PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Elja]

I agree that the AI is too perfect inside the box, they just don't make mistakes. I'm a big PES 2016 fan and only got 2 penalties through out this year. In, FIFA, you would get many penalties since the AI is programmed to make mistakes, some penalties are not even penalties but I think fans will accept it rather than no penalties at all.

But outside the box I've seen the AI make many fouls, especially after the EURO DLC. So I'm pretty confident there will be many fouls since the referees are said to be much better this year. But seriously, konami should not make the AI play so perfect inside the box.

 

[RAMAXWY]

i'm only saying the only good thing that comes from the other game, is the foul system XD, don't worry i am A PES man

Was just a joke buddy.
I agree the fouling system could and should be better but it didn't mess up my gaming experience and pleasure with PES 2016 as most of the people claim it has.
So the shouting from rooftops that it's a game breaker really baffles me.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT7-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Banksy]

We also have to bare in mind on higher difficulties the cpu should play almost perfect because it's reflecting a user who's play is of a really high standard..

I don't make a lot of bad challenges or tackles because my timing is near perfect as is my accuracy on unassisted..

This isn't a game breaker and it's logical that the cpu on superstar should be near faultless..

I've not played a footie game yet where the cpu ai even comes close to playing like a human..

Barges and raised arms are most of the time punished..

If folks want to experience how a football should be and play,get a friend or play a like minded player online..the cpu has always been a training exercise and even in Fifa16 it's just as perfect on world class and legendary.Yes there's a little more error,but it's hardly human or dynamic in Fifa.

This is the crux..I can flip between the two games and I don't feel playing the cpu is any worse or better on either game.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

FIFA doesn't have to come into it. If PES is a football game, there needs to be misjudgements by the AI when it comes to tackles. I've only ever seen that once in a blue moon, or in derby matches (as pointed out above) - but even then, the fouls aren't misjudgements, they're deliberate.

yeah, like if you have a good player and make a good move the cpu should foul you because it got beat....not just because the cpu is programmed to foul at random times.

 

[zeemeister]

Jeez I didn't make one complaint I just offered a possible solution for people that wanted a more aggressive game and I wouldn't complain about a video of a demo of a not yet released game. If the refs are fixed I think there will be more fouls in 2017 as my main issue with with 16 was the cpu doing the same foul as I would but getting punished less or not at all. I'm not trying to be a dick here but for the people saying that they get alot of fouls on 16 and it depends on how you play it could someone post a video or an explanation on how to do this and put the argument to bed.

Not attacking you my friend. Agree the foul count can be considered low but it's not non existent like it seems to be made out.

I also have videos of the AI wiping me out entirely and the ref just letting it go.

Peace and love

 

[zeemeister]

I found a video I made around the releae of PES 2016 sorry if it's deemed off topic these are exhibition and myclub games against the AI

https://youtu.be/i8Sl3fledLk

 

[RAMAXWY]

Not attacking you my friend. Agree the foul count can be considered low but it's not non existent like it seems to be made out.

I also have videos of the AI wiping me out entirely and the ref just letting it go.

Peace and love

exactly my point.

 

[Keith Houchen]

I've seen the AI make many fouls, especially after the EURO DLC. So I'm pretty confident there will be many fouls since the referees are said to be much better this year.

Nowadays 1-3 AI fouls per match are wrongly deemed to be 'enough'. They're not nearly enough to curb the unPESlike hack-and-slash frantic gameplay that multiplayers love so much.

If the game was calibrated to satisfy single-players who want fouls and free kicks, the multiplayers would scream long and loud.

What's annoyed me this year is all the summertime testers coming back saying 'refs are fixed now'. We knew at the time that they'd just played each other, but they were SO insistent that it was no longer a problem that it served to keep the fouls issue quiet until now. Now Konami present us with a fait accompli. Another year of no fouls and happy multiplayers, and another when the PES formula is watered down even more. I can still taste PES in the games we have now, but I'm increasingly having to use my imagination.

 

[Banksy]

All I care about is that when I make a bad tackle or challenge and the cpu does there's balance,consistency in the decision making.

If the cpu makes perfectly timed tackles and challenges..what's the problem?

 

[RAMAXWY]

Nowadays 1-3 AI fouls per match are wrongly deemed to be 'enough'. They're not nearly enough to curb the unPESlike hack-and-slash frantic gameplay that multiplayers love so much.

If the game was calibrated to satisfy single-players who want fouls and free kicks, the multiplayers would scream long and loud.

What's annoyed me this year is all the summertime testers coming back saying 'refs are fixed now'. We knew at the time that they'd just played each other, but they were SO insistent that it was no longer a problem that it served to keep the fouls issue quiet until now. Now Konami present us with a fait accompli. Another year of no fouls and happy multiplayers, and another when the PES formula is watered down even more. I can still taste PES in the games we have now, but I'm increasingly having to use my imagination.

we should atleast play the demo before making this statement don't you think?

 

[RAMAXWY]

All I care about is that when I make a bad tackle or challenge and the cpu does there's balance,consistency in the decision making.

If the cpu makes perfectly timed tackles and challenges..what's the problem?

losing possession, getting angry,the feeling of being robbed (maybe conceding a goal)blaming it on the ref, the game.

just a few i could think of. there might be more.

 

[h3li0]

So now that 2017 is here, for some here, suddenly pes 2016 lack of fouls was not a problem anymore. FFS that is one thing that has no defense at all.

I know the set pieces system sucks and getting a free kick nowadays is nowhere near as satisfactory as it was in the old system but football has fouls. I was watching chelsea game yesterday and there was many fouls, why can't pes team make a 2 or 3 fouls per half at the minimum? That would suffice in a 10 minute game.

Almost no fouls, 0 or 1 penalty in a season it's unacceptable for a football game even if it's a "game" as some like to call it when people point flaws.

It's like playing an fps where body shoots don't matter only heads hoot will kill you...

 

[pretty]

I'm surprised fouls seems to be portrayed as the number one issue of pes.

For me it's the goalkeepers, and a.i goals I'm fed up of the basketball score lines and 99% of a.i goals being scored the same way.

I'm not sure how many of you have been playing a master league since release last year but the two issues I mentioned really detract from "realism" more than the lack of fouls.

 

[Chris Davies]

I'm surprised fouls seems to be portrayed as the number one issue of pes.

For me it's the goalkeepers, and a.i goals I'm fed up of the basketball score lines and 99% of a.i goals being scored the same way.

I'm not sure how many of you have been playing a master league since release last year but the two issues I mentioned really detract from "realism" more than the lack of fouls.

You're absolutely right - but the videos so far show better keepers, I think, and real hope. I've not seen as many crazy scorelines.

 

[Deco]

I found a video I made around the releae of PES 2016 sorry if it's deemed off topic these are exhibition and myclub games against the AI

https://youtu.be/i8Sl3fledLk

Good video Zee as you know I play a lot of Pes 2016 Master League and regularly get fouled by the A.I . . sometimes as many as 5 a match I know it's probably not enough but post patch the referees don't let much go unpunished and they will pull an A.I player up a long time after the advantage has been played. If the frequency of fouls committed by the A.i is increased and penalties awarded regularly in Pes 2017. ..well I wouldn't see a problem . ..obviously if you hold on to the ball more without zipping passes around you are going to draw more fouls from the A.i.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Good video Zee as you know I play a lot of Pes 2016 Master League and regularly get fouled by the A.I . . sometimes as many as 5 a match I know it's probably not enough but post patch the referees don't let much go unpunished and they will pull an A.I player up a long time after the advantage has been played. If the frequency of fouls committed by the A.i is increased and penalties awarded regularly in Pes 2017. ..well I wouldn't see a problem . ..obviously if you hold on to the ball more without zipping passes around you are going to draw more fouls from the A.i.

just like the real game.

really need the demo now!!

 

[pretty]

You're absolutely right - but the videos so far show better keepers, I think, and real hope. I've not seen as many crazy scorelines.

The thing I'm most looking forward to is the adaptive a.i.

In 2016 the a.i already makes visible adjustments to tactics, e.g some teams will go offensive to try and score a goal, or defensive to keep a lead but if they do what's been described in 2017, e.g if you rely on a playmaker they'll mark him out of the game etc then it will absolutely transform master league.

I'm looking forward to testing the a.i out in the demo, I'm going to really push it by emphasising play down the wings for example and seeing if the a.i reacts.

 

[Banksy]

losing possession, getting angry,the feeling of being robbed (maybe conceding a goal)blaming it on the ref, the game.

just a few i could think of. there might be more.

Lol..Im chomping at the bit to try this new adaptive ai..(could be a megatron).

Don't think I've been so excited for a demo or pes in years..16 for me is so close to being everything I want in a footie game.

It was bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[pretty]

Lol..Im chomping at the bit to try this new adaptive ai..(could be a megatron).

Exactly.

This feature could absolutely transform football games.

Playing a.i in 2016 was already good, in master league I can absolutely tell the difference when playing different teams.

 

[broxopios]

So what do you think guys. For the polo scorelines in PES 2016 responsible are the Keepers? For me is shooting and defensive AI. With huge spaces in defense, is more likely to score a goal. With the almost perfect shooting trajectories and the little existence of errors, is also very likely to score more goals.

In PES 2017 videos, it seems that defensive AI is a lot of improvement and we can see already logical scores (of course we have to play it). If pes team improve the shooting system, with trajectories and errors depending on players stats, body balance, wrong foot, then not only we can see even more logical scorelines but the same time, scoring a goal bring back the satisfying factor.

 

[pretty]

So what do you think guys. For the polo scorelines in PES 2016 responsible are the Keepers? For me is shooting and defensive AI. With huge spaces in defense, is more likely to score a goal. With the almost perfect shooting trajectories and the little existence of errors, is also very likely to score more goals.

In PES 2017 videos, it seems that defensive AI is a lot of improvement and we can see already logical scores (of course we have to play it). If pes team improve the shooting system, with trajectories and errors depending on players stats, body balance, wrong foot, then not only we can see even more logical scorelines but the same time, scoring a goal bring back the satisfying factor.

I think you're right to a degree. If we use pes 5 as an example, one of the main criticisms was that it was too hard to score, but that wasn't down to the keepers that were superhuman (like in fifa 16), it was just hard to break down teams and get chances on goal. There were also lot's of fouls.

The through balls in pes are really overpowered, so it's really easy to get opportunities on goal, the fact the keepers are terrible doesn't help, but I'd be satisfied with it being more difficult to get a chance on goal.

I also think having more bad first touches would do a lot to improve the game, and also reduce the end to end action.

 

[DuduBR9]

Nowadays 1-3 AI fouls per match are wrongly deemed to be 'enough'. They're not nearly enough to curb the unPESlike hack-and-slash frantic gameplay that multiplayers love so much.

If the game was calibrated to satisfy single-players who want fouls and free kicks, the multiplayers would scream long and loud.

What's annoyed me this year is all the summertime testers coming back saying 'refs are fixed now'. We knew at the time that they'd just played each other, but they were SO insistent that it was no longer a problem that it served to keep the fouls issue quiet until now. Now Konami present us with a fait accompli. Another year of no fouls and happy multiplayers, and another when the PES formula is watered down even more. I can still taste PES in the games we have now, but I'm increasingly having to use my imagination.

You'v said it all.

The community (MyClub players, who are the majority) is part of the problem. Once again I remind al of you about PES 2011 case.

Pes 2011 demo was the last PES that had a realistic fouls count per game. The arcade crowd cried about it and then Konami toned down the probabilities of fouls a lot.

Arcade lovers who love to play online dont want a game that forces them to defend with more caution and logic. They dont want a game that erros and risks are a great part of the gameplay experience, they must want to chase the ball and steal it as quick as possible, attack as quick as possible with just first time forward passes while the 1-2 button is held down as if was the end of the world and the last match of their lives, and these are the people that Konami want to please most.

Look at the way Konami produced playe against that German guy on the Dortmund vs Barcelona match. Its not mucb different to people we see online. On the other hand, there was another producer who played on a bit more realistic fashion.

The thing that all of us want is game that has erros/risks are a big part of the gameplay, a game that punish bad decision and not logical play style. Is that too much to ask, really ?

You want to play football over aggressively as if you are playing american handegg, ok, but bear in mind that you will not only open space and make your defenders panic, but you will also concede many fouls amd yellow cards.

You want to play the game like pinball just abusing first time passes even when players are not even facing each other ? Ok, thats your choice, but you will make easier for the opponent to intercept the ball as the passes wont be as accurate and ball will lose speed when pass os made in hard conditions.

You want to sprint and chase the non stop and, when you finally get the ball possession back you want to press 1-2 button in all your passes, keeping players to constantly sprinting ? Ok, but that will make the staminia bar goes down much more quickly, wich will affect players performance.

Konami have been making a game that doesn t involve ANY of these risks. People should be free to play whatever way they want to play, but that doesnt mean that the must reward ilogical way of playing the game.

All these talk about "dont be selfish, let people play the way they want", "the game must be enjoyable for everyone" only mean one thing: theres no risks/erros involved, no learning curve like any sport game should have.

 

[Kunio_Kun]

That's why ı don't play Pes Dubu.. Online is pure shit. Constant pressure all over the pitch ,ping-pong passing,end to end action football etc.

I asked asim about this for Pes 17 and he said wait for the demo..I don't think we'll get rid of this bullshit pressure abuse anytime soon.

 

[DuduBR9]

I found a video I made around the releae of PES 2016 sorry if it's deemed off topic these are exhibition and myclub games against the AI

https://youtu.be/i8Sl3fledLk

That video would serve as proof if people were moaning that there are no fouls, wich is not the case.

I honestly think your video highlights that problem even more. I only saw fouls from slide tackle, theres not a single foul after a missed standing tackle, wich was never the case in other PES games. Not to count that this is a compilation from different matchs.

The way CPU plays have a huge impact on fouls like Klashman said. Im playing ML as Santos and whenever I face Sao Paulo I got many many fouls due to how ridiculous agressive they are. But almost all fouls come from slide tackles, hardly any foul comes from a standing tackle.

 

[DuduBR9]

That's why ı don't play Pes Dubu.. Online is pure shit. Constant pressure all over the pitch ,ping-pong passing,end to end action football etc.

I asked asim about this for Pes 17 and he said wait for the demo..I don't think we'll get rid of this bullshit pressure abuse anytime soon.

We wont, unless we have a game more like Winning Eleven 9 in wich you could not hold down pressure button nont stop withoit conceding fouls. But that wont ever happen. MyClub players are the vast majority and they would t like it.

As someone suggested, Konami could at least please hardcore offline players by creating a realistic mode ou or adding some more adjustable settings. Maybe sliders ? I dont have patience for sliders, but if we will have that someday, I hope is more simple than the one that exist i Goliath (0-100 to any atribute is ridiculous).

 

[zeemeister]

Great post earlier Dudu

The game mustn't allow people to play WWE or 2-2-8 formations and and be invincible. PES 2016 is guilty of this along with overpowered counter attack. You could argue that this is what the masses want but Konami must be strong and put their ideas forward without worrying if they can attract more of the fifa crowd.

Regarding the tackles video. Doh I get standing fouls and shoulder barges as well but no time to make videos now. I hope we see more though the corners animation are truly pathetic on PES players dont claw and grapple or try to hold each other back like you will see in every match you will ever watch on TV. PES still has a long way to go before we can start talking about the foot all game to end all football games.

I remember one or other PES/fifa had shirt pull option. Or is this something I imagined. How is this not already a feature. If they can book you for diving the should add a deliberate foul system that should also be a highly professional already yellow card. Something for the 2018 suggestion box.


Off topic:
My boy was born at 33 weeks yesterday and him and mom are in hospital recovering. dad is not going to get to all this meaningless stuff now

 

[Deco]

Great post earlier Dudu

The game mustn't allow people to play WWE or 2-2-8 formations and and be invincible. PES 2016 is guilty of this along with overpowered counter attack. You could argue that this is what the masses want but Konami must be strong and put their ideas forward without worrying if they can attract more of the fifa crowd.

Regarding the tackles video. Doh I get standing fouls and shoulder barges as well but no time to make videos now. I hope we see more though the corners animation are truly pathetic on PES players dont claw and grapple or try to hold each other back like you will see in every match you will ever watch on TV. PES still has a long way to go before we can start talking about the foot all game to end all football games.

I remember one or other PES/fifa had shirt pull option. Or is this something I imagined. How is this not already a feature. If they can book you for diving the should add a deliberate foul system that should also be a highly professional already yellow card. Something for the 2018 suggestion box.


Off topic:
My boy was born at 33 weeks yesterday and him and mom are in hospital recovering. dad is not going to get to all this meaningless stuff now

Congratulations Zeemeister!

 

[h3li0]

just like the real game.

really need the demo now!!

Yeah because Barcelona don't suffer fouls at all with their passing game... Fouls are a problem no need for you guys to try and mask that. The same goes for flawless passing and same goal scoring from the AI as mentioned..

This year's game seem to have fixed the keepers, at least I terms of liability, and the pace of the game seems better, but let's testbin the demo the 2016 flaws to check if they are gone or not.

I will test the demo in some aspects that for me ruined the game online and offline. So I will start to test it by trying:
- r2 shots inside and outside the area
- lob through balls
- ping pong blind passing
- shooting with players that are bad at shooting with their strong and weak foot, to see if it's like 2016 were 90% of shoots go on goal or just a little wide.
- make slide tackles to check if they pass as much as last year.
- play the AI and watch the attacking Padron and goals to see if every team passes like barca and scores the same cheap goals
- check if stats like speed mean anything as in last year's game running with ball with Walcott or with matic was equal in speed. There is videos proving that in the treahd.

That "niggles" after a few time prevent me from enjoying the game, as scoring was soulless, and playing cpu was frustrating, and online due to through balls and same goals with r2

 

[superleeds1]

Many Congratutions Mate.

 

[RAMAXWY]

Great post earlier Dudu

The game mustn't allow people to play WWE or 2-2-8 formations and and be invincible. PES 2016 is guilty of this along with overpowered counter attack. You could argue that this is what the masses want but Konami must be strong and put their ideas forward without worrying if they can attract more of the fifa crowd.

Regarding the tackles video. Doh I get standing fouls and shoulder barges as well but no time to make videos now. I hope we see more though the corners animation are truly pathetic on PES players dont claw and grapple or try to hold each other back like you will see in every match you will ever watch on TV. PES still has a long way to go before we can start talking about the foot all game to end all football games.

I remember one or other PES/fifa had shirt pull option. Or is this something I imagined. How is this not already a feature. If they can book you for diving the should add a deliberate foul system that should also be a highly professional already yellow card. Something for the 2018 suggestion box.


Off topic:
My boy was born at 33 weeks yesterday and him and mom are in hospital recovering. dad is not going to get to all this meaningless stuff now

congrats man