PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

flokiman said:
If all players are the same, then myclub etc has no point of existence.
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But that is exactly the point of all players being much the same – to make the game work online in the way that online players have come to expect. Online players want football games to handle with as near to 1:1 'responsiveness' [puke] as possible. Individuality as it used to exist in PES meant that some players, maybe even most players, were slow to turn and slow to move and sluggish in all sorts of ways that they're simply not allowed to be anymore, because online comes first. We won't see a proper PES again until online is a whole separate game.

ETA: yes, onliners, I know the game isn't responsive enough for you with all the lag and connections problems etc My point is that Konami is trying to make a game that works under those conditions, which means the end-goal is to make it so that there is a perfect 1:1 correspondence between your input and the on-screen action. This means all players being much the same, of course, so it'll be a somewhat Pyrrhic victory for you when it comes. By then us single-players will be playing pre-online PES exclusively and enjoying the good old days all over again...
 
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Deco said:
Wasn't this experiment done before in one of the recent games?
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I've made the experiment with chrono, using the d-pad for having a real straight line on PES 2014 and 2015 and those tested attributes (Dribbling/Speed/Explosive Power/Height/Weight especially) having an effect, a big effect.
For example, Dribbling maked the player touching the ball much more. Speed making player faster...
But/and i was special/a player with high dribbling, because of the amount of touches he makes to the ball, because it obligated him to slowing down a little the pace at every touches. That wasn't abnormal at all.

Etc. with Height/weight having a huge impact. A tall player made huge steps and his touches was longer than a smaller player, pushing the ball more far.
 
For the online money making modes I'd understand the stats not being effective as the game is always rubber banded to make people spend more money.

But offline it should be sacred and balanced really, It's an essential feature to create beautiful football instead of robotic one dimensional action.
 
nicetoknwyou said:
Conslusion, player's stats editor is broke.

Coz I was playing a LOT and for example Lamela , Kane or Wanyama are three dififerent things - joystick in hands -
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I think like you, it's not the in-game stats which doesn't have any effect, it's probably the in-game editor.
Needs to made some tests with "reals" players approximatively similar except one or two stats, Speed at first...
 
shez said:
For the online money making modes I'd understand the stats not being effective as the game is always rubber banded to make people spend more money.

But offline it should be sacred and balanced really, It's an essential feature to create beautiful football instead of robotic one dimensional action.
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Which game was that in your opinion,a balanced offline mode/gameplay?
I haven't got a clue ?
If you would pick any one?
I'd say you have to go back ages,to when online revenue was non existing?
Could be wrong
 
I'm a bit skeptic about players playing all the same in actual modalities tho.. this video may be a flaw of the editor-created players.. or same players reacting strangely in a non-opponents environment.. honestly pad in hand, whatever is an exhibition or a cup, I see a huge difference between my players in terms of speed, reaction time and ball control, and I'm not talking about superstars..

Of course some stats like passing are broken.. or even shooting.. no wonder, they have all those different options for shooting and passing, and most of all that damn manual.. that it's the reason it's IMPOSSIBLE to program a decent SEMI influenced by players stats the way it was in Pes 5 or 6, or in Pes 2011, the best shooting system a soccer game ever had, before this full manual mania took over.. most of you wanted it, well that's the price to pay, to give you full control to the player passing or shooting his stats must be flattened.

That said, to even suggest that I take Manchester City, and the players are the fucking same as an overall 60 chinese team.. just no, c'mon.
 
flokiman said:
I think since pes 2014, (new engine) stats had little impact on players. But this year...all players are the same.
And thats A SHAME.
I tried to compare players with 99 ovrl and 1 ovrl in PES 2011 and the difference is HUUGE!
Just for spinting the fast player is 5 seconds faster!
Konami HAS to short it out, at least next year.
If all players are the same, then myclub etc has no point of existence.
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I don't know about that ..I thought completely the opposite. This year there are certain players you like to have the ball u can tell the difference in their speed, dribbling, passing etc. I did not have this feeling in the recent versions
 
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rockstrongo said:
Which game was that in your opinion,a balanced offline mode/gameplay?
I haven't got a clue ?
If you would pick any one?
I'd say you have to go back ages,to when online revenue was non existing?
Could be wrong
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The old PES 5-6 , PES 2013 was good as well in this aspect. (Check out Matt10 videos on PES 5)

Some games out of the box were a mess, But the patches made them very playable and it took time, Fifa 12-13 had some very good gameplay patches.

But again it's a matter of tastes, And yes you are right once the money making was possible the ship has sailed and it was all about online.

I tried playing FUT and MLO with full manual controls, It was hard to win because everybody else was laser guiding their balls and my passes and shots weren't really full manual at all. Remember we couldn't kick the ball to the touchline on PES last year or two lol
 
I also feels the player have more individuality, impact than it have on PES 2014... And less "catchup bug" thing, but when a player is with the ball that's logic than he's getting slower.

That's a very strange situation. Thanks for posting this BTW

If someone could made a test with real players (non edited) on training mode, or even with very low difficulty on exhibition mode... I'm currently editing (real names for Brasileirao + Fake Nt) so no time for this
But whatever, we need to post this on every official twitter PES account.
 
All this talk about stats not making a difference.

Remember the PES5 intro? It had the stats names in the video.


It shows that stats were important to Konami back then.

I think nowadays what separates players and making some feel different is the 'Skill Cards' not the stats. In ML, correct me if I'm wrong, people tend to buy players with certain 'Skill Cards' rather than stats.

Despite all the negativity I am downloading it now.
 
vialli82 said:
I also feels the player have more individuality, impact than it have on PES 2014... And less "catchup bug" thing, but when a player is with the ball that's logic than he's getting slower.

That's a very strange situation. Thanks for posting this BTW

If someone could made a test with real players (non edited) on training mode, or even with very low difficulty on exhibition mode... I'm currently editing (real names for Brasileirao + Fake Nt) so no time for this
But whatever, we need to post this on every official twitter PES account.
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Tested with original barcelona.
Terstegen VS messi.
The same results. Same speed, same acceleration, same turning angle, the same Shooting.
 
Someone should test creating 2 players but using a base from a real player.

I want to make my own team from scratch but using this base so I can get the feeling I got their movements and style copying them. I did this on 2017 and it was noticeable :-)
 
Madmac79 said:
You mean you tested in training? Then something must be broke with it in particular. There is just no way Messi plays like the others in an actual match.
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Yes in training. I don't think that in training the rules are different.
This was the reason made me tested the stats.
I was playing with a random asian team and then with barcelona and noticed nearly no difference...
 
shez said:
The old PES 5-6 , PES 2013 was good as well in this aspect. (Check out Matt10 videos on PES 5)

Some games out of the box were a mess, But the patches made them very playable and it took time, Fifa 12-13 had some very good gameplay patches.

But again it's a matter of tastes, And yes you are right once the money making was possible the ship has sailed and it was all about online.

I tried playing FUT and MLO with full manual controls, It was hard to win because everybody else was laser guiding their balls and my passes and shots weren't really full manual at all. Remember we couldn't kick the ball to the touchline on PES last year or two lol
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I think the more money being made online the worse games we will see.
Think the game Vs FUT money making is about double revenue
And it's scary,cause all we will have left are retarded YouTube's
 
flokiman said:
Yes in training. I don't think that in training the rules are different.
This was the reason made me tested the stats.
I was playing with a random asian team and then with barcelona and noticed nearly no difference...
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So Messi isn't turning and running faster than a random 70 overall guy. Di Maria, the same. Dybala, like above. Neymar, too. This is what you are saying right?

Sorry, but it's simply not my experience of the game.
 
Wait until saying it's an issue related to every mode and stats haven't any effect.
I'm gonna try on normal match with Ter Stegen and Messi to see if i feel a difference (but no video, i'm doing a good option file for now on, don't have time)
 
Looks like speed only affects things off the ball then, when Aubameyang is chasing a through ball rather than when he's actually controlling it. I guess this has probably been the case for years then, but the catch-up issue meant that we didn't really assess it in the same way because we already knew that dribble speeds weren't behaving properly for fast players. Testing whether it was identical to that of slow players wasn't at the forefront of our concerns.

It's hard to really know where the stats are being properly used then. Maybe the issue is that it's training mode, and it feels different in a match. But that didn't really pan out with the Man City that Chris Davies created did it?
 
Madmac79 said:
I'm a bit skeptic about players playing all the same in actual modalities tho.. this video may be a flaw of the editor-created players.. or same players reacting strangely in a non-opponents environment.. honestly pad in hand, whatever is an exhibition or a cup, I see a huge difference between my players in terms of speed, reaction time and ball control, and I'm not talking about superstars..

Of course some stats like passing are broken.. or even shooting.. no wonder, they have all those different options for shooting and passing, and most of all that damn manual.. that it's the reason it's IMPOSSIBLE to program a decent SEMI influenced by players stats the way it was in Pes 5 or 6, or in Pes 2011, the best shooting system a soccer game ever had, before this full manual mania took over.. most of you wanted it, well that's the price to pay, to give you full control to the player passing or shooting his stats must be flattened.

That said, to even suggest that I take Manchester City, and the players are the fucking same as an overall 60 chinese team.. just no, c'mon.
Click to expand...

C'mon buddy you're not blaming manual for this? He's talking about default settings.
 
rockstrongo said:
I think the more money being made online the worse games we will see.
Think the game Vs FUT money making is about double revenue
And it's scary,cause all we will have left are retarded YouTube's
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Double revenue, Then next year we get half the features!!!
 
Deco said:
C'mon buddy you're not blaming manual for this? He's talking about default settings.
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Not for this speed "issue" of course, but for the passing and the shooting being the dull mess they have been in the last years? Yes I am. Manual can be satisfying and rewarding as much as you want, but there is nothing realistic in a system that ignores stats and let's you choose exactly where to put the ball despite the player you are controlling. I know most people will disagree with me, but that's how I see it.. give me back the semi passing and the shooting of Pes 2011 with modern animations and I'll pay the game twice.
 
romagnoli said:
Looks like speed only affects things off the ball then, when Aubameyang is chasing a through ball rather than when he's actually controlling it. I guess this has probably been the case for years then, but the catch-up issue meant that we didn't really assess it in the same way because we already knew that dribble speeds weren't behaving properly for fast players. Testing whether it was identical to that of slow players wasn't at the forefront of our concerns.

It's hard to really know where the stats are being properly used then. Maybe the issue is that it's training mode, and it feels different in a match. But that didn't really pan out with the Man City that Chris Davies created did it?
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I think 'in-game' the CPU does things to out the slower player at a disadvantage. For example, when I have played a through ball
to someone like Martial, the CPU pulls the defender forward to create a bigger gap. I think the CPU has a few tricks to actually lessen the amount of times a 50-50 foot race can take place.
 
Come on guys! Do you realise that we seek for excuses for programming inadequity?
Theories for training and online -universal flattened- stats are ridiculous, with all respect.
I play exhibition matches with Premiere league teams, and sterling or mane should be like demons, but THEY ARE NOT
I can't feel the explosiveness, the agility, the speed...its like a generic player with overall 70.

Why can't we face the truth that ...ATTRIBUTES IN PES 2018 ARE MAINLY PLACEHOLDERS?
I really laugh when i see people arguing about ronalo speed should be 92 and not 89...and other stuff like that.

The game is generic, but it has its virtues:
-i really love passing on manual
-shooting has its flair
-ball physics and size
-keeper reactions and animations
-realistic pace
 
I've tried on exhibition mode, and Messi or Neymar touches the ball many more on short and long distance, so there's much more close control, but they're slowed down by every touches, like in PES 2014.
Ter Stegen pushes the ball longer and will have much more space. He is not slowed down by every small touches he does... He's just a bit slower, and slow down much more than the others while he's getting closer to the ball

EDIT/ Ter Stegen also made bigger steps than Neymar when he's running/because he's taller.
So that's the same system as PES 2014 for me... Stats vs Real Physics (Height and Weight)
It wasn't the case before PES 2014.

But what we want to see is a bit harder to test: running without the ball, from a long distance, to see what happen.
Can't we play with only one player on exhibition mode? Only for testing of course

Speed and Dribbling have an impact on the game, but not in the same way you think: "Dribbing" isn't "Dribbling accuracy" which will made a player making bad touches (there's "Ball Control" for that)
But you can see "dribbling" as "First touches frequency" like in older PES, i'm pretty sure about that.

Try and you'll see.
 
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flokiman said:
Come on guys! Do you realise that we seek for excuses for programming inadequity?
Theories for training and online -universal flattened- stats are ridiculous, with all respect.
I play exhibition matches with Premiere league teams, and sterling or mane should be like demons, but THEY ARE NOT
I can't feel the explosiveness, the agility, the speed...its like a generic player with overall 70.

Why can't we face the truth that ...ATTRIBUTES IN PES 2018 ARE MAINLY PLACEHOLDERS?
I really laugh when i see people arguing about ronalo speed should be 92 and not 89...and other stuff like that.

The game is generic, but it has its virtues:
-i really love passing on manual
-shooting has its flair
-ball physics and size
-keeper reactions and animations
-realistic pace
Click to expand...

Ridiculous is saying that controlling the ball and sprinting with Tor Stegen in an actual game feels the same as doing it with Messi.
 
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