said:
good news to hear the german league is back under license,and exiting news konami might finally get the premier league.
Click to expand...
It's not under licence;)

It's like in PES5 and like the Premier League atm. Fake teams, real players.

They can try to gather single team licences like for La Liga in PES 2009 though:D
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

If thats really all the Info from the exclusive Playtest - thats disappointing. I mean no word about gameplay? But german league is the best news i heard in a while.
 
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