PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Putuco Malo said:
Jesus, if you dont know Spanish, dont translate!!!
The first three sentences are correctly translated, but the last one means something completely different!!!

He means "the gloves of the Goalkeepers who uses long sleeves will be ugly, a little less ugly, but still ugly"...

Nothing to do with spilled balls at all!!!
Click to expand...

OMG LOL! And to make things worse, reading it again it has nothing to do with what I translated. In fact, I have no idea how I read that in there... :FAIL: Someone send me a proper fail pic or something, i deserve it.. :LMAO:

Tbh I do speak spanish (although i'm portuguese), proper one. Ffs :(
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

_anderson said:
OMG LOL! And to make things worse, reading it again it has nothing to do with what I translated. In fact, I have no idea how I read that in there... :FAIL: Someone send me a proper fail pic or something, i deserve it.. :LMAO:

Tbh I do speak spanish (although i'm portuguese), proper one. Ffs :(
Click to expand...

translation-fail.jpg
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
More realistic ball physics is funny? Also don't know how to explain it to you if you don't know what that is.
Click to expand...

PES has always nailed the ball physics. The fact you cant answer 'HOW' it should be improved proves to me you dont have a clue.

What areas ? What exactly for the most part is incorrect ? Because I'm sorry but I dont see it.

The height of the ball struck should always for the most part depend on the variables with regards the situation. For example, the easiest way to keep the ball low and hard is when the ball is passed back, along the deck, onto the stride of the incoming player. The pace of the pass is relevant as well, as you use the momentum to replace the power placed on the strike with technique. This is the naturally easiest way to ensure the ball stays low and hard. You need to keep your head down, this stops you automatically leaning back and causing the ball to rise.

You will here coaches shout, "Get your head over it " basically meaning, keep your head low and over the ball.

The other variables require a higher degree of technique to pull off. The hardest shot to hit is the one that comes over your shoulder. It requires perfect timing and balance, eye and foot co-ordination. Striking the ball on the drop, i.e connecting your strike just as the ball falls and hits the deck at the precise moment will ensure, if done correctly the ball stays hard and low. It requires split second timing. The most difficult is to hit the ball on the drop volley. If you delay, and the ball hits the deck and starts to rise, thats when technique plays another big part. It is at this point your body angle and balance need to be adjusted in order for you to get over the ball. You do this by addressing the ball from the side and getting your leg/foot over the ball. By this I mean strike the ball between the centre sweet spot and above. This is the only way to stop the ball from rising.

Paul Scholes is a master of both these techniques.

If the ball is played from the side into the path of the oncoming strike then you have a few more options. The first being very difficult to keep low. You need to strike the ball dead centre to high, and with the 'laces', or the centre of you boot. It's another hard technique to master as timing is paramount. The ball is coming across your body so keeping the strike straight is very difficult. If done incorrectly your more likely to hit the ball left or right of centre which ends up your shot flying wide left or right of the target. Most players would probably opt to open their body in the this situation and use top end of the instep. This wouldnt keep the ball low but would give you more control of the shot. Which could either be bent with power and control, or placed using the center part of the boot instep.

You should never be able to keep the shot low with power without the ball being at least 3-4 yards out of your feet. Unless it's the drop volley mentioned earlier. Power versus height shouldnt be compromised in this situation.

If you want to stay true to the game, they really should never be a button that dicates how you keep the ball low and hard, it all should rely on actual physics.

It's simply all about timing if you looking for power and accuracy. You have still have another alternative then to hit the ball dead centre with your boots sweetspot, or 'laces' as you may hear it referred to. This is to attack the strike with the outside of the boot, and slice through it at the balls top left hand corner, ( if your right footed). This will ensure the ball dips low with drive and bend.

This is all relevant to how the ball lies, it's height, whether it's dropping or rising again.

I must admit, up until PES 2009 I had never tried to the R2 modifier. When I played the other game the finesse shot looked awesome but so was unrealistic I thought that I really dont even want to attempt this on PES as it could partly shatter my illusion of everything I believe to be to physically correct within the game. I tried this R2 modifier just to see how Konami had handled it and it was very clever.

When you modify the shot with R2, it is kind of like a fake shot at first. It removes the power generated by the shot, there is a slight pause which in turn gives the striker the time to open up his body, to then give a more controlled side foot style finish. It doesnt guarantee a goal, which is paramount, but it does exchange power for precision, and it does it quite realistically. We see this many times in the real game where you think a player will blast it, drops his shoulder, then opens up for the more controlled finish.

The bottom line is, you can never have a button that dicates a low shot, use natural physics to be your judge. That is the only way. On PES the rest like I said before is down to the players attributes.

This scripting talk makes me laugh. Please appreciate that with so much individualism in PES, it ensures a vast amount of variables which become almost infinite. No player is the same in any of the combined attributes which opens up endless scenarios. If anything, looking outside the box, manual is more scripted. Press the power at X, ball goes to Y. Hence the complaints in the other game of easy lobs. Once mastered its scripted. Using individual stats, you never know what the outcome will be as the individual players stats combined with your body postition, balance, angle etc determine the outcome. Which again could be anything. Nothing is certain in football.

Every player having differing skill sets means you will always have the 'Magic' people refer to, and unpredictability this games brings.

You can slag off the animations, samey ML, limited licences, boring menu screens etc etc etc etc etc. But the bottom line is, should you wish to, or want to believe it, PES try's to emulate real football. You simulate what you covet. Simulating real players and weighty ball physics is the only way to really achieve a comparison to the beautiful game.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
PES has always nailed the ball physics. The fact you cant answer 'HOW' it should be improved proves to me you dont have a clue.

What areas ? What exactly for the most part is incorrect ? Because I'm sorry but I dont see it.

The height of the ball struck should always for the most part depend on the variables with regards the situation. For example, the easiest way to keep the ball low and hard is when the ball is passed back, along the deck, onto the stride of the incoming player. The pace of the pass is relevant as well, as you use the momentum to replace the power placed on the strike with technique. This is the naturally easiest way to ensure the ball stays low and hard. You need to keep your head down, this stops you automatically leaning back and causing the ball to rise.

You will here coaches shout, "Get your head over it " basically meaning, keep your head low and over the ball.

The other variables require a higher degree of technique to pull off. The hardest shot to hit is the one that comes over your shoulder. It requires perfect timing and balance, eye and foot co-ordination. Striking the ball on the drop, i.e connecting your strike just as the ball falls and hits the deck at the precise moment will ensure, if done correctly the ball stays hard and low. It requires split second timing. The most difficult is to hit the ball on the drop volley. If you delay, and the ball hits the deck and starts to rise, thats when technique plays another big part. It is at this point your body angle and balance need to be adjusted in order for you to get over the ball. You do this by addressing the ball from the side and getting your leg/foot over the ball. By this I mean strike the ball between the centre sweet spot and above. This is the only way to stop the ball from rising.

Paul Scholes is a master of both these techniques.

If the ball is played from the side into the path of the oncoming strike then you have a few more options. The first being very difficult to keep low. You need to strike the ball dead centre to high, and with the 'laces', or the centre of you boot. It's another hard technique to master as timing is paramount. The ball is coming across your body so keeping the strike straight is very difficult. If done incorrectly your more likely to hit the ball left or right of centre which ends up your shot flying wide left or right of the target. Most players would probably opt to open their body in the this situation and use top end of the instep. This wouldnt keep the ball low but would give you more control of the shot. Which could either be bent with power and control, or placed using the center part of the boot instep.

You should never be able to keep the shot low with power without the ball being at least 3-4 yards out of your feet. Unless it's the drop volley mentioned earlier. Power versus height shouldnt be compromised in this situation.

If you want to stay true to the game, they really should never be a button that dicates how you keep the ball low and hard, it all should rely on actual physics.

It's simply all about timing if you looking for power and accuracy. You have still have another alternative then to hit the ball dead centre with your boots sweetspot, or 'laces' as you may hear it referred to. This is to attack the strike with the outside of the boot, and slice through it at the balls top left hand corner, ( if your right footed). This will ensure the ball dips low with drive and bend.

This is all relevant to how the ball lies, it's height, whether it's dropping or rising again.

I must admit, up until PES 2009 I had never tried to the R2 modifier. When I played the other game the finesse shot looked awesome but so was unrealistic I thought that I really dont even want to attempt this on PES as it could partly shatter my illusion of everything I believe to be to physically correct within the game. I tried this R2 modifier just to see how Konami had handled it and it was very clever.

When you modify the shot with R2, it is kind of like a fake shot at first. It removes the power generated by the shot, there is a slight pause which in turn gives the striker the time to open up his body, to then give a more controlled side foot style finish. It doesnt guarantee a goal, which is paramount, but it does exchange power for precision, and it does it quite realistically. We see this many times in the real game where you think a player will blast it, drops his shoulder, then opens up for the more controlled finish.

The bottom line is, you can never have a button that dicates a low shot, use natural physics to be your judge. That is the only way. On PES the rest like I said before is down to the players attributes.

This scripting talk makes me laugh. Please appreciate that with so much individualism in PES, it ensures a vast amount of variables which become almost infinite. No player is the same in any of the combined attributes which opens up endless scenarios. If anything, looking outside the box, manual is more scripted. Press the power at X, ball goes to Y. Hence the complaints in the other game of easy lobs. Once mastered its scripted. Using individual stats, you never know what the outcome will be as the individual players stats combined with your body postition, balance, angle etc determine the outcome. Which again could be anything. Nothing is certain in football.

Every player having differing skill sets means you will always have the 'Magic' people refer to, and unpredictability this games brings.

You can slag off the animations, samey ML, limited licences, boring menu screens etc etc etc etc etc. But the bottom line is, should you wish to, or want to believe it, PES try's to emulate real football. You simulate what you covet. Simulating real players and weighty ball physics is the only way to really achieve a comparison to the beautiful game.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about how different positioning decides how the ball goes when you take a shot. I mean general ball physics. As in how the ball behave when it is free (and I guess also under control of a player). The ball moves like a marble on ice (or a bowling ball) when it is free. Oddly enough it bounce almost in slow motion. And when a player have the ball it looks like it is pushed back to prevent it from sliding away from the player. When it is free it glides along the pitch quickly but not when "under control". It's like it is attached to the foot with a string.

To me it doesn't behave like in real life at all.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
I'm not talking about how different positioning decides how the ball goes when you take a shot. I mean general ball physics. As in how the ball behave when it is free (and I guess also under control of a player). The ball moves like a marble on ice (or a bowling ball) when it is free. Oddly enough it bounce almost in slow motion. And when a player have the ball it looks like it is pushed back to prevent it from sliding away from the player. When it is free it glides along the pitch quickly but not when "under control". It's like it is attached to the foot with a string.

To me it doesn't behave like in real life at all.
Click to expand...

are you talking about fifa09?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Sorry Jimmy, but even if you write the bible again from scratch there's no way to justify that heavy balls rolling on a marble floor resemble at all a footy ball in a pitch.

PES has quite good physics for shooting and crossing due to the scripted nature of those actions. Of course they are also well coded to make great parabolic movements.

But out of that, PES physics for passing are very poor, not to mention collisions. You can see many instances in the pes2010 videos where the ball doesn't fit at all the animations and seem to react on his own following a predetermined path (messi crossing with the nail and the ball going in bullet time and spinning straight to Henry's head) or takes that odd rebound you wouldn't see in reality, and almost all the passes perfectly roll through the floor, without any bouncing at the start of the passing even for large low passes.

It's not necessary to compare the game to other games, just the game to reality, and believe me PES physics for passing and colliding doesn't match at all my experience with reality.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I've always thought the ball in pes 09 felt like a futsal ball, heavy-ish. By far the most dissapointing thing to me is the lack of swerve in the air.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
I'm not talking about how different positioning decides how the ball goes when you take a shot. I mean general ball physics. As in how the ball behave when it is free (and I guess also under control of a player). The ball moves like a marble on ice (or a bowling ball) when it is free. Oddly enough it bounce almost in slow motion. And when a player have the ball it looks like it is pushed back to prevent it from sliding away from the player. When it is free it glides along the pitch quickly but not when "under control". It's like it is attached to the foot with a string.

To me it doesn't behave like in real life at all.
Click to expand...

Thats a decent reply Gab, full marks. I can agree to an extent about the ball staying on the grass a little more than it should, especially when dribbling. Maybe the odd bobble here and there would help, but overall the weighty ball physics feel excellent to me. It 'feel's right when the ball is struck, and it moves through the air right, whether it's been floated in, drilled in, or whipped in, it just feels right.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

To be honest I'm not bothered about the Snow, editing boots and net editor like a lot of people. If Konami get the net right in the first place then there would be no need for this feature anyway. I'd assume a net feature would only to change the colour and may be the shape of the holes in the net. Sort of stuff at the bottom end of lists but something may be to consider in the future.

Snow would be okay in Master league but in PES6 it didn't really effect the ball that much. Might of made it a bit slower but nothing ground breaking.

Can't remember who started that rumour and pretended like it was fact but they are a right saddo
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I tell ya what, there is far too much analyzing going on here. It's just a bit riduculous/sad that everything is looked at so critically. I purchased all my previous PES games without reading a single review, without looking at arm movements and running styles..............I loved them all.

My point is that there is no need to justify what is good when you know it's better. I did not purchase PES 2008 but still played 6 & 09..........they were also very average.

Even my old eyes can see its improved, I don't need telling what I can already see, but the negatives do not prevent me from buying a game that I will no doubt enjoy, If I don't then it goes in the bargain bin but please give the whats wrong with it talk a rest and let those that are really looking forward to it enjoy the moment.

I appreciate everyone has a very valuable opinion but can we not have a discussion about what is good about it and where it looks to have improved.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
I tell ya what, there is far too much analyzing going on here. It's just a bit riduculous/sad that everything is looked at so critically. I purchased all my previous PES games without reading a single review, without looking at arm movements and running styles..............I loved them all.

My point is that there is no need to justify what is good when you know it's better. I did not purchase PES 2008 but still played 6 & 09..........they were also very average.

Even my old eyes can see its improved, I don't need telling what I can already see, but the negatives do not prevent me from buying a game that I will no doubt enjoy, If I don't then it goes in the bargain bin but please give the whats wrong with it talk a rest and let those that are really looking forward to it enjoy the moment.

I appreciate everyone has a very valuable opinion but can we not have a discussion about what is good about it and where it looks to have improved.
Click to expand...

Amen Sir. :SAL:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

wan_d7 said:
don't worry, I'm still going to play it, just for the sake I'm a fan of PES... which hard for me, couldn't resist it even how bullshit it is to play 2009, i still play it. how pathetic is the feeling but I'm so stuck with pes. :CRY:
Click to expand...

Why would anyone worry if you stop playing the game. I'm much more worried that there are people out there who play a game that they don't like just because they think chosing one of the two brands is a religious act. I don't get this fan bullshit. I used to play FIFA06 and 07, then PES 2008 and 2009. Not because I "changed sides". I simply picked the better game each year (I play PC in case someone's wondering why I play PES at the moment).

If you don't like PES, don't play it. But don't come back here after you've gone awol, could be dangerous, hahaha.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

August said:
Why would anyone worry if you stop playing the game. I'm much more worried that there are people out there who play a game that they don't like just because they think chosing one of the two brands is a religious act. I don't get this fan bullshit. I used to play FIFA06 and 07, then PES 2008 and 2009. Not because I "changed sides". I simply picked the better game each year (I play PC in case someone's wondering why I play PES at the moment).

If you don't like PES, don't play it. But don't come back here after you've gone awol, could be dangerous, hahaha.
Click to expand...

True. Personally I don't play Fifa because I don't have a NG console. 2008 and 2009 has been a drought for me... Oh well, I still have my up-to-date PES 6 :P
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

ISS64 was one of the best games ever (360 controle curling, dribbling tricks etc.), but for fluid gameplay they skipped animations, sometimes fifa 09 looks scripted, as your trying to do something quickly, but the animation is still going through its frames.

so for me its not only about animations, but fluidity and responsiveness, if this gets nailed on in pes2010, then it will be some game.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I come here to find out the latest news, get links to new screens and videos and to read posts about PES.

I like analysis, its interesting and some posts have been good to read, yet I feel there is a bad atmosphere in here.
Many posts are condescending and sardonic.
Not naming any names but I think the room could do with a lift, all this backbiting is booooring.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I know alot of you probably aren't that interested, but I loved this cheeky little move I pulled off the other day against a mate of mine. We were playing Villareal v Espanyol, and I'd never seen this Ronaldo type trick before.


YouTube - MOV01063
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

tandeh said:
which game is that?
Click to expand...


PES 2009, Xbox 360 bud. I have a load of videos like this with crazy little feints, will upload some more when I pick up my HD camcorder. I really hope PES 2010 follows suit with these quick little moves that sometimes just come from no-where. I have seen some crazy stuff happen in PES2009 that I have never seen in any other PES game.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

This is the Drogba goal I was talking about before. The perfect half volley, timed to absolute perfection. Essien wins the header, on for Drogba who sets it up with some nice chest control, and the timing of the volley as the ball drops is awesome. Drogba's stride is perfect, the ball is in the exact position to hit that volley, it just drops, begging to be hit. Goals like this were alot more common in PES 6, but in PES 2009 they are a rarity.

Sorry for the poor camera work, I've done it with my phone. I love how the keeper is stood after the goal kick. He then realises whats happening and trys to get central, but is still just too far off his line. The dip catches him totally off guard. Classic.

YouTube - Drogba Screamer
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
This is the Drogba goal I was talking about before. The perfect half volley, timed to absolute perfection. Essien wins the header, on for Drogba who sets it up with some nice chest control, and the timing of the volley as the ball drops is awesome. Drogba's stride is perfect, the ball is in the exact position to hit that volley, it just sits up, begging to be hit. Goals like this were alot more common in PES 6, but in PES 2009 they are a rarity.

Sorry for the poor camera work, I've done it with my phone. I love how the keeper is stood after the goal kick. He then realises whats happening and trys to get central, but is still just to far off his line. The dip catches him totally off guard. Classic.

YouTube - Drogba Screamer
Click to expand...

That is one lovely strike mate :SHOCK:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

TanMak said:
no offence but that looks more toward a collision glitch then a 'new' trick imho
Click to expand...


None taken, it does look like he has used his left heel to knock it onto his right heel, and the way he moves afterwards suggests it was intentional, but I maybe wrong.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

No net editor? What about the yellow nets? and the blue/red nets from a very early vid? Pff have to wait till 22nd then :(
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
None taken, it does look like he has used his left heel to knock it onto his right heel, and the way he moves afterwards suggests it was intentional, but I maybe wrong.
Click to expand...

The Drogba volley is great. About the other video, no way in hell it is a "trick". It's a normal feint suddenly turning into a odd animation due to a collission. Don't try to see anything else there.
 
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