PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
- Start date
- Staff
- #3,993
Both games have different mechanics to create a 90 minutes compressed to 15 minutes with a decent scoreline.
PES does it with perfect passing and no fouls so that you'll always create opportunities, FIFA does it by making bigger spaces so that your passes don't need to be perfect and so that you can bypass the midfield quicker, with much more difficult defending too (to the point where it's unrealistically difficult when you're using world-class defenders, IMO).
It really is entirely a case of personal preference. There's no right or wrong answer.
They need to make it so that every game isn't 0-0 (and when FIFA 16 first launched that's what it was like - I loved it, frankly, but clearly lots of people didn't, and it got patched into what looks like a pre-release FIFA 17).
From a spectator's point of view: for the first time, I think the videos of the new PES look more like real football matches - the new FIFA, in comparison, looks end-to-end, with no midfield, and crap passes from world-class players, which looks bizarre a lot of the time.
However (and it's a big however)... I feel no reward from anything in PES 2016, because unless I'm on manual - and I won't play on manual against the CPU because they have such an unfair advantage that it's pointless IMO - it doesn't feel like it's "my" goal. The game has "let" me score, I've not directed it just right, and the game has "let" me pass the ball instead of lagging so much that I've ran into a defender (which is what it does when you're playing a better team).
If there was just a LITTLE BIT of pass error, and that "cheat" lag has improved (though you can still see it in some videos - as soon as a pass/shot power bar is above someone's head, I'll count the steps they take before they actually hit the ball, and I can see a little bit of lag), I'd be madly in love with the game.
If level 1 assist is improved, and I can restrict online matches so I only play people using the same assistance level (you can do that in FIFA, can you do it in PES?) - and if there's a CPU difficulty level that gives them a more realistic pass accuracy (I played as Bolton v Derby yesterday on 2016 and Derby had a 96% pass accuracy rate at full time)... I'll be madly in love with the game.
But it truly is all about personal preference. I only started playing PES again because the AI in FIFA got so boring, but once I become detached from the goals I score again, I'll switch back again... And I bet it's the same this year, because the core of both is the same as before (against the AI at least).
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Bulshit. I see U still angry for Konami because they didn't hire You
LOL yeah that's the reason
I listen to the pes team go on about how great pes17 is but visually I don't see it - bar keeper animations. Zero fouls is hugely worrying. Players still look awkward and have funny running styles. I guess we need the demo now to make our minds up.
Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
People have just become to fixated with over analysing pes and need to spend more time actually playing and enjoying it good and bad..
I would put a wager on there's a percentage of people that base there views on pes purely on the words of others and were put off 16 by minor niggles that were blown up into game breaking flaws,by those that flat at refuse to play more then one football game.
I just take the view up until pes16,pes just wasn't up to snuff and last year and more so this year we are seeing a game closer to what we all imagined back in the 90s..
We all know Fifa has been smashing it out of the park with physics,animation and presentation.Beyond cosmetics and presentation though,how much has Fifa really pushed the gameplay envelope because most of what they've brought to the table including 360 degree movement is just a rehash of what konamis kceot division was doing on the n64 ten years before hand.
The most ironic twist of it all is how people say they don't want pes to be like Fifa,yet prefer Fifa now and believe based purely on cosmetics that's it's a more realistic interpretation.
Both games pander to casuals and playing pes on assisted and complaining everything is just too accurate always makes me chuckle.
Just to much hypocrisy and double standards when football games are vastly superior now to what they were back in the day.
I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to realise pes now is more like the iss games by kceot then pes on the ps2,just like Fifa is now..and that's a good thing.
I would put a wager on there's a percentage of people that base there views on pes purely on the words of others and were put off 16 by minor niggles that were blown up into game breaking flaws,by those that flat at refuse to play more then one football game.
I just take the view up until pes16,pes just wasn't up to snuff and last year and more so this year we are seeing a game closer to what we all imagined back in the 90s..
We all know Fifa has been smashing it out of the park with physics,animation and presentation.Beyond cosmetics and presentation though,how much has Fifa really pushed the gameplay envelope because most of what they've brought to the table including 360 degree movement is just a rehash of what konamis kceot division was doing on the n64 ten years before hand.
The most ironic twist of it all is how people say they don't want pes to be like Fifa,yet prefer Fifa now and believe based purely on cosmetics that's it's a more realistic interpretation.
Both games pander to casuals and playing pes on assisted and complaining everything is just too accurate always makes me chuckle.
Just to much hypocrisy and double standards when football games are vastly superior now to what they were back in the day.
I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to realise pes now is more like the iss games by kceot then pes on the ps2,just like Fifa is now..and that's a good thing.
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I get each to their own but no fouls in a game of football and the AI shot variety amongst other things is hardly a minor niggle. Even the constant night games in ML and the inability to change it (not sure if it was patched out this year) just ruined the immersion. There were times playing the AI I might as well have put the controller down where my players would switch off, the AI cut inside and bottom corner goal again and again..this in my book is not minor
jammiedodger
Premier League
I am predominantly an online player, I do not find as much fun playing against the CPU AI so all the talk of no offsides and fouls does not really concern me but that is my own personal preference.
When playing against human opposition if there are no shortcuts to easy goals people will play how they would see or play in reality so there'll be a good amount of fouls and offsides. Also depending on the player their is so much variance in the way people play so you can get great satisfaction exploiting weaknesses. Obviously sometimes it is frustrating you play out of your skin for 90 minutes and then to lose to a last minute goal with their only shot on target but that is the fun of it.
When playing against human opposition if there are no shortcuts to easy goals people will play how they would see or play in reality so there'll be a good amount of fouls and offsides. Also depending on the player their is so much variance in the way people play so you can get great satisfaction exploiting weaknesses. Obviously sometimes it is frustrating you play out of your skin for 90 minutes and then to lose to a last minute goal with their only shot on target but that is the fun of it.
darkoj2007
Premier League
from all the videos I saw these days the only thing that bothers me is why everyone, again everyone try to play first touch passes??? every sport game ever produced will have faster game play if it is played that way. If someone tries to stop the ball and dictate slower tempo I think that phisicality will become more evident and maybe fouls by AI will become like in old pes games. from the first ever video of pes 2017 even on trailers they promote first touch football but who can play like that for whole match without mistakes in passes also the stamina of the players should drop quickly. konami should drop the percentage of succesful first time passes and game will shine again
Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
We all know you love the dribbling and running animations in Fifa,you've been rattling on about it for two years.
Saying pes16 has no fouls is total BS,so I'm calling you out on that one.
I'd say players seeming to switch off is partly human error,but a laboured,slow cursor sometimes is also a major contributing factor..it's something I've picked up on heavily and you can see it clearly addressed in 17 via the videos.I won't deny player reaction is too slow in 16 at times,but not all the time...Again massively improved in 17
Without going too off topic..I still think your judging a game that is not even close to where I think it will go this year and beyond.
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Well said.
shez
League 1
- 19 August 2005
Oh great the "it's only a game" argument has arrived.
Might as well stop discussing the game and enjoy no fouls arcade soccer multiballs.
- Staff
- #4,004
So all the big PES fans who are asking for fouls to be present in PES 2017 because there are none in 2016 (or if we're being pedantic, 0-1 per game or 2 at a maximum once in a blue moon, because the CPU is programmed to do everything perfectly, including tackles, and very very rarely mistime them, and certainly never tackle in anger, unless they're forced to do it by that derby team switch which is the only time I ever recall being "properly" fouled) are talking "total BS"?
Come on now.
blacksam22
League 1
- 13 May 2016
- Chelsea F.C.
I've noticed that too. Almost every player that played PES 17 decided to have tiki-taka. I saw one video in which guy was playing tiki-taka whole match and even when AI knew what is he going to play and got used to it, so he didn't had space to play the ball into the box, even then he didn't even tried to change his tactic and speed up a little. I would want to see video with different tactic, I don't know, less passes, faster game, trying to play in from the wings, shooting from distance/shooting a little ouside the box to see how it would look and work. In PES 16 shooting from distance was so easy. Also scoring after crossing the ball into the box.
I play PES 16 for few months and I think I've said it before here, but I will say it again - PES 16 didn't had too many fouls. In 10 seasons in ML I had like 0 penalties. Maybe after 15 seasons I've got one! When opponent is tackling, referee never stops the game, when I do it in the same way, it's always a foul or a yellow. They're never getting angry but when they do (it depends of the team, some are really agressive), they're killing my players by giving them an injury and still referee won't punish them with a yellow or a red card. They can foul my player 24737327 times and he won't stop the game. It's frustrating.
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aussiepesfan
Champions League
- 17 April 2002
yep.. youd think itd be as simple solution as to adding first time passing errors..thatd be great. itd be more realistic and as you say itd slow the game down, as youd need to first trap the ball in order to pass more accurately. Never really thought about stamina being affected by constant first time passing, but youre right...Anyways, for me, the 2 big areas that pes needs to work on is ERRORS (passing, shooting/with more variations, dribbling) and ANIMATIONS. Ive now watched both decent quality 'off screen' videos (these are better clips as they tend to show the game in a decent framerate) of both pes17 and fifa17, and although both have much to offer, both suffer from poor running animations. Interestingly, I asked my partner (who knows little about football, but watches it on TV because of me..) which game looks better or more precisely, which looks like a real game of soccer. So I showed her the better quality youtube clops of pes17 and fifa17, and she thinks pes17 looks better.. more realistic...smoother animation wise, but thinks both have funny-stiff kinda running animations. She thought fifa17 players looked too skinny.. "elongated and alienesque" were her exact words... She also thought the ball physics were much better on pes.. saying it hangs too long in the air in the fifa17 clips I showed her. ..
For me the big question is when will both games rework their engine in regards to running/movement animations?? So that they really do look like next gen games... Anyways, ill keep hoping, and in the meantime ill be impatiently waiting to get my hands on the demo... Hoping here in Australia we can dl it 12am Tuesday... NZ get it first don't they?? I remember downloading it from the online NZ psn store last year...
aussiepesfan
Champions League
- 17 April 2002
...silly questions (sure itll require a silly answer), but is this the biggest pes/we forum on the net???? When Konami or Adam say they are listening to the fans, who are they actually listening to, or getting the feedback from???
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
thats the question!!
by the looks of it konami gets the feedback from forums, surveys, play tester and twitter! thing is: that feedback isnt used much, at least i dont see any huge improvements after getting feedback! i got tired of filling out surveys or giving feedback over the past years...
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Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
No fouls though?...not enough by the cpu,but none?.
Must have a different game then..
Bit prickly aren't you Chris!..next your be saying I think pes16 is perfect..
I can see what needs addressing and I'm not in denial...unlike some I do play both games(and I stress both).
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DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
The Winning eleven blog is the biggest one. It already has like 11 threads of 50 pages each about PES 2017.
Its almost like a chat.
Also, Adam was a mod of wenb forum. No member here was invited to those PESDay events, but members from wenb forum got invitation.
Theoricallg they get feedback from the winning eleven blog forum, but I always doubt that feedback really makes a difference:
If they really got feedback translated into the game, PES 2016 shouldnt exist.
Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
Ffs,why are we talking about fouls in pes16 or a real lack of them by the cpu..
It's well documented and we all know this...
This is exactly what I'm mean,this totally unproductive cycle of constantly back tracking and the same folk spitting there venom about 16.
If it isn't keepers its defenders and on and on..
Bottom line some people are never going to be happy,because it's about more then pes.Its something fundamentally wrong in there life's..
Don't have a problem with critiquing,but some just take it too far and it's the same tired blanket statements without any real foundation.
It's well documented and we all know this...
This is exactly what I'm mean,this totally unproductive cycle of constantly back tracking and the same folk spitting there venom about 16.
If it isn't keepers its defenders and on and on..
Bottom line some people are never going to be happy,because it's about more then pes.Its something fundamentally wrong in there life's..
Don't have a problem with critiquing,but some just take it too far and it's the same tired blanket statements without any real foundation.
If you check here http://winningelevenblog.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
The very top thread is an official Konami feedback zone, that is actually monitored directly by Konami.
It makes sense considering staff that used to work on W.E.N.B now work directly for Konami, and even before that point were linked to certain people at Konami.
Ultimately the only feedback they'll take on board is the things that will result in more sales.
I remember years ago when people would complain about the length of peoples socks (I'm not joking), I doubt things like that would have been a priority.
What pes needs to go back to is a REAL emphasis on player id, Konami PR might do all the marketing talk in interviews but for me personally the player individuality was much more pronounced in the ps2 games. Certain players could pass the ball better, shoot better control the ball better etc. Now the players generally all feel the same.
If one of these games could honestly really get player individuality spot on it would make it much more exciting, all the games would be different because the players would play differently. Now though it really is like playing team A vs team B. Pes is better than Fifa in this regard but worse than the older games.
It doesn't make sense as consoles are more powerful so surely things should have improved or seen an "evolution" (ironic huh).
Can anyone honestly say that pes 2016 has more player id than the ps2 games? Even pes 6 on the 360 had it pronounced.
Honestly my opinion is that Konami (and EA) are just focusing on the cash cows, the pack opening online crap. In the ps2 days they had to strictly focus on the a.i and offline play. Look at gaming as a whole, everything is online and micro transaction focused. Look at the likes of GTA V, what are Rockstar focusing on? GTA online and shark cash cards. They've not even released one proper next gen game, we've had one remaster so far and nothing even announced. They've not even done single player dlc, let's face it offline players are an afterthought, that's why master league and career mode are what they are. There's so much they could do to make them really great.
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Dr Force
Golden Boot Winner
PES against AI is slowly ebbing away as an unpredictable and balanced game. 1v1 and online,played by those with a similar football game mentality, with similar settings and slower play is where football games shine.
PES is no exception! Anyone expecting a brilliant offline experience is (IMO) waiting for Konami to cater for the offline audience as it was when online gaming was not as popular around pes3,4 &5.......online, in 2016 is where the market it is (unfortunately) but Konami are still struggling to even get this right!
Despite some issues, I love the look of 17, in fact it looks quite a big step up from 16, which was ok for me.
PES is no exception! Anyone expecting a brilliant offline experience is (IMO) waiting for Konami to cater for the offline audience as it was when online gaming was not as popular around pes3,4 &5.......online, in 2016 is where the market it is (unfortunately) but Konami are still struggling to even get this right!
Despite some issues, I love the look of 17, in fact it looks quite a big step up from 16, which was ok for me.
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You're absolutely right. It's going to get to a point that I just stop buying both games each year and just focus on football manager. a game that still predominantly focuses on offline play and certainly is in a different league with regards to tactics, scouting etc....
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Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
Biggest mistake konami made was listening to the fans..it's caused more flip-flopping in the last 10 years then anything else.
It's not like they didn't know the keepers needed to be reworked,the ai better balanced,cursor switching needed more refinement,and the refs weren't adequate in 16..they run out of time simple!
The very said same coders are many of the forefathers of the template we see in footie games today,so they know how to make a football game.
Pes since 5/6 problems are related to a game that's never been fleshed out properly,they never created a descent base and the technology wasn't good enough to replicate where there vision of what pes should be or where they wanted to take it..Every game since 2008 has felt more then a little half baked.
It's more then obvious 16 isn't a finished or polished game..To many of the elements need a lot more finetuning and work.
FIFA is a great example of building on one base for 10 years..and even in 17 the base is the same.
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WENB is hardly the biggest. And WENB getting invites and not us has absolutely nothing to do with being big. You gave the reason yourself, "Adam was a mod of wenb". Won't say any more.
They take on feedback that represents the views of a lot of people, not just one. For example, I'd collect information from here that represents all your views, not just my view. I haven't done this for a while though. There's also a bigger chance they take on a person's view if that person has a good social media following. These companies call them Social Media Influencers.
The biggest surprise for me is Adam.
What I mean is he always clearly showed a bias towards pes, even when other members of w.e.n.b recognised fifa was better in certain regards. He clearly loved it, and now he's in a very good position to help shape the game, he could get his views across to the right people and make it great.
He's likely just turned into a yes man at Konami, and when he get's to try the game he probably just kisses arse and tell's them how great it is. I know deep down he can't love the latest games, the flaws are clear for all to see.
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Banksy
Banned
- 25 June 2014
Don't like the guy but I think he's done a good job..or maybe it's just the tech now and pes is finally starting to show some promise..
I really like pes16,so do many and those like me are veterans and people that loved pes on the ps2.
We can't all be wrong,and we all know are footie..
I just think your very pessamistic,and don't understand game development of games.You said yourself you only play football games,and I think you want something or your imagining it was so much better once.
Pes in the ps2 era was less about direct user input..it was a product of maths and bucked many things that games did and do now...Very clever coding and a lot of illusion.When I play those games now in many ways there just basic.
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rockstrongo
Retired Footballer
Not comparing here,OK!
But what PES 17 needs,is a stop and go game.
Played some other game (you know which one)
And it's a huge difference,that's how a footy game should be,again,not comparing,since there's tons of other issues with "other game"
Don't care about positioning,and all players playing correctly,aka sim.
But having a game that just flows,without Fk,or very few,that's just a miss.
Love PES,don't get me wrong,but that HAS TO CHANGE!
F---- Period!
But what PES 17 needs,is a stop and go game.
Played some other game (you know which one)
And it's a huge difference,that's how a footy game should be,again,not comparing,since there's tons of other issues with "other game"
Don't care about positioning,and all players playing correctly,aka sim.
But having a game that just flows,without Fk,or very few,that's just a miss.
Love PES,don't get me wrong,but that HAS TO CHANGE!
F---- Period!
Elja
How's it guys?
- 11 October 2015
Wow the mood in this thread changes quickly. Last time I checked many were praising the new videos, now we're talking about pes 2016 and adam bhatti again lol