PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Ameppe said:
In fact, that Backbreaker game with awesome body physics is an awful game. A new engine doesn't necesarly guarantee sucess as you said. :))
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I see where you're coming from, a new engine is the most promising start we could have right now for the series but behind it all are Konami and their downright bizarre design choices. We all know that for every one good idea they'll remove another two. I'm guessing sometimes this is down to technical reasons, other times not.

It can be the best engine in the world but if Konami cut corners then it'll be for nothing. Like how they had sound designers thinking it's a top idea to cram ten people into a cupboard and sing Man Utd songs that Man Utd don't even sing, well then it'll have it's work cut out.

Which reminds me, another tiny example of Konami's design choices is with stuff like how they randomly changed the replay camera angle so you can't move it around properly, or why they decided that it was a good idea to change broadcast cam so that you have camera angle changes when at the near touchline, rendering it unplayable.

Stuff like that is what makes me cautious about Konami.
 
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Lami said:
Isn't it silly though judging a completely new engine when we've seen nothing of it?

The let down after let down was also on that old engine which had limitations. Maybe the much improved GKs we wanted didn't see the light because of these limitations as well.

I'm also skeptical regarding this though. A new engine doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It's the engine (tools provided) plus the devs (plus time and money obviously). Although the guys behind PS3/360 versions weren't very successful, they did have a successful stint on the PS2 with the old engine, which means they can produce. They also admitted mistakes plus old engine limitations and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

If all these guys had was a crappy past with no success whatsoever then I'd be very pessimistic. Now, if they somehow manage to fail with this one, then they need to be replaced imo. But I'll wait and like I said they're having the benefit of the doubt from me.
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Based on the last 5 years and some of the silly decisions Konami has made, I think a lot of people are skeptical rather than already judging and completely writing off PES 2014. We all hope it will be a great game and having a new engine is a good start. However, when I think of PES 2008-2013, I'm reminded of how important the used game market is and how nice it is to be able to sell somethings/games to someone else when you don't like them.
 
Ipswich69 said:
Based on the last 5 years and some of the silly decisions Konami has made, I think a lot of people are skeptical rather than already judging and completely writing off PES 2014. We all hope it will be a great game and having a new engine is a good start.
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Exactly. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

People are only voicing their well founded fears that it could be another let down.

Of course everyone wants it to be brilliant, why wouldn't we? The negativity you are reading here has been cultivated by Konami's incompetence over the last few years. You can only let down your fans so many times before they stop becoming fans and that is what is happening to PES right now. Whatever way you want to dress it up with talk of engine limitations etc. the fact remains the decline of PES is the fault of Konami and Konami alone. They are responsible for producing a game worthy of the PES name and in many people's eyes they have failed in that task throughout this entire generation of tech.

People having a go at other posters for being sceptical about PES 2014 are being pretty unfair IMO because there are many, many totally valid reasons for that scepticism.
 
The engine was one of the problems, the core one. It will be solved this year. But it wasn't the only one.

Is the so-so UI/UX an old engine problem?
Is the horible quality of chants (and FX sound) an old engine problem?
Is the cold color palette an old engine problem?
Are the japanese-like commentary scripts an old engine problem?
Are the bad PR statements (This year we've had a lot of) an old engine problem?
Is Jon Murphy dissapearance between October and March an old engine problem? :P

PES 2014 has to be an all new game, not only because the new engine, but the attitude Konami should have towards their customer base.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
I see where you're coming from, a new engine is the most promising start we could have right now for the series but behind it all are Konami and their downright bizarre design choices. We all know that for every one good idea they'll remove another two. I'm guessing sometimes this is down to technical reasons, other times not.

It can be the best engine in the world but if Konami cut corners then it'll be for nothing. Like how they had sound designers thinking it's a top idea to cram ten people into a cupboard and sing Man Utd songs that Man Utd don't even sing, well then it'll have it's work cut out.

Which reminds me, another tiny example of Konami's design choices is with stuff like how they randomly changed the replay camera angle so you can't move it around properly, or why they decided that it was a good idea to change broadcast cam so that you have camera angle changes when at the near touchline, rendering it unplayable.

Stuff like that is what makes me cautious about Konami.
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Finally, i found someone that realize of these stupid thinks that konami did over the last years.

- replay camera (what happend with the way we use to see the replays using our stick in the past?)
- The default camera, is an stupid implemention since pes 2011. It has an awfull angle of view. thus the agnle change if you are near touchline. 100% agree on this, they should put a camera like they used in ps2, or something similar to fifa.
- The names over the player's head. What where they thinking about when they did this? seriously, could you please put back the block with the name of the player you are controlling?
- Free kikcs system, why have they changed the system of the We series during ps2? it was just perfect, the way / animations the players kick the ball, and the posibility to change the direction of the ball in the air.
- Random stadium selection, this is basic, when you put rematch, you want a rematch, but in a different stadium, with different conditions of weather, etc. it used to be possible.

I have little hope on konami these days, hopeuffly with this new engine, they could bring the game again to the top of the mountain.

They need to understand that they dont have to redone everything, they just need to take all the good things from the past, add more animations, and add grapichs to that, and they will be again on the road.

Please konami, we have been without a good game of football for probably the last 6 years.
 
gonriver said:
Finally, i found someone that realize of these stupid thinks that konami did over the last years.

- replay camera (what happend with the way we use to see the replays using our stick in the past?)
- The default camera, is an stupid implemention since pes 2011. It has an awfull angle of view. thus the agnle change if you are near touchline. 100% agree on this, they should put a camera like they used in ps2, or something similar to fifa.
- The names over the player's head. What where they thinking about when they did this? seriously, could you please put back the block with the name of the player you are controlling?
- Free kikcs system, why have they changed the system of the We series during ps2? it was just perfect, the way / animations the players kick the ball, and the posibility to change the direction of the ball in the air.
- Random stadium selection, this is basic, when you put rematch, you want a rematch, but in a different stadium, with different conditions of weather, etc. it used to be possible.

I have little hope on konami these days, hopeuffly with this new engine, they could bring the game again to the top of the mountain.

They need to understand that they dont have to redone everything, they just need to take all the good things from the past, add more animations, and add grapichs to that, and they will be again on the road.

Please konami, we have been without a good game of football for probably the last 6 years.
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You miss a little big detail: Coin toss before Kick Off :SMUG:
 
well , i've been playing pes since 1998 i never loved fifa stuff , now i changed to fifa 13 because konami failed to present a football game every year they remove features now in pes 13 almost every feature we loved has been removed , now they talk about pes 14 and a new engine we can only hope that konami wont fail us this time
 
NikoLiberty4 said:
The engine was one of the problems, the core one. It will be solved this year. But it wasn't the only one.

Is the so-so UI/UX an old engine problem?
Is the horible quality of chants (and FX sound) an old engine problem?
Is the cold color palette an old engine problem?
Are the japanese-like commentary scripts an old engine problem?
Are the bad PR statements (This year we've had a lot of) an old engine problem?
Is Jon Murphy dissapearance between October and March an old engine problem? :P

PES 2014 has to be an all new game, not only because the new engine, but the attitude Konami should have towards their customer base.
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aren't all the issues you mentioned based on everything built on a limited game engine.

The current PES is built on this and can only support so much.
The physics, AI, commentary, graphics etc etc is built on a foundation that is limited.

With the new engine the foundation is laid to add a physics engine, graphics, commentary, more slots for editing and so forth.

As for PR what would you want Konami to say? Guys skip PES2013 it`s built on the old engine and we cannot add to the game. Wait for PES2014 when we can add all the things you want.

I am enthusiastic about PES2014 and what Konami have put forward thus far. It`s not going to be perfect but the foundation will be laid for a much improved game.

Scepticism is expected given the recent form but allot of people still play and enjoy PES for what it is.
 
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I'm actually reasonably confident that Konami can deliver a decent football game at the first attempt with this new engine. It's the so called simple things that worry me and that's often where Konami have exhibited the most ineptitude.

I guess I'm still bitter about the removal of league mode but that is a prime example of how Konami can spoil an otherwise good football game.
 
zeemeister said:
aren't all the issues you mentioned based on everything built on a limited game engine.

The current PES is built on this and can only support so much.
The physics, AI, commentary, graphics etc etc is built on a foundation that is limited.
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Come on man, don't be naive! :D

You do know what is a game engine and what it does, right? All of the points from the post you quoted have absolutely NOTHING to do with the limitations of the engine.

If you want, I could explain further why it's like that. :)
 
zeemeister said:
aren't all the issues you mentioned based on everything built on a limited game engine.
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The engine has nothing to do with the issues I posted. Regarding aesthetic issues, the PC version is a valid example of what you can do to improve the game without involving the engine.

Only with a turf pack like Dr. Hany one, and the skies from Oliver14, the game looks more vivid and beautiful. On 720p and the same resolution textures, just as current-gen systems. Add any chantpack, and you have a much better experience. i.e. Playing any game with Boca Juniors in La Bombonera with actual chants is just not possible with vanilla game.

Why Konami can't do the for the PS3 or the XBOX 360?

There are horrendous designed kits this year, like Man Utd, look at the color, it's light red, which doesn't resemble at all the real one.

And, as Suuupertalk said a few hours ago, some chants look like they're made inside Konami HQ, not recorded inside stadiums. (PES 2013's Liga BBVA ones are the exception.) PD: Also, anyone remember the horrible soundtrack from PES 2008-2009, with no actual singers or groups involved?

If Konami can fix those kind of issues, prepare a good online experience, and the gameplay continues the trend started with 2013, PES 2014 will be an excellent title.
 
NikoLiberty4 said:
The engine has nothing to do with the issues I posted. Regarding aesthetic issues, the PC version is a valid example of what you can do to improve the game without involving the engine.

Only with a turf pack like Dr. Hany one, and the skies from Oliver14, the game looks more vivid and beautiful. On 720p and the same resolution textures, just as current-gen systems. Add any chantpack, and you have a much better experience. i.e. Playing any game with Boca Juniors in La Bombonera with actual chants is just not possible with vanilla game.

Why Konami can't do the for the PS3 or the XBOX 360?

There are horrendous designed kits this year, like Man Utd, look at the color, it's light red, which doesn't resemble at all the real one.

And, as Suuupertalk said a few hours ago, some chants look like they're made inside Konami HQ, not recorded inside stadiums. (PES 2013's Liga BBVA ones are the exception.) PD: Also, anyone remember the horrible soundtrack from PES 2008-2009, with no actual singers or groups involved?

If Konami can fix those kind of issues, prepare a good online experience, and the gameplay continues the trend started with 2013, PES 2014 will be an excellent title.
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Can the PS3/360 handle that though? Maybe they'll stutter a lot.
 
i'm pretty sure this year we will have much better turfs and stadiums.
They are going to change graphics engine, after all
besides in edge article they talked about a much more dynamic crowd, maybe they are going to improve chants too...
 
Lami said:
Can the PS3/360 handle that though? Maybe they'll stutter a lot.
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I doubt it - the textures would be the same resolution and the sounds would replace the original ones. Konami's SFX and pitch textures are mostly pathetic. It takes modders next to no time to improve stuff tenfold, there's no excuse.
 
spektarm said:
Come on man, don't be naive! :D

You do know what is a game engine and what it does, right? All of the points from the post you quoted have absolutely NOTHING to do with the limitations of the engine.

If you want, I could explain further why it's like that. :)
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By all means. I am a textile technologist specialising in lingerie. I know more than is healthy about the missus knickers and bra

What i know about game engines is based on logic and reading on the interwebz.

The way i understand game engines is like a train that has the capacity to pull a load. So a cart is made up of AI programing, A cart is for aesthetics, a cart for physics and a few more carts making up the game.

The train could only pull the weight it was built for so adding to the physics cart would slow the train ( engine ) to a stutter or a grinding halt or you have to empty one of the other carts to get the train to perform to its capacity by balancing the load.

Ok I' ll leave it at that for fear of making a bigger arse of myself.
NikoLiberty4 said:
The engine has nothing to do with the issues I posted. Regarding aesthetic issues, the PC version is a valid example of what you can do to improve the game without involving the engine.

Only with a turf pack like Dr. Hany one, and the skies from Oliver14, the game looks more vivid and beautiful. On 720p and the same resolution textures, just as current-gen systems. Add any chantpack, and you have a much better experience. i.e. Playing any game with Boca Juniors in La Bombonera with actual chants is just not possible with vanilla game.

Why Konami can't do the for the PS3 or the XBOX 360?

There are horrendous designed kits this year, like Man Utd, look at the color, it's light red, which doesn't resemble at all the real one.

And, as Suuupertalk said a few hours ago, some chants look like they're made inside Konami HQ, not recorded inside stadiums. (PES 2013's Liga BBVA ones are the exception.) PD: Also, anyone remember the horrible soundtrack from PES 2008-2009, with no actual singers or groups involved?

If Konami can fix those kind of issues, prepare a good online experience, and the gameplay continues the trend started with 2013, PES 2014 will be an excellent title.
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And consoles which are konamis lead platforms are the same as PCs?
You cant compare PCs with consoles.

The sounds are made by one guy with pots, pans, pieces of wood and other neat devices at konami HQ. Theres a youtube vid of it I shit you not

PES2013 is a mess of a game on the pitch i can only play people I know online else i can play 4 games against the com or randoms online without wanting to throw my DS3 through my tv. I would worry if konami continued the trend.
 
fernadez said:
Was just cleaning up my hard drive and found a copy of the 2013 demo with all the teams unlocked installed, just played the full version then the demo. The difference between the two is actually quite ridiculous. From the pace of the game to the way the computer attacks, hopefully whoever is in charge of authorising these changes has been sacked....on the plus side though I have a football game to play, if you anyone still has it installed and is missing a good footy game, try loading it up.
Old engine new engine, they have the capabilities to make a good football game, it's more about who they decide to make the game for that worries me, because based on the last few years and the difference between demos and full games, this is a issue that's equally serious, it's like they have the right vision and then change thier minds at the last minute, whoever they're listening to, they need to stop.
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Exactly mate. My thoughts since 2011 demo. From bliss to piss.
 
TO KONAMI:
Don't go overboard with is scripting. They're already talking about things like home and away crowds influencing players. This could be great if it has a subtle effect on their passing or shooting. If the player is in a perfect body shape and under no pressure, the crowd shouldn't make him miss a simple 2 metre pass or an empty net tap-in.

The same with form - a player's form should drop off or pick up based on a series of good or bad games, combined with their mentality stats. They can't go from scoring a hat trick one week to a bad form arrow the next week. Maybe it's a rolling 3 game average rating or something?

The ratings also need to be looked at - on FIFA, a great game gets you 9.8. On PES, you can score a hat trick and provide 2 assists and you'll get 7.0 lol.

FIFA 2010 World Cup implemented something with the home and away crowds during qualifying I think? Definitely in certain games, the opposition ramped up the pressure and the crowd got involved.

From this engine, I would like to see a lot more "Freedom" as promised in PES 2011. Freedom of where to play the ball and how to play the ball without the AI picking the outcome for me or the animation. My skill in controlling the passing and shooting and THEN the player stats/form/mentality/body posture etc should be taken into consideration.

I don't want to see every player be amazing under the control of an expert player, but at the same time I don't want to feel like the AI is pre-determining the outcome.

So I don't mind certain stats being affected by scripting (IF the logic makes sense for that scenario) but don't script the outcome. Let the ball be free and let the shooting provide naturally unpredictable outcomes.

That's probably my biggest gripe about current gen PES - user input is too often ignored or is too inconsistent.
 
zeemeister said:
No sorry you talking out your bum. PCs are infinitely superior to Consoles in all aspects.

Porting from PC to Console isnt a like for like exercise there are limitations on consoles.
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Lol Zee, I think what he's saying is that it's already been done. Unless your being sarcastic :P

And where's this PS3 patch? I'd like to try it myself... ;)
 
@zeemeister , I understand you completely, mate! There must be a reason for the failure of Konami all these years. Engine is the most convenient target to attack this is the best target because the problem is easily corrected, just change it. Trouble is assuming that the problem is outside engine, if the problem is in the team, then it is bad, then the future looks quite scary and uncertain. Right !? Should be engine, all of us pray this to be the reason, Konami what that.

Many people believe so strongly that there is a problem ,in the engine, they refuse to accept that much of a problems in PES did not come from him. But again, I understand each of you, understand each argument, and you are right in some or other way.
The new engine most positive thing that happens to us since 2007th, it is normal to be optimistic, but still it is normal to have people who are on the opposite , because both sides have strong reasons for that .
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
TO KONAMI:
Don't go overboard with is scripting. They're already talking about things like home and away crowds influencing players. This could be great if it has a subtle effect on their passing or shooting. If the player is in a perfect body shape and under no pressure, the crowd shouldn't make him miss a simple 2 metre pass or an empty net tap-in.

The same with form - a player's form should drop off or pick up based on a series of good or bad games, combined with their mentality stats. They can't go from scoring a hat trick one week to a bad form arrow the next week. Maybe it's a rolling 3 game average rating or something?

The ratings also need to be looked at - on FIFA, a great game gets you 9.8. On PES, you can score a hat trick and provide 2 assists and you'll get 7.0 lol.

FIFA 2010 World Cup implemented something with the home and away crowds during qualifying I think? Definitely in certain games, the opposition ramped up the pressure and the crowd got involved.

From this engine, I would like to see a lot more "Freedom" as promised in PES 2011. Freedom of where to play the ball and how to play the ball without the AI picking the outcome for me or the animation. My skill in controlling the passing and shooting and THEN the player stats/form/mentality/body posture etc should be taken into consideration.

I don't want to see every player be amazing under the control of an expert player, but at the same time I don't want to feel like the AI is pre-determining the outcome.

So I don't mind certain stats being affected by scripting (IF the logic makes sense for that scenario) but don't script the outcome. Let the ball be free and let the shooting provide naturally unpredictable outcomes.

That's probably my biggest gripe about current gen PES - user input is too often ignored or is too inconsistent.
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Good post, this is what worries me, when outside influences effect your players. If done correctly then it should have marginal effects and could effect some players if they have weak mental attributes (Just an example). It shouldn't be just because you are playing away from home all of your players stats decrease by 5 or something like that.

The same with the form arrows, it has always been a big problem for me, it seems to have no baring on actual performances, its just random (It seams to me).

Things like these are things that need concentration and need to be implemented properly.

I hope they don't say all of this and then do a Fifa and say, 'because we are doing the whole new engine we didn't have time/resources to do A,B,C' because that is a cop out.

There is a lot to consider, especially now they have the new engine, it will bring out more problems to solve and may create an imbalance somewhere.

For example, if the ball is so free and the physics are implemented properly, then it could make defending infinitely harder and favour heavily attacking teams.

It's just an example and of course they may sort it out perfectly, but to just think that a new engine will make everything great will just lead you to being disappointed in some aspects.
 
Lami said:
Lol Zee, I think what he's saying is that it's already been done. Unless your being sarcastic :P

And where's this PS3 patch? I'd like to try it myself... ;)
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LOL yeah was more in respect of the previous comment.

Yes patches are the same but the quality of each platform is different. You can't compare skyrim on the PC on max settings on a gaming rig to Skyrim on the PS3.

Look at how long it took Bethesda to get the PS3 patch out.

I am tired of sounding like a defender of the konami clan now but the point I am making or trying to make is that the engine was Konamis biggest hindrnace to progress. I do not know if it was the only probelm but it seemed to be the biggest limiter.

Think of what happened on the PS2 and PES5 I think it was. In certain stadia the crowd would cause the game to lag-what did Koanmi do? They removed the crowds so that there is less happening on the screen. That is an indication of a limited engine. Who is to say that it was this that also led to the infamous Konami Blackhole. Also the old engine seemed to be more resource heavy.

According to the EDGE article this new engine is going to allow for cross platform development so instead of working in stages whereby the PS3 is worked on then the Xbox then PSP then Android etc. The devs can concentrate on one platform that can easily be converted. Meaning less time for this and the resources can be better utilised.
 
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