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PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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When was the last time PES had a completely new engine? I think even PES2013 has some of the DNA of the old ISS games from back in the PS1 era. Some say PES3 was a new engine but to me that was a refinement of what had gone before (and a very good one at that). We've clearly not had one on this generation of hardware.

The fact that Konami are talking of a new engine is exciting in itself. I'm not sure why some want to be negative about it. Sure, be cautiously optimistic (as I am), but this year I'm genuinely intrigued by what PES has to offer and that's not something I've felt for many years.
 
I'm carelessly optimistic about PES 2014. I'm going all in with my hope. Physics driven gameplay, nothing can go wrong!
 
Lami said:
It's not a "same old story". We never had a new engine before. Now we do. We don't know how this new one operates so how can we judge anything yet?
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We can judge the past years.

ElvisSs said:
Wrong! Obviously you didn't understand a thing from the article in the EDGE magazine. PES is having a NEW and by NEW you have to understand, that it is completely and absolutely NEW! Even Kojima himself stated in the magazine, that the developers had some problems at first with the NEW engine, but now they are doing well.
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I didnt even read it lol. Even so, the engine can be NEW, the rest isnt. Just cant get all the hype, year after year, for PES or FIFA. Few months later after release...you know the cycle. :FISH:
 
Was just cleaning up my hard drive and found a copy of the 2013 demo with all the teams unlocked installed, just played the full version then the demo. The difference between the two is actually quite ridiculous. From the pace of the game to the way the computer attacks, hopefully whoever is in charge of authorising these changes has been sacked....on the plus side though I have a football game to play, if you anyone still has it installed and is missing a good footy game, try loading it up.
Old engine new engine, they have the capabilities to make a good football game, it's more about who they decide to make the game for that worries me, because based on the last few years and the difference between demos and full games, this is a issue that's equally serious, it's like they have the right vision and then change thier minds at the last minute, whoever they're listening to, they need to stop.
 
fernadez said:
Was just cleaning up my hard drive and found a copy of the 2013 demo with all the teams unlocked installed, just played the full version then the demo. The difference between the two is actually quite ridiculous. From the pace of the game to the way the computer attacks, hopefully whoever is in charge of authorising these changes has been sacked....on the plus side though I have a football game to play, if you anyone still has it installed and is missing a good footy game, try loading it up.
Old engine new engine, they have the capabilities to make a good football game, it's more about who they decide to make the game for that worries me, because based on the last few years and the difference between demos and full games, this is a issue that's equally serious, it's like they have the right vision and then change thier minds at the last minute, whoever they're listening to, they need to stop.
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exhibition mode (such as the demo is) has always been better and more free than competition/master league/cup mode
you can see the difference in final code too
i honestly don't think there is a noticeable difference between demo and full game
 
From a programmer's perspective, I'd say a new engine is far easier to work with and bring up to a higher level than modifying an old one.

I do some C++ at uni, and when I'm given a project to do where I'm given the skeleton of an existing program, which contains bugs and/or an incomplete list of features, it can be difficult to identify and resolve issues due to the need to observe and understand all of the current processes and interactions at work. A good programmer will leave a decent set of notes in the code, but it's still difficult to fully get within the mind of another programmer unless it's a joint project with very good communication (it's hard to even remember your own code if it was done a while ago, years in the case of the PES series).

It's easier to make a higher quality program when given nothing but a few instructions (i.e "make this, include these features") and good resources. It's more time consuming though, and given the strict yearly cycle of football game releases, that cannot happen each year.
 
Dude, I mean this in the nicest possible way but you are talking some absolute poppycock, we've been crying out for a new engine for years and you think it'll be the same old shit from Konami

*double facepalm*
 
Simcut said:
Dude, I mean this in the nicest possible way but you are talking some absolute poppycock, we've been crying out for a new engine for years and you think it'll be the same old shit from Konami

*double facepalm*
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Yeah, i really do. Im sorry, i didnt pay for the hype train ticket, but good voyage! :BYE:

And keep the facepalm for you, i believe you will need it sooner than you think.
 
azur said:
Yeah, i really do. Im sorry, i didnt pay for the hype train ticket, but good voyage! :BYE:

And keep the facepalm for you, i believe you will need it sooner than you think.
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hype train ticket? oh come on, this isnt with the same old engine that we've had since the beginning of time, it's a brand new one :/
 
Lami said:
You don't have to. But at least give this new born engine a chance is all :)
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Fair enough. The thing is, im (and i believe a few others too) a bit pessimist for what is coming and we get arguments like "Hello, wake up, its a new engine!!" like i was unaware or a newbie arround here. I really want a great football game, a hardcore one, either delivered by Konami or EA.
 
Lami said:
And the same team made the PS2 games we all love did they not? ;)
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The dev team for PS2 titles and the one for PS3/360 versions aren't exactly the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read some time ago that EA signed some key programmers from Konami, around 2005. That could be a reason for the quality downfall which PES 2008 was.
 
I remember that rumor but it was never confirmed though.

Also according to Edge, from what I've gathered, the team working on the new engine is youthful, which from what I think means mostly new?

Tbh though, new team or not, I want the solid proper next-gen game I've been waiting for since the beginning of this gen. PES 2010-2013 I enjoyed (also like 2008's shooting. Don't shoot me though), but never as much as the PS2 ones. If it takes a new engine to put them back on glory track, then so be it. I'll be waiting.
 
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Some intriguing aspects to that EDGE article.

Positives- sounds like visuals should look good and can be completed in a much shorter time due to the engine tools.
- having differing zones for tactics could be more helpful in setting up realistic tactics for the AI and for player controlled team than trying to set up the whole team AI to function as one cohesive unit.

From the sounds of things, I'm not sure how far they are willing to push the control scheme and whether they have the balls to really innovate. If the engine allows the physics to drive things, I'd love to see more sim aspects during gameplay.

Control scheme aside, if the ball is a separate entity and the barycentre physics are married up with a good collection of animations, then I'm hoping this translates to more varied shot trajectories, collisions, challeneges on the ground and in the air etc. I'd also love to be able to challenge a keeper on a 50-50 ball. At the moment, it's so scripted that you can see your player get pulled back in order for the keeper to claim a ball. I'd love that to be something I can chase down all the way and even slide tackle the keeper if I want.

Also, it sounds like EDGE visited them in late January so hopefully they're further down the track with the game now.

Let's hope for a new commentary team too!
 
I remember being really excited about the idea of gaming adopting more physics-driven animation around the time of GTA IV using NaturalMotion's Euphoria engine, here's a demo vid:

YouTube - Gamehelper.com - Euphoria Demo - Dev Tools

The execution of that tech in GTA IV was, albeit functional, quite a disappointment compared to what I'd hoped for. Most of the game was still driven by canned animations, and when the "euphoria" stuff did get activated, it never really added much to the gameplay.
GTA IV was released almost 5 years ago though - in the infancy of this generation, I suspect much more can be done these days and it will be much more refined in GTA V.

I never played the game "Backbreaker", but it used the same tech in an American Football game, looking at videos it does look quite impressive:

YouTube - Backbreaker: Fun with Physics

What Konami seem to be hinting at is something along the same lines as this system - animations/gameplay driven mostly by physics + behaviours. That is revolutionary if pulled off properly.
 
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One thing to consider: collisions and impact engine won't reach it's true potential unless Konami allows violent fouls.
 
xavi2009 said:
One thing to consider: collisions and impact engine won't reach it's true potential unless Konami allows violent fouls.
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Well that red card Nani got vs Real Madrid the other week was just him copying the karate kick shooting animation from PES 2013 :WORSHIP:

Seriously though - what do you mean specifically?
 
The engine being new is great and all but tbh I remain skeptical until I play the demo and even then they might still find a way to fuck things up when it comes to the retail version.
I've been disappointed so much by the game since the birth of the xbox360/ps3 era that I'm extremely cautious from now.The animations and collisions will more than likely look better and more impressive but that isn't enough anymore
 
It's silly when people are having a go at people for being pessimistic about what will be produced.

It's great what is being said and hopefully it is all implemented well, but there has been let down after let down for people this current Gen with PES.

If everything they say works great then it sounds like it could be a great game....BUT the percentage of things that actually come out of the other side of the rhetoric and propaganda is another thing (Not just with PES but with games in general).

For instance PES 13 was supposed to have much improved goalkeepers etc etc but it didn't really pan out like that? (Although it is a much better game).

I hope they get it right, so I will be keeping my fingers crossed. But I also remain sceptical on what will actually be produced.

It does sound good though :DD
 
Isn't it silly though judging a completely new engine when we've seen nothing of it?

The let down after let down was also on that old engine which had limitations. Maybe the much improved GKs we wanted didn't see the light because of these limitations as well.

I'm also skeptical regarding this though. A new engine doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's the engine (tools provided) plus the devs (plus time and money obviously). Although the guys behind PS3/360 versions weren't very successful, they did have a successful stint on the PS2 with the old engine, which means they can produce. They also admitted mistakes plus old engine limitations and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

If all these guys had was a crappy past with no success whatsoever then I'd be very pessimistic. Now, if they somehow manage to fail with this one, then they need to be replaced imo. But I'll wait and like I said they're having the benefit of the doubt from me.
 
I don't think they are judging the engine, just the people that are in charge of implementing the engine into the game and making all the surrounding parts of the game fit with it.

They have a great record before this gen, but for the last 6 or so years their Rep has declined, this has been through not making very good games and shouting about improvements that didn't really come true (Imo opinion obviously)

It all has the potential to be great and I hope they succeed, but it also has the potential to promise so much and not deliver.

It's things like the faces being photo realistic that is great, but when you don't have licenses for lots of teams then what will the faces look like that are not licensed? I guess it is much easier to generate random computer generated (as in not photo realistic) faces that look different to photo realistic ones (Where do they get all of the other faces from?)

Of course for those that can mod their game it won't be a problem as they can make faces (Although they will probably take up a lot of disc space etc)

This is going off topic on the engine, but it was just to highlight that even so what they say sounds fantastic, things can come out quite differently which it has done really on this Gen for the PES series as a whole.

Anyway, my point is that I understand that people can be excited about it and I can also definitely understand people being pessimistic and sceptical.
 
Lami said:
Isn't it silly though judging a completely new engine when we've seen nothing of it?

The let down after let down was also on that old engine which had limitations. Maybe the much improved GKs we wanted didn't see the light because of these limitations as well.

I'm also skeptical regarding this though. A new engine doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's the engine (tools provided) plus the devs (plus time and money obviously). Although the guys behind PS3/360 versions weren't very successful, they did have a successful stint on the PS2 with the old engine, which means they can produce. They also admitted mistakes plus old engine limitations and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

If all these guys had was a crappy past with no success whatsoever then I'd be very pessimistic. Now, if they somehow manage to fail with this one, then they need to be replaced imo. But I'll wait and like I said they're having the benefit of the doubt from me.
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In fact, that Backbreaker game with awesome body physics is an awful game. A new engine doesn't necesarly guarantee sucess as you said. :))
 
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