PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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zeemeister said:
Think of what happened on the PS2 and PES5 I think it was. In certain stadia the crowd would cause the game to lag-what did Koanmi do? They removed the crowds so that there is less happening on the screen. That is an indication of a limited engine. Who is to say that it was this that also led to the infamous Konami Blackhole. Also the old engine seemed to be more resource heavy
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Was thinking of that as well. I remember all the stuttering on my PS2 when playing PES 5 when it was fully crowded. But then again I had patched my PS2 games like crazy with no stutters, adding chants, Fifa commentary, better/realistic pitches, kits, faces, balls, stadiums (I think?), etc. So I'm kinda unsure why the PES team cannot do that? Just like we patch and throw the game into our PS2s/PS3s and works like a charm, why not them? If it's engine related, we're still patching and playing on these consoles are we not? I think they're better off hiring these patchers since they have a UK office now.
 
Lami said:
Was thinking of that as well. I remember all the stuttering on my PS2 when playing PES 5 when it was fully crowded. But then again I had patched my PS2 games like crazy with no stutters, adding chants, Fifa commentary, better/realistic pitches, kits, faces, balls, stadiums (I think?), etc. So I'm kinda unsure why the PES team cannot do that? Just like we patch and throw the game into our PS2s/PS3s and works like a charm, why not them? If it's engine related, we're still patching and playing on these consoles are we not? I think they're better off hiring these patchers since they have a UK office now.
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Completely agree. I'm sure this is a cultural thing, not least a language issue too. I just can't see a Japanese developer like Konami hiring from the community. I'm not sure how that would fit with their ethos.

There are many examples of pc modders being hired by software developers. It makes a lot of sense, particularly with a game like PES which is lucky to have such a talented modding community. Perhaps Konami will open up to this avenue with their London studio? Who knows, but we routinely see modders enhance and improve PES, often simple things which Konami should be capable of improving themselves.

Also I really hope PES2014 opens up more to editing/modding. It's ridiculous that we still have limits on created teams and emblems, and a limit on created stadia.

The only limit should be the space on my hard drive.
 
AntrAcsA said:
@zeemeister , I understand you completely, mate! There must be a reason for the failure of Konami all these years. Engine is the most convenient target to attack this is the best target because the problem is easily corrected, just change it. Trouble is assuming that the problem is outside engine, if the problem is in the team, then it is bad, then the future looks quite scary and uncertain. Right !? Should be engine, all of us pray this to be the reason, Konami what that.

Many people believe so strongly that there is a problem ,in the engine, they refuse to accept that much of a problems in PES did not come from him. But again, I understand each of you, understand each argument, and you are right in some or other way.
The new engine most positive thing that happens to us since 2007th, it is normal to be optimistic, but still it is normal to have people who are on the opposite , because both sides have strong reasons for that .
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I disagree. The limitations of the engine are there and they are easily spotted, PES this gen in some ways is similar to FIFA's 2008-2010 games for PC. EA used the same engine like in PS2, but updated to some extent and all the problems from the PS2 era were present in those games, just like in Pro Evo. People have to understand the value of such a game engine and what it means for a game developer. A quick example, Pro Evo's old engine till 2013 is somewhat like Microsoft Paint and now KONAMI have upgraded to Adobe Photoshop, do you see where I'm going with this?

Having the right people working on a project like Pro Evolution Soccer is key, but having the tools for achieving the goals is as important as that.

From all the news we have heard so far, I'm really optimistic and I can't see how people can't be as optimistic as I am. If you think PES 2014 will be a massive and utter failure, why do you still talk about it. I'm a fan and as such I'll always be optimistic for the game and it's future, because I have fallen in love with the game long time ago and it is a massive part of my life now.
 
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Agreed not having enough slots for something like logos is ludicrous. We wait with bated breath. They used to have issues with sound as well till they allowed the Chants to be created by the community and added with the only limitation being the size of the HDD. Why would they not do the same with Logos. And for gods sake bring back short socks!!
 
Short socks, winter collar/neck warmer, snow, differents kinds of angle tape, customizable keepers gloves/players gloves, Messi's XL shirt..that would be a good start
 
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ElvisSs said:
A quick example, Pro Evo's old engine till 2013 is somewhat like Microsoft Paint and now KONAMI have upgraded to Adobe Photoshop, do you see where I'm going with this?
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If you noob and can't draw with paint, you will be noob and still will can not draw even with Photoshop.

ElvisSs said:
Having the right people working on a project like Pro Evolution Soccer is key, but having the tools for achieving the goals is as important as that.
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That is doubtful! Are they have talented and the right people at Konami?
Last 6 years have shown the opposite. Next engine give us hope but nothing more .
 
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AntrAcsA said:
If you noob and can't draw with paint, you will be noob and still will can not draw even with Photoshop.


That is doubtful! Are they have talented and the right people at Konami?
Last 6 years have shown the opposite. Next engine give us hope but nothing more .
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Not even slightly related to my post, go and read again.
 
Make it on Unreal Engine 4, Cryengine 10 or NASA super computer - it dosent matter, its just a jacket, let me see the tits of this game.

If they can get football AI working and provide us with tools to edit the game - I will buy it.

Either way PES 2014 will be something new for a change.
 
Tunizizou said:
with the word "photorealistic" , i can imagine faces like that :

YouTube - Agisoft Photoscan 4D Videogrammetry
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Faces yes, expressions no, at least not for PES 2014. We know that the Phantom Pain footage is believed to be running on current gen and with the info from EDGE, telling us that what they've seen in Tokyo was indeed running on the PS3, we can assume great things for the FOX engine.

I just can't stop thinking about one thing, if we're getting this kind of tech for the current gen of consoles, how will they step up, when the NG of consoles are out, PES 2015. So many questions are waiting to be answered and and the announcement of the game seems to be too far atm... I just can't wait!
 
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After smashing up my pad and selling my PS3, due to the disappointment and frustration of pes 2013, I might be tempted back by this. It depends upon a lot of things though.
 
Enzo said:
Make it on Unreal Engine 4, Cryengine 10 or NASA super computer - it dosent matter, its just a jacket, let me see the tits of this game.

If they can get football AI working and provide us with tools to edit the game - I will buy it.

Either way PES 2014 will be something new for a change.
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Actually, the engine are the tits themselves. We just don't know much about how they look, and nothing about how they feel :LOL:
 
I'm really hoping for another developer to get in on the act as the new consoles launch. That certainly would be refreshing and very interesting. I genuinely feel it would be a real waste if no-one else joins the party.

Whilst I am interested in what Konami and EA have to offer. I can't (for the life of me) help but think it's going to be another rehash next gen - you know the gimmicks/ pr tosh we hear year in year out without any real substance.
I know it's new tech, but I don't quite believe in the team that develops PES anymore; I don't believe they are going to produce a masterpiece after six years of below average games and silly decisions making regardless of a limited engine or not.

Nevertheless, I think its going to interesting to see what unfolds and to see how exactly Konami implement the features they have spoken about in the recent EDGE article.
 
stephen said:
Whilst I am interested in what Konami and EA have to offer. I can't (for the life of me) help but think it's going to be another rehash next gen - you know the gimmicks/ pr tosh we hear year in year out without any real substance.
I know it's new tech, but I don't quite believe in the team that develops PES anymore; I don't believe they are going to produce a masterpiece after six years of below average games and silly decisions making regardless of a limited engine or not.
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I think there'll be nothing but gimmicks from EA, if anything next gen FIFA will most likely end up full of micro transactions and will have most of the emphasis placed upon that Ultimate Team nonsense. In contrast Konami seem to be focusing on stuff like game physics which should hopefully provide something entirely different. In fact Konami's seeming naivety is quite refreshing in this day and age, particularly when you compare them to EA.
 
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It would be great to see another games developer make a footy game, but it will be a hard task to get to the standard of PES/Fifa even with their limitations.

Also I really don't get why people keep saying Fifa will spend more time on things like Ultimate team etc. This generation they have made many more improvements to their gameplay than PES has imo (Maybe they have needed to, but still). Just because they are adding other modes, doesn't mean they are neglecting the gameplay side of things, as recent history suggests otherwise.

I just wanted to add that because it annoys me when people keep saying things like this. I don't want to get into a PES/Fifa thing. :DD
 
BobbyBox said:
It would be great to see another games developer make a footy game, but it will be a hard task to get to the standard of PES/Fifa even with their limitations.

Also I really don't get why people keep saying Fifa will spend more time on things like Ultimate team etc. This generation they have made many more improvements to their gameplay than PES has imo (Maybe they have needed to, but still). Just because they are adding other modes, doesn't mean they are neglecting the gameplay side of things, as recent history suggests otherwise.

I just wanted to add that because it annoys me when people keep saying things like this. I don't want to get into a PES/Fifa thing. :DD
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I hope for gods sake we do see football game on the horizon from another developer. I don't think we should in all our hope on the current crop. It would be wasted opportunity in my opinion, as I think both current companies are their for the taking if someone can pull something out of the bag.

Agreed, EA have made more improvements this gen over pes for sure; but that's not too difficult considering the state of pes. And it's still lacking massively in the game play department in my opinion. EA seem to have stagnated regarding their game play with recent additions - fifa 12/13. I still think fifa 11 had the best football game play of this gen(for me)and it still didn't come close to pes of old.
 
stephen said:
I hope for gods sake we do see football game on the horizon from another developer. I don't think we should in all our hope on the current crop. It would be wasted opportunity in my opinion, as I think both current companies are their for the taking if someone can pull something out of the bag.

Agreed, EA have made more improvements this gen over pes for sure; but that's not too difficult considering the state of pes. And it's still lacking massively in the game play department in my opinion. EA seem to have stagnated regarding their game play with recent additions - fifa 12/13. I still think fifa 11 had the best football game play of this gen(for me)and it still didn't come close to pes of old.
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I agree with most of that.

For a new developer to come in and do well though will be tough, you need to invest LOTS of money and for the first few years your market share against PES and Fifa would be really low and you would lose a lot of money. It would take time to establish, it would take a very wealthy, talented and passionate developer to want to take on the task imo.
 
BobbyBox said:
It would be great to see another games developer make a footy game, but it will be a hard task to get to the standard of PES/Fifa even with their limitations.

Also I really don't get why people keep saying Fifa will spend more time on things like Ultimate team etc. This generation they have made many more improvements to their gameplay than PES has imo (Maybe they have needed to, but still). Just because they are adding other modes, doesn't mean they are neglecting the gameplay side of things, as recent history suggests otherwise.

I just wanted to add that because it annoys me when people keep saying things like this. I don't want to get into a PES/Fifa thing. :DD
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It's all a matter of opinion of course, but I really don't agree regarding this current generation. Think that FIFA took a giant leap forward with FIFAs 2008-10 then has really regressed. I personally can't stand FIFA13, I think all the good work EA did was totally undone in one game.

Konami on the other hand have steadily improved. Compare PES2013 to PES2008 and the difference is incredible. It had massive collision detection problems and they screwed up game modes etc but the core mechanics such as first touch, player weight, body position on the ball etc is far better than FIFA have managed. But that's another debate entirely.

As for EA and Ultimate Team, well, it's now EA's most profitable DLC by a mile. I've noticed a gradual emphasis on pushing this mode as it generates extra income and is highly successful at it, so I can only see this emphasis increasing.

Back to PES2014 though, and it's entirely refreshing that Konami are merely discussing game mechanics, and ones that are essential for modern football games. Given that EA's game has barely any tangible player physics going on at all, and there's no Konami marketing ploy as yet for extra modes etc you have to pay for in addition to the game itself, then Konami seem to be quite a refreshing change at the moment.

In short, I'm intrigued and excited by what Konami can come up with, whereas I have nothing but trepidation for FIFA14. I'm expecting another marginal FIFA upgrade with more emphasis on opening our wallets for additional content.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
It's all a matter of opinion of course, but I really don't agree regarding this current generation. Think that FIFA took a giant leap forward with FIFAs 2008-10 then has really regressed. I personally can't stand FIFA13, I think all the good work EA did was totally undone in one game.

Konami on the other hand have steadily improved. Compare PES2013 to PES2008 and the difference is incredible. It had massive collision detection problems and they screwed up game modes etc but the core mechanics such as first touch, player weight, body position on the ball etc is far better than FIFA have managed. But that's another debate entirely.

As for EA and Ultimate Team, well, it's now EA's most profitable DLC by a mile. I've noticed a gradual emphasis on pushing this mode as it generates extra income and is highly successful at it, so I can only see this emphasis increasing.

Back to PES2014 though, and it's entirely refreshing that Konami are merely discussing game mechanics, and ones that are essential for modern football games. Given that EA's game has barely any tangible player physics going on at all, and there's no Konami marketing ploy as yet for extra modes etc you have to pay for in addition to the game itself, then Konami seem to be quite a refreshing change at the moment.

In short, I'm intrigued and excited by what Konami can come up with, whereas I have nothing but trepidation for FIFA14. I'm expecting another marginal FIFA upgrade with more emphasis on opening our wallets for additional content.
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Fair enough, no point turning it into a PES/Fifa thing so I will just say that I hope PES lives up to what it is promising and it will be great :))
 
Football games suffer massively from lack of compitition and originality as any new developer needs to spend big on licences to join in.

On the PS2 Gran Turismo was the biggest racing game. On the PS3, it stood still and because others were able to bring out new games it ended up looking stale and dated.

With football titles new developers cannot enter the market as easily so football gaming has not moved forward as it never had anything like the Race Driver Grid game giving it much needed kick in a new direction
 
Yeah EAs fire fizzled out after 2010 Imo they just couldn't take it up a gear and quite frankly didn't need to.

If konami is running on old engines why should they bother
 
What things would you like to see in ML for PES 2014?

I have a ton of things.

- A more realistic schedule, just copy what each league does in real life. No more of Internationals on Friday and then a game on Sunday.
- Every league to have a second division.
- Be able to move teams.
- International Management.
- No more old players becoming youth players. Just have a random name generator and create players. If I am playing for a team in England, let most of my youth players be English.
- Transfers, They need to add a hidden rivalry or loyalty stat and reputation for a team and league. Someone who is playing CL football won't want to move to a team not playing it unless they offer a huge amounts of money. Everton will be reluctant and ask for more money from Liverpool if the reds are interested in a transfer. A captain or someone who has played for that team his whole career (Totti, Puyol, Gerrard) will be less likely to move away from his team, and will outright reject moving to a rival.
- Contracts, with player roles and no more of scouts doing the negotiations. Players demanding more money if they are outperforming their contract.
- Realistic fixture settings. midweek games at night, cup games being held at realistic times and a teams home ground, not a neutral site.
- The national Supercups
- REALISTIC PLAYER GROWTH! Too many players fulfill their potential and too many have a potential that is too high.
- Realistic form depending on the last 5 or 3 games. No more arrows. This would require a better rating system.
- Managers in each team with different personalities and ideas of how to play football. That way you get teams with identities.
- Matchday atmosphere. If you play with Wigan, a half empty stadium until you make it big would be great. But if you play with Chelsea, even when they struggle, the crowd should be very big. Better chants and relevant commentary to your current ordeals.
 
BobbyBox said:
I agree with most of that.

For a new developer to come in and do well though will be tough, you need to invest LOTS of money and for the first few years your market share against PES and Fifa would be really low and you would lose a lot of money. It would take time to establish, it would take a very wealthy, talented and passionate developer to want to take on the task imo.
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Wishful thinking I suppose.
For now though, I just hope Konami nail it with the new engine implementing something new truly spectacular.

Also, I have recently purchased pes 6 on pc and need advice on how to patch it from scratch - I require some guide instructions, if their available. I am interested in the shollym patch as well - any idea where to download this from. If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated. Cheers!
 
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