PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

master_smurf said:
I wouldnt even think about shooting from there - but after that one plus the one he scored against Milan irl - bang em Drogs LOL
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It was just one of those unpredictable moments of magic PES is famous for.

To be fair, everything was right. Keeper off his line and not correctly placed due to him taking the goal kick. The surprise of the early strike. Drogba's body positioning was spot on. His body is flush to the goal, he is facing perfectly straight which means unless he uses the outside of the boot, this is the only shot he has on. He gets the ball out of his feet with the chest, and in perfect stride meet the ball beautifully on the drop, naturally making the ball rise, but its where he hits it that makes the line stay true. If he had let the ball drop any further then the shot would have stayed low and hard, and the chances are, he would have been a little out of his stride.

If you look closely, he strikes through the ball but with his laces connecting dead centre and right on the sweet spot. It's technically very difficult to do in real life, but when you catch it like that, the ball stays straight and doesnt really bend due to the technique of the placement of the boot, and the position the ball was struck with follow through.

Beckham uses the exact same technique when he pings the long pass, only he strikes the ball at bottom centre, thats how they stay so straight. If your slightly out with your position of connection with the ball, it will slice either left or right depending on which side of centre you connect with the ball. You can look like Becks when you pull it off, or like a tit if you dont, as I know only too well. :LOL:
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
The Drogba volley is great. About the other video, no way in hell it is a "trick". It's a normal feint suddenly turning into a odd animation due to a collission. Don't try to see anything else there.
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Well you know about technical side of the programming Drekkard so I'll take your word on it. You know better than me. Still, it has got to be the best and luckiest looking PES glitch on Youtube. :LOL:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

not trying to bait here, but I just love it when players pull random (and rare) feints like that one, on fifa09.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Sorry Jimmy, but even if you write the bible again from scratch there's no way to justify that heavy balls rolling on a marble floor resemble at all a footy ball in a pitch.
- YouTube - PES 2010 gamescom gameplay 3 PC here e.g. @0:20 the ball bounces a bit. i played at the gamescom and longer low-passes bounce a lot more in pes 2010. maybe not as in real live but still better as in pes09.

PES has quite good physics for shooting and crossing due to the scripted nature of those actions. Of course they are also well coded to make great parabolic movements.

But out of that, PES physics for passing are very poor, not to mention collisions. You can see many instances in the pes2010 videos where the ball doesn't fit at all the animations
-i think there ist e.g. fifa's problem. in pes maybe the player-animations are programmed to fit to the ball (players feet sliding over the ground to better go into position towards the ball.
in fifa it seems vis/versa. the ball stops a moment so the players animation matches perfectly to the ball but decreases the overall "fluid feeling" pes has.

and seem to react on his own following a predetermined path (messi crossing with the nail and the ball going in bullet time and spinning straight to Henry's head) or takes that odd rebound you wouldn't see in reality,
maybe i am wrong but most things in pes feel like you can do it in reality.

and almost all the passes perfectly roll through the floor, without any bouncing at the start of the passing even for large low passes.
-here in 0:35 it bounces a bit (pes 2009) YouTube - PES 09 Top Player HQ 3 Tore Juli 09 longer passes sometimes bounce a bit more. not like the real thing but still...

It's not necessary to compare the game to other games, just the game to reality, and believe me PES physics for passing and colliding doesn't match at all my experience with reality.
-there are many scenes (collisions)in pes 2009 which reflect the reality. have no proving video right now, but i see them every day ;)
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sry for my bad english.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think the problem is not with Seabass and KONAMI but with Japanese market.I mean with innovation,new technology,knowledge and developing.European,American and Canadian markets are much stroger than Japanese in all aspects.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Seppovich, I agree with most of the things you say, I was replying to jimmy that said that ball physics are nailed in pes, and I say no way, there are still a lot of things that can be improved massively. Specifically, ball physics in short passing are quite weak and should bounce a lot more, not only at the begining of the pass, but sometimes you cand do 15 meter passes that leave only some inches for all the path of the ball. Things like that are entirely missing in the game.

It seems they improved ball physics a little more in pes 2010, but the main problem it's still in the collision detection and scriptedness of everything. By scriptedness I mean that there's little relationship between what you can do with controls and the outcome in the game. I think there is a great consensus I think that the best thing is to have full control of the intentions and have the stats interfere more or less. As PES is on the "scripted"-stats driven side of the fence, a lot of the passes and shots doesn't really seem natural to me, the short passing , shooting and crossing sometimes don't hold any relationship with the player animation or the way the player is facing the ball.

That's because the cpu has decided something and throws the "most probable animation". That would be great if they had a great animation engine and literally thousands of animations combined with procedural animation. That makes some instances look odd, and to me and to a lot of people the biggest flaws of the game are that scriptedness and this weak relationship between what you see and what you get.

Actually, it would be so easy for them to make the game better without great investments. Just let the user have analogue passing and shooting and power bar for every kind of shot/pass. That would instantly make this game much better, though it wouldn't solve the animation engine problem.


I see a lot more loose balls in pes 2010 which is a good thing (play fifa in manual and there's plenty of loose balls, which I like) and some shot blocks, which again is better because in pes 2009 most of the times the ball would just take a perfect path to avoid the defender.

The reason why fifa
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

seppovich said:
ok. was just guessing why fifa's shots and some passes does not look real...
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Their algorithm for how the ball behave after a shot is taken just seems bad in 09. Everything just floats. Passing I don't know, I think it's pretty good. I don't like how the ball bounce around so much at their feet.


I really hope PES implements a similar animation system like FIFA has now. A lot of games are moving to animation systems with intelligent IK so Konami should just keep up with everyone else. Morpheme from NaturalMotion is another one they could use if they don't want HumanIK just because FIFA has it :) It's not like they don't have the money to invest in it. I guess language could be a problem so they only would want a system with good documentation/support in their language.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
...

The reason why fifa
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1st -thank you for your oppinion.

2nd -please explain me from your view, what the main problem with fifa is. why does fif09(ps3) e.g. does not feel and look real in shooting and crossing. (not the flight of the ball, i mean the shooting-animation when the ball leaves the players foot...)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
True about the cards, had forgot about them. I really hope they make a big difference, I like the idea behind it. Improved passing and shooting, well I guess it could be good, but just as well tweaked. Would be happy if Konami actually made a statement about revamping them. Even though assisted passing is not for me anyway.

Not sure why you are so angry. Not like I have been saying anything outrageous in these last posts.

Edit: Also I only speak for myself and so does "charlie". I haven't followed his posts at all.
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Angry? Not a chance I get angry when my staff don't follow procedures or when the peoplein traffic drive recklessly but getting angry on a videogame forum is not my style, sorry if I came across that way.

I was more agitated that after 268 pages of info way more than just graphics and lighting you just couldn't/didn't want to see it. Then you ask me a few times to state them and Charlie jumped onto your bandwagon.

but just to expand on what I mentioned yesterday. The gameplay improvements are not only confined to the 360 movement, tactics/sliders/cards and slow build up.
There are other improvements such as the return of the manual goalkeeping, which to me has always been a big deal and then theres off course the horrendous automated passing shooting and sliding, which in it's own right improves on PES2009 tenfold.

There are other unconfirmed improvements like the removal of the invisible walls and in manual goalkeeping the ability to pass the ball out to any player that you desire. But as with everything else we will have to see what comes on the 22nd october.

The fact that you only saw the graphics and lighting as an improvement were ludicrous and a little outrageous TBH.

By the way, if you want I will post a little reveiw and mention the improvements once I have tried the game out myself, because quite honestly this is the best way to do it.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
seppovic: FIFA uses HumanIK from Autodesk (same as Ass. Creed) so no they don't need to stop the ball, the animations adjust to the situation.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=13742401
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This middleware solutions work great for peasants (like GT4), but not for football players. Maybe in some contact situations, where there is no ball near, like a tackle, you can pass the control to the middleware, so the player being tackled tries to stay up, or fall in a realistic way.
But for contact in air, when players try to hit the ball, you still need recorded animations, or better, an specific adapted middleware for football.
But i dont think FIFA uses HumanIK to control balls, or shots...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Geez Jimmy I just watched your skills on the previous page. It typifies what I love about PES, awesome stuff man.

Also that 1st trick, how is that a glitch if the ball reacted to the players heel and foot to make a pretty neat looking flukey trick? I want things like that to happen, else it will be following a predetermined path and I don't want that.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

seppovich said:
1st -thank you for your oppinion.

2nd -please explain me from your view, what the main problem with fifa is. why does fif09(ps3) e.g. does not feel and look real in shooting and crossing. (not the flight of the ball, i mean the shooting-animation when the ball leaves the players foot...)
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You want to keep on discussing FIFA, please don't do it in here. Cheers!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeticH said:
This middleware solutions work great for peasants (like GT4), but not for football players. Maybe in some contact situations, where there is no ball near, like a tackle, you can pass the control to the middleware, so the player being tackled tries to stay up, or fall in a realistic way.
But for contact in air, when players try to hit the ball, you still need recorded animations, or better, an specific adapted middleware for football.
But i dont think FIFA uses HumanIK to control balls, or shots...
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Well GTA4 uses euphoria for contact situation if that is what you mean, and yeah I agree it is to early to use fully procedural animations. Probably would work when someone get tackled like you say.

With HumanIK you do have recorded animations. It's just that they are flexible so they can adjust a little. This is what happens to adjust the animation a little so that the foot hits the ball even if the ball is a little bit off to the original animation. There are some examples in those videos where it only use built in stuff like avoiding a barrel a little, otherwise it's still based on real animations.

Also try dribbling around doing skills in the arena on FIFA 09 and you'll see how the same skill animation adjusts a little depending on where the ball is. Same with shots, do finesse shots with the ball different distances from the body. If you're on manual you'll notice that if it is very close you'll hit it with inside/back of your foot making it start more left for example if you shoot with your right foot.

This is why everything is so smooth in FIFA and other games, because not only the foot adjusts, but all the limbs.

Edit: Sorry Tom, but it was an extension on why I would like new animation engine in PES, wrote it while you posted that.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
This is the Drogba goal I was talking about before. The perfect half volley, timed to absolute perfection. Essien wins the header, on for Drogba who sets it up with some nice chest control, and the timing of the volley as the ball drops is awesome. Drogba's stride is perfect, the ball is in the exact position to hit that volley, it just drops, begging to be hit. Goals like this were alot more common in PES 6, but in PES 2009 they are a rarity.

Sorry for the poor camera work, I've done it with my phone. I love how the keeper is stood after the goal kick. He then realises whats happening and trys to get central, but is still just too far off his line. The dip catches him totally off guard. Classic.

YouTube - Drogba Screamer
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What makes that goal for me is it clips the bar and bounces down and then up again. Some people are net freaks, shirt freaks and boot freaks but I'm a 'crossbar and in' freak. I love goals like that.

YouTube - Tony yeboah wondergoal against liverpool
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Tom said:
You want to keep on discussing FIFA, please don't do it in here. Cheers!
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It works both ways Tom to be fair. We dont as a rule like to talk about Fifa in a detrimental way in here, even when provoked. But certain people do feel the need to push their views of the game upon us. If Fifa never got mentioned in this thread again, I personally would the happiest man on this site. :SAL:

Edit - Radiation - This was one superb strike, but the one he scored in the same season against Wimbledon, ( I think it was ), where he took it on his knee first was for me, even better than the Liverpool one. I think they both finished in the Top 3 goals of the season, but I may be wrong.
 
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Demo this Thursday!?

Anyone reckon the demo will be this Thursday 10th Sept to coincide with the fifa 10 demo?

I have a feeling it might be. Konami held back on the whole 360 degree dribbling debacle perhaps to make a joke out of EA who had hyped it up so much.

Perhaps they will announce this tomorrow or maybe Thursday itself?

What do you all reckon?
 
Re: Demo this Thursday!?

Rama78 said:
Anyone reckon the demo will be this Thursday 10th Sept to coincide with the fifa 10 demo?

I have a feeling it might be. Konami held back on the whole 360 degree dribbling debacle perhaps to make a joke out of EA who had hyped it up so much.

Perhaps they will announce this tomorrow or maybe Thursday itself?

What do you all reckon?
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i think it's not possible

Dates are september 23 or october 1
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Radiation said:
What makes that goal for me is it clips the bar and bounces down and then up again. Some people are net freaks, shirt freaks and boot freaks but I'm a 'crossbar and in' freak. I love goals like that.

YouTube - Tony yeboah wondergoal against liverpool
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I am just like you.

Ever since I've been here I've been going on about "That Yeboah goal" as an example of how good crossbar goals can ruin a set of underwear.

Oh man I remember the commentary from it so well "Yeboah with a chance..." followed by that goal <3

I love Yeboah. What a name.


YouTube - yeboahhhhhhh
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Me and my brothers have always called those kinds of goals a 'Yeboah' goal since he scored a couple of them,. Like the 'Cruyff Turn'. You don't have to spend ages describing how the ball bounced, you just say 'I Scored in the 90th minutes and won on away goals and it was a Yeboah'
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

pes2010 preview from israli games site



We tried the beta of the new soccer game, we saw the many promises of Konami indeed become a reality: improvements in graphics, artificial intelligence and control on the players

After already told you about all that-Konami promises for the next game in a series of Pro Evolution Soccer, we had the opportunity to try it ourselves fairly stable beta. Game developers Less than a month left to finish work, so our version quite faithfully reflects what that would be the final product.

The first thing that will note the entry field is, not surprisingly, the dramatic improvement in graphic quality. FIFA gap opening series against the PES in the past year it became quite unbearable, and in-Konami trying to improve the situation with accurate animations and realistic facial expressions.

Even the crowd looks better and learn to react quickly to what is happening on the field, to encourage the home team and whistling contempt for guests when they start to annoy. With all these improvements, it should be noted that-Pro Evolution Socer 2010 still based on an improved version of his predecessors to prevent graphics and a brand new technology. FIFA gap between him and a small, but still exists.

Players with all
One of the largest advertising promises of Koanmi to-PES 2010 is a new artificial intelligence system, which should make your players and your team much more intelligent and productive. Based on the beta, I tend to carefully determine that the transformation had occurred, responses from the computerized Lfaolotichm players were much more reasonable.

Most notable difference is that I ran into the nature doormen. These will not hesitate this time to you quickly, you destroy burst attacks and generally act as an alive and breathing and not like a log that lies gently at the gate. They coordinate more with defense players, who also are upgrading, will wait for you in the right place and not give up easily. The game became harder, run amok into an extension lead you lost a ball for sure.

To have a chance against the teams you will be asked to dig computerized settings menus, which include almost anything now imaginable - things like game speed desired rate of devotion, depth and activity of each player and more. The menus themselves do not add anything right now, for those that received beta were simply shocking level graphic design, and really pretty sure it was something quite temporary.




Joint exercises

Control of the model itself through 360 degrees, ie, vote with the direction the analog stick of gum would be the exact direction where the ball will be given or kick. Another trick joining a variety of buttons is the ability to read at - Once in a joint exercise players. If your opponent does not understand at what you do, an exercise that can develop for you the whole plot to attack a particularly aggressive.

Beta version of Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 is clearly transcends the previous game (very disappointing, in my opinion) the series was unchallenged domination of the genre computerized football, until she woke-EA Sports responded. But it is important to remember that now-EA resting on the laurels, and there prepare for us a long list of improvements and upgrades for FIFA 10.

At least one thing completely convinced: The guys on-Konami not indifferent to criticism, well aware that something was a series of PES did not work properly last versions, and are hesitant to touch the heart of the game to try to improve and renew it. 360 degrees of control, upgraded artificial intelligence model settings and wealth - all these are dramatic innovations that may completely change the nature of the game at the highest levels. Really it's time for change, and I think this year will compare to PES-FIFA particularly interesting.

sound very positive
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Letter from jon murphy konami......

Gamescom and Beyond...


It's been a few weeks since the last post, but Jon Murphy has updated the Konami Blog.

It's a reflection on the recent Gamescom event and he touches on how fan feedback has changed the game for the better.


“Me again.

A couple of big things to report. First off we've now announced all the fan improvements. I've been dying to tell everyone about all the improvements so it's a relief everything is out in the open!
I've been checking feedback through forums and I think for the first time in a couple of years we've gone beyond expectations. Once again, thanks to everyone who gave the team feedback which influenced development. Long may this process continue.

Code shown at Gamescom seemed to go down well with those who got a game or two. I've seen some discussions since (and a few videos) and certain points have caused concern, particularly keepers. As Seabass said the code was a month old and improvements are still being made. I have to say that from my experience of recent code keepers are much, much more competent. Cheap rebound goals are gone and most handle the ball well. Occasional mistakes are still made, but that's as it should
be - it happens in real life.

For me the other big news is we've finished player photo and video shoots. It's great to see the finish line!

Not long to go now until we release a demo for everyone to test. You'll get a chance to see the new PES for yourselves and make up your minds about how we've reflected what the what fans want.

Cheers,
Jon
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Most notable difference is that I ran into the nature doormen. :CONFUSE:These will not hesitate this time to you quickly, you destroy burst attacks and generally act as an alive and breathing and not like a log that lies gently at the gate:THINK:. They coordinate more with defense players, who also are upgrading, will wait for you in the right place and not give up easily. The game became harder, run amok into an extension lead you lost a ball for sure.
:APPLAUD:

Thanks Yair 12,

these translations are hilarious
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Stay positive,it's really impossible to judge it on what someone else says.You got to play it yourself.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I lol at the fact that people had an undying hope of PES coming back to full show in a span of a year, Fifa 10 has made about the same progress as PES 10 and when people took a look at it it looked like a 9.5.

No way could Konami perform a full 360(no pun intented) on the entire series. Pes 11 will give them time to focus on the most important area.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

mr_man said:
I lol at the fact that people had an undying hope of PES coming back to full show in a span of a year, Fifa 10 has made about the same progress as PES 10 and when people took a look at it it looked like a 9.5.

No way could Konami perform a full 360(no pun intented) on the entire series. Pes 11 will give them time to focus on the most important area.
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The only thing that is bothering me at the moment about PES 2010 is the comments about responsiveness. Everything else that I'm bothered about seems to have been addressed. The new Master League sounds amazing, the toughened AI, and the more football orientated defensive approach is perfect for the way I love to play the game. I really cant wait.

Here's hoping everybodys preferred game, which ever one that may be, suits our respective tastes and we can all be one happy bunch of campers. :BEER:
 
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