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PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

3 player Co op would be a lot of fun online if there was an option to only play real life teams. I sometimes play with my brother and friend online and we often pick Liverpool which is a strong team to be fair but then we get matched up with some PSG MyClub garbage with Salah and Ronaldo and Griezman, etc, on board.
 
Emroth said:
Thats the thing. Im the same. I disagree with having to stretch ourselves and bend over backwards just to get some joy out of the game. Fuck that.

I used to play 10mins matches, bang couple of seasons and have a great time.
This year on Pes I "had to" increase my game time to 20mins (which apparently is still not enough), switch and learn to play on manual, change difficulty to Prof, and
squeeze all my players in their formations unnaturally deep just to get some build up from AI.
Still - I ended up buying 17 and going through the whole Option Files rigmarole again.
Dont have any will or interest to invest into this game anymore.

What happend with putting the disc on and just having a bit of fun, without trying to crack the fucking Enigma..?

Competition might be lacking in few areas, but at least there I can just focus on me and my team, without having to adjust my gamestyle to squeeze some imagination from AI..
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I suspect a minority of PES players will ever play a 30min match.

If PES has delivered a quality game in the form of a 30min match then we can either carry on hoping they will make shorter duration matches less scripted or we can just get on with playing what we have.

PES has been a 4-5 year journey. This is potentially the stop where I get off. Amen to that.

(I could catch the "we play 30min online matches" or the "who have you scouted that's good in ML" trains though)
 
amartingil said:
Thanks for your interest in what i'm trying to show. But I think that the changes and features missing in the final game aren't related to the match duration.
The point is that Konami transformed a simulation game in arcade one just before the game relase. Thus the overall game mechanics got lost along the way.

More examples in this new comp:

Look at the amazing Cavani first touch or the Iniesta lovely throught ball that never will work in the final game, the river-boca ball freedom example...

I'm going to writte a Pro/Cons list (focusing on final game tweaks)

Pros

The Pace: This is the reason that makes me looks deeper into Demo. Is like playing -2 without losing input response. Your eyes can enjoy every detail because it happen in a reasonable speed.

Animations: Fluid, natural and organic. They run with perfect pace, having sense of weight. There are a lot of small linking animations removed in the final game. The colission animations display a lot more realistic with much more less stuned player moments.

Ball Control: The best ball control since the 360 degrees implementation. The ball isn't glued to player feets. It feels really like a separated entity. The input it's huge precise. You can control every ball touch with a great deeper mechanic. Huge differences depending on the player skill. (This mechanic has changed totally to arcade way in the final game.)

Weight: It has his presence without being annoying like Fifa. You have to take care about it. The inertia and realistic speed-up time are important. You can take advantage of it in the build up, dribbling , through balls,...taking playing decisions to win some space and time.

The Build-up: Your passing decisions and your football knowledge it's truly rewarded. You really feel you are trying to beat human defensive system. The off the ball is more smart and fluid. You will find pass options by natural way. The AI decide the better pass direction to evade player legs in PA1. You can do incredible through balls, breaking an entire line like knife through butter.

Dribbling and Shielding: With a lot of contextual ball touches like old PES and consequently of weight and ball control. The demo has the best dribbling mechanics for a while. The defenders will be afraid if you are facing them with Messi or Mbappe. You would see a great variety of out of balance animations if you fool the defenders. Not all the tackles make the players fall on the ground or be stuned. They will try to keep the balance and carry on the attack. The shilding works natural and it's usefull. You really feel you are trying to cover the ball.

Collisions: Without being great, they are perfectlly balanced, aren't annoying and don't cut the gameplay flow like in the final game.

Defense: Your teamates are helpfull. They try to anticipate, cut pass options, join to the pressure. The X tackle is less automatic and less overpowered.

Superstar level: It feels well balanced. The perfect mix between challenge and reward to make the game deeper and adictive. In defense specially, they have human behaviors. Like miss tackles, mark fails, try to anticipate. The reaction time is human. The scripting appears sometimes, but not at all like final game. The CPU changes the advanced plays continually.

Ball freedom: The ball feels like a separate entity with a lot realistic small bounces. Every small interaction is calculated in a realistic way. In the final game it's a lot more glued and has more script driven bounces.

Randoness: You put all of this things toguether and you feel everything can happen. Making you being more creative in the way you play and more reactive to the changes. this makes diferent every match.


Cons

Atacking AI: It's really stubborn trying to play by the wings.(This was solved in the final game)

Headers: Almost impossible to win a header inside the box with the shoot button. You can't score by this way. It's broken.(This was solved in the final game)

Goalkeeper: They are glued to the goal line. (This was solved in the final game)

Shoot variety: Not enought variety. (This wasn't solved in the final game)
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Agree with all of the above. I play online only and I see the same thing in the demo (obviously I can't discuss AI issues, since my opponent is human). I mean, demo servers are offline now, but I did make a video and you can see a lot of these points on it.

Here's a similar post I wrote a couple months back:
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/posts/3349244/


.
 
vxcmplx said:
Agree with all of the above. I play online only and I see the same thing in the demo (obviously I can't discuss AI issues, since my opponent is human). I mean, demo servers are offline now, but I did make a video and you can see a lot of these points on it.

Here's a similar post I wrote a couple months back:
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/posts/3349244/
.
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Thanks for your support. We are in the same boat.

After viewing your old post video, I can deduce that online input lag could be the main reason for removing player weigh and rising the pace. The AI and ball physics scripts could be in realtion with MyClub cheating AI.

Then, if Konami doesn't invest in online servers, we are f****d.

We could have a chance on PES 2020. It seems that Konami is focusing on ML.
It should be noticed that offline users doesn't agree this arcade tweaks.
 
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amartingil said:
Thanks for your support. We are in the same boat.

After viewing your old post video, I can deduce that online input lag could be the main reason for removing player weigh and rising the pace. The AI and ball physics scripts could be in realtion with MyClub cheating AI.

Then, if Konami doesn't invest in online servers, we are f****d.

We could have a chance on PES 2020. It seems that Konami is focusing on ML.
It should be noticed that offline users doesn't agree this arcade tweaks.
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Regarding the part where you indicate Konami is focusing on ML: other than PR - talk from Konami, is there a source for this? (genuinely interested). As far as I'm concerned ML is dead in the water and is closer to disappearing than improving. But if there are indications pointing in the other direction I'd love to know!
 
koningfrikandel said:
Regarding the part where you indicate Konami is focusing on ML: other than PR - talk from Konami, is there a source for this? (genuinely interested). As far as I'm concerned ML is dead in the water and is closer to disappearing than improving. But if there are indications pointing in the other direction I'd love to know!
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One user from Spanish Pes forum who works on Spanish League Stats database/Live updates posted about it.
He said Konami had send to him some info about the PES 2020 features.

@Alx1234 I tried play 30 min game in the final game. Feels a little bit more slow, maybe because the accuracy ratio has adapted to the time of the match. Otherwise, I'm stubborn, I know it, but Demo feels huge better. All runs like a Swiss watch.

Now I'm enjoying it capturing Demo details like this, waitting for a miracle in form of update or PES 2020.
 
konami strikes again.​
max match time setting on an online friendly is 15mins.
seems the only way to have a good 30min PvP game is local couch play.
​
 
giphy.gif

tracksuit power!
 
Had my first league game on 30 minds top player full manual

Liverpool (me) 1 - Huddersfield 1

To be fair I really enjoyed it and the 30 mins really make a difference

Key observations
Much more real match like with AI build up
Changing tactics feels more worth while as you have time to see the impact more
Same with defense levels time to sit back and then push up later
Feels far less end to end
Can go back to manual as you have time to rectify mistakes

What needs work still
Fouls are still no where near enough
AI still needs more shooting variation

All in all its a much better experience
 
Emroth said:
Thats the thing. Im the same. I disagree with having to stretch ourselves and bend over backwards just to get some joy out of the game. Fuck that.

I used to play 10mins matches, bang couple of seasons and have a great time.
This year on Pes I "had to" increase my game time to 20mins (which apparently is still not enough), switch and learn to play on manual, change difficulty to Prof, and
squeeze all my players in their formations unnaturally deep just to get some build up from AI.
Still - I ended up buying 17 and going through the whole Option Files rigmarole again.
Dont have any will or interest to invest into this game anymore.

What happend with putting the disc on and just having a bit of fun, without trying to crack the fucking Enigma..?

Competition might be lacking in few areas, but at least there I can just focus on me and my team, without having to adjust my gamestyle to squeeze some imagination from AI..
Click to expand...

All behind this.

From ISS Pro to PES6 we had 10 years of immersive, varied and often thrilling football gameplay from 10 minute matches. Now, older and with much less time on my hands, I'm to tinker and slider my way through £100 worth of FIFA and PES on a PS4 to get that again?

I want Konami to do all the work, for me to play.
 
I've made a few tests between Demo and Final Game, with the same teams and tactics, in exhibition mode,
in my effort to analize the reasons that make atacking a lot more natural and exciting in Demo.

I'm starting to think that there're not so much diferencies about the AI defense routines, reaction times,...

Then, I think that after cutting off the players weight/inertia and removing all the animations of players unbalanced and defensors fooled, the AI defense only depends on player reaction time and here starts the feeling you're atacking 11 bots. Like the only way to pass them is do things more quickly.

Maybe the defense AI was developed taking sense of the weight system. Consequently, after Konami removed it, the scripted defense feeling increases a lot.

If you add to this, that the ball control is less precise/worsened. the attacking mechanics starts to feel broken.

Edit: Also the players acceleration is increased in the final game. This makes the AI go to pressure quickly or recover the position before you get any advantage of your move. The relation between ball speed and player speed is higher in demo.
 
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saintric said:
anyone ever had this bug wtf? playing as AZ the cpu go in to my area and i have 2 goalkeepers? they did well lol kept a clean sheet on superstar even took turns taking goal kicks

20190508204721-1.jpg

20190508204731-1.jpg
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Could be a new patch to counter AI clinical finishing... :LOL:
 
saintric said:
anyone ever had this bug wtf? playing as AZ the cpu go in to my area and i have 2 goalkeepers? they did well lol kept a clean sheet on superstar even took turns taking goal kicks

20190508204721-1.jpg

20190508204731-1.jpg
Click to expand...
LMAO.
 
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Konami just released their financial results. For the fifth consecutive year they had growth, with their best year ever financially, with two consecutive years of record profit.

They pointed again that a lot of of their earnings come from Myclub microtransactions and mobile games.

Screenshot_20190509-1619522.png


I really don't want people to say they don't have money to invest in Pes. Konami financially is one of the best videogame company in Japan.
 
Ameppe said:
Screenshot_20190509-1619522.png


I really don't want people to say they don't have money to invest in Pes. Konami financially is one of the best videogame company in Japan.
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They've achieved this by having a terrible year (2014) and, as a result, cutting a ton of spend (pretty much axing anything non-MGS/PES) and cutting their teams down to a bare minimum (you only need small teams to make mobile games, and/or to keep PES going with minimal changes).

They didn't make all that money by spending it - and for as long as the games still sell (and their microtransactions - there are enough people who need to play a football game online and hate FIFA that myClub will last forever)... They'll continue not-spending it.

2014 may have been a terrible year because, in their eyes, they spent too much on development / the size of their teams. Of course, they could invest more into PES now - but if they know they'll always be second to FIFA then... Why spend?

It's all about your return-on-investment (ROI). You can have a bigger team and get more sales, and the ROI might be (for example) 10. In other words, you make 10x more than you've spent. If you keep a barebones team and launch the game to the same amount of sales (no increase), your ROI might be 20.
 
The fact that they'll always be second to Fifa doesn't mean that they can't earn more profits by spending a little more first.
How much money do they pay to each individual of their team?Millions?I don't think so.
They may have good salaries but nothing that a multi million company couldn't afford and expand the team a bit.
It's not that they're signing Ronaldo lol.
I think that they need for sure to make the team a little bigger so we'll have a more complete product and in this way they'll probably have even more profit from sales etc.Maybe even a little bit of expanding will be enough.It's not that they have to hire 500 more people.

One thing is for sure.They make the vast majority of their profit from microtransactions so they'll stick to that as their main priority.And i don't think that someone could blame them for that.They're a company afterall and this is the era we live now where online gaming is the trend.They can't do nothing about it but follow it if they want to survive.
But if they're smart enough they'll invest a little more in offline also so they can gain extra profit from there because there is still an offline part of gamers and they know it.
I think offline will get some love in Pes 20.Even if they don't add much more changes in ML but introduce some minimal critical improvements like real budgets and contracts,a bit more realistic transfers,missing second divisions back in the game(which i think that 99% it will happen),and most of all a decent enough AI,then people will play it even more and they'll gain even more profit and even new customers.
 
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Dennis_87 said:
I think offline will get some love in Pes 20.Even if they don't add much more changes in ML but introduce some minimal critical improvements like real budgets and contracts,a bit more realistic transfers,missing second divisions back in the game(which i think that 99% it will happen),and most of all a decent enough AI,then people will play it even more and they'll gain even more profit and even new customers.
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What they should do, is to spend one year on expanding and improving edit options. Give people tools to do what they want and then just focus on whatever they want to focus on. One year spent on creating proper freedom for people would give them so much and saved so much money in a long run.
- Editable leagues, where you can add D2, even D3 to the league you play, plenty of fake leagues to give people freedom to customise it whichever way they want.
- Stadium creator with a lot of slots for stadiums.
- logo creator, so people on Xbox could finally make proper kits
- stadium customisation, with chants, flags, proper banners
- balls editor
- unlock all stadiums for all leagues
- universal stat editor, so people could do one tweak and apply to all players in the game
- injury frequency, transfers frequency, stamina depletion level...
- more camera options

If they gave people tools to customise the game properly, they could forget about offline for the next couple of years. People would be happy out. They need to realise that editing was/is and will be their strongest asset.

Even if they are afraid that people will stop buying it yearly and just stick to one version and keep editing it - thats bullcrap. Online players will keep buying new version and always play new version.
Only the likes of us, grumpy old pes fans, might stick to one version that suits them most. But at least that would shut us up for a while and there would be much less grumpyness around.
 
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