PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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I'm thinking that the main reason why things went down the wrong way from PES 6 to PES 2008 (PS3/XBOX 360/PC) was the fact that they focused on the wrong aspects. The main focus were graphics. So they started off with the wrong foot. Yeah they gave us some great faces at that time, but they thought they had everything under control and that fans would be pleased with anything that came from Konami.

In time, they started realizing "Hey, we better do something about gameplay and leave graphics aside for a while, because FIFA is kicking our asses off the map" and that lead to a progressive improvement from PES 2009 to PES 2013 which is, IMHO, a nice game.

If PES 2008 had been PES 2013, I'm sure PES 2013 would have gotten to be the best football game ever. With thousand of great (and smooth) animations, amazing gameplay and great graphics.

Hopefully they learnt from their mistakes and now their main aim will be gameplay over graphics.
 
F D B said:
I'm thinking that the main reason why things went down the wrong way from PES 6 to PES 2008 (PS3/XBOX 360/PC) was the fact that they focused on the wrong aspects. The main focus were graphics. So they started off with the wrong foot. Yeah they gave us some great faces at that time, but they thought they had everything under control and that fans would be pleased with anything that came from Konami.

In time, they started realizing "Hey, we better do something about gameplay and leave graphics aside for a while, because FIFA is kicking our asses off the map" and that lead to a progressive improvement from PES 2009 to PES 2013 which is, IMHO, a nice game.

If PES 2008 had been PES 2013, I'm sure PES 2013 would have gotten to be the best football game ever. With thousand of great (and smooth) animations, amazing gameplay and great graphics.

Hopefully they learnt from their mistakes and now their main aim will be gameplay over graphics.
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It's not just Pes Team that went wrong. It's the entire Japanese videogame industry (bar few exceptions) that never managed to adapt to the new development cycle.
Now, there is much more confidence, since Ps4 is easier to develop for and Konami seems to have taken the right steps to be prepared for next gen launch.
 
Ameppe said:
It's not just Pes Team that went wrong. It's the entire Japanese videogame industry (bar few exceptions) that never managed to adapt to the new development cycle.
Now, there is much more confidence, since Ps4 is easier to develop for and Konami seems to have taken the right steps to be prepared for next gen launch.
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I think you're right. It seems a lot of the Japanese game developers have been sucking hind tit for several years now. I noticed in the recent Edge article about the new PES engine there's a small picture of the Konami PES studio that looks old, bland and uninspired -- essentially a miserable place to work for a creative mind that crafts video games for a living. Compare that studio to likes of the Sony Santa Monica studio, Naughty Gods studio and EAs studios for example and you get an idea of how far behind the innovative curve Konami have been.
 
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I have no clue if the king will be back with new engine.
A lot of hopes will be put into it worldwide.
I don't want to judge, before I ever played the new version by myself.
People can write a lot, but this will never be as good as own experience.

Everything sounds nice but the past years showed us not too be too optimiistic.
So i will be a little bit sceptical and wait for the first demo etc.

The only thing that concerns me: The same engine will be used for current and next gen.
As we learned the same engine on old gen was great while on current gen it was really a joke. I hope that new engine will be good on btoh gens... ;)
 
Ipswich69 said:
I think you're right. It seems a lot of the Japanese game developers have been sucking hind tit for several years now. I noticed in the recent Edge article about the new PES engine there's a small picture of the Konami PES studio that looks old, bland and uninspired -- essentially a miserable place to work for a creative mind that crafts video games for a living. Compare that studio to likes of the Sony Santa Monica studio, Naughty Gods studio and EAs studios for example and you get an idea of how far behind the innovative curve Konami have been.
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Yeah :D and they still using Windows XP or 98 .You are right!

@Lami , you say.. " we have new engine.. new engine. " Yeah , but looking back to all this 6 years,the main , the big problems are was not because the engine, was because bad decisions , poor and lazy performance. F*ck the animations, f*ck the plastic unrealistic graphic, in the games was so much stupidness and wrongs that any engines can not excuse them . Therefore, even with a new engine it's hard to believe that they would do all right this time.
 
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AntrAcsA said:
Yeah :D and they still using Windows XP or 98 .You are right!

@Lami , you say.. " we have new engine.. new engine. " Yeah , but looking back to all this 6 years,the main , the big problems are was not because the engine, was because bad decisions , poor and lazy performance. F*ck the animations, f*ck the plastic unrealistic graphic, in the games was so much stupidness and wrongs that any engines can not excuse them . Therefore, even with a new engine it's hard to believe that they would do all right this time.
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Says the guy who has done nothing but moan about the engine pretty much exclusively all that time.

You don't know what restraints the engine has had on development. I'll give the omission of league mode as a stupid decision but really, everything else could well have been victim of the technology being used. If it hasn't been, then I don't think you would be the one to know that this was the case.
 
curdstar said:
Says the guy who has done nothing but moan about the engine pretty much exclusively all that time.
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Dude, you're confusing me with someone else ... I've always maintained that engine is not guilty , the people behind it are ...

curdstar said:
You don't know what restraints the engine has had on development. I'll give the omission of league mode as a stupid decision but really, everything else could well have been victim of the technology being used. If it hasn't been, then I don't think you would be the one to know that this was the case.
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You can not be so stupid to believe that or you have short memory.. Unbelievable!
 
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AntrAcsA said:
Yeah :D and they still using Windows XP or 98 .You are right!

@Lami , you say.. " we have new engine.. new engine. " Yeah , but looking back to all this 6 years,the main , the big problems are was not because the engine, was because bad decisions , poor and lazy performance. F*ck the animations, f*ck the plastic unrealistic graphic, in the games was so much stupidness and wrongs that any engines can not excuse them . Therefore, even with a new engine it's hard to believe that they would do all right this time.
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But it was the engine. If you read the Edge magazine, they admitted to it. They also admit they've been doing things wrong for quite a while but it was their culture hat held them back. You have to understand that there failure is not an option. It's a disgrace. An embarrassment. They won't go out saying we were wrong. But thankfully they realized that cannot continue for too long and came out. I'm glad this has been realized. To me this is great. Overcoming cultural issues isn't easy at all.

So after admitting their mistakes, implementing a youthful team (from what I gathered), implementing a new engine (a very good one from everything we've seen so far), positive and futuristic attitude, they have the benefit of the doubt for me. I cannot judge them on past experiences now. It's all new. All I can do at this point is judge all this when it's out. There's absolutely nothing I can judge at this point. If they were releasing this using old engine, then yes i would have different expectations.
 
AntrAcsA said:
You can not be so stupid to believe that or you have short memory.. Unbelievable!
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Not that it really matters. I am talking to someone who apparently wants even more change before we have seen what the current developers who do have their largely own new technology in place have to offer with it. You have decided it is the developers who are the problem before even seeing or playing what they can do with simply better tools at their disposal. There is of course no way of guaranteeing that with better tools a great game will be the end result,but they deserve a shot at trying to do just that in my opinion.
 
It's far too early to judge one way or the other and there is no reason for moaning or rejoicing at the moment. The moment of truth will be when we play the demo for ourselves.

Anything else is just hear-say and PR-marketing.

The new technology promised like the new physics and the new graphics sound promising but until we see and feel for ourselves how it all translates into the game noone can really say if it will work out and really help to elevate the game.

So imho it's best to just chill out till October/November.
 
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F D B said:
I'm thinking that the main reason why things went down the wrong way from PES 6 to PES 2008 (PS3/XBOX 360/PC) was the fact that they focused on the wrong aspects. The main focus were graphics. So they started off with the wrong foot. Yeah they gave us some great faces at that time, but they thought they had everything under control and that fans would be pleased with anything that came from Konami.

In time, they started realizing "Hey, we better do something about gameplay and leave graphics aside for a while, because FIFA is kicking our asses off the map" and that lead to a progressive improvement from PES 2009 to PES 2013 which is, IMHO, a nice game.

If PES 2008 had been PES 2013, I'm sure PES 2013 would have gotten to be the best football game ever. With thousand of great (and smooth) animations, amazing gameplay and great graphics.

Hopefully they learnt from their mistakes and now their main aim will be gameplay over graphics.
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This happens to be true.
Lately they are focused on gameplay mechanics rather than pure and simple football&tactics, area in which they made little efford, which is a real shame. Everyone will agree the game is completely retarded from a tactical perspective.
 
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Agree with Jamezinho , I enjoyed PES 2013 but that's because my love for football games has slowly withered away, im sure me from 5 or 6 years ago would be ranting about how crap it is but i've become a casual.

hopefully with the new engine PES can reignite love for them. :))
 
I am so happy Konami are waking up or already attending to the things that they know is holding them back. One of the things seabass always bemoaned was the lack of interaction within Japanese companies.

The mere fact that they are using hideos Fox engine or a version of it shows that they are changing the culture which is infinitely harder than trying to just learn a new software.

Whats even more surprising is that the wheels were put into motion a long time ago. The sky blue team has been in operation fora few years now and i think has been taking up more and more resources. Hence the stagnation of the series most notably after PES2011 Konami could not have just pulled the plug on PES and started on a new engine. They needed to stay on the map or lose the fans completely.

What they are doing now is a stroke of genius. The ease of cross platform development is going to save them from having to spread the dev team trying to cover every PES format out there.

Also the new engine will be backwards compatible and this is important for konami. Brazil or South America are their biggest fan base. They cant exclusively look at the next gen and negate the PS3 or Xbox 360 as the transition to the new consoles will not be immediate due to the current state of the world economy and konami will now have a tool that will allow innovation without hurting their biggest customer base
 
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zeemeister said:
I am so happy Konami are waking up or already attending to the things that they know is holding them back. One of the things seabass always bemoaned was the lack of interaction within Japanese companies.

The mere fact that they are using hideos Fox engine or a version of it shows that they are changing the culture which is infinitely harder than trying to just learn a new software.

Whats even more surprising is that the wheels were put into motion a long time ago. The sky blue team has been in operation fora few years now and i think has been taking up more and more resources. Hence the stagnation of the series most notably after PES2011 Konami could not have just pulled the plug on PES and started on a new engine. They needed to stay on the map or lose the fans completely.

What they are doing now is a stroke of genius. The ease of cross platform development is going to save them from having to spread the dev team trying to cover every PES format out there.

Also the new engine will be backwards compatible and this is important for konami. Brazil or South America are their biggest fan base. They cant exclusively look at the next gen and negate the PS3 or Xbox 360 as the transition to the new consoles will not be immediate due to the current state of the world economy and konami will now have a tool that will allow innovation without hurting their biggest customer base
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These in bold are just assumptions. The only certain thing is they created a sub-team two years ago that had the task to try and create a new engine for Pes. That's what Masuda said in Edge article.

Everything in theory seems good enough, but how will this apply to reality?

They could also find themselves stuck with an engine too late for current gen and too simple for next gen...
thus making the same mistake as last gen.

Let's just wait, time will tell.
 
1+1 = 2 and a glass is sometimes half filled rather than half empty ;)

I put "I THINK" in bold we are not privvy to Konamis businees buut to think they woke up last week and decided to build a new engine is just foolish.
 
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The thing is the edge magazine article only uncovers what is at work, and what is possible with the new engine. The minimum we could hope for is a new physics based engine as the base of the gameplay. I would not be surprised if that zone tactics system or dynamic crowds affecting players system and whatever they have mentioned did not appear for pes 2014.

Its only march and i've already jumped aboard the hype train. Seeing we wont see any gameplay footage or tech demos for at least 2 months, its gonna be a long wait to release. Anyone got a working phone booth? My de lorean is not working.
 
AIR92 said:
The thing is the edge magazine article only uncovers what is at work, and what is possible with the new engine. The minimum we could hope for is a new physics based engine as the base of the gameplay. I would not be surprised if that zone tactics system or dynamic crowds affecting players system and whatever they have mentioned did not appear for pes 2014.

Its only march and i've already jumped aboard the hype train. Seeing we wont see any gameplay footage or tech demos for at least 2 months, its gonna be a long wait to release. Anyone got a working phone booth? My de lorean is not working.
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They mention the three things on the same exact level, what leads you to assume that one part of it will be there and the other won't?

Some people seem to be confusing the term "new engine" with a new graphics engine" or a "new physics engine" (maybe because they never really knew what an "engine" is.

It's a completely new game engine that may include stuff from graphics, rendering effects, complex physics and animation systems, gameplay mechanics, user interface systems and even network implementation. It requires you to completely rebuild your game based on it and using its resources. You can't re-use chunks of code from the previous engine because the framework is completely different.

The real question is, how much of this Fox Engine already covers and how much of it is being developed by the PES Team (and if they do it properly or not).
 
I don't understand this talk about it's dishonourable if they fail in their culture rubbish, would you not call the last five years failure? It's not the Japanese army in World war 2.

They got away with it for years by tweaking here and there and we all still bought it. They have to change the engine with PS4 around the corner. The idea for Pes 2014 IMO is to keep us roped in for next year.

I think we will get new graphics collision system and a few other teasers for the transition to PS4 but the best will be kept for later games.

Hopefully I'm wrong, Pes 2013 had great potential, the first demo was brilliant and different to pes 2012 but then they slipped back to win over Fifa fans and ex pes fans and it hasn't worked.

I think the next two games will be the last couple of rolls of the dice.
 
Amazing how some people are already saying its going to be the same old shit.......HELLO, wake up, new engine!! Something we've been waiting for for a long time. I'm surprised they managed to get so much out of that old engine to be honest.
 
Simcut said:
Amazing how some people are already saying its going to be the same old shit.......HELLO, wake up, new engine!! Something we've been waiting for for a long time. I'm surprised they managed to get so much out of that old engine to be honest.
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So naive, lol. Same old story. Its a modified version of a new engine, thou i really hope you right.
 
azur said:
So naive, lol. Same old story. Its a modified version of a new engine, thou i really hope you right.
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It's not a "same old story". We never had a new engine before. Now we do. We don't know how this new one operates so how can we judge anything yet?
 
azur said:
So naive, lol. Same old story. Its a modified version of a new engine, thou i really hope you right.
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Wrong! Obviously you didn't understand a thing from the article in the EDGE magazine. PES is having a NEW and by NEW you have to understand, that it is completely and absolutely NEW! Even Kojima himself stated in the magazine, that the developers had some problems at first with the NEW engine, but now they are doing well.
 
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