PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Lami said:
WENB is hardly the biggest. And WENB getting invites and not us has absolutely nothing to do with being big. You gave the reason yourself, "Adam was a mod of wenb". Won't say any more.

They take on feedback that represents the views of a lot of people, not just one. For example, I'd collect information from here that represents all your views, not just my view. I haven't done this for a while though. There's also a bigger chance they take on a person's view if that person has a good social media following. These companies call them Social Media Influencers.
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Well, I have that impression that wenb is the biggest forum due to the fact that the average of posts per day is too much lol.

Its the same people talking. Maybe there arent a huge number of members, but they talk a lot. Lol

And you right, people with good social media influence like youtubers have (unfortunetly imo) more relevance on feedback than us mere mortals. :/

Banksy is right about feedback having a more negative infouence than positive. Konami original philosophy/view on their game is actually better than what most fans want.

A clear example of that was the PES 2011 demo wich had the right amount of fouls and even passing felt more free. Atter so many complaints they toned down the frequency of fouls, wich was something positive on the demo. The only valid complain was the amount of replays for every foul. But people who just sprint and chase the ball like crazy with a brainless overgressive defending style (like 99% of people online) want it to be changed, Konami attended to it wich was a big letdown for me.
 
Elja said:
Wow the mood in this thread changes quickly. Last time I checked many were praising the new videos, now we're talking about pes 2016 and adam bhatti again lol
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Lol..people are in bits because they think the cpu doesn't make tackles or fouls based on videos..

Honestly,even if the game was perfect,there would be comments like the keepers gloves are to big or said player has the wrong hairstyle..

Defo want to try the demo..but I'm satisfied with what I've seen.
 
DuduBR9 said:
Well, I have that impression that wenb is the biggest forum due to the fact that the average of posts per day is too much lol.

Its the same people talking. Maybe there arent a huge number of members, but they talk a lot. Lol

And you right, people with good social media influence like youtubers have (unfortunetly imo) more relevance on feedback than us mere mortals. :/

Banksy is right about feedback having a more negative infouence than positive. Konami original philosophy/view on their game is actually better than what most fans want.

A clear example of that was the PES 2011 demo wich had the right amount of fouls and even passing felt more free. Atter so many complaints they toned down the frequency of fouls, wich was something positive on the demo. The only valid complain was the amount of replays for every foul. But people who just sprint and chase the ball like crazy with a brainless overgressive defending style (like 99% of people online) want it to be changed, Konami attended to it wich was a big letdown for me.
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Thankyou..and as always good incisive posts.

Don't let people dampen your mood,I can see all the good.

Honestly I think a lot of people are going to be eating there words.
 
Lami said:
WENB is hardly the biggest. And WENB getting invites and not us has absolutely nothing to do with being big. You gave the reason yourself, "Adam was a mod of wenb". Won't say any more.

They take on feedback that represents the views of a lot of people, not just one. For example, I'd collect information from here that represents all your views, not just my view. I haven't done this for a while though. There's also a bigger chance they take on a person's view if that person has a good social media following. These companies call them Social Media Influencers.
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OR , if you remember this :
31eb4cb3_o.png


:D
 
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Banksy said:
Defo want to try the demo..but I'm satisfied with what I've seen.
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Thats cool. Me too.

why are posts like these then necessary?

Banksy said:
Lol..people are in bits because they think the cpu doesn't make tackles or fouls based on videos..

Honestly,even if the game was perfect,there would be comments like the keepers gloves are to big or said player has the wrong hairstyle..
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Is it such a pain for you if people dont share the same enthusiasm?
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Thats cool. Me too.

why are posts like these then necessary?



Is it such a pain for you if people dont share the same enthusiasm?
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No..always love reading the good or the bad..

You won't find anyone harder to please then me,and I love to take games to the limit(never stop looking at the finer details).

Just about seeing the bigger picture,and concrete facts.

Let's wait and see first,know ones tryed the game yet.
 
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Banksy said:
Thankyou..and as always good incisive posts.

Don't let people dampen your mood,I can see all the good.

Honestly I think a lot of people are going to be eating there words.
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some won't just out of pride others out of loyalty.

it's funny how people always complain that PES can't be a simulation compared to Goliath that has fouls and varied shots, yet those same people never mention that Goliath doesn't have specific player abilities(though the Goliath team still tries to convince us it does) unless you only count speed and strength, teams don't feel different, leagues difficulty feels exactly the same.
tactics do almost nothing.
almost everything that needs to be in the game to give it the simulation feel just isn't there.
in PES i feel that the difficulty of the La liga is on another level compared to the Eredivisie.
ofcourse its an issue when you wrongfully get tackled and it doesn't get called but how often in real life on the pitch do we also think we deserve a freekick and it doesn't get called by the ref?

every coach i played for will tell you that you just get on with the game untill you here the whistle.

in a sense Pes should be praised for this right? ultimate simulation :)) they even got that right.(who loves crying babies on the pitch because the whistle wasn't blown)

some should just honestly confess that they just don't like PES cause they miss all the bells and whistles Goliath has, cause its not a shame, its a matter of taste but trying to defend it by saying that its because its not a simulation, just because not all the fouls get called.

if simulation is really what you're looking for you'd be happy that PES even exists.
similar to those that love the NBA2k games. they have always had a lot more simulation then the NBAlive games.

Goliath has a lot of positives and they get mentioned a lot but it has never been a Simulation doesn't look like it will be this year either.

so in the simulation department David will be slaying Goliath again this year.

your choice will just depend on what you are looking for in a football game.:COOL:
 
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I can't believe we're defending the lack of fouls now (particularly against the CPU). It boggles the mind, honestly. It's constructive feedback and easily backed up with a few games' experience, it's not like people are trolling when they say that and making shit up. But, whatever.
 
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I'd like to answer on this cause there's a lot of bullshit in that post. :)

Why dont you put that into the PES vs FIFA thread instead of derailing this one?

EDIT:
Didnt mean Chris' one of course
 
Im watching the Dortmund vs Barcelona matcb again on a big sceen:

The game speed is insan there and it makes look like a PES 2016.2. Sad.

As you guys are talking about fouls, one problem I find is that players still have too much balance. I mean even when they are being pressured from behind by two players they dont lose balance, fall and get a free kick.

Put this video around 10:32. You will see Mascherano being literally gang raped by 3 or 4 Dortmund players, Mascherano only stumble, and ref doesnt call a BLATANT foul.

https://youtu.be/VksrCE7R8Zs

This kind of shit is so annoying because it leads to an unfair game that allows player to go so over aggressive the bal and steel it in dangerous places. This is one of the most annoying thing that happens in an online match.

In any PES of the past this would be foul
 
Banksy said:
Don't like the guy but I think he's done a good job..or maybe it's just the tech now and pes is finally starting to show some promise..

I really like pes16,so do many and those like me are veterans and people that loved pes on the ps2.

We can't all be wrong,and we all know are footie..

I just think your very pessamistic,and don't understand game development of games.You said yourself you only play football games,and I think you want something or your imagining it was so much better once.

Pes in the ps2 era was less about direct user input..it was a product of maths and bucked many things that games did and do now...Very clever coding and a lot of illusion.When I play those games now in many ways there just basic.
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I don't understand games development? Well yes if you mean how to code you're absolutely right.

But it's pretty obvious that a longer development cycle is beneficial to ALL games. But the reality is that publishers put pressure on developers, they work to tight deadlines, that's why day one patches are pretty much part of any new release.

And let's face it annual releases are not to benefit the consumer, it's to milk us out of full price every year. Most of the changes annually could be cheaper dlc, or even in a free patch. Look at pes as an example, the game is released without up to date squads, they provide an update at a later date, surely that shows they need more time right? But they want to release before Fifa to try and maximise sales.

With regards to your comment about how the earlier pes games worked on the ps2, you're quite right. But that was what gave more of a sense of player individuality. A better player with better passing stats would be capable of better passes when you pressed the pass button. With manual controls the type and quality of pass is reliant on the person playing's input on the controller.

The reason I'm negative is that I've seen a series I love go through a bad spell, and never really get close to hitting it's best. Pes 2017 looks to be an improvement on 2016, a game I must emphasise I've said is enjoyable. So I'll definitely get some enjoyment out of 2017, and I've not played it, so I can form my own opinion once I've actually got the game (demos don't always represent the final game as we know).

On a positive note I have seen some things which look positive, such as the replays which are terrible on 2016, far too close, and often you can't even see the ball. The pace looks to be more toned down too, the emphasis on players taking a first touch is obvious. They've also implemented day and night cycles in line with real time kick offs which is good as my master league is pretty much played in night time only, and I personally fnd playing in day time looks better.

Lastly the game looks better, we're getting a better implementation of option files etc, keepers are improved slightly, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the adaptive a.i works. I imagine it's something that will show itself the more you play.
 
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RAMAXWY said:
some won't just out of pride others out of loyalty.

it's funny how people always complain that PES can't be a simulation compared to Goliath that has fouls and varied shots, yet those same people never mention that Goliath doesn't have specific player abilities(though the Goliath team still tries to convince us it does) unless you only count speed and strength, teams don't feel different, leagues difficulty feels exactly the same.
tactics do almost nothing.
almost everything that needs to be in the game to give it the simulation feel just isn't there.
in PES i feel that the difficulty of the La liga is on another level compared to the Eredivisie.
ofcourse its an issue when you wrongfully get tackled and it doesn't get called but how often in real life on the pitch do we also think we deserve a freekick and it doesn't get called by the ref?

every coach i played for will tell you that you just get on with the game untill you here the whistle.

in a sense Pes should be praised for this right? ultimate simulation :)) they even got that right.(who loves crying babies on the pitch because the whistle wasn't blown)

some should just honestly confess that they just don't like PES cause they miss all the bells and whistles Goliath has, cause its not a shame, its a matter of taste but trying to defend it by saying that its because its not a simulation, just because not all the fouls get called.

if simulation is really what you're looking for you'd be happy that PES even exists.
similar to those that love the NBA2k games. they have always had a lot more simulation then the NBAlive games.

Goliath has a lot of positives and they get mentioned a lot but it has never been a Simulation doesn't look like it will be this year either.

so in the simulation department David will be slaying Goliath again this year.

your choice will just depend on what you are looking for in a football game.:COOL:
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Great post and like butter to read(I also love your sense of irony).

I'm not going to lie..I've enjoyed the Fifa engine over the years along side pes,but at heart it hasnt given me those moments pes did in its better days or what I really loved in Iss before that..

For all its miner flaws im finding something in pes16 that I loved in ISS that's so familiar,albeit done in a way that blends pes at its best and the direct control of ISS.

I also thought the initial release build of Fifa16 was brilliant but felt subsequent updates watered down what was in my opinion one of the best fifas made.That said for all that technical excellence,it's devoid of any kind of real balance or structure Interns of player identity and team differences.

Going back to pes16,I didn't feel I had lost much interms of variation or that the rather lenient refs,sloppy keeping at times seemed as bad as when I initially played it for three months.I always knew in my mind pes16 was going to be better after a years more finetuning and refinement.It didn't feel whole enough and I've already experienced a older football game I loved back in the day that was at a similar level to pes16 and just felt and played like a much more rounded game after a years more work.

If you build it they will come...the passing has also never done it for me in Fifa,I just prefer the feel of the ball in pes and the control I have of the game and dictating my own playing style.
 
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DuduBR9 said:
Im watching the Dortmund vs Barcelona matcb again on a big sceen:

The game speed is insan there and it makes look like a PES 2016.2. Sad.

As you guys are talking about fouls, one problem I find is that players still have too much balance. I mean even when they are being pressured from behind by two players they dont lose balance, fall and get a free kick.

Put this video around 10:32. You will see Mascherano being literally gang raped by 3 or 4 Dortmund players, Mascherano only stumble, and ref doesnt call a BLATANT foul.

https://youtu.be/VksrCE7R8Zs

This kind of shit is so annoying because it leads to an unfair game that allows player to go so over aggressive the bal and steel it in dangerous places. This is one of the most annoying thing that happens in an online match.

In any PES of the past this would be foul
Click to expand...
i agree, when i play vs a friend he starts to over abuse the aggressiveness of the game without being punished with fouls, i also feel ive had of pes 2016 with how players turn on a dime, unrealistic...
 
If anthing, the Brazil vs Germany match is only showing how absolutely important is fouls/refs.

I hardly see any player falling down after a normal stand tackle, in PES players only stumble at best, wich is rodiculous considering we are living an era football in wich diving to decieve the refs became a hobby for many players, including high level skilled players like Neymar.

Pressure from behind on a run should result on a falling/total balance lose, specialy on light weighted players like Neymar who also like to dive.

Normal

Standing standing tackles should also result on player goind down if the marker hits the foorest. In both situations the refs can call a foul.

But I dont see any of these situations happening on PES in a long time. It used to happen in PES5/WE9.
 
ramgamer said:
i agree, when i play vs a friend he starts to over abuse the aggressiveness of the game without being punished with fouls, i also feel ive had of pes 2016 with how players turn on a dime, unrealistic...
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These two things are major issues in PES 2016 wich is not realy fixed. But Im still confident that Pes 2017 will be much more enjoyable. At least thats what I hope for:

Demo is out on tuesday, just 2 more days to go:
 
I really respect Adam for what he's done for this game the last couple of years but I'm getting really tired of him 'selling' the game in every video now. If the game was really that good, he wouldn't even need to be there talking while people play it. Over and over and over again. Saying the same things. Trying to make us things that aren't there.

Talking about animations and how smooth they are when they look so very not-real. Specially the running and dribbling animations, look AWFUL.

Only TWO things stand out for me this year on the positive side: Goalkeepers and Graphics in Cinematics (NOT in gameplay camera). The rest is rubish.

I feel they put him there this year to emphasize the few changes they've done to the game and lie about things that aren't nowhere to be seen.

I truly hope I get proven wrong and have to eat my own words when the game comes out, but I've seen this movie before.
 
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Chuny said:
I truly hope I get proven wrong and have to eat my own words when the game comes out, but I've seen this movie before.
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I think anyone that hated 2016 isn't going to change their mind with 2017.

It's pretty much a safe bet to assume 2017 is going to be a slightly improved version of 2016. Anyone can see from the videos that there's not a night and day difference, so I doubt 2017 is going to suddenly convert people.

The common complaints of pes 5 were too many fouls and too hard to score. If they can ever bring that back into pes I'll be so happy.

I just hate the high scorelines, yes obviously it happens look at Barcelona today, or Liverpool vs Arsenal last week. But I miss the days where pes often had 0-0 scorelines.

Anyway not long until everyone on this forum will actually get their hands on the game (or demo rather) and we can see for ourselves.

If the master league is improved then I'll be happy with my purchase. The time cycles and adaptive a.i could really transform master league for me.
 
I didn't hate 2016. At all. I played it a lot. Then I got bored of many things and switched to FIFA and play that a lot too.

I usually play both games across the year. 4 or 5 months each.
I'm not gonna hate 2017 either. I always try to look at the positives and appreciate each for what they bring to the table. Usually for me, FIFA has more positives to appreciate though.

I get tired of PES animations and the same type of goals scored over and over again more quickly than I get tired of anything in FIFA.
 
This is a late reply to hitman and his statement that night matches are killing the immersion.
Can't believe you mean this.

If this is true you must have hated the early PES games (1 to 6).
I remember games were there were no full divisions, no real stadiums, no real kits, booths or balls, random day or night matches...

This to me is one of the major reasons people are not satisfied. People want everything on a plate nowadays.
Most people who idealise those early editions would not like them if they came out now.

I do agree when people complain about cheating ai or about the lack of fouls, but not about immersion.
 
pretty said:
I don't understand games development? Well yes if you mean how to code you're absolutely right.

But it's pretty obvious that a longer development cycle is beneficial to ALL games. But the reality is that publishers put pressure on developers, they work to tight deadlines, that's why day one patches are pretty much part of any new release.

And let's face it annual releases are not to benefit the consumer, it's to milk us out of full price every year. Most of the changes annually could be cheaper dlc, or even in a free patch. Look at pes as an example, the game is released without up to date squads, they provide an update at a later date, surely that shows they need more time right? But they want to release before Fifa to try and maximise sales.

With regards to your comment about how the earlier pes games worked on the ps2, you're quite right. But that was what gave more of a sense of player individuality. A better player with better passing stats would be capable of better passes when you pressed the pass button. With manual controls the type and quality of pass is reliant on the person playing's input on the controller.

The reason I'm negative is that I've seen a series I love go through a bad spell, and never really get close to hitting it's best. Pes 2017 looks to be an improvement on 2016, a game I must emphasise I've said is enjoyable. So I'll definitely get some enjoyment out of 2017, and I've not played it, so I can form my own opinion once I've actually got the game (demos don't always represent the final game as we know).

On a positive note I have seen some things which look positive, such as the replays which are terrible on 2016, far too close, and often you can't even see the ball. The pace looks to be more toned down too, the emphasis on players taking a first touch is obvious. They've also implemented day and night cycles in line with real time kick offs which is good as my master league is pretty much played in night time only, and I personally fnd playing in day time looks better.

Lastly the game looks better, we're getting a better implementation of option files etc, keepers are improved slightly, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the adaptive a.i works. I imagine it's something that will show itself the more you play.
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FairPlay Pretty and your a gentlemen..

I'm going to enjoy reading your thoughts over the next few weeks..
 
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Chuny said:
I didn't hate 2016. At all. I played it a lot. Then I got bored of many things and switched to FIFA and play that a lot too.
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Sorry even though I quoted you I didn't mean to imply that you personally hated 2016, it was more a general comment at anyone that hated 2016.

Banksy said:
FairPlay Perry and your a gentlemen..

I'm going to enjoy reading your thoughts over the next few weeks..
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Thanks, I think we can all agree that we're all looking forward to playing the demo next week. :)
 
gerd said:
This is a late reply to hitman and his statement that night matches are killing the immersion.
Can't believe you mean this.

If this is true you must have hated the early PES games (1 to 6).
I remember games were there were no full divisions, no real stadiums, no real kits, booths or balls, random day or night matches...

This to me is one of the major reasons people are not satisfied. People want everything on a plate nowadays.
Most people who idealise those early editions would not like them if they came out now.

I do agree when people complain about cheating ai or about the lack of fouls, but not about immersion.
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Except standards and competition have evolved, and changed. Not to mention that for a lot of us there, PES was it. Despite its lack of licenses it was the de facto football game in terms of gameplay. You can't really say that nowadays, can you? Well, you might be able to, but I sure as hell can't. And by nowadays I mean within the last decade. It's been that long. If PES was some God tier football game I'd imagine some (not all) would be a bit more forgiving.

I don't look at PES 2016 and go, "Gee wiz, lack of stadiums and divisions makes ML a bit of a bore, but it's ok because the gameplay is beyond amazing!" Personally I don't enjoy 2016 that much so it's not like I'm sacrificing much if I elect to play FIFA instead. I buy both anyway, so what do I care? Back in PES's pomp I'd still buy FIFA every year, but I'd play it for a few hours and return to PES because it was leaps and bounds better. When you let your gameplay slip people are less inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt in other areas of your game.
 
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How to represent the best of a football game (you can call it "simulation" but i don't like that term) is the representation of players, in stats term at first.

What Iss Pro Evo on PSX brings out was that at first, the first real revolution of footies games which been later be called "simulation" by the press.

The most important things to recreate a team sport game base are:

-Players global representation
-Strategy building and influence in-game
-Attack/Midfield/Defence balance
-Physicallity/Inertia

I perhaps forgot one or two criteria, but for me those are the most importants

Not having full licences or spray on F.K., league structure or whatever happen of the pitch as details still important to the immersion "like in reality/on TV", but not for the "instinctive" feeling while you're playing.
It's important, very important on 2016 to have things like that, but you can call a game "simulation" when you brings out those features. That's different things.
Fifa always been more complete with that, even in PS2 days, and was called arcady by everyone.

I don't compare to Goliath, i think both games have everything of that (well, not PES 2016 for the third criteria) but less or more pronounced.
It's a standard now, but the way those criteria are represented is what makes truely the game.

IA making faults and referee are very important, but at this stage i think people we seen playing PES 2017 aren't as good to push the AI to make faults that much, we don't want referee to gives card everywhere without any reason neither.
Obviously if you play without making real danger versus a well organised team like Barcelona on superstar, you'll see less call for a fault by game played.
 
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Watch Neymar's free kick today and remember that a game sponsoring him has no fouls for him to replicate this. Sad
 
shez said:
Watch Neymar's free kick today and remember that a game sponsoring him has no fouls for him to replicate this. Sad
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And he got the foul after getting a stand tackle.

Stand tackles hardly result in fouls in PES, it happens only after you double tap X.
 
PES 2017 will be amazing. Have a feeling that it will be the best PES in a long time. Complaining about not so much fouls won't change how good the game feels overall. There is clearly a lot of good than bad. Also the pace of the game is clearly based on who's playing, that's why videos look different, you guys keep changing your minds.
 
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