PES 2019 News Discussion Thread (INSULTS/DIGS = INSTANT BAN)

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DerleiPT said:
+ what i have seen so far , also speed stats doesnt matter at all . Its like another year all players have same speed ,shoot , passing stats..... soulless experience and game breaker for me.
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Que in the PES 2019 speed test where everyone runs the same which looks absolutely ridiculous that this is still the case
 
kernowdoc said:
If so, then every game v the cpu is going to feel very samey again. Too many football fundamentals/basics still missing for me. The Power Of Football - more like playing ice hockey or Speedball 2. Not holding out much hope for a descent master league campaign once again. Arcade fest ahoy!
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If that will be confirmed, I'd probably be out for good this year. I've lost enough time with 2018 in this regard, I have no interest in playing the Football version of Dark Souls where every small team is OP, I want something with variety that makes some sense in regards of stats and value. If they took that awful shortcut this year too instead of putting in something that at least resembles a coherent and varied experience, they won't get my money.
 
Madmac79 said:
Football version of Dark Souls where every small team is OP
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Dark Souls is not that difficult, besides, enemies don't cheat. Once you learn how to face them and you are patient you kill them easily. Can't say the same with Pes 2018 CPU where suddenly low reated teams switch to superultra top player team, chain 10 consecutive quick passes in few seconds and score in low corner with a rocket shot. Can't do anything in that situation.
 
Ameppe said:
Dark Souls is not that difficult, besides, enemies don't cheat. Once you learn how to face them and you are patient you kill them easily. Can't say the same with Pes 2018 CPU where suddenly low reated teams switch to superultra top player team, chain 10 consecutive quick passes in few seconds and score in low corner with a rocket shot. Can't do anything in that situation.
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I agree with you, I just wanted to make a comparison with something that the majority of gamers regard as "hard".

Just to set it right, because otherwise somebody could say that I (or we) just want an easy game.. it's not like that at all of course. I like a lot hard games.. I love roguelikes, for examples. I love permadeath in games. I love Dwarf Fortress. And many others.

But that kind of surreal difficulty has his place. When I play a football game I want plausibility. Make it so big teams are crazy good as they should be. Make it so that I'm forced to rotate my team or suffer injuries. Make it so that if I pick a small team I have the hard time I deserve. Make it so that a small team parks the bus and I have to really struggle to score. And on and on and on. I can live with any kind of hardship you put me up as long as it makes sense.
But having Spal playing tiki taka? It's a cheap cop out to not develop a decent AI/system and kills every immersion possible instantly, at least for me.

Hope 2019 will at least be better in this sense.
 
Ameppe said:
I think it's quite clear he is not the one taking decisions in the dev team. Consider he also is a great fan of Master League, he always has been, but if they tell him Master League is not a priority he just accepts that.
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The problem is not Adam but amateurs dev team who for 5 years of next gen consoles cant make nice looking menus and UI.
 
Topaz said:
So a friend of mine who has played the game said that the passing stats doesn't affect the CPU. Any team can do tiki taka with 90% to 95% passing completion. So I guess it is another PES where it's harder to beat Coventry City than Real Madrid.

Good news is that on PA1, the better the passing stats your controlled player have, the lesser the mistakes which is good to know. Not sure why they can't implement that for the CPU AI.
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Are you sure bro. It doesn’t look this way from the vids. CPU misplace passes a lot.
 
B-Man said:
I mean...when was WE7I/PES3? 15 years ago? And in that game if A.I. is losing they’ll change formation, take off defender put on an attacking player, turn attack/defense all the way up. That was 15 years ago....let that sink in

I knew offline wasn’t going to be for me because of stupid basic football elements that were once in the game and now gone but I’m still looking forward to trying multiplayer. Hopefully those really assisted vids were on higher pass levels. I’d like to enjoy some matches with friends online. But clearly myClub gonna be and end to end fest playing ppl who use higher Assist

Sad because I really like what I’m seeing with shooting and the ball physics and I bet star players feel really good
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The offline ai should be a lot more dynamic/intelligent on this gen by now. So much of the good gameplay stuff that was implemented in pes all of those years ago still missing. Even basics like the replay free cam and lousy commentary and sfx are unforgivable imo. It's always bare bones investment from Konami year after year.
 
Lons said:
The problem is not Adam but amateurs dev team who for 5 years of next gen consoles cant make nice looking menus and UI.
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I don't think you need to be a professional to make a better UI to be honest. They just don't care at all about all that,they do the bare minimum to make it work, they don't care about how does it appear, if it's ugly or not.
 
Ameppe said:
I don't think you need to be a professional to make a better UI to be honest. They just don't care at all about all that,they do the bare minimum to make it work, they don't care about how does it appear, if it's ugly or not.
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Some people will say Konami has limited budget and UI/menu is not one of their priorities.
Creating a nice UI/menu is one of the improvements they can do, without spending a lot of money/manpower.
Maybe, they also spend very little on the things they are prioritizing/focusing on, that's why they spend almost zero money/manpower to the things their not focusing on like MENU/UI.

Also, what's really their FOCUS this year?
Graphics? It's basically the same as last year. Looks like they just change the color palette/textures here and there.
Lighting? It's basically same as last year. It just looks different since they change the color palette and textures.
Gameplay? It's basically same as last year. Defense still doesn't have common sense. All teams still plays the same.
Animation? It's basically just adding few new animations. Turning/running still looks shitty.
Audio? Nevermind.

All in all, the improvements from last year are patch-like improvements and doesn't take much effort.
Minimum effort but asking for a full price = high return of investment. Can't blame them, it's a business.
Most of the new features already in the game. They just changed it a little and then market it as new game.
 
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Lons said:
If they really think what you say it shows that they mentality amateurs in develop games in these days.
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They are definitely amateurs in their approach to Pes development. It also feels like they don't have motivation to do better either, like they don't care to improve their product. Everything in Pes nowadays is so sterile and frankly boring. Menus, AI,stadium atmosphere, gameplay, modes.

Their only motivation to improve is only in Myclub that is the only mode that brings them money, as you can see from the trailer it's also the only mode they worked on.
 
Ameppe said:
Consider he also is a great fan of Master League, he always has been, but if they tell him Master League is not a priority he just accepts that.
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Not only does he just accept it, he then bullshits to us all about how it is a priority.

I'm sure if it was put to him he'd say how we "don't know about the work being done behind the scenes" to improve it but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. ML looks almost untouched since last year, which was untouched since the year before and so on. I'm so very tired of Konami's PR lines; I'm only interested in what they do these days and that doesn't often amount to much.
 
Volun said:
Just a few animations? Think about all the new goal celebrations they added
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I've seen a few, I'm sure there's more. But I don't pay much attention to the goal celebrations. They are cheaply-made/lifeless/cringy anyways. Nice and fun at first, but gets old immediately. I'm more concern with the gameplay animations.
 
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NIK778899 said:
Not only does he just accept it, he then bullshits to us all about how it is a priority.

I'm sure if it was put to him he'd say how we "don't know about the work being done behind the scenes" to improve it but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. ML looks almost untouched since last year, which was untouched since the year before and so on. I'm so very tired of Konami's PR lines; I'm only interested in what they do these days and that doesn't often amount to much.
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I couldn't agree more with this. A lot of the shit Konami and their reps get is caused by them. If they stopped lying for once then people might not get so annoyed when things don't happen. There's clearly too many yes men working for Konami who tell them everything is wonderful and won't accept any criticism of the game. We need a link between long time PES fans and Konami who will actually speak up for us and tell them what we want. There's no reason they can't have the ping pong nonsense for Myclub and some proper play for those of us who like Master League via sliders.

EA are no different though to be fair. Apparently there's a whole team that works on Career Mode over there. All I can say is it must be the easiest job in the world because they don't seem to have actually done anything for about 3 years other than move some things around and have different menus/graphics.
 
hitmanuk said:
Probably another purpse online play design..meaningless stats equals means a more level playing field. You can play online as your favourite team e.g.stoke and still have a chance against Barcelona...obviously ruins moses like ML..i miss those old days when buying a particular player in ML actually changed your team
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That hit me like lightning!!
To me this was one of the MAIN things in old PES. Sub in. Change game style. Easy as pie.
I’d go so far and say; one of the pillars back then. Fundamental.
:)
 
In my own view, ML is the most prioritary offline game mode, a mode who's defined PES since a long time.
You can't compare it with the "try" BAL.
It's not (edit) like it's gonna dissapear totally, but it's still a very low priority vs others mode, i mean i don't see any vids, tweets, discussions or whatever including BAL... Perhaps there's a 3 pages thread here or on PESGAMING, but that's all.
There was surveys, and you (i think) and me have given answers to their question... What was your priority of the "most played mode"? BAL? Let's be honest, certainely not.

Do you prefers have Champion's League mode visuals, or much more leagues in the game? You will respond "both", but they've needed to make a choice relative to their budget. I'm happy to see new league coming, and even if they aren't perfect with some mistake, i could understand it for the first year appearing in the game.

So let's recap: this year, few new leagues are coming, and game mode most played (Myclub, Division and i think ML also) are impacted. They lose CL for the better. PES production needs to focus, this year, on many things... And they don't have that manpower. Choices needs to make quick and effective.
Kei Masuda needs to focus on the demands: no sells/no game... That's a fact. I understand some criticism, but you sometimes needs to reconsiders everything. Context, current situation, past, demands, budget, manpower, new things to manage etc.

If i was him i should focus this year on the same thing the team is (trying to) focus on:
-The amount of teams/data and makes them as least with good representation (players, stadiums, formations, etc.) at a professionnal level. That's need many manpower to achieve it on a half year... I don't think they're sure to include some league before the contract have been signed.
-Improving the most played modes, with the management of those new leagues on it: those ones will impact every mode.
-Of course, improving the gameplay itself, make it "fresh", and visual especially in game.
-Make the game competitive in terms of sold, and please everyone: it's not a game like Fifa who sells every year for the complete package. So, improving the strenghtnesses of PES and what's make it different (so even Fifa's players could eventually buy it too)

And also i'm repeating himself: PES has NEVER BEEN an sim. Tactically different yes, but not a sim at all. I've retried every PES since a week, and excepted PES 2014 which suffers from input lag and perhaps the most terrible goalkeeper in the PES history, i see exactly what Seabass was explaining: an action football game. Not a simulation like the medias said, not an arcade game.
A football game based on the best action you could see on football... But differently handled from iteration to iteration.
But one thing i totally agree with you, is the lacks of fouls, or "contact", and referee's decisions. That's a thing to work on, especially coming from the CPU (not an issue on 1v1)

Also, much pronounced attributes meaningless in game... But i believe (or hope) that PES 2019 will be better on that, that was something everybody pointed out: attributes, especially technical have some impact, but to contextually based on.
 
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RockyJJP said:
Are you sure bro. It doesn’t look this way from the vids. CPU misplace passes a lot.
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I mean we will find out pretty soon. I have seen a gameplay video aswell today were Monaco was playing tiki taka football with 92% passing completion in superstar so it still might be the case again this year.

Edit: What's the point of adding so many new teams and leagues if at the end of the day when controlled by the CPU, they play the same way? But I will believe it after I play demo. Hopefully there are some lesser teams in the demo that I can compare with in Superstar.
 
Few things to add after watching a few gameplay videos:
- Goalkeepers' positioning is very worrying. Not even when a player is isolated they leave the goal...this will lead to many many goals being scored. I'm watching Inter vs. Monaco, so far 5 goals have been scored and all of them could've easily been avoided if the keeper had closed the angle for a shot - because a keeper glued to the goal line covers less of the goal than a keeper who takes a few steps forward to come closer to the striker (goalkeeping 101, really).
- the gameplay is more often than not an end-to-end fast-paced no-midfield experience, which is not news at all and it's not a necessarily bad thing, if end-to-end ping-pong is your cup of tea (mine's not). The thing is, this game shines a lot more when whoever's playing it decides to take a more realistic approach to it - build-up game, ponder-your-options-before-you-perform-any-action, not-abuse-the-sprint-button-all-the-time...-; but the game itself doesn't encourage to play like this, or better yet, there's no advantage for the player to play realistically, as you can do more damage to the opponent using an arcady approach. This explains why even on the PESLeague finals the supposedly best PES players take advantage of the game's engine with their 100% counter-attacking, tiki-taka-on-steroids-and-adderall approach. Just like in real life, you play the game as the game comes, and in real-life such an offensive "strategy" would be easily shut down. In PES, it's a guaranteed winning plan if you become skilled enough at what the game encourages you to do.
- the vast majority of the people I've seen playing the game don't really do a good service on making this game shine. I have to be brutally honest about it really. When I see a guy attempting to dribble out the opponent's midfielders with fancy stylish moves with freakin' N'Golo Kanté, leaving defensive positions running like headless chickens, sprinting all the time...I mean, you're trying to sell the game, and this just makes it look bad. I want to see a football game with substance and playing it like you play NHL18 just puts me off.
Kudos for the guy playing with Palmeiras in a Palmeiras vs Flamengo I watched, who despite not being supremely skilled at it, tried to play manual. It slowed down the pace of the game, showed a few mishit/overhit passes which led to more unpredictability, and forced him to carefully build-up the play = more realism. Even if, again, there's no incentive to play like that.
- on the issue of fouls, or rather lack-there-of: the main issue here is that there's not even an opportunity for a foul to occur. For a foul to happen, there needs to be an actual physical contact. When your entire offense plan is 1st touch passing all over the pitch while running at full speed to get away from the defenders -> shot on goal, how the hell can I foul this guy? It doesn't matter if the defender is CPU or not: unless you're fouling on purpose (when defending) or patiently waiting for a foul to happen (when on offense), the opportunity for a foul simply won't exist most of the time.

Overall, the biggest compliment I can make right now is that the game looks...fun. The problem is, games like this are the "dumb hot girls" of gaming: exciting to handle at first, but as there's not a lot of substance to it, one gets bored too quickly. Which must be the purpose of the developers after all, because if you get too attached to PES2019 you'd be risking not being interested in getting PES2020, and so on. Mediocrity pays off, as there's always stuff to be fixed on the next iteration of the game.

PS: If I was a football game developer, I'd be the sickest shitlord around. First thing I'd do: whenever you pressed the R1 button to sprint, the camera would start to shake. The longer you kept it pressed, the more it'd shake.
After several episodes of gamers puking their neat little gaming chairs, sometimes even live on youtube and twitch, you'd bet we'd have Pavlov-conditioned everyone to play football more like football and less like hockey in about a week or so.
 
miguelfcp said:
- the vast majority of the people I've seen playing the game don't really do a good service on making this game shine. I have to be brutally honest about it really. When I see a guy attempting to dribble out the opponent's midfielders with fancy stylish moves with freakin' N'Golo Kanté, leaving defensive positions running like headless chickens, sprinting all the time...I mean, you're trying to sell the game, and this just makes it look bad. I want to see a football game with substance and playing it like you play NHL18 just puts me off.
Kudos for the guy playing with Palmeiras in a Palmeiras vs Flamengo I watched, who despite not being supremely skilled at it, tried to play manual. It slowed down the pace of the game, showed a few mishit/overhit passes which led to more unpredictability, and forced him to carefully build-up the play = more realism. Even if, again, there's no incentive to play like that.
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Totally agree with that. The defensive part is also totally neglected, not as much tackle double X tap, sliding tackle, manual replacing in defense, using the def line with the d-pad etc.
There's every features needed to defend well, but nobody seems to use it well, always pressing or double pressing.
If you can't even place your player, manage to cut the lines by yourselve, using tactics... That could be one of the reason the game is looking like end-to-end, i don't mean that's the only reason of course, but look at how the people defends too, in the midfield especially.
 
SJ321 said:
I We need a link between long time PES fans and Konami who will actually speak up for us and tell them what we want.
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Sad thing is that should have been Adam. He literally broke an embargo for PES 2013 to tell us about the magic boots thing and get enough feedback gathered to make them change it via a patch. Since he's gone there, all that fight for the community has completely withered away to the point where anyone without his history could do this job.

Imagine that magic boots thing was happening this year. Who would have enough input in the community to force Konami to change it? Nobody.
 
miguelfcp said:
Few things to add after watching a few gameplay videos:
- Goalkeepers' positioning is very worrying. Not even when a player is isolated they leave the goal...this will lead to many many goals being scored. I'm watching Inter vs. Monaco, so far 5 goals have been scored and all of them could've easily been avoided if the keeper had closed the angle for a shot - because a keeper glued to the goal line covers less of the goal than a keeper who takes a few steps forward to come closer to the striker (goalkeeping 101, really).
- the gameplay is more often than not an end-to-end fast-paced no-midfield experience, which is not news at all and it's not a necessarily bad thing, if end-to-end ping-pong is your cup of tea (mine's not). The thing is, this game shines a lot more when whoever's playing it decides to take a more realistic approach to it - build-up game, ponder-your-options-before-you-perform-any-action, not-abuse-the-sprint-button-all-the-time...-; but the game itself doesn't encourage to play like this, or better yet, there's no advantage for the player to play realistically, as you can do more damage to the opponent using an arcady approach. This explains why even on the PESLeague finals the supposedly best PES players take advantage of the game's engine with their 100% counter-attacking, tiki-taka-on-steroids-and-adderall approach. Just like in real life, you play the game as the game comes, and in real-life such an offensive "strategy" would be easily shut down. In PES, it's a guaranteed winning plan if you become skilled enough at what the game encourages you to do.
- the vast majority of the people I've seen playing the game don't really do a good service on making this game shine. I have to be brutally honest about it really. When I see a guy attempting to dribble out the opponent's midfielders with fancy stylish moves with freakin' N'Golo Kanté, leaving defensive positions running like headless chickens, sprinting all the time...I mean, you're trying to sell the game, and this just makes it look bad. I want to see a football game with substance and playing it like you play NHL18 just puts me off.
Kudos for the guy playing with Palmeiras in a Palmeiras vs Flamengo I watched, who despite not being supremely skilled at it, tried to play manual. It slowed down the pace of the game, showed a few mishit/overhit passes which led to more unpredictability, and forced him to carefully build-up the play = more realism. Even if, again, there's no incentive to play like that.
- on the issue of fouls, or rather lack-there-of: the main issue here is that there's not even an opportunity for a foul to occur. For a foul to happen, there needs to be an actual physical contact. When your entire offense plan is 1st touch passing all over the pitch while running at full speed to get away from the defenders -> shot on goal, how the hell can I foul this guy? It doesn't matter if the defender is CPU or not: unless you're fouling on purpose (when defending) or patiently waiting for a foul to happen (when on offense), the opportunity for a foul simply won't exist most of the time.

Overall, the biggest compliment I can make right now is that the game looks...fun. The problem is, games like this are the "dumb hot girls" of gaming: exciting to handle at first, but as there's not a lot of substance to it, one gets bored too quickly. Which must be the purpose of the developers after all, because if you get too attached to PES2019 you'd be risking not being interested in getting PES2020, and so on. Mediocrity pays off, as there's always stuff to be fixed on the next iteration of the game.

PS: If I was a football game developer, I'd be the sickest shitlord around. First thing I'd do: whenever you pressed the R1 button to sprint, the camera would start to shake. The longer you kept it pressed, the more it'd shake.
After several episodes of gamers puking their neat little gaming chairs, sometimes even live on youtube and twitch, you'd bet we'd have Pavlov-conditioned everyone to play football more like football and less like hockey in about a week or so.
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Stick it one of my previous posts! :) agree!!
But much better explained.
vialli82 said:
Totally agree with that. The defensive part is also totally neglected, not as much tackle double X tap, sliding tackle, manual replacing in defense, using the def line with the d-pad etc.
There's every features needed to defend well, but nobody seems to use it well, always pressing or double pressing.
If you can't even place your player, manage to cut the lines by yourselve, using tactics... That could be one of the reason the game is looking like end-to-end, i don't mean that's the only reason of course, but look at how the people defends too, in the midfield especially.
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Never saw “them” using d-pad! I do use that a lot. Set piece tactics I use a lot too. Therw are some options available that helps simulating the sport.

In comparison: if a racing game offers wall riding to win, a lot of users would use it. I don’t like those games. More into PC2, GTS, AC territory.
And yes. There is no incentive to play like all manual build up slow paced game. Only with my mind I can create a scenario where I am happy. PES just puts it on screen (through my fingers).
Beautiful little stories I have created in my mind over the years. :)
Love my soccer! :D
 
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