Hatrickhero
Championship
- 8 March 2021
so u think fifa 19 is better than 16?
PES 2018 vs 2019 vs 2020 vs 2021?
- Thread starter MadbaLL
- Start date
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
absolutely not, 16 is better than 19 for me
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
nope, but ive played PES 18 with a similar mod, so i can imagine it being really good with that mod
TheWolf
Premier League
So it's been some months and as eFootball has evolved at the speed of the slug (unchanged in 4 million years) I'm sure a lot of us have been revisiting the titles in rotation again to try and find some peace/balance to enjoy themselves for a bit before rotating to another title. Personally, I've settled with PES 2019 because for it's defensive naivity on harder levels, it still all round is a better looking, more reactive, PES-feel to it than everything that came after. I can't deal with the 20/21 saturated graphics and predictable passing routes and shots, even on FUMA, not to mention scoring free kicks is like taking oil from Venezuala's neighbor - easy 
Kenaykix
League 2
- 4 May 2020
We have the same thought... what is your control setup like? Do you play in full manual?
lastbreath
League 2
- 11 December 2018
We? Are there many of you? )
cleanslate
Championship
- 27 October 2020
- FC Barcelona
Exactly this.
PES 2018 is like a slightly failed throwback to PES 2013 whilst continuing parts of 2017, and its actually decent (and I stand by my rankings here from 2 years ago - time flies) as a game. PES 2019 however I think the absolute best on the ball out of all of 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. It has this absolutely great feel on the ball on a pass and the grass at least looked somewhat green in 2019. But Sadly its the worst off the ball.
The flaw with 2019 every time I played it is... You can just notice the same sort of goal every time. Well 2 / 4 times (I conceded 4 goals to Liverpool and I noticed 2 goals were the exact same - now is that due to my mistakes or just the AI...?) usually... Off the ball it feels so archaic and clumsy, but its predictable and thats what sucks the fun out of it. The Defensive AI , I don't really remember but I think it was very patterned too? I think the predictability of 2019 is really what killed the game.
PES 2020 Demo is very heavy and honestly probably the most 'realistic' PES we got, now I never got to play the entire full game, so I can base off my experience with the demo and I must say it was a challenge but a fun one. The feel on the Ball was similar to 2019 but the passing and movement was so much more.. real-life like.
2021, as I said and everyone knows. Was good for about 3 months or the turn of the year - and then dissolved itself with the Patches.
TheWolf
Premier League
I think the CPU in 19 tries to exploit the easiest way to attack you which in most games is down the flanks and a low cross but 19 will keep that tactic if you don't counter it. I noticed that pattern with 19 more than the other titles but I simply adjusted my tactics to recognize that build up and thwart it early so I rarely concede that type of goal now, maybe 1 every 3 games if that. The CPU is capable of some great build up and variety but will go the easiest route if you let it or fall for the same patterns without changing anything.
Kenaykix
League 2
- 4 May 2020
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Kenaykix
League 2
- 4 May 2020
I'm sorry! spelling mistake
Kenaykix
League 2
- 4 May 2020
In my case I am looking for a game that is not as frustrating as the AI of Pes 21 and Pes 19 (I am a complete manual player) edit. I don't like gameplay mods
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
We all consider the PS2 days of pes to be the benchmark of football gaming.
But in hindsight the pes 17-21 gen is pretty solid as well (and the Xbox 360 gen too).
Funny that i like PES 17/18/20/21 when I didn't like them back then (17 being the only one).
Getting to grips with 20 and 21 and I like them.
Funny thing this
But in hindsight the pes 17-21 gen is pretty solid as well (and the Xbox 360 gen too).
Funny that i like PES 17/18/20/21 when I didn't like them back then (17 being the only one).
Getting to grips with 20 and 21 and I like them.
Funny thing this
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I still think 15 onwards from PES was the beginning of the rigidity. We slowly lost the natural and organic feeling of the game and it was replaced with rigid spacing, behaviour and mechanics. 2020 probably being the height of it. 2021 not far behind…
It can still play a decent game at times, but I think this was the biggest negative of the Fox engine. Context and individuality started to matter a lot less, and zones and instructions started to matter too much in my opinion.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
You're right, I'm just reviewing them now Vs when they came out, and think they're better now than then.
Still have a soft spot for the middle gen (PES 11->14) think they are quite underrated.
I'm enjoying the last gen of games a bit now, I can pop in and play a few games on my pes 20/21 and not feel that disappointed, at least vs back when.
Feel a bit sad that it stopped being PES, especially since FIFA has gone down the toilettet
For me, PES21 is still the best soccer game ever. The look, the feel on the ball, the physics. But unfortunately only if I haven't played it for long enough.
As soon as I play it again, the old repetitive boredom returns after a short time. And the more time passes, the longer the phases in which I don't play it anymore and the shorter the time in which I get bored again.
The same now applies to PES 17/18/19. Maybe I'm just becoming more and more "casual", but somehow I find it difficult to go back to the old games for a longer period of time.
As soon as I play it again, the old repetitive boredom returns after a short time. And the more time passes, the longer the phases in which I don't play it anymore and the shorter the time in which I get bored again.
The same now applies to PES 17/18/19. Maybe I'm just becoming more and more "casual", but somehow I find it difficult to go back to the old games for a longer period of time.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Its tough to go all in these days, pes 20/21 is good enough for 5-6 ML games a week for me.
Anymore and it gets stale
I really can't understand how many considers physics good on Pes2021 ( but i can say the same for all Pes on Fox engine).
I mean... maybe the ball physics regarding passing LOOKS good,but the ball is not free at all. The script is heavy even on passes. I can easly pass the ball from my Cb to my Striker, straight in the middle, without any opponent able to intercept It, instead your players miss even the easiest pass when you are near the final third of the field.
If we go to analyze the shooting,ball physics is awful. All shots on target, with every player,laser guided..no dirty shots, no deflections. Shooting mechanics are just dull and shallow.
Even the physics collisions between players is a joke: you can't fight for possession. Your player is in balance and can keep possession or just lose the balance and can't react and fight back for the ball..i don't know if i explained good what i mean,but body balance seems On/off in mostly of situations.
I think many confuse physics with animation. Fox engine has really good animation. All is good to look at,very cosmetic at first glance but is so dull and shallow to play. You have not really any kind of freedom on these games.
And last but not for importance: player's individuality just don't exist.
I mean... maybe the ball physics regarding passing LOOKS good,but the ball is not free at all. The script is heavy even on passes. I can easly pass the ball from my Cb to my Striker, straight in the middle, without any opponent able to intercept It, instead your players miss even the easiest pass when you are near the final third of the field.
If we go to analyze the shooting,ball physics is awful. All shots on target, with every player,laser guided..no dirty shots, no deflections. Shooting mechanics are just dull and shallow.
Even the physics collisions between players is a joke: you can't fight for possession. Your player is in balance and can keep possession or just lose the balance and can't react and fight back for the ball..i don't know if i explained good what i mean,but body balance seems On/off in mostly of situations.
I think many confuse physics with animation. Fox engine has really good animation. All is good to look at,very cosmetic at first glance but is so dull and shallow to play. You have not really any kind of freedom on these games.
And last but not for importance: player's individuality just don't exist.
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Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Well said!
I want go deeper with body collisions on/off balance. So i just fired up pes2021 and start a random exhibition's match. I catched some physics challenges to show what i mean. In my opinion,but i can be wrong, the game is designed that when the opponent touch the ball you MUST lose your balance. No matter all the variabiles that could be in the situation.
This is the best one
This one in my opinion Is wrong too,with my player that stopped to run and fight back in a too heavy way
This was an old one on pes2020
Oh and an extra clip just for show how bad shooting physics could be:
This is the best one
This one in my opinion Is wrong too,with my player that stopped to run and fight back in a too heavy way
This was an old one on pes2020
Oh and an extra clip just for show how bad shooting physics could be:
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lastbreath
League 2
- 11 December 2018
Very nice observation! That's why I consider PES21 too clunky in comparison with PES17-19.
My personal experience is a bit different. I've never had any greater issue passing the ball in the final third than with anywhere else on the pitch. The reason passing is so easy everywhere else is because the AI has no idea what defensive positioning is. The biggest problem the last 4 or say games has been a complete lack of midfield because of the lack of defensive positioning with the AI.
Shooting has always been weird in this game. Though they haven't been laser guided in my experience with it. I have seen a decent amount of variation with shooting. The problem is the foundation of their shooting mechanics just isn't good.
The vast majority of contests for the ball are completely binary; clear winner and loser. It's a really really poor representation of tackling and 50-50s. It's almost as if 2 animations can't play out at the same time. I think it's the reason that almost every time a player challenges for the ball, the ball carrier loses balance or falls to the ground. For whatever reason Konami never created many animations and a trigger for animations where the ball carrier maintain's their balance and keeps the ball. And the reason I believe this is because, if player doesn't fall or lose balance, they are stun locked for a split second when a defender challenges for the ball. It's something that has been one of the most frustrating things about PES; defender sticks out leg, defender touches ball, no matter what you do, you lose the ball because you temporarily lose control of the player who just had the ball.
Man I wouldn't go that far. The animations in the game really aren't that good. They are clunky and awkward. The ball is floaty in the air at times as are keepers when diving. At times it's almost like you're sprinting in place which is really awkward looking.
I agree. I've written essay after essay on how I feel about the AI in this game. Attackers attack the same. Defenders defend the same. Playing style doesn't have enough of an impact imo. Neither do traits of the COM playing styles. And there aren't anywhere enough COM playing styles. Not to mentioned the overall passive nature of the AI, makes playing against it just not really fun.
2 more things. First, on scripting, I don't really like that word because 1, I've noticed lots of people just use it any time things aren't going their way and 2, more often than not there's an explanation for why things are going wrong and the explanation is the game just isn't very well made lol.
Secondly, people talk a lot about physics in sports games and while yeah physics has a role in these games but I think the most important thing is having an insane amount of good and varied animations, having quality logic to trigger said animations when they should, quality locomotion, and good mechanics that make the best of said animations and locomotion.
If PES had a ton more varied animations, we wouldn't be having this conversation about physics.
Secondly, people talk a lot about physics in sports games and while yeah physics has a role in these games but I think the most important thing is having an insane amount of good and varied animations, having quality logic to trigger said animations when they should, quality locomotion, and good mechanics that make the best of said animations and locomotion.
If PES had a ton more varied animations, we wouldn't be having this conversation about physics.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Still think PES 20 and 21 would feel a lot better if they'd kept PES 18-19 dribbling instead of the system they got now.
Doesn't feel a bit organic Vs the older games
Doesn't feel a bit organic Vs the older games
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Sure is great on both 18 and 19, to bad ai is horrible on 19, best game on the ball for sure
SP83
League 1
- 9 October 2012
Funny how PES19 has come up.
Over the last few weeks I've literally put good hours into a fair few footy games.
I've tried FIFA 15, 16 & 19 and PES 17, 18, 19 & 21.
I've finally decided to start a ML on PES19 as my footy fix.
It just has some of the magic of 17 & 18 while having some of the newer additions like training, realistic wages/transfers etc...
I've played a lot of friendlies on it and I'm not finding it easy. I can dominate possession but playing FUMA, scoring is a challenge.
I did enjoy FIFA 16 but it's let down by the fact tactics don't seem to matter (I love having 2 or 3 different tactics depending on who I play) and also, when you check the league tables, if you check a week later, they are totally different which is ridiculous.
I love PES 21 but I miss the challenge mode in ML. Having that chance of getting the boot if you underperform really adds another dimension to the mode.
Over the last few weeks I've literally put good hours into a fair few footy games.
I've tried FIFA 15, 16 & 19 and PES 17, 18, 19 & 21.
I've finally decided to start a ML on PES19 as my footy fix.
It just has some of the magic of 17 & 18 while having some of the newer additions like training, realistic wages/transfers etc...
I've played a lot of friendlies on it and I'm not finding it easy. I can dominate possession but playing FUMA, scoring is a challenge.
I did enjoy FIFA 16 but it's let down by the fact tactics don't seem to matter (I love having 2 or 3 different tactics depending on who I play) and also, when you check the league tables, if you check a week later, they are totally different which is ridiculous.
I love PES 21 but I miss the challenge mode in ML. Having that chance of getting the boot if you underperform really adds another dimension to the mode.
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Hope you enjoy it, done the same in the past, played a few friendlies on pes 19 decided on a ML then the ugly ai pops up.
Though i had a few good seasons on league mode on it (no TS there) and had fun
SP83
League 1
- 9 October 2012
I'm up for a bit of ugly AI, might be able to score a few goals then 😂
rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Good luck buddy, hope you have fun!
slamsoze
International
- 28 September 2010
I know it doesn't matter, since you are in a total exploration mode, but just for the record, Challenge Mode is the default mode in ML in PES 2020 and 2021.
The only difference is, the club boss is a little bit more lenient. Or the boss was more sharp strict in 2018 & 2019. Depends on the point of view. 😁