PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

[slamsoze]

I dont know why some of you like so much of dribbling on this game. The ball is too glued to the players foot. Theres no momentum on players moves and turns. You change direction hoping that your player tap the ball ahead a little bit, but it just doesnt happend. The ball stick to players foot even with a low skilled player. You have to press sprint button every time. Its impossible to wrong foot the CPU on top difficulty levels and footplanting is almost absent. Dribbling is floated as f... omho .

Ball control on PES 2018 is the best I ever see on football game. No touch drible is so realistic and intuitive. It dont need to you to perform combos or stuff. Footplanting is decent and animations are more authentic. You do can pass your marker but you cant dribble all the team.

I am on the same train as you about dribble-movement in 2018. Since the first 2019 game footage we saw last year in the promo period, i dissed so much 19's movement and footplanting, before i even played the game . BUT...
Do you know what kills 2018 completely for me? The absence of physicallity and body contacts. Every body-charge, collision is so like jellyfish, that kills me off, despite what you describe, the control without running and the changes in tempo/momentum by pressing or releasing R1, are some of the best in any footy game ever. But this bad contacts are directly from 1998.
If it had the physical game of 17 or even 19, i would brainless play it for the next 5 years .It seems they killed their game again.

 

[Danny Henry]

Hi @Danny Henry, all of this was on the PES 19 Demo, and better than PES 2018, I think.
I've made this video a couple of days ago to prove it:


But Konami removed it on the final game for no apparent reason.

Wow. Theres some nice moves on this video. Its been a while I dont play 2019. How is it now? I mean, after all the patches?

 

[amartingil]

Wow. Theres some nice moves on this video. Its been a while I dont play 2019. How is it now? I mean, after all the patches?

For me, compared to the demo is like another game, I can't play more than 2 games in a row to the final game.
But, the demo could be adictive only with 10 teams. I think Konami ruinned it.

 

[Ameppe]

I'm playing superstar 10 min games in PC. It's true that script appears sometimes. But the AI cheating level in final game is sadomasochism. In the demo has an acceptable level (without that the CPU never score). However in defense, demo AI don't make any cheat (no catch up bug, no magnet covering/perfect tackles) and has human behaviours, this makes attack really enjoyable.

Then, if you add to this, the ball freedom, the randoness, the pace, the weight, the ball control, the dribbling mechanics and some other features that the game has lost after Demo, and all the oldschool Pes fans wants to feel in a football game, the summary is that Demo was much better than final game. At least for me.

We only remember mistakes, is human. I didn't remember how the demo feels overall until I played it again a few days ago.

Even if in general it wasn't exactly obvious, that situation immediately reminded me of Pes 2018 (i believe it had the same cheating AI issues even if a bit less present) and considering that in Pes Exhibition AI is way less cheated and scripted compared to Competitions and especially Master League i thought there was something really wrong with it if in Exhibition mode there already was such unrealistic passing speed.

Problem is since Pes 2018 they put another difficulty level, Legend, but that completely unbalanced every other level starting from Professional. They still haven't balanced higher level difficulties.

 

[slamsoze]

Even if in general .........

..They still haven't balanced higher level difficulties.

Are they really trying to?
The imbalanced levels and the general bad AI, i assume they are like this, due to MyClub, cause when they create their AI, they dont have in mind you or me or whoever will play with his low rated, low TS ML team. They design so blatantly cheaty AI, having in mind to give challenge to MC people who will go with their 99TS,5* superstar rosters to do the vsCOM challenges, cups, friendly etc.
I mean it is built to serve a different genre, an online grinding game, but unfortunately the offline and "this" online modes share the same core.

Especially the last months, i keep thinking that it is time to divide the MyClub from PES. It can be an offline version, not obligatory annually, to save costs for the ML people, and an annual MyClub version like the PES LITE one, thst will serve the competitive people and "bring the money".

 

[Emroth]

Pes18 dribbling was indeed the best of the three.
But no physicality and fouls killed this game.

Dribbling in Pes17 is less "visible", yet after some time spent with that game it grows on you. You start "feeling" it, and speed burst are fantastic.

Pes19 is glued ball with least satisfying dribbling mechanisms of them 3. Probably one of the worst I've seen. The more you play it the more you see how "trapped" the ball is.

 

[Danny Henry]

I remember when I first saw that PES 2018 gameplay trailer, were Coutinho jinks without touching the ball then dribbles to the right and score I think; jesus this cant be gameplay! It looks so real, so authentic. Thats why to me 2018 was the PES of this gen. It just needed more tweaking.

Well, Im sorry for talking so much about PES 2018 before I get warned. I know this is not the right place.

Play on.

 

[ballsinwater]

I remember when I first saw that PES 2018 gameplay trailer, were Coutinho jinks without touching the ball then dribbles to the right and score I think; jesus this cant be gameplay! It looks so real, so authentic. Thats why to me 2018 was the PES of this gen. It just needed more tweaking.

Well, Im sorry for talking so much about PES 2018 before I get warned. I know this is not the right place.

Agreed, I love that body feint without touching the ball by ever so slightly moving the left stick one way then quickly and firmly in the opposite direction, very intuitive. It was introduced in PES 18, sadly PES 17 doesn’t have it.
My go to move, works a charm in 18 and 19

 

[amartingil]

Hi guys! Another Demo comp fresh from the oven:

The dribbling touches, the inertia, the balance, the ball freedom,... absolutely awesome.

@Emroth the fact is, it wasn't glued in the Demo, Imo it has the best dribbling for a while.

@Danny Henry, @ballsinwater I'love this move, look at the video, In Demo works like a charm.

 

[Alx1234]

Hi guys! Another Demo comp fresh from the oven:

The dribbling touches, the inertia, the balance, the ball freedom,... absolutely awesome.

@Emroth the fact is, it wasn't glued in the Demo, Imo it has the best dribbling for a while.

@Danny Henry, @ballsinwater I'love this move, look at the video, In Demo works like a charm.

do me a favour, please.

play a 30min exhibition match and tell us what you think (because I think you will be surprised)

 

[Dennis_87]

What difficult this was recorded?

I don't know but i guess for some goals it might not be on superstar because the gk reacted a bit slowly.
The thing is that you don't score very often from long shots and i would also want it to be a bit more frequent.
But not too frequent because that's also bad.For example in Fifa long finesse shots are way too op and 8 out of 10 are a goal.They were even forced to nerf it at some point because people were complaining that it's too op and everyone is spamming long shots all the time.
So i surely don't want Pes to have very succesfull long shots and just become another broken mechanic.
They just have to find the right balance so it will be a bit more possible than it is now but still not too possible and become op.They have to add more outcomes and possibilities because now it feels too restricted.
And a bit less superhuman goalkeepers with more realistic and human animations.
I don't know how to describe it correctly,but it feels like you're shooting to a 4-5 meter goal area and not to a 7 meter like it should be.It feels like there's not many different outcomes that could occur.
Fifa has this 7 meter goal area feel correct but it's a bit op there to score..
It just needs a proper balancing.I still can score some long screamers in Pes 19 some times and it looks and feels beautiful but it needs more outcomes and possibilities with different trajectories and areas in goal where you can score.

 

[Danny Henry]

I don't know how to describe it correctly,but it feels like you're shooting to a 4-5 meter goal area and not to a 7 meter like it should be.It feels like there's not many different outcomes that could occur.

I totally understand and agree with you! Im always saying this. Something seems off in long range shooting. You discribed perfectly.

 

[Dennis_87]

I totally understand and agree with you! Im always saying this. Something seems off in long range shooting. You discribed perfectly.

It's also because some gk animations and reactions are too op and ridiculous.
Especially that particular one when you shoot from a side and he jumps up and FORWARD! and catches the ball like it's nothing.Looks so unrealistic.No gk jumps diagonally forward to make a save in real life.It's impossible.
They really have to remove these ugly outdated animations and introduce fresh new realistic ones which make sense.

 

[chickenhawk]

do me a favour, please.

play a 30min exhibition match and tell us what you think (because I think you will be surprised)

On PES19 or PES19 Demo ? Is Demo still downloadable

 

[Alx1234]

On PES19 or PES19 Demo ? Is Demo still downloadable

interested to see if he feels the good stuff from the demo is in also in a 30min exh match on PES 19 full game.

not sure if demo still available but if it is its max 5 mins (full match) on console

 

[hitmanuk]

I've tried the 30 minute game out of curiosity and it does seem more balanced with the AI but only 2 games in. But what's happened to fouls the ref just isn't giving me any

 

[Alx1234]

I've tried the 30 minute game out of curiosity and it does seem more balanced with the AI but only 2 games in. But what's happened to fouls the ref just isn't giving me any

You will get them plus cards - plus I find that moves that draw CPU into fouls help e.g. keeping possession for a good time.

I'm only 6-7 games in. Yesterday I played S'hampton. It was 2-2. Elyounossi got a yellow - tried to get him sent off but couldn't.

30min matches are not perfect BUT there is a sense that that is down to the lack of my own skill (or a need to build up TS or skill cards) rather than the feeling that the CPU suddenly must score due to script.

[The same script in shorter matches may still be present but the point is it is far far less obvious and for me that makes this game what it was supposed to be.]

Obviously its early days but I haven't given up yet...that's good. maybe the killer will be when Messi transfers to West Brom or something.

A 30min match actually takes me about 50mins with tactics and subs etc. - seems worth it at the mo tho.

 

[amartingil]

do me a favour, please.

play a 30min exhibition match and tell us what you think (because I think you will be surprised)

Thanks for your interest in what i'm trying to show. But I think that the changes and features missing in the final game aren't related to the match duration.
The point is that Konami transformed a simulation game in arcade one just before the game relase. Thus the overall game mechanics got lost along the way.

More examples in this new comp:

Look at the amazing Cavani first touch or the Iniesta lovely throught ball that never will work in the final game, the river-boca ball freedom example...

I'm going to writte a Pro/Cons list (focusing on final game tweaks)

Pros

The Pace: This is the reason that makes me looks deeper into Demo. Is like playing -2 without losing input response. Your eyes can enjoy every detail because it happen in a reasonable speed.

Animations: Fluid, natural and organic. They run with perfect pace, having sense of weight. There are a lot of small linking animations removed in the final game. The colission animations display a lot more realistic with much more less stuned player moments.

Ball Control: The best ball control since the 360 degrees implementation. The ball isn't glued to player feets. It feels really like a separated entity. The input it's huge precise. You can control every ball touch with a great deeper mechanic. Huge differences depending on the player skill. (This mechanic has changed totally to arcade way in the final game.)

Weight: It has his presence without being annoying like Fifa. You have to take care about it. The inertia and realistic speed-up time are important. You can take advantage of it in the build up, dribbling , through balls,...taking playing decisions to win some space and time.

The Build-up: Your passing decisions and your football knowledge it's truly rewarded. You really feel you are trying to beat human defensive system. The off the ball is more smart and fluid. You will find pass options by natural way. The AI decide the better pass direction to evade player legs in PA1. You can do incredible through balls, breaking an entire line like knife through butter.

Dribbling and Shielding: With a lot of contextual ball touches like old PES and consequently of weight and ball control. The demo has the best dribbling mechanics for a while. The defenders will be afraid if you are facing them with Messi or Mbappe. You would see a great variety of out of balance animations if you fool the defenders. Not all the tackles make the players fall on the ground or be stuned. They will try to keep the balance and carry on the attack. The shilding works natural and it's usefull. You really feel you are trying to cover the ball.

Collisions: Without being great, they are perfectlly balanced, aren't annoying and don't cut the gameplay flow like in the final game.

Defense: Your teamates are helpfull. They try to anticipate, cut pass options, join to the pressure. The X tackle is less automatic and less overpowered.

Superstar level: It feels well balanced. The perfect mix between challenge and reward to make the game deeper and adictive. In defense specially, they have human behaviors. Like miss tackles, mark fails, try to anticipate. The reaction time is human. The scripting appears sometimes, but not at all like final game. The CPU changes the advanced plays continually.

Ball freedom: The ball feels like a separate entity with a lot realistic small bounces. Every small interaction is calculated in a realistic way. In the final game it's a lot more glued and has more script driven bounces.

Randoness: You put all of this things toguether and you feel everything can happen. Making you being more creative in the way you play and more reactive to the changes. this makes diferent every match.


Cons

Atacking AI: It's really stubborn trying to play by the wings.(This was solved in the final game)

Headers: Almost impossible to win a header inside the box with the shoot button. You can't score by this way. It's broken.(This was solved in the final game)

Goalkeeper: They are glued to the goal line. (This was solved in the final game)

Shoot variety: Not enought variety. (This wasn't solved in the final game)

 

[Alx1234]

Thanks for your interest in what i'm trying to show. But I think that the changes and features missing in the final game aren't related to the match duration.

Did you actually try the 30min, -2 speed match? For example, see if you can replicate examples of the Iniesta-Cavani scenario above.

[ If yes, ignore this point but I'm not clear from your post whether you did. ]

 

[amartingil]

Did you actually try the 30min, -2 speed match? For example, see if you can replicate examples of the Iniesta-Cavani scenario above.

[ If yes, ignore this point but I'm not clear from your post whether you did. ]

I didn't, sorry. But I've played hundreds games this season. Some of them 15 min. I've looked deeper into the game mechanics. Enought to know how limited it's in comparison with Demo.

My english level isn't very good. The videos are helpfull to empower my poor speech.
But they can't show how it feels.

I know that a lot of users haven't tried it or only remeber his fails. This happened to me.
I'm only trying to join adepts to the cause to make some noise, and maybe Konami hear and give us which we are all waiting for.

 

[hitmanuk]

The problem with the demo was the attacking AI that made it into retail. It was unplayable with the forwards in cable of dribbling or taking shots without passing wide first

 

[Emroth]

Dont know, maybe im missing something, but what is the point of all this demo talk?
To prove that Konami lures us with decent gameplay (while covering up the issues) and then once we give them money they change the game to suit pro players and myClub fanatics?
Coz if thats the point, then, well, we kinda knew this already..

 

[Turdi182]

Seems like that Asim dude is leaving Konami. At least thats how it looks if you watch his Twitter posts. I always thought that he was the completely wrong dude for that kind of job. Way to sensitive and takes everything personal.

 

[amartingil]

Dont know, maybe im missing something, but what is the point of all this demo talk?
To prove that Konami lures us with decent gameplay (while covering up the issues) and then once we give them money they change the game to suit pro players and myClub fanatics?
Coz if thats the point, then, well, we kinda knew this already..

Exactly! But Imo there aren't a Machiavellian strategy behind this. Maybe, the feeback about online games in themo wasn't good.

Then, Why not put a game type settings in the option menu? Or make this tweaks only in online/Myclub modes. If Konami let us this choice, it will make all of us satisfied.

We have to claim for it, or PES will transform into a slot machine.

 

[Lami]

Seems like that Asim dude is leaving Konami. At least thats how it looks if you watch his Twitter posts. I always thought that he was the completely wrong dude for that kind of job. Way to sensitive and takes everything personal.

Great if true. As long as he's not replaced by someone similar or worse.

 

[kamy100]

Seems like that Asim dude is leaving Konami. At least thats how it looks if you watch his Twitter posts. I always thought that he was the completely wrong dude for that kind of job. Way to sensitive and takes everything personal.

He has recently taken up learning Japanese, I don't think he is leaving Konami, more likely that he is going to join Adam in Japan.

 

[Alx1234]

I didn't, sorry. But I've played hundreds games this season. Some of them 15 min. I've looked deeper into the game mechanics. Enought to know how limited it's in comparison with Demo.

My english level isn't very good. The videos are helpfull to empower my poor speech.
But they can't show how it feels.

I know that a lot of users haven't tried it or only remeber his fails. This happened to me.
I'm only trying to join adepts to the cause to make some noise, and maybe Konami hear and give us which we are all waiting for.

????????????

as emroth has pointed out you are pointing out the obvious i.e. demo plays better than full game.

what i'm saying is :
1. in the past week I decided to try a 30min match and my opinion of the game has improved since doing this
2. is there anyone that thinks the same?

your recent enthusiastic posts make you a good candidate to fulfil point number 2

aaaaaaah whatever. got no time for this. i'm going to sleep.

 

[xicpanad]

This thing will always happen nowadays. They launch their new title every year, not because it´s finished, but because there´s a lot of fans waiting for it. Then they will tweak it to the bones to please the online comunity. To be fair, they delivered a good demo, but online makes a lot of pressure and they have to keep up. If they did a good/bad job tweaking it, that´s another story.

After getting very upset with 2019, I went to Fifa demo and I was surprised how good it looked. Installed the final game, played a couple matches, and uninstalled. It felt nothing like the demo. I guess it´s how it works now and it seems that this sport is dead for offline modes for the next couple years, sadly.

 

[hitmanuk]

????????????

as emroth has pointed out you are pointing out the obvious i.e. demo plays better than full game.

what i'm saying is :
1. in the past week I decided to try a 30min match and my opinion of the game has improved since doing this
2. is there anyone that thinks the same?

your recent enthusiastic posts make you a good candidate to fulfil point number 2

aaaaaaah whatever. got no time for this. i'm going to sleep.

yes after 3 games. I am assuming it's how the the games AI is coded. They look to get certain boots at points in the game depending on how it's panning out. By lengthening the game it makes these points longer apart allowing the AI to build up slower. That's my interpretation anyway. Problem for me is I don't have time for half hour games

 

[Emroth]

Problem for me is I don't have time for half hour games

Thats the thing. Im the same. I disagree with having to stretch ourselves and bend over backwards just to get some joy out of the game. Fuck that.

I used to play 10mins matches, bang couple of seasons and have a great time.
This year on Pes I "had to" increase my game time to 20mins (which apparently is still not enough), switch and learn to play on manual, change difficulty to Prof, and
squeeze all my players in their formations unnaturally deep just to get some build up from AI.
Still - I ended up buying 17 and going through the whole Option Files rigmarole again.
Dont have any will or interest to invest into this game anymore.

What happend with putting the disc on and just having a bit of fun, without trying to crack the fucking Enigma..?

Competition might be lacking in few areas, but at least there I can just focus on me and my team, without having to adjust my gamestyle to squeeze some imagination from AI..