PES 2018 BETA Discussion Thread

khalas, i am done with this beta and this game i will not buy this, ur through on goal with no one near u suddenly something has to happen, either the shot is too slow, or the defender gets his 3 meter leg to cut the ball, its not realistic at all. i d better stick with fifa and play a much more stable game when it comes to build up, as in what i see in pes 2018 is passes being always intercepted by a maniac runner into the path of the ball something which is totally unrealistic and never happens in real football, some other mechanism shoild be introduced to the game, plus add to that the scripted end to end football its just kick and rush this game there is no purpose of build up, u simply have to score at any cost because u might end up with 20 shots on target and the other player gets one shot and 1 silly looking goal against u, thats it im done
 
Currently playing 3vs3 with me and 2 COM players vs 3 human players and its a fucking joy lol
 
ramgamer said:
khalas, i am done with this beta and this game i will not buy this, ur through on goal with no one near u suddenly something has to happen, either the shot is too slow, or the defender gets his 3 meter leg to cut the ball, its not realistic at all. i d better stick with fifa and play a much more stable game when it comes to build up, as in what i see in pes 2018 is passes being always intercepted by a maniac runner into the path of the ball something which is totally unrealistic and never happens in real football, some other mechanism shoild be introduced to the game, plus add to that the scripted end to end football its just kick and rush this game there is no purpose of build up, u simply have to score at any cost because u might end up with 20 shots on target and the other player gets one shot and 1 silly looking goal against u, thats it im done
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You will buy it and you know it
 
Had no issues with connection in the 40/50 games I've played - really enjoyed the beta and the overall slower pace to the game is much appreciated. Had some great moments with long, intricate passing moves and then I've also scored some incredible breakaway goals.

Scored a great one with Mbappe last night where I managed to break free down the left hand side and fake shot round the keeper before rolling it into an empty net. A few really nice long range, low drives with players as well. Overall I've enjoyed the beta and definitely appreciate what Konami have tried to do with it. I think it's brave for Konami to release an online beta, most gamers are incredibly fickle now and will have one bad game and that'll be a "never buying PES again, always loved FIFA" but hopefully it's been a good indication for people that PES 2018 looks like being a great game.

Looking forward to playing the demo now too, I really want to see how they've improved 'Superstar' difficulty and what other options we have in Master League.
 
Even though CoOP is flawed with shitty players I am having more fun playing this game than any other PES so far. This is including PES13, PES 5 and even WE9LE. I just hope they stick with this build and don't ruin the final code.
 
Solid750 said:
You will buy it and you know it
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this will be the first year i won t buy pes , because of the reasons i just mentioned, i cannoy play manual, i ve never played manual, since ISS pro 2002, it always felt grrst with the default settings, only since pes 2012 the game has become too scripted, different, i loved pes 2011, the flow of the game and everything, the shooting aswell.
now i don t feel any enjoyment since playing vs a human can be really frustrating with the amount of interceptions and animation overrunning
 
ramgamer said:
this will be the first year i won t buy pes , because of the reasons i just mentioned, i cannoy play manual, i ve never played manual, since ISS pro 2002, it always felt grrst with the default settings, only since pes 2012 the game has become too scripted, different, i loved pes 2011, the flow of the game and everything, the shooting aswell.
now i don t feel any enjoyment since playing vs a human can be really frustrating with the amount of interceptions and animation overrunning
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So pretty much your not willing to learn the game, you mention how fifa is better. We got it. Move on bud and enjoy the game you like. Sorry it didnt work out
 
zeemeister said:
Online coop is an absolute shit show :lol: people running after the ball like it's pre school and nobody really tries to create openings or smartly timed runs.

I started off manual but seemed to be the only guy playing it without assistance. Needless to say I was a liability with my backward passing when I didn't see an option ahead of me.

Connection was great though.
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A think 2on2 coop mode will be the best online mode in pes2018
Playing it with skilled friend will be great, espessially with manual controls.
 
zeemeister said:
Regarding the defending side of the game I agree with VCLMPX (dude you need a new username :) )

I understand that in its current state it is a little over simplified and players can pressure non stop for 90mins without any fatigue involved which is just wrong. Barcelona, Liverpool, Dortmund Real Madrid, no team on earth can't do it for more than 20mins without taking a breather, nevermind a full 90

Also every player should not be able to defend like Verratti it must be related to the following stats
- aggression
- Stamina
- defensive prowess and
- box to box card

Having Ozil or Di Maria playing as defensive midfielders who are going to hassle you all game is not realistic and far too easy to pull off on PES

On curdstars point adding more buttons or inputs is going to hamper the enjoyment. I know exactly what he means about Fifas over complicated system. It's a mess and makes the games defensive game look wrong when in fact it might be pretty good just hidden under over complicated mechanics.

I imagine the only solution would be to only allow secondary press with the players that have the above trait or balance of stats that allow them to pull back and defend. In this way Ozil will not defend regardless of what buttons you press because it is not in his character to do so (I can imagine how this is realistic already) ... Now this opens an interesting thought. If you remember the old pes arrow system that you setup to dictate which way the players will cover the pitch, people hate that this was removed. I personally think it's the right thing. If you want overlapping fullbacks play with a team that have them or in the case of Master league buy the right players. If you now start messing with player traits and stopping them from defending because it's not in their nature, imagine the consequence from the fans who are already divided about the lack of arrows.

Personally I feel gegenpress and tiki taki must not be a universal ability. It can't work for every team because you don't have the players to pull it off.

Similar to trying to force Barcelona to play target man football. None of their strikers have the ability. Should the game allow it there must be consequence to it, which for target man might be right but I feel gegenpress and a few other game styles need to be revisited. You can't have a universal system that works regardless or the teams you use.
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i wonder or think because all players in beta are studs, they have high stamina stat. Bet they are 80+ stamina and why you can press all game long in beta.
anyway player abilities probably need improved from what Konami's done.
 
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I was a big fan of 2 vs 2 on PES 2015 especially on 11v11 lobbies, but we avoided to play on 3 vs 3, because it was too messy for playing. Real Co-op is for me by pair, 3 vs 3 is a bit hybrid, i know that they want to made things unlike Fifa, but well you could play 2 vs 2 on olders PES already...

I don't even tried that mode on the beta.
 
ramgamer said:
khalas, i am done with this beta and this game i will not buy this, ur through on goal with no one near u suddenly something has to happen, either the shot is too slow, or the defender gets his 3 meter leg to cut the ball, its not realistic at all. i d better stick with fifa and play a much more stable game when it comes to build up, as in what i see in pes 2018 is passes being always intercepted by a maniac runner into the path of the ball something which is totally unrealistic and never happens in real football, some other mechanism shoild be introduced to the game, plus add to that the scripted end to end football its just kick and rush this game there is no purpose of build up, u simply have to score at any cost because u might end up with 20 shots on target and the other player gets one shot and 1 silly looking goal against u, thats it im done
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Really? Fifa stable build-up? What about those that dribble the whole pitch in a total unrealistic way? That's stable build-up?

Tho i agree in this beta there are tons of things that makes me mad, special the scripting but, they've stated several times already that we should not judge gameplay that hard because this beta is about online testing and feedback only.

We shoul really start to judge after Gamescom and demo release, there will be the final code with a better gameplay(as Konami said at least).

So, until then i'll wait with patience even if right now im kinda pissed myself on some aspects.
 
ramgamer said:
khalas, i am done with this beta and this game i will not buy this, ur through on goal with no one near u suddenly something has to happen, either the shot is too slow, or the defender gets his 3 meter leg to cut the ball, its not realistic at all. i d better stick with fifa and play a much more stable game when it comes to build up, as in what i see in pes 2018 is passes being always intercepted by a maniac runner into the path of the ball something which is totally unrealistic and never happens in real football, some other mechanism shoild be introduced to the game, plus add to that the scripted end to end football its just kick and rush this game there is no purpose of build up, u simply have to score at any cost because u might end up with 20 shots on target and the other player gets one shot and 1 silly looking goal against u, thats it im done
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You do know that this is a beta and still an early code right!? Wait untill the demo or the release ;)
 
zeemeister said:
Regarding the defending side of the game I agree with VCLMPX (dude you need a new username :) )
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Ahhh dammit not again :MAD: :BLEH: :RANT::LMAO:

zeemeister said:
I imagine the only solution would be to only allow secondary press with the players that have the above trait or balance of stats that allow them to pull back and defend. In this way Ozil will not defend regardless of what buttons you press because it is not in his character to do so (I can imagine how this is realistic already) ... Now this opens an interesting thought. If you remember the old pes arrow system that you setup to dictate which way the players will cover the pitch, people hate that this was removed. I personally think it's the right thing. If you want overlapping fullbacks play with a team that have them or in the case of Master league buy the right players. If you now start messing with player traits and stopping them from defending because it's not in their nature, imagine the consequence from the fans who are already divided about the lack of arrows.


Personally I feel gegenpress and tiki taki must not be a universal ability. It can't work for every team because you don't have the players to pull it off.

Similar to trying to force Barcelona to play target man football. None of their strikers have the ability. Should the game allow it there must be consequence to it, which for target man might be right but I feel gegenpress and a few other game styles need to be revisited. You can't have a universal system that works regardless or the teams you use.
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I agree. Some limitations should be there, like, not every player should be able to follow instructions and play the way you want them to. I don't know how everyone feels about that, but I don't mind occasionally having players in my team that feel like fitting a square peg in a round hole, so I either gotta accommodate them, through tactics, or I have to drop them or see them underperform.


romagnoli said:
The thing that ruined FIFA's defensive system irretrievably was the community's obsession with pressing, which led to a well-intentioned but ultimately misguided solution - secondary pressing was replaced by a secondary contain which doesn't actually attempt to win the ball. By only ever having one player on a team at a time capable of even challenging for the ball, the entire defensive aspect of the game, a team game, is lobotomised in the attempt to create something more 'realistic'.

PES still isn't in a position where the defensive control can properly represent manual defending, as Northzzz has been detailing previously. It's still too clumsy and not pinpoint enough in terms of controlling your defender's positioning, the size of your strides, and thus your timing. Hopefully Konami are working at getting there in the next few years.
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Which post was this? If you can, please link me, would like to read that.

Regarding size of strides, I've been using strafing (R2), walking, running (R1), standing (super cancel click once or HOLD). It looks like this:


That's 4 variations, I like the suggestion of having stride size control, but something like that really might prove to be over complicated tho. I don't know if there's any easy-to-control way to implement it.

romagnoli said:
As it is you definitely feel a difference between Kante and Lacazette, the former being all over the pitch and a ruthless ball winner. It's just about enhancing that.

It's essential that Konami look at how to make pressing more balanced, though, rather than eliminating it entirely. Bring in far more fouls for barging, keep working on the shielding, increase the clumsiness of pressing so it's easier to dodge (especially for poor defenders), look at improving the dribbling toolset so you can almost manually knock the ball into space as a pressed rushes in. But don't get rid of secondary pressing as a means of tackling the ball. Pressing needs to carry some threat to the attacker to be at all useful, and you as a player need to be able to snuff out at least two threats at once. Even if it's too effective at winning the ball right now, it's still far better than it was in 2017 owing to the pace, and it actually does an excellent job of letting you combine 2nd pressing with manually closing passing lanes to turn attacking threats into dead ends.
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I like this. Stamina should be implemented better too.

But I also think using secondary press and closing lanes, it's somewhat an indication that the tactics aren't optimal. Especially when I meet guys who want to perform early press, but they don't realize they are set up to play deep defense. Then seeing them [] press with their front line players all game long, should come with punishment (not sure in what form, stamina drain? Disrupting their defensive shape?).

The thing about front line pressure like being executed like this, in the example I've just given, is that fast attackers can actually track large areas all game long. I don't think any teams actually ask this of their forwards. That's a lot of 40 yard runs back and forth. Lacazette actually does this pretty well in the game now, coz it's all just about the speed.

So I mean, I just want something that forces teams to set up correctly, and then ask them to stick to the game plan they've chosen.

romagnoli said:
I agree that there should be something in terms of defensive work rate to represent a 'pressing speed', something which increases to max if there aren't defenders covering the ball further back (Ozil should still leg it if the opponent is through on goal and he's the furthest man back). It needn't be a drastic difference but it would definitely help show comparative lethargy when you pack your team with skilful but selfish individuals a la myClub.
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I like this as well. Someone else mentioned the press can get crazy when we play with 4 or more midfielders. It's true that a player's that in a real match, pressing speed and coverage would change, due to the system they play in, and area they are deemed responsible for. But that's going to be very, very difficult to implement in PES. That's like asking outfield players in the game to respond to contextual differences of open areas of space, and their responsibilities according to tactics. That's difficult stuff.
 
I am loving the player individuality and the difference between lower rated player and higher rated player however I am 95% sure that the release build will lessen those difference to the point where you can't tell a good player from a crap player. So I am still going to hold on to my purchase so that PES/FIFA won't screw me up again.
 
bluewomble88 said:
Still seeing an awful lot of floaty shots at goal and keepers suspended in mid-air as they dive ballerina-like to save them. In other words, nothing like real football.
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I thought the floaty keepers which do look strange look vastly improved in this edition.

cowden_harley said:
this has elements of quality to it but the input lag and players taking a touch before executing passes etc is doing my fucking nut it
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Is that a connection issue? as the passing feels really responsive to me.
 
hitmanuk said:
I thought the floaty keepers which do look strange look vastly improved in this edition.
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The long-range manual goals I've scored (which are mounting up now) feel a bit cheap anyway, but when you see the replays, I find the goalkeepers are floating in mid-air when they dive, which makes them feel even cheaper.

Just my opinion...
 
vxcmplx said:
Regarding size of strides, I've been using strafing (R2), walking, running (R1), standing (super cancel click once or HOLD). It looks like this:


That's 4 variations, I like the suggestion of having stride size control, but something like that really might prove to be over complicated tho. I don't know if there's any easy-to-control way to implement it.
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I'm at work so I'll get back to this. But FIFA Clubs feels far easier to control in terms of defensive positioning than PES. I'm not talking anything complicated, I literally mean that the way defenders move makes it feel more like Octodad than it should.

I like this. Stamina should be implemented better too.

But I also think using secondary press and closing lanes, it's somewhat an indication that the tactics aren't optimal. Especially when I meet guys who want to perform early press, but they don't realize they are set up to play deep defense. Then seeing them [] press with their front line players all game long, should come with punishment (not sure in what form, stamina drain? Disrupting their defensive shape?).

...

So I mean, I just want something that forces teams to set up correctly, and then ask them to stick to the game plan they've chosen.
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Setting up better should be more important. I think we're all agreed that if you're sprinting 40 yards just to get near the ball every time, you should be knackered and/or pulling up with an injury before the match is over.

I also definitely want to be able to tell a player when I want them to press manually, either as an override of an opportunity arises or as micromanaging of when and how far to actually chase the ball. Sometimes I will really harass the man on the ball, sometimes I just want to get right up on them to rush a pass or deny them the ability to sprint forward with the ball.

Setting the team up right is crucial, but we also don't have the means (online) to scout the opposition, to judge one ten-minute window against another, to watch video footage of our play and really delve into any analytics. We're playing 10 minute matches against someone we may never see again, only really having the formation to go by. We can make swift changes but there's always a difference between initial tactics and how a football match actually pans out.

I agree that a player who wants to press more should suffer if their team and lineup isn't ideally prepped to do so. But of course we should be able to decide when to press manually, just as we should be able to choose when to cross regardless of how many people we set up to be in the box.

I like this as well. Someone else mentioned the press can get crazy when we play with 4 or more midfielders. It's true that a player's that in a real match, pressing speed and coverage would change, due to the system they play in, and area they are deemed responsible for. But that's going to be very, very difficult to implement in PES. That's like asking outfield players in the game to respond to contextual differences of open areas of space, and their responsibilities according to tactics. That's difficult stuff.
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Well we don't want a situation where Ozil is jogging to chase someone who's clean through - that'd be a disaster.

There must be some sort of logic already which relates to responsibilities based on location on the pitch - midfielders covering in defence when someone pushes on, for example. I don't know how easy it would be, it depends what infrastructure's already there. There almost certainly is something that could be factored in, along the lines of how triggered runs become slow trots when stamina is low. You also have calculations based on where the ball is on the pitch, as to how hard a team should press (e.g. the old bug where you could stand on your goal line for the entire half and the CPU wouldn't challenge you).

It's just be making it per player - which would probably be pretty intensive on the game's calculation resources.
 
Scored my first long range shot, starting to get into the beta a bit more now.
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One of the gripes I'm finding with the beta is players who quit and ends the game, like after i scored that goal, they backed out and game ended, it just kills it a bit for me.
 
i have 2 tactics saved for the beta. its like a template and i change things for every match. seeing there is only 3 slots in the beta (like always), i wonder if we can finally save more than 3 team tactics. its about time!!
and what about replay slots? i dont mind the few replay slots to much, because of the ps4 share feature. but more would be nice.
 
Chris Davies said:
The long-range manual goals I've scored (which are mounting up now) feel a bit cheap anyway, but when you see the replays, I find the goalkeepers are floating in mid-air when they dive, which makes them feel even cheaper.

Just my opinion...
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to be honest i haven't watched many replays to look at it, i can see it in game in 2017 but it doesn't seem to stand out to me in 18
 
played again last night... changed up the way I've been playing 2017. Now I love the beta, there are issues but I understand it's a beta and they will be resolved but the overall gameplay, passing and player movement is much more dynamic than 2017. Player individuality feels much more pronounced than the past few years, Neymar is a beast and you can definitely tell the difference from him and let's say Pogba (another fast player) I do feel it's a bit sluggish at times and frame has some issues but like I said, it's a beta. Looking forward to the finished product :-)
 
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