PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

zeemeister said:
Good post Banksy

It's shocking how people approach PES and it's more shocking Konami dont do more to force people into a more sim approach

For example the sprint button is probably the most over-used one on PES.

Imagine if Konami relooked sprinting and stamina where a player could only do a sprint in bursts and needing time to recover before he can try it again NBA 2k style. I am moist just thinking about a mechanic like that in PES. Dependent on a players stamina and so forth it would be immense.
Both franchises need to really break the mould and start to fiddle around with the basic fundamentals but both seem to scared to lose support.
Click to expand...

they won't loose support, kids just need to learn how football is supposed to be.
 
Banksy said:
They also don't play the high percentages..when once have you seen clearances to the sideline,or the simple pass that will get them out of danger..

It's win the ball in the box face the opposing forward and try to pass or walk it out when a lot of the time it's the wrong time or situation..

Just lazy,sloppy play and you can see the r2 mechanic being rarely used...no use of close control and how it allows you to create more intricate passing angles and space.

Easy to play hard to master..but also one dimensional and repetitive if you don't hit the high notes or really understand how to hit the G spot of the code.

I always make sure every player in my team touches the ball before I even attemp a offensive play.
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Have u ever tried the player camera in training? If you haven't you should.
Think you're gonna like it.
It's also an idea for some that don't get how this game should be played.
Good place to start.

Will not be easy at first, especially for those that never really played on a pitch.

Just like you said, this game is easy to play but difficult to master.


Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk
 
Banksy said:
Defo going to put some of my own gameplay videos of the demo up next week..

Just don't think I can stomach watching people play pes17 so badly..

What concerns me more is people just don't know how to defend..honestly,my 4 year old boy can pass better and work the ball better then most of these clowns..

You can tell the majority are people that only play Fifa,as they blatantly run players all over the pitch because there so used to a game that just compensates for this.What is positive though,is how much space and how open they leave themselves.I was a little worried they were going to make pes17 like Fifa where players have super recovery rates and you can leave holes without any real fear your opponent or the cpu will hurt you.

Clicking the cursor around,no regard for structural integrity..

This is why so many get frustrated with 16..beyond foot planting,stats and all the other stuff people bellyache about this is what pes does so well.Its like chess,one bad decision or move and your exposed(that's footie).

The constant pressing in alot of the vids just gets my goat..slow down,try to intercept cutting down the passing channels,think a bit more,pass and move..people just don't let the ball do the work or try to pen the opposition in there half with a slow build up.
Click to expand...

I think this is a tough call though. You can't just expect people to play the game the right way. If the game allows for those things to happen in the first place, then that's how they're going to play.

If the base of the game isn't built on proper positioning, then there will never be a chance of forcing the user to play the right way. I spent countless hours in FIFA trying to get sliders right, and you know which values got the most adjustments?

Line Height
Line Length
Line Width
Marking

Again, all relevant to positioning. If positioning was done right, these players who tried to sprint back and forth would not stand a chance. I'd rather there be a way to force players to play the right way versus stating that they need to play the right way because it's the right thing to do. It needs to work vice-versa though for the CPU of course.
 
aitken said:
So would NZ account be the best bet to have PES 2017 Demo tomorrow?
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Don't know about other regions, but you don't need a NZ account to actually download the demo from the NZ store. Last year, I simply went to the psn NZ store online via my webbrowser (not via my ps4), went to demo section and clicked pes16 demo that I wanted do dl. It asked for me to sign in which I did via my Australian account. I then clicked 'confirm purchase', and next time I switched my ps4 on (I logged into my Australian account), I had pes16 downloading in my download section.

I just tried this same method a few moments ago, downloading the latest demo on the nz store and it seems to work, ie. I get to the 'confirm purchase' stage. I cant get to my ps4 and log into it right now, but im sure it works.

Btw, wouldn't you think that the demo would come out on the Japanese store frist???

I do remember that the pes14 demo first came out on the Hong Kong store..but it was that demo that was soon deleted..

last year it was NZ.. around 12am-1am I think.. not sure on that..
 
aussiepesfan said:
Don't know about other regions, but you don't need a NZ account to actually download the demo from the NZ store. Last year, I simply went to the psn NZ store online via my webbrowser (not via my ps4), went to demo section and clicked pes16 demo that I wanted do dl. It asked for me to sign in which I did via my Australian account. I then clicked 'confirm purchase', and next time I switched my ps4 on (I logged into my Australian account), I had pes16 downloading in my download section.

I just tried this same method a few moments ago, downloading the latest demo on the nz store and it seems to work, ie. I get to the 'confirm purchase' stage. I cant get to my ps4 and log into it right now, but im sure it works.

Btw, wouldn't you think that the demo would come out on the Japanese store frist???

I do remember that the pes14 demo first came out on the Hong Kong store..but it was that demo that was soon deleted..

last year it was NZ.. around 12am-1am I think.. not sure on that..
Click to expand...

The reason that you can use Australian PSN account to download the demo on NZ is that they share the same product code. It should not work when you do the same thing on Hong Kong as the store will use a different product code for PES 2017.

Japanese store probably will not be the first region releasing the demo this year. Konami has announced the release date of the demo in Japan and it is 25 August. Japan PSN store usually will be updated on every Thursday noon (UTC+9).
 
SiuMing said:
The reason that you can use Australian PSN account to download the demo on NZ is that they share the same product code. It should not work when you do the same thing on Hong Kong as the store will use a different product code for PES 2017.

Japanese store probably will not be the first region releasing the demo this year. Konami has announced the release date of the demo in Japan and it is 25 August. Japan PSN store usually will be updated on every Thursday noon (UTC+9).
Click to expand...

cheers for the info ;)
 
Matt10 said:
I think this is a tough call though. You can't just expect people to play the game the right way. If the game allows for those things to happen in the first place, then that's how they're going to play.

If the base of the game isn't built on proper positioning, then there will never be a chance of forcing the user to play the right way. I spent countless hours in FIFA trying to get sliders right, and you know which values got the most adjustments?

Line Height
Line Length
Line Width
Marking

Again, all relevant to positioning. If positioning was done right, these players who tried to sprint back and forth would not stand a chance. I'd rather there be a way to force players to play the right way versus stating that they need to play the right way because it's the right thing to do. It needs to work vice-versa though for the CPU of course.
Click to expand...
:WORSHIP:
hope to see it before PS5 comes
 
Couldn't read the thread properly so I dont' know if there have been many reviews of the Gamescom demo so far, but Here are my two cents. As a developer, I went to Gamescom and could attend everything before it get infested with people, so I could play the demo of PES17 for 90 minutes. i had some meetings so I had to srop playing ;)

I played mostly with Barcelona for obvious reasons, also because I can compare with last editions easier. But I also played Atletico, Boca and River.

My impression is that it is a very close iteration to the last one, obviously, with some adjustments here and there, but nothing big at all. Here is a succint summary of good and bad. I don't try to be objetcive, it is my oppinion and may mean nothing to others. I'm not a fan anymore of the series nor football games so I write this from the perspective of someone who is drifting away from the game.

I played all the time at 1 bar passing assist, 3 or 4 difficulty level against the AI.

Good
- players feel as different and unique as possible considering the game is essentislly the same as last years.
- Tactics and player movements continue the trend of the series in getting a more lively representation of football, I could see some smart moves and some stupid moves of teammates, but overall you really feel the difference between teams and gameplans, which to me is the biggest asset of the franchise, by far
- grapcihcally the game is getting on par with Fifa, and faces are great. Stadiums, nets, lighting... It looks better than ever, but nothing groundbraking
- physical play has been improved substantially, though it still lacks animations, but I could see a better fighting for position, and pushes to grt the ball... Not as robotic ans "binary" as before.
- Shooting felt much better, as well as crossing, with better ball curves and speed, though it is still too acurate to my liking.

- For the most part, goalkeepers were great, though I didn't force them too much, I play a lot of midfield and go for the chance only when there's a clear path. On crosses and corners, if they get out of the net they continue to be godlike, always catching the ball. Unaffected by the crowds or whatever. More rror there would be great.

Bad
- it is still too accurate in terms of passing and shooting. I can understand Messi being practically god, but when you take a lesser player you should feel much more the lack of skill, specially in passing AND ball control, When I played Boca, I missed as many passes as being Barcelona. This is because I tried to play th e game exactly the same with both teams, and though it was more difficult to create chances with boca due to the lack of superstars upfront, I could control the match the same way at midfield, passing around, Passing being too accurate destroys a bit the experience to me. You can create great team moves and combinations which is amazing, but it is a bit too easy with worse players, I would prefer is more represented in the game, running with a less skilled player should imply larger, uncontroled touches. Trying to pass with a lesser skilled CB should be dangeorus...

- I had a match with 3 fouls, but still missing too many. It is a problem of the developers prefering fluid gameplay, but also because passing is still so accurate and players too skilled and not enough loose balls, it's the result of a sum of factors.

- with passing still being so accurate, you can, again, grt out of dangerous situations so easily. Getting out of the own box passing around should be something only doa le with big teams with big stars. Doing it effortlessly with Boca or River wasn't fun at all.

- The game still has the ugly gamebraker that made me stop playing it. It is the stupid way in which the opponent striker is left unmarked when you are attacking. For example, if you cross the ball or shoot and the CPU (or a human, it doesn' matter) gets the ball and starts the counter, there is ALWAYS a hole between your defenders and deffensive midfielders, and the opponent striker will be there alone, ready to receive the ball. I've fought this for years to no end, and can't be avoided. To me it totally kills the experience as it doesn't matter at all what I do or how I do it, even if I have 3 defenders left back and only attack with strikers, the game is done in a way and tactics are so primitive that it always leave you exposed to a counter when you loose the ball, because the striker will be able to receive the ball alone most of the time, even if there are 3 defenders there who have no one to mark. It is a result of how tactics work for the defenders when you are attacking and the passing being soooo accurate. If you are dominating the field and are superior in midfield, in real life you can see teams like Barcelona putting the opponent back and recovering the ball fast, with defenders anticipating the onely striker left by the opponent. In PES, this is impossible to replicate. The ressons why we see so many running up and down in the game is because the game IS DESIGNED to do so. Accurate passing is there because they want to allow players to pass around easily, that's ehy hardly anyone clears the ball away, no matter the situation, because passing out of a situation is always there,

To me, that's the biggest challenge of the game, and has been for years, and though this years there are improvements I still feel the basic experience will remain exactly the same, Some will love it and some won't. Personally, I will try it and play occasionslly ( I only play single player) but I can see the same flaws there (which it isn't a surorise). It continues to be a good game and the one that represents better the flow of football and the way y it, in my oppinion.
 
Good review. The passing problems are clearly visible in the videos. It's to easy to spray the ball around all field with no effort at all.

Online will be a massive ping pong fest. While offline we as a player can combat that in our own way of play, but I am afraid the cpu is to accurate in passing once again. And there's the fouls problem and there's little to no efforts from cpu at shooting since the videos against cpu I saw cpu only shoot 1, 2 or none times, witch says a lot...

Let's see its just tonight or tomorrow morning I am going to take my doubts out.

And drekkard I am totally with you when you state that should be the game to force us play football not the other way round. I am sure that if teams like Villarreal, getafe etc could get to the goal with ping pong passing or with a lob through ball and 90% of that worked, or if they could just run and pressure the adversary without no punishment, they will all do that, and they will not be worried if it resembles football or not.
 
Thank goodness we can all review for ourselves soon :BOP::BOP::BOP:

We'll never know about a game, you can see 1080P 60 FPS videos all day long. you'll never know the feeling of a game until you experience it
 
RockyJJP said:
Thank goodness we can all review for ourselves soon :BOP::BOP::BOP:

We'll never know about a game, you can see 1080P 60 FPS videos all day long. you'll never know the feeling of a game until you experience it
Click to expand...
Amen.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks Drekkard. Sucks if the passing is much the same as last year.

As someone who, FIFA or PES, has never agreed with the concept of manual passing being more realistic outside of 11v11 (short passing should be far easier than long passing, and it's the players who should be determining whether a pass is accurate, not my thumb), I'm disappointed that this is the case. I'll see for myself on Wednesday but I have no reason to doubt you, as opposed to some random guy on Youtube.

Even if you're on full assisted there should be passing error. I don't know why this isn't the case. In PES 2016 the passing error was much the same as in FIFA 11 - it's just represented as being a slightly slower pass if you're passing 180 degrees behind you, or you only see issues with through balls. It's particularly frustrating because forcing weaker teams to pass the way they're facing or risk an angled pass (and better players being able to turn the dynamic of the game more readily) is part and parcel of the sort of game the rest of PES tries to reproduce.
 
romagnoli said:
Thanks Drekkard. Sucks if the passing is much the same as last year.

As someone who, FIFA or PES, has never agreed with the concept of manual passing being more realistic outside of 11v11 (short passing should be far easier than long passing, and it's the players who should be determining whether a pass is accurate, not my thumb), I'm disappointed that this is the case. I'll see for myself on Wednesday but I have no reason to doubt you, as opposed to some random guy on Youtube.

Even if you're on full assisted there should be passing error. I don't know why this isn't the case. In PES 2016 the passing error was much the same as in FIFA 11 - it's just represented as being a slightly slower pass if you're passing 180 degrees behind you, or you only see issues with through balls. It's particularly frustrating because forcing weaker teams to pass the way they're facing or risk an angled pass (and better players being able to turn the dynamic of the game more readily) is part and parcel of the sort of game the rest of PES tries to reproduce.
Click to expand...

completely agreed and personally i only use manual passing with complete reluctance as I feel I have no other choice
 
romagnoli said:
Thanks Drekkard. Sucks if the passing is much the same as last year.

As someone who, FIFA or PES, has never agreed with the concept of manual passing being more realistic outside of 11v11 (short passing should be far easier than long passing, and it's the players who should be determining whether a pass is accurate, not my thumb), I'm disappointed that this is the case. I'll see for myself on Wednesday but I have no reason to doubt you, as opposed to some random guy on Youtube.

Even if you're on full assisted there should be passing error. I don't know why this isn't the case. In PES 2016 the passing error was much the same as in FIFA 11 - it's just represented as being a slightly slower pass if you're passing 180 degrees behind you, or you only see issues with through balls. It's particularly frustrating because forcing weaker teams to pass the way they're facing or risk an angled pass (and better players being able to turn the dynamic of the game more readily) is part and parcel of the sort of game the rest of PES tries to reproduce.
Click to expand...
As Robbieryan said, 100% agree.

It's the PES way of doing things and I can see why they do it in terms of creating a highlights package over the course of 15 minutes, and I guess their attitude is "it should be about your mistakes as the player, not the footballer making a mistake and making your game more frustrating" - but it instantly rules out playing online, for me (it's less about footballing knowledge and more about button-spamming), and it sounds like another year of far-too-perfect AI that isn't programmed to reproduce human error (in passes or tackles).

That being said, I'm really enjoying PES at the moment, and it'll be an improvement. Still looking forward to it, but... I wish there was just a little bit of human error in there, especially from the AI.
 
Chris Davies said:
As Robbieryan said, 100% agree.

It's the PES way of doing things and I can see why they do it in terms of creating a highlights package over the course of 15 minutes, and I guess their attitude is "it should be about your mistakes as the player, not the footballer making a mistake and making your game more frustrating" - but it instantly rules out playing online, for me (it's less about footballing knowledge and more about button-spamming), and it sounds like another year of far-too-perfect AI that isn't programmed to reproduce human error (in passes or tackles).

That being said, I'm really enjoying PES at the moment, and it'll be an improvement. Still looking forward to it, but... I wish there was just a little bit of human error in there, especially from the AI.
Click to expand...

there is human error involved for years now!! thing is: its not in the game itself, its in the production team! ;)

im with you here 100%! little more AI error and it would look (maybe even play) much better!
 
Banksy said:
They also don't play the high percentages..when once have you seen clearances to the sideline,or the simple pass that will get them out of danger..

It's win the ball in the box face the opposing forward and try to pass or walk it out when a lot of the time it's the wrong time or situation..
Click to expand...

I agree with you. However, the game could help in this respect. For instance, if you try to turn 360 degrees instantly you should fall over as you would in real life. Or get clattered by the opposition because it takes that extra couple of seconds to about-turn.

But then you might get people moaning about "lack of responsiveness".
 
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Banksy said:
Your like a lot of people Matt,you just don't get it or can you play it..

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it..

Don't have any of the problems many of you have because I understand the philosophy behind pes16..

Can't wait for 17 because I'm already a very satisfied punter with 16..

You go back to your sliders and Fifa and like many remain blind to what so many see..your not as smart as you think.

I've said it before those that didn't like 16 won't like 17..because keepers aside and the refs,fundamentally the core of the game is perfect imo..
Click to expand...

That is very harsh and it seems to be without respect...perhaps you should explain yourself better.

It's only a video game...
 
drekkard said:
Couldn't read the thread properly so I dont' know if there have been many reviews of the Gamescom demo so far, but Here are my two cents. As a developer, I went to Gamescom and could attend everything before it get infested with people, so I could play the demo of PES17 for 90 minutes. i had some meetings so I had to srop playing ;)

I played mostly with Barcelona for obvious reasons, also because I can compare with last editions easier. But I also played Atletico, Boca and River.

My impression is that it is a very close iteration to the last one, obviously, with some adjustments here and there, but nothing big at all. Here is a succint summary of good and bad. I don't try to be objetcive, it is my oppinion and may mean nothing to others. I'm not a fan anymore of the series nor football games so I write this from the perspective of someone who is drifting away from the game.

I played all the time at 1 bar passing assist, 3 or 4 difficulty level against the AI.

Good
- players feel as different and unique as possible considering the game is essentislly the same as last years.
- Tactics and player movements continue the trend of the series in getting a more lively representation of football, I could see some smart moves and some stupid moves of teammates, but overall you really feel the difference between teams and gameplans, which to me is the biggest asset of the franchise, by far
- grapcihcally the game is getting on par with Fifa, and faces are great. Stadiums, nets, lighting... It looks better than ever, but nothing groundbraking
- physical play has been improved substantially, though it still lacks animations, but I could see a better fighting for position, and pushes to grt the ball... Not as robotic ans "binary" as before.
- Shooting felt much better, as well as crossing, with better ball curves and speed, though it is still too acurate to my liking.

- For the most part, goalkeepers were great, though I didn't force them too much, I play a lot of midfield and go for the chance only when there's a clear path. On crosses and corners, if they get out of the net they continue to be godlike, always catching the ball. Unaffected by the crowds or whatever. More rror there would be great.

Bad
- it is still too accurate in terms of passing and shooting. I can understand Messi being practically god, but when you take a lesser player you should feel much more the lack of skill, specially in passing AND ball control, When I played Boca, I missed as many passes as being Barcelona. This is because I tried to play th e game exactly the same with both teams, and though it was more difficult to create chances with boca due to the lack of superstars upfront, I could control the match the same way at midfield, passing around, Passing being too accurate destroys a bit the experience to me. You can create great team moves and combinations which is amazing, but it is a bit too easy with worse players, I would prefer is more represented in the game, running with a less skilled player should imply larger, uncontroled touches. Trying to pass with a lesser skilled CB should be dangeorus...

- I had a match with 3 fouls, but still missing too many. It is a problem of the developers prefering fluid gameplay, but also because passing is still so accurate and players too skilled and not enough loose balls, it's the result of a sum of factors.

- with passing still being so accurate, you can, again, grt out of dangerous situations so easily. Getting out of the own box passing around should be something only doa le with big teams with big stars. Doing it effortlessly with Boca or River wasn't fun at all.

- The game still has the ugly gamebraker that made me stop playing it. It is the stupid way in which the opponent striker is left unmarked when you are attacking. For example, if you cross the ball or shoot and the CPU (or a human, it doesn' matter) gets the ball and starts the counter, there is ALWAYS a hole between your defenders and deffensive midfielders, and the opponent striker will be there alone, ready to receive the ball. I've fought this for years to no end, and can't be avoided. To me it totally kills the experience as it doesn't matter at all what I do or how I do it, even if I have 3 defenders left back and only attack with strikers, the game is done in a way and tactics are so primitive that it always leave you exposed to a counter when you loose the ball, because the striker will be able to receive the ball alone most of the time, even if there are 3 defenders there who have no one to mark. It is a result of how tactics work for the defenders when you are attacking and the passing being soooo accurate. If you are dominating the field and are superior in midfield, in real life you can see teams like Barcelona putting the opponent back and recovering the ball fast, with defenders anticipating the onely striker left by the opponent. In PES, this is impossible to replicate. The ressons why we see so many running up and down in the game is because the game IS DESIGNED to do so. Accurate passing is there because they want to allow players to pass around easily, that's ehy hardly anyone clears the ball away, no matter the situation, because passing out of a situation is always there,

To me, that's the biggest challenge of the game, and has been for years, and though this years there are improvements I still feel the basic experience will remain exactly the same, Some will love it and some won't. Personally, I will try it and play occasionslly ( I only play single player) but I can see the same flaws there (which it isn't a surorise). It continues to be a good game and the one that represents better the flow of football and the way y it, in my oppinion.
Click to expand...

Passing being easy but yet say it's difficult to score makes me wonder what you guys want from PES as a franchise. You want so many errors, you want so many mistakes, you want so many inaccurate passing even if it's Iniesta playing. What's next? basically you want to eliminate the fun factor that PES has always been known for. Sorry but I don't think everyone wants that type of football, you can go and downlaod PES 2014. Passing to me looks great and has more weight to it compared to last year, saying its the same as last year makes me question what you played.
 
He said it's the same regarding precision. And how do you know passing has more weight if you did not played it?

And in videos you can see that playing Barcelona or Boca in terms of pass precision it's the same. There's almost no error to it, it's perfect ping pong like it was on 2016. That is what's bothering me the most. Shooting I must play to have that felling but passing having more or less weight to it that does not show on videos, it's indifferent if passing accuracy it's equal to last year. Tonight or tomorrow we will take our doubts.
 
PES94 said:
Passing being easy but yet say it's difficult to score makes me wonder what you guys want from PES as a franchise. You want so many errors, you want so many mistakes, you want so many inaccurate passing even if it's Iniesta playing. What's next? basically you want to eliminate the fun factor that PES has always been known for. Sorry but I don't think everyone wants that type of football, you can go and downlaod PES 2014. Passing to me looks great and has more weight to it compared to last year, saying its the same as last year makes me question what you played.
Click to expand...

Amen to that..it's not like a second division player can't hit a good pass or through ball,nor are they totally lacking ability in front of goal..

Some just want a slow poo faced simulation..without considering it still has to be a game.
 
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PES94 said:
Passing being easy but yet say it's difficult to score makes me wonder what you guys want from PES as a franchise. You want so many errors, you want so many mistakes, you want so many inaccurate passing even if it's Iniesta playing. What's next? basically you want to eliminate the fun factor that PES has always been known for. Sorry but I don't think everyone wants that type of football, you can go and downlaod PES 2014. Passing to me looks great and has more weight to it compared to last year, saying its the same as last year makes me question what you played.
Click to expand...

so your saying it shouldnt matter whos passing the ball, it should all come down to user not player, defeats the purpose of having indivuality then, iniesta and similar players like that should stand out more with the precise pass especially the longer pass, drekkard states thats not the case, lesser players are performing world class passing, thats how i read his statement.
 
Banksy said:
Amen to that..it's not like a second division player can't hit a good pass or through ball,nor are they totally lacking ability in front of goal..

Some just want a slow poo faced simulation..without considering it still has to be a game.
Click to expand...
Yeah the thing is in PES every player can hit a through ball almost every time with no effort at all, whereas in a real game a killer pass is seen 2 or three times if that much per game. And only the likes of Iniesta an put the ball majestically almost every time.

But we all just saw by your commentary and PES94 that you both want a fast paced game were player attributes like pass accuracy, pass speed, vision etc does not interest at all jut in the name of the flow of the game...

Like we never had a game where stats matter and the flow was fast in the past.

It's just a question of good programming and much more variables than we have at the moment. Everyone in the past complained that fifa as no distinction between players that shooting with ibra it's the same as shooting with a 3rd division player, or passing with pirlo was the same as passing with John Terry. Well it seem like PES is heading that direction nowadays in order to please the masses and the ones that want fast forward games with brainless chicken running, and then people complain that they are playing the wrong way...

There is no wrong way to play a game, we only play some way if the game permits that, and playing online nowadays it's useless, and nothing about skill, but about exploiting the lame passing the broken slide passing, and the easy shooting with both foots no matter the player.
 
Lower division players can hit accurate passes, sure. And the sport has evolved since 10 years ago - the general technical level has improved.

But you can't just say lower division players can hit accurate passes and justify Boca being equal to Barca in their ability to hit pinpoint first touch passing at difficult angles. It's just like when I used to face FIFA fans saying that ping pong passing was fine because Barcelona. Well of course that's fine if you're not interested in why it is that Barca could play that way, or why Swansea were briefly nicknamed Swanselona, or why it's not only the very biggest clubs who play one-touch passing while everyone else lumps it up the pitch.

The small clubs who play one-touch short passing well are successful because they pass the way they're facing, and are well organised enough to have at least one option to pass to at all times. They play one-touch, but they work to make sure those passes are straightforward. You will also see these sides play passes which are a bit behind the recipient, or not quite fast enough, or are hard to get under control - the frequency of this is another way to distinguish top sides from middling ones who try to play the same way. They will have to recycle play more because the opportunity is lost.

There's a clear difference between a top side playing tight one-touch football and a lesser side attempting the same. It doesn't mean the lesser side can't play accurate passes, but you can see the difference represented by the way the recipient has to receive the more difficult passes, and where the attacking move flows next as a result.

Matt, don't bite. Everyone rational can see you've done nothing wrong.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
so your saying it shouldnt matter whos passing the ball, it should all come down to user not player, defeats the purpose of having indivuality then, iniesta and similar players like that should stand out more with the precise pass especially the longer pass, drekkard states thats not the case, lesser players are performing world class passing, thats how i read his statement.
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Define the kinds of passing being delivered, if it's closed ranged and more so just obvious passing accuracy then it takes no superstar to do that. It's basically the first thing a pro player should be able to do. Making so many mistakes makes no sense. There aren't many passing errors in real life for experienced or good players, and teams. If the guy is talking about first touch passing being accurate and easy for every player then I might understand that it might be a problem. But I don't think that's what he meant. Many who played the game pointed out how Ozil stands out as a better passer than others.
 
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